How did the test ride go? ?c?

Obviously for the Nero / Starbucks / Costa set! :innocent:

I think the Companero is overkill for Bolton and Manchester!

I found it here: http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...tart=50#319137



Casper

I finally got the ride the CCM GP450 a few days ago. To cut to the chase right away, I won't be ordering one, primarily because the delivery queue is now out to July and I would be without a bike for April-May-June, as my current UK bike (XT660Z Tenere) is being shipped to Spain next week to join the 690 Enduro. I will probably be taking up another 690 Enduro that has my name on it at the KTM Centre in Hemel—there are some advantages having the same bike in two places.

I rode my Tenere to and from the test ride site, and boy did the Tenere feel heavy and lardy on the way home!

The CCM gearing seemed quite low but without a rev counter I didn't have much idea what the engine was up to. Riding with ear plugs probably didn't help here. At one point I got up to an indicated 73mph but the engine didn't feel particularly stressed. A wider set of gear ratios (or a six-speed box) would make more relaxed cruising. The power band seemed quite wide and without an obvious stronger section, so acceleration was steady. Performance wise the bike was never going to be a patch on my 690 Enduro, but I reckon it would show a clean set of heels to the Tenere.

The bike seemed both lighter and smaller than my 690 Enduro. There's effectively four seat heights, the bike is available in a substantially lowered version with standard seat or high (much thicker) seat. Then the standard height bike is available with the two seats. I booked the test ride on the second highest option—standard height bike, standard seat—but in fact the high seat was fine for me (30-in inseam) and was about the same as the Tenere and maybe slightly lower than the 2012-onwards 690 Enduro. The wide range of seat heights make it an ideal choice for a male/female couple looking to standardise on the same bike for a long trip. See below for more on seat heights.

Wind protection from the standard non-adjustable screen was fine, though if I was buying I reckon I'd go for adjustable screen. The was some vibration at times through the bars but only because I was looking for it. The mirrors were perfectly clear. No vibration through the footpegs. Dashboard is basic and there's a big green light that I'm not sure what it does, but it could be annoying at night time.

Despite comments elsewhere on the flip-up 'suicide side stand', the stands on most of the test bikes were normal, apart from one that needed tightening up.

I did just 500m or so on short section of muddy lane. It was difficult to assess the bike given the non-knobbly tyres and no brush guards (bushes kept interfering). I would have liked to have seen what the bike would do riding fully laden—panniers, roll bag, full fuel—on steep and rocky sections. I would also have liked to see how the bike handles when you start to use the long travel suspension on big bumps and dips, but we weren't about to do that bumbling along a very short muddy lane with mud-clogged tyres.

The pannier rails will take a variety of hard pannier solutions, Metal Mule, Zega, etc. Given the amount of tools and gear you need on a long tour I thought the soft luggage wasn't large enough, especially the top bag. There didn't seem much space on the CCM for a tank bag (I use the Enduristan Sandstormone on the 690 Enduro.)

There are no CCM dealers at the moment, all sales are via the factory, so servicing would be carried out either by returning to Bolton or by having a mechanic come to you. Clearly this needs to be sorted but until production starts the factory doesn't have the bikes to allocate to a dealer. Alice Flook (CCM Marketing Manager) reckons production will start at the end of March, with 20 bikes being produced each month. Doing the math implies there's 60 orders and deposits in the system. Alice says CCM has accepted quite a number of KTM 690 Enduros in part exchange and it's becoming a bit of a joke at the factory.

More on seat heights... Seat height is normally measured with no weight on the suspension which is why you tend to take a dirt bike off the stand first before getting on (otherwise it settles down and you can't get the sweep to get the stand up).

The other variable on the seat height is the curve that your legs need to take to reach the ground, if it's a wide seat it appears to be higher. And if you have a lot of flesh on your inner thighs (i.e. fat bastard) you won't reach down as easy as a skinner rider with the same inseam. I found my 'longer legs' to be one brilliant side effect when I lost over 30kg!

The reason I stressed the seat heights was I wondered when I saw the measurements whether even the standard height/standard seat (890mm) would be low enough for me (5'8"). In fact I could totally flat foot on the standard setup which is something I don't normally do on these types of bikes. I was quite happy on the higher seat (960mm).

I believe the difference between the standard and lowered CCM is about 100mm (4 inches) which is quite a drop. It's a comprehensive change involving a different rear linkage, shorter rear spring and shorter forks. But it's too low for riders of around 5'5", so maybe there's a possibility of a half-way measure involving just a different rear linkage?

