I agree totally with that. I am VERY interested on that bike, especially as they took women feed back on and would make a low seat version for short riders. (I'm sick of super tall Heavy bikes!). It ticks all the boxes!

BUT... I would wait until someone has gone across Africa or to Magadan .... for my next trip I'll stick to a small 125 (as I cannot find a light low seat 300 to 650...)
So TED if they can give someone a bike to test the hard way I would put my order in soon after .. for now I will wait! Like many people here I guess!
Now if CCM is reading this thread .... Lending a bike to a single rider to test it for what it is supposed to do, would not be expensive from a marketing point of view and could bring lots of clients in... IF the bike perform!

They could do a lot worse.

I dont think manufacturers really get how much influence ride reports have on potential buyers. As Maria points out, many will hold off buying until they see the proof it can do the job.

If they were smart Ted, they should give lend you one and say ride it to Magadan.

That sort of marketing is dangerous. They would need to let Ted pick a bike at random and then be totally independent on his trip. If the bike breaks they've gone backwards because even if they get it fixed PDQ it will be reported as needing some film actors support truck to keep it moving. The traditionalists in marketing will also struggle as the press will hate the social media aspect (it is putting them out of business) and report it with negative spin. Send a journalist instead of Ted and no one believes them, we'd all think the glowing reports were connected to the expense account. There is also the risk that the bike is a pile of excrement and Ted will say so. What will other potential markets think? If CCM are still pushing the competition bike you can put in a box aspect will that market think overlander = weight?

You would need an MD like Bill Gates or Richard Branson to sign that one off, most will just hide in their office and go with an extra quarter page in MCN until some one buys one and does it themselves.

Andy

While I agree with you to a point, I still think there is no such thing as bad advertising - except maybe if the engine explodes or the frame snaps in half and is un-repairable. When the sub frames snapped on LWRounds BMW's or the ABS got fried when they tried to weld it, the net result was huge sales for BMW. Granted if Ewan or Charlie's bike had died it would not have looked so good, but It was still one of KTM's biggest ever marketing fau pas not to give them KTM 990 Adv's

I think the sales pitch learned from LWR/LWD was that you can buy a BMW and have an 'Adventure' - cobble the bike back together in the middle of Mongolia and make it through. That's why sales of GS's went crazy, it was the notion that you could have an adventure, not that you had to actually do it.

With no disrespect to Ted, he may not be the first choice for a company to promote their products - nor would any 'unknown', even people that we hold in high regard in the overlanding community. what CCM needs is someone fairly well known who wants to have an adventure, if the bike needs fixing it wont matter, as long as it makes its way to the end it stands a good chance of selling reasonably well. The format LWR/LWD did with several bikes, knowingly or unwittingly worked perfectly, the main stars of the show made it ok, no one really cared that Claudio's bike didn't make it without issues.

The only thing that will not help the CCM is its small(er) capacity and price. The GS sold well partially due to it being a big bike that people would use on highways/ motorways all day, loaded and can be used 2up, the CCM is a much more focused machine.

But at the end of the day, as we have all mentioned it needs someone to get on one and ride it RTW. This at least would reinforce sales within the Overlanding/HUBB/ADV Rider communities and would at least get some money info CCM to cover any improvements/modifications that need to be done to the production

I was just thinking about who to get to ride the CCM on a big trip, Richard Hammond and James May (Top Gear UK) sprang to mind, both have an interest in motorbikes.........Hammond is vertically challenged...perfect.

BMW, along with most manufacturers have being paying journalists to ride their bikes for years.. It's nothing new.

Moto Guzzi even gave their big adventure bike to 20 odd riders and let them do a Alaska to Ushuaia on them if I remember correctly.

They just made sure they had some support and everyone had a lot of fun.. That's what you remember when you get home.

How accurate ANY reports are are obviously questionable. Same goes with any magazine or bog paper rags like MCN.

The reviews are heavily weighed for many reasons. I have a friend who worked for MCN about ten years ago. He made it no secret that most of the reviews were made up or sugar coated by freebies and how many free drinks they got a the track days etc..




Then again, asking the average Joe is no good either. Most people praise their own bikes because THEY were the ones who chose it. To say "It's crap" would be a confession of a bad choice and a waste of money.

The ONLY way to see if a bike is any good is to try it yourself. That's why I've owned about 50 bikes. Buy, try, sell .... buy, try, sell ... And on and on

CCM are going the right thing by showcasing but they need to do a lot more than let people stroke it at a bike show.

Speedbrain sells some engines right now for half price: G450 X engine, silver, BMW

BTW:
The 450 engine is 33Kg, the 650X is 50kg.

Maybe we should start a Petition : "GET TED A CCM BIKE to MAGADAN" and send it to CCM when we have enough comments/signatures!

Social media is extremely important these days. As ppl said, no one believe journalists' reviews as it is only disguised marketing.

And who, these days, would not be spendning hours on the web for reviews, before buying anything???? I know I do!
Short of the bike exploding I cannot see how this would be bad publicity. The cost for CCM would be only the bike.... which would be vastly compensated by the publicity via discussions here and other travellers forums....

