Its like when I ride my BMW without matching kit, or wear a KTM jacket on it. Its sort of like stripping naked in church....

Oh my goodness Kradmelder. I wear a Hein Gericke jacket on mine and a pair of gloves I bought on ebay for 20 quid. The trousers came from a bike shop for not much more. I must change my ways because I too am a sinner! lol

heh, sorry, my rant was not so much at you, but a common attitude on this forum: no one should buy a GS to ride around the world...no wait, no one should buy a GS if they don't want to ride around the world...no wait, actually, no one should buy a GS at all because a post bike is just as good...

The fact is that they are good bikes. Not the best for everything, but pretty good at most things, and frankly most people don't want or need more than one bike.

As to the low mileage, sure it would be great if everyone rode 50k a year, but people's time, abilities, and opportunities to ride very greatly, and for some people the cost of a bike, even a GS, is not a big burden. At least these people are out there trying it out, and if nothing else they provide a great source of used bikes for other people. I can't fault them for that.

I agree :thumbup1:

I sometimes ride mine with just a T shirt, shorts and veldskoene with no socks....BMW sacrilege. Or sometimes to haul a shop of veggies and potatoes.

What would happen if someone from the BMW club saw me? Certainly I would be told not to consider applying...:rofl:

Kradmelder......you are a rebellious rebel operating at a level of rebellia that I can only aspire to. I tip my hat to you in admiration!

Rebellious, I'll tell you about rebellion, I've recently bought a BMW suit off eBay for £260
Nothing rebelious there granted but the trousers are rallye 3 and the jacket is rallye 2:eek3:

Rebellion. That's not rebellion. When I were a lad we'd go down to BWM dealer, drink nine coffees, test ride GS, RT and RS, try all helmets on, chat up receptionist and then ask if they had anything that'd not get stuck between bollards in't local shopping centre bike parking.


Oh, excuse me, this is the three Yamaha Riders Sketch thread isn't it?






Andy

It's not our fault though. Some BMW owners make it too much fun.

However, It would be quite unfair to label all GS riders as Clueless 'more money than sense', adventure wannabes.... That's just not true.

It's the same as many who ponse about in Land Rover Defenders. Most are parked outside the Savoy while their owners munch prawn sandwiches. But some are thoroughly used and abused all around the world.


What I have noticed is, there is no other brand owner who will get so wound up and rattled about realistic criticism on their bikes.

This is just a generalisation and stereotype from my own experiences but I have found that if you talk about pitfalls of a Honda with a Honda owner or the qwerks of a Triumph with a Triumph owner, you will usually get a "yeah, I know, this is how I live with it/sort it etc etc"

The same conversation with a typical BMW owner will end up in a childish squabble, a patronising eye rolling or look of 'I want my mummy'....

I've worked at a few different Motorcycle franchise's covering all brands and customer type casts. I have to say, some of the customers I have to deal with at BMW are the most unpleasant, arrogant, rude, self important A**e holes I have ever had experience with. NOT ALL, obviously. We also have a few lovely customers who make it bearable.

I think it's the 'prestige' market perhaps that makes it so enjoyable to mock. I have a few mates who sell cars for Porsche and Ferrai and they say the same. The more money they can spend, the bigger arsehole they usually are.

Is it just the working class vs Middle class divide ???? A new shiney GS1200 with all the Sparkles isn't exactly a working man's bike..

Sorry for going off topic... :ban:

dave....that's not being rebellious, that's getting close to being illegal !! :eek:

I have never owned a BMW bike, but I wear a BMW Rallye 3 Jacket and BMW trousers, (Had to replace a wrecked jacket and trousers at short notice and the insurance company paid for it) I ride around on my DR650 - which has no Suzuki decals on it at all. A few times Ive been asked by BMW riders if Im on a BMW 650, when I tell them its a Suzuki they normally look at me like Im the spawn of Satan - Its quite entertaining

FWIW the GS1200 is a bloody good bike, not perfect, but no bike is. The 800's are IMO probably about right for 2up overlanding. Personally I think the 450 class of bikes will be the 'new' 650 over the next few years for (solo) overlanding, they have decent power and are lighter than the 650's and hopefully the reliability will be there as they develop.

