Go back to the first post in the thread. Talking details about the WR250 is just as "Off Topic" as talking about old Brit bikes and metalurgy really. No big deal.:cool4:

I've never heard of the Scorpa T- Ride. What is it? Who makes it? History of it?

As for the WR250R....the model we get here in the US would not, to me, be the ideal long distance machine. Both the YZ450F/YZ250 and WR450F/WR250F as sold in the US are all off road, non street legal bikes.

They are SUPER light weight....like 106 kgs. for the WR250, 112 for the WR450. (claimed dry weight) The YZ kick start motocrosser are about 4 kgs. lighter still. (no battery or starter motor)

The weights of the Yamaha's compares very favorably with what Honda are doing with their CRF250X/CRF45X, which are also sold as Off Road only bikes
in the US and also have electric starting. The Yams and Hondas are probably within a kg. of one another.

Suzuki's bikes too are featherweights and now have Fuel injection for 2008.
But Suzuki, at this point, does not have an Off road version, only a moto crosser. But that will change.

Kawi has only a KLX450 off road version...still not street legal in the US, but
a detuned version of the motocross race bike with electric start and lights.

KTM make two street legal dirt bikes....the 450 and 530. Because they are a small manufacturer, are not required to make the bikes totally green, like, say,
Suzuki's DRZ400S, which has many many changes from the Off road E model.

I've heard of a street version of the WR250, made for Japan. Maybe this is the bike that is reffered to in this thread? I've heard it's TOTALLY different to the YZ/WR bikes. Is this bike being imported to the UK?

This might be a good distance bike if you can find a good seat and add luggage?

Patrick :scooter:

So if all these new bikes are so good, why dont I want one ?

It should be obvious that there is no definitive bike for RTW travel.

This is simply a thread for stating our own prejudices and preferences for the bike we ride (or hope to ride) rather than any sort of "definitive" conclusion.

My suggestions:
Stop talking about it - just do it!
Whine about it later, to someone who cares.

I think that was made pretty clear in the first page or so of this thread....you read it ...right? :sneaky2:

Master of the obvious! :smartass:

Oh my, no need to get snippy!
This thread kind of went off in a bunch of different directions. Kind of a fun thread I thought and no one seemed to mind. With such a broad subject, that was bound to happen. If you have something to contribute, then have at it.
If you don't care, then why post at all? :angel:

Patrick:mchappy:

browbeating
 

Ye Gods Patrick take a freakin' pill or something .
Can't anybody on this forum have a point of view other than yours ?

Technology :
I was around in the seventies in the UK and saw those rusting heaps of Japanese junk called cars ,even owned a couple too .Also I rode the bikes as well and when they were new they were great but they got old very fast .
The Japanese electrics a few years down the road were just as troublesome as Lucas . The welding was crap ,they used pressed steel sections that rusted instead of tubing and mostly the handling was awful .The only bike that impressed me at the time was the Kawasaki Z1 because at last the Japs had designed a bike that didn't look chintsy .

Invention:
"You may believe the Brits were the equal of the US in this area...but history sort of proves otherwise."-- I never suggested this Patrick- you did - wanna compare HDs of the time with Brit bikes ?

History:
Industry in the seventies in the UK was in a mess , Triumph workers used to leave little insulting messages in the engine cases for American owners to find.
I haven't tried to defend Brit industry , read what I wrote !
You mention Coal ,both sides of my family were miners , you mention Unions ,I lived in a coal mining area during the days of the 3 day working week and later the miner's strike ,do you want to tell me something about those days that I don't already know ?
What's your point anyway ?
Your view about Triumph is wrong ,they soldiered on until they went bankrupt ,sadly never, ever able to read the writing on the wall .
If only John Bloor had been chairman of BSA/Triumph in those days ; what would be the state of the Brit bike industry now ?

Racing:
British bikes came over to Daytona and won in the seventies and regularly beat Japanese and Italian bikes in International races , the Rob North framed Triumphs and BSA s are legendary .
Peter Williams' racing engineering on the Norton was superb and he beat 4 cylinder Jap bikes on a regular basis ,he experimented with monocoque and trellis frames many years before the Japs , if he had had a modern engine and a decent budget ,what could he have achieved? [ maybe this should be in technology ]
The Honda racers that raced in the Isle of Man were purpose built racers and fast but evil handling pieces of crap that only Mike Hailwood could tame .Yamaha were successful with their two strokes and dominated the smaller classes but in the early years successful racers used British frames . The only guy that could beat Peter Williams' Arter Matchless on the Island was Agostini on the 500 MV and that was well into the seventies .

Cars??
I never mentioned cars Patrick , I thought this was about bikes , but by denigrating British cars are you suggesting that Jap cars of the era were good , how many world rallies did Ford of Britain win -- not a bad record I fear ? .

Planes ???
Didn't mention planes either , but Brit technology can't be all bad or do you guys use the Harrier for shopping trips ? The Yanks used political pressure to destroy many worthy Brit projects .

Points of view of mine :
I lived in the UK during this period and witnessed the Japanese dominance of the bike industry ,it was as much due to the British ineptitude rather than overall Japanese superiority, after the collapse of the British bike industry there was nothing else to buy .The Japanese were great imitators and copied engineering concepts that originated in the West .By and large Japanese engines were reliable ,apart from Honda 4s that had a cam chain trouble and Kawa triples that seized ,and Suzuki triples that grenaded [ the 500 twin was good though ] - oh and wasn't there cam problems with early Honda V4s. So not perfect .