Ted maybe you should send this thread to CCM? :D

Haha maybe... :D

Hmm, so the rags make in up in some sort of alcohol fueled haze, the mags only use words from the nice end of the dictionary in case advertising revenue vanishes and no punter is going to admit they've bought a dog as it makes them looks stupid. Nothing changes then - as they say "many a true word is spoken in jest" and the conclusion above is exactly the message that comes out of a book of the old Ogri cartoons from the 70's that I found recently. Not only are the journo's at it now but their fathers were as well. Must be epigenetics!

Blind date style ride and dump seems like an expensive way of finding out whether a bike is for you. Unless you're some sort of uber salesman (which I'm not) every transaction seems to cost me money. The cynicism that comes with age helps a bit I suppose in that you learn not to trust anything anyone says, ever, but nihilism isn't a good guide to the bike market.

I've boiled my decision making process down to two principles - "buy in haste, repent at leisure" and "a thing of beauty is a joy forever". I usually end up buying bikes I like the look of after thinking about it for some time - but I've bought some rubbish over the years. There must be a better way.

This subject have been discussed before both here and on other forums. What you see is not always the truth. There was a few other things involved in that than what you see on these video, or read in the book (other people might want to elaborate).

And btw. they wanted 950 Adv's as the 990 Adv. only started production in 2006 (as per. wikipedia).

But yes LWR did do magic for BMW, but most of the people buying these BMW's actually never go anywhere interesting (I used to be one of them).

CCM would never be able to beat BMW on that one. They also would never be able to produce that number of bikes. They need to get the overland travelers to buy the bikes, but that will not happen until it is show that the bike actually can do the job.

Casper

KTM's advertising "failure" gets them mentioned in every conversation about how half the world wants a Special Friend with a BMW and the other half thinks it was about as realistic as the other adverts where Kylie likes me in a special way because I have the same deodorant as 300000000 other people. Had Charlie Bormann ended up with a drive shaft through his head and an Afghan drugs lord as his new really special friend, KTM would looked just as good.

The KTM answer is more rough sex for their male deer guaranteed, BMW gambled and won that time.

I'd sign that petition though (and put up the bottle of whisky bet that he can't break it no matter how hard he tries and how often :innocent: )

Andy

Going back and reading this thread from the start I came upon Colebatch's post ... #9 on page one quoted above. Excellent point and something I'm sure CCM are aware of.

This is a big deal ... and getting bigger. It's sure that some of the "new" companies will focus on producing middle weight Adventure bikes. Suffice it to say two punters going RTW on a Bajaj, Loncin or Hero, won't have the same impact as two film stars on BMW GS's. But how long can that "name brand" cache hold sway with the masses? Eventually the Indian and Chinese bikes will actually get better ... might even get very good? It's already happening.

Remember, KTM are now owned near 49% by Bajaj India. Some interesting bikes coming out of that partnership.

Certain riders will hold fast to the standard bearers ... but many aren't long time dedicated MC travelers. Mostly tourists & local riders. BMW's GS sales aren't in immediate danger from CCM or Indian or Chinese interlopers.
No, the GS mystic (myth?) will continue to hold strong ... and IMO, BMW have earned it. No, I'm not saying the GS is the ideal Adventure bike (Ewan and Charlie proved that) ... but it IS a good bike overall. Much better than 5 or 10 years ago ... but not a bike for everyone.

Looking round the over lander community, easy to see many "new" riders are on a budget, maybe just out of school? More well off riders are usually too old and bent to get much out of a performance bike like the CCM. Many stick to old air heads or KLR's. Sure, they have the money ... but aren't in need of top flight performance. The younger crowd won't be able to afford an 8,000 UKP travel bike. (about $12,000 USD) Maybe in 10 or 15 years? :innocent:

I wish CCM all the best ... but even on a good day ... their demographic is tiny and shrinking as more well off riders age. Older travelers are going to want to be catered to, many will sign up for guided tours. Can't blame them. The bike ridden will be of less importance I suspect. Look at the BMW crowd that Tiffany Coates led around in S. America. Lots of Gray hair and bald heads there ... and good on them for getting off the couch and doing it. But I'm not sure ANY will be buying a CCM ... unless as a gift for a son/daughter or nephew! :mchappy:

The more I look at it I think,for its intended use they put the wrong engine in it...
Maybe we will just have wait a year,buy one that 450 motors had a monumental calamity and pop an xt 660 motor in it...if I can see that staring me in the face,and I'm pretty daft,surely someone that's supposed to be clever and design things for company's should have forseen it....
Its more likely that hitlers living under Antarctica as head of BMW bike sales than a 450 thing going around the world without some sort of engine calamity..

Now that would be more like it.....

I've always wished someone would stick a FI 650 single in a decent chassis and not make it weigh like a barrow of bricks.

I was GUTTED when yamaha released the weight stats of the XT660 Tenere. I was literally waiting to be the first one to buy one.... So disappointing.

I had a 660 tenere a couple years back,quite nice on the road,not bad off it,but just a bit chunky..
In a piece of completly unscientific testing I get a fair idea about how manageable bikes are by the speed I can ride down my front steps,narrowly avoiding side of my van and stopping at the bottom before crashing through front door or knocking dustbins into orbit.....current standings are..1st place 250 gas gas,2nd place xt 600 tenere,3 and 4th is probably a tie between the xt 660 z tenere and the tdr 250....f......I me I might get a job as a motorcycle journalist,write a load of crap and have no idea what I'm on about...