Sorry this isn't a more comprehensive write-up but there's a limit to what you can write about a 30 minute ride, mainly on country B roads. If there had been the possibility of getting a bike delivered in May or June I might have spent more time evaluating it. If I was buying one I would want a rev counter fitted, plus adjustable screen, centre stand, and pannier rails.

Generally though I have a good feel about the bike and the company and hope they do well.

.

Does anyone know if anyone have run any of the bikes to full service interval ?

I am very interested in seeing how the wear is on the engines and the longevity.


Casper

These are still prototypes, some parts (seats, mudguard stays) are not finalised. So the bikes are not yet in production and no customer deliveries have been made.

CCM have obviously been doing long term testing of their own, but I'd guess you'll have to wait a year or two before a customer strips down an engine.

I rode a CCM 404 from the UK to South Africa during 2007/2008. I knew (know!) very little about bikes mechanically, but on paper it seemed like exactly what I was looking for. More details below if you want a nosey:

Moto-cross Africa: Bikes

I picked the bike up for £2k with about 500 miles on the clock. The bike worked fine for me, minor issues as you would expect from any bike on a 10,000+ mile trip through Africa, but nothing too major.

I haven't really followed CCM as a business (but Peter Henshaw's 'Rolling Thunder' book is worth looking up if you're interested).

However, I really like the fact that CCM have chosen this specialist niche and it would be great if they can gain some traction in the adventure/overlanding market, particularly in the UK. It must be difficult being a small manufacturer with limited resources. In one of the videos someone posted above, CCM's marketing manager commented that they observed that many adventure bikes were very large/heavy, so they've gone for the smaller/lighter market. Makes a lot of sense to me, but I appreciate some of that is personal preference. And personal preference is exactly why there will never be a 'perfect' adventure bike!

At £8k the 450 seems fairly pricey but that's fine; in a few years' time the second hand market should be flowing so that overlanders who can't/don't want to spend that sort of money will be able to pick one up.

In the meantime, if you budget is below £8k and you're interested in a CCM as an overlander, try a 404! Key points I would flag are:
i) the seats are narrow - not too much of an issue as long as you solve it (ie I used an Airhawk cushion but I'm sure you can modify/replace the seat); and
ii) I couldn't find a larger tank to fit the bike, so I went with 11.5 litre tank. Again, not too much of an issue as that range (200km) was fine 98% of the time. In my opinion people often go over-the-top with fuel/tanks; there is almost always somewhere/someone willing to sell you fuel. That said, I did stick a 5l Acerbis auxiliary tank on the front before I left for peace of mind.

Chris

The CCM 404 use's a DRZ400E engine, best of just getting a DRZ400 than a CCM 404 as more aftermarket parts for a DRZ :thumbup1:

I was interested in knowing if they have stress tested the engine to see if it keeps up with the service interval after they de-tuned it. They don't need a whole bike for that, just a test rig, a computer, and a huge fuel tank.

Adventure Bike Rider - UK - CCM review?
 

We get UK mags very late in the USA, but I just spied Adventure Bike Rider (UK) mag in Barnes & Noble yesterday. They have a review of the new CCM ... I just glanced at the mag .. no time to read it.

Anyone read it ...? Comments? ?c?

That issue has probably been out in UK for a month or more.

I'll get back there in a day or two and read the review. Will notify.

EDIT / UPDATE The mag was NOT Adventure Bike Rider .... it was BIKE, UK. The article is by Chippy Wood, staff photog. The review gives the bike a 10 for 10, 100% thumps up. Chippy is rare among UK moto journos as he's a long time dirt/enduro rider/competitor. A short but worthwhile read. I think Chippy owns a KTM for his own bike ... but gets to ride all kinds of off road bikes.

Wesley, the reason I posted is so that if someone is interested in taking a less expensive and/or more tested CCM than the 450, they know there are options. It wouldn't be 'wrong' if someone chose to use a CCM rather than a Suzuki.

Chris

I'm with you Mezo, what a crap road test, more like an Ad for the Manchester bike show. It would be nice to see how it feels off road and loaded down with luggage. It's a bit expensive though at £8k!

Honda NX400 Falcons "single cylinder"
 

NX400s work for us. Mine was manufactured in 2001 in Brazil, (50,000 + K) no problem sourcing any needed parts - if you ever need any. Rosa del desierto also rides and NX400 manufactured in 2009 in Brazil.