I borrowed a Honda 50 once , I thought that it was a piece of crap and not a thing I would ever want my mates to see me riding . The Honda cub may be the world's most successful bike but it's little more than a moped to me .


Please feel free to disagree and fly off the handle .

Tired
 

Japanese tyres in those days were rubbish too !
[ Obviously a lack of rubber technology ]



Younger readers , ie less than 45 may want to skip this thread .
Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible .

BSA started in the 1860s by independant gunmakers wanting to standardise production .Produced their first motorbike in 1903 and their first car in about 1907 .They owned Daimler cars and also produced bicycles .They had over 60 factories during ww2 making guns ,motorcycles and other things .
They are still around and make a Yamaha engined bike , the name BSA is still seen on air rifles and gun scopes although I think it is a seperate company .

For what it's worth .Comparing bikes of the same era and similar engine size and type .

My BSA started every time first kick ,did not leak oil , vibrated like a bugger , looked great [it was an Eddy Dow special but the later Lightnings were good lookers too ] ,went well for a 650 twin and sounded lovely [ Dunstall Decibel silencers ], handled good .Brakes poor .It never let me down .

My Yamaha starts every time first kick or lectric , leaks oil [clutch and countershaft seals -soon to be fixed ] ,vibrates above 85 mph ,looks horrible, slow for a 650 twin but goes better now the engine has been modified ,sounds nice [Commando exhausts] ,handles average .Brakes good .Blew the alternator twice last year and once this year .This bike was very well regarded in it's day and had a long production run .

My Norton starts first kick , leaks oil [ primary case and gearchange o rings - soon to be fixed ] , vibration is not felt [ isolastic engine mounts ] , looks great , goes really well for a supposedly 67 hp bike , sounds fantastic [Dunstalls ] ,handles really well .Brakes only average .Has never let me down other than an exhaust nut coming loose although I suspect the zener diode will need replacing with a solid state reg/rect system .

I haven't included any singles, triples or 4 cylinder bikes as I believe it's important to compare " like with like" and only comment in depth on bikes that I am completely familiar with .Also the bikes are in similar mechanical condition .
Technology : I've had all of these bikes apart and am impressed with the roller bearings in the Yam engine ,but the quality of it's castings is poor and the intake and exhaust ports are badly shaped . The Norton has superb gas flowing qualities and a good combustion chamber shape but alas no OHC and roller big end .

The Japanese bike has a robust engine that can be tweaked to get more power - it needs it . The BSA produces the same power as the Yam but is faster [ raced with my mate who had one ] .The BSA could be tweaked to get more power as well but not as far as the Yam . The Norton is probably as highly tuned as you would want to go .
Frame technology , Norton far superior , BSA second , Yamaha a very distant third .

Riding pleasure : Norton first by a long way ,Yam and BSA about the same .

All of the above bikes could be trounced by a four cylinder bike ten years younger but that would hardly be a fair comparison .
But it would be interesting to compare them to a Kawasaki W650 and a New Bonneville .

Patrick,

I was talking about the WR250R (not F) which we are getting in the UK and Scorpa T-Ride. Scorpa has a motor at least derived from if not identical to that in the WR250F. Very light and probably very low. Links below:

Hi Ian,
Can you get a test ride on either of these bikes? Neither is very well known, so this might be a way of making headway in your thoughts.

It is not clear here why you are so keen on either of these two; I guess it is the Yam engine?!

Without asking you to write a book, can you explain a bit.

You did get me looking at a few more webpages, such as:-
> > > > Sherco Motorcycles Official Website < < < < (there are dry sump engine designs here as well!)
have you considered this manufacturer, or gas gas or...........whatever.

One, obvious, comment; any race based engine will require more maintenance, mile for mile, than a dual sport design and it will likely (almost certainly) be more frantic to ride. Therefore, take the R route rather than the F model?!!

As for off topic; this thread could run for ever - it started back at the beginning of this year and new models are on the way now for 08, as discussed elsewhere. Therefore, the thread has an indeterminate lifespan.:rolleyes2:

Rusting cars
 

Dodger,
I love it! Like me, you will remember when "Nissin" was "Datsun" (what kind of name is that for a car?) & Vauxhalls (Viva!!!) used to be rusting as soon as they were made (probably rusting while they were put together).

Hi Quastdog,

Your first point: Yep, so the thread could run for ever, or until there are no more opinions to be expressed.

Second point: Opinions are like a*seholes - everyones got one.

Good travels,

Hi Dave , I had Datsuns [ brake pads used to catch fire ] and a Viva and a similar Bedford van all of them were rubbish but the Bedford was useful as it carried my bikes to college !

Hello,

short after i bought a Yamaha TT600R (yes, kickstart...) for off-road fun next to my 1200GS, i decided on a trip through central america, starting in Mexico, ending in, euh, wherever i end up around Darian ;-)

Simple, light, cheap and reliable bike, and lots of aftermarked stuff to convert it to a decent travelbike to go to the america's.

Bought the (4000kms onroad) bike for eur. 2850,- and ordered approx. 1500 for spareparts, big tank, very solid panniersystem, center stand and other usefull bits and pieces. For eur. 4500 i'm ready to go.

I (still) think it is a good decision to go on a cheap low profile bike, but not entirely sure about the absence of the all-mighty-magic-button ;-)

good luck with your choice.

cheers,
Sander

Without this getting into a kick vs button debate, iv far prefer having a kick only bike than a button only.

As long as its easy to kick when your knackered that is.