Designed for low octane fuel, and I reduced the size of the carb jet - rosa did not have to, for more power above 4,000 meters. Apparently, later model NX400 have fixed the altitude glitch.

We left Buenos Aires more than two months ago, now in Arequipa, Peru destined for Bogota and a flight to Panama and then a ride through Central America and Mexico to our ranch on Route 66 , Flagstaff, Arizona.

And, in a couple of months, we will ride back to Buenos Aires.

This is our second trans South America ride. see Puno to Arequipa thread
South American region for another foto of our NX400s....

Questions welcome

xfiltrate and rosa del desierto

The NX appears to be a great travel bike ... but surly can't be compared to the CCM regards off road ability? Do you have any close up pics of the bike with a full load?

I owned a legalized XR400R in 1999. I expect your NX400 is somewhat similar to the no longer produced XR400R. US off road version had better suspension than the Brazilian bike ... and the XR had more ground clearance as it was a true off road race bike, never designed to go ON road. More HP too. It was kick start only (a drag) but quite light weight for it's time.

But still ... as a travel bike ... I might pick your NX400 over the CCM ... and for more reasons than price. (CCM is around $12,000 usd). The NX400 Falcon is a bit overpriced, mostly due to import duties ... but I imagine still far less than a CCM?

What did you pay for your NX in USD?

I'm guessing your NX is designed to carry a pillion? So it's subframe is probably strong, good for luggage. It's a road based bike so no doubt the mildly tuned 400 motor will go 50K mi. before a rebuild and longer service intervals than CCM. All things good in a travel bike, IMHO :thumbup1:

Much as I'd love to ride the CCM off road, for most, RTW travel is not about riding a full on enduro race course every day. But the one day you DO have a tough route, the CCM is going to be the winner ... by a country mile. (the NX .. and others will have to hire a truck!)

But for roughly 80% of travel, a road bike that can handle "medium" off road may be the better (and less expensive) choice. If the CCM could go 50,000 miles before a total rebuild, then I'd give it mucho respect, but I doubt that's the case.

BMW had Kymco (Taiwan) build a full on, world class race motor, specifically to compete (and WIN) in World Enduro. They then paid world champion David Knight millions to WIN. He didn't. He quit the team and gave up millions as a result. He could not ride the bike. But others did, and did fairly well, but never close to a world championship.

Nonetheless, in a year or two BMW pulled out completely out of World Enduro ... a real shame. But that's part of them going in a Green direction. I respect BMW's decision but as an old motorhead was saddened by BMW's early surrender.

But make no mistake ... the CCM Kymco motor is a Race Motor. Not a mild RTW travel motor. Look up the history to confirm it's origins. bier

Better late than never fully loaded NX400 Falcon
 

Mollydog, thank you for your interesting post. We have been on the road from Buenos Aires for more than 2 months now and yesterday visited Chan Chan preInca palaces near Trujillo, Peru. For anyone riding this way there is a very heavy police/military presence in the province of Anca - just before Trujillo, Peru.

We were stopped six times and asked for papers the first three times then, I guess our presence was radioed ahead and we were just waved through. The operation was to arrest a gang of murder for hire boys who have been on a killing spree. Sometimes killing for as little as $5 US. Drug related?

Anyway the police - mostly swat , treated us with upmost respect and seemed a little shocked to discover we were foreign independent travelers - there are many foreign group tours.... but we have encountered only a few independent travelers with their own wheels....

Xfiltrate paid $5,000 dollars for his zero K NX400 in Buenos Aires many, many years ago, did I say many? I paid $7,000 dollars U S for mine in 2009.

The frame of the NX400 is very sturdy and supports our gear well. we carry the usual - tent, sleeping bags, hammocks, shirts, pants, etc... sandals, water filter, spare tubes, tools, spare containers for gas - tank is 15 liters and we can go 300 K depending on roads, altitude, speeds etc.... a book or two, my jewelry making tools and colored beads and a stout stick to beat off rabid dogs plus X carries his favorite machete and a collapsable stool.

We also carry video equipment, a digital still camera plus I pad and Laptop. You can see videos of this ride at our web site posted below...just clik on blog del viaje panamericano... We are posting about 1 video a week....
You might enjoy seeing the shaman we stayed with for 4 days near Cochabamba, Bolivia...
We only carry extra fuel if there are earthquakes, volcanos etc that might prevent gas delivery to gas stations -

rosa del desierto