Id much rather see thousands of people riding around on shiny new bikes that never go anywhere, than have thousands more cage driving ignorant Muppets on the road trying to kill me

The working classes are now buying adv bikes and holidaying? We are paying them too much!

They should be silent and just polish my bike and bring me a prawn sandwich

I believe at least some of that defensiveness stems from a sort of Gang mentality that's evolved out of BMW "culture".
At least here in the US, it's a real thing:

In the USA there are two huge BMW riding clubs:
https://bmwmoa.org/
The BMWMOA has tens of thousands of paying members, a world class web site, shiny monthly mag and sponsor rallies and events nationwide and in Canada. All to promote the brand. NO ... BMW Gmbh do not pay these clubs,
money is all member generated. Now that is commitment! Only Honda's Gold Wing club can match this. NO other brands see this kind of owner commitment.

The MOA are into everything BMW ... at the rallies it sometimes feels like a political rally! :eek3: As a former MOA member of 9 years ... been there, seen it all 1st hand. Their disdain for anything Japanese is palpable. Of course I'm not talking about ALL BMW folk ... but there are enough so you'd notice.

BMW RA
The "RA" or Rider's Association, bit smaller. But also put out their own glossy monthly magazine and sponsor huge rallies nationwide. They are in friendly competition with MOA ... some super fans are members of both clubs.

This group think is also encouraged on some public all brand forums like ADV Rider ... which has always been very BMW centric ... but now has somewhat shifted to being KTM centric as well. :devil:
Many of the ADV principles and key players were/are MOA members and attended rallies (still attend?) You could argue the MOA created the inspiration for ADV Rider.

BMW owners find strong reinforcement and encouragement from all sides of their culture. Nay sayers not tolerated. This "education" can lead to a fundamental ignorance and create self absorbed and arrogant riders that Ted spoke of.

After a while they can't tolerate any criticism of the brand ... no matter how accurate. We've all seen this over reaction here and on other forums. Why so defensive?

Truth. They don't like it. :stormy:

For years and years BMW lied and ignored known problems. They often put spin on issues and generally soft pedaled them as "no big deal". This did not make everyone happy ... and many long time customers have moved on.
(reams of documentation of dozens of issues all over the internet)

Things at BMW are better now after two major management shakeups. But for many, the deed is done and won' t be soon forgiven. :thumbdown:

I ride with a former BMW dealer principle and 2 former BMW dealer mechanics. I get a more inside view of what that "Truth" thing is. My BMW riding buddies (most, but not all) freely admit to shortcomings of the bikes, no attitude ... and can not only verify their existence ... but will tell you how to get BMW to fix things. These guys long ago dropped that "BMW Right Or Wrong" marching theme.

NOTE:
All still own/ride BMW ... but also know (and freely admit) that servicing, care and feeding is not always simple or cheap. (most own other brands too ... 6 DR650 in our little riding group! :thumbup1:)

I thought of making a sticker to stick on the GS bikes:
"my other bike is a Suzuki!". :smartass:

Especially among newly indoctrinated BMW riders/members ... we sometimes see a zealous and illogical loyalty towards BMW. Lots of the jokes and videos come from experiences with this small group.

But as you've said Ted ... plenty of "good guys" out there riding, doing the real deal.

I love riding the GS's ... both F800 & R12GS. But would not own either as I've been on WAY TOO MANY rides where someone's BMW crapped out and ended up at the end of a tow rope or on a truck. True story!

Mollydog, what about the harley HOG clubs? Surely that surpasses any bmw club? We have bmw clubs here as well. And bmw rallys. I avoid them like anything brand related. Makes no sense. Maybe we both drink coke or klipdrift brandy. What does that give us in common? A style of bike ok, but a brand?

I can see good points in any bike. Except a harley. Its just heavy underpowered noisy unreliable vibrating hunk of metal with bad brakes with no real application. The victory of image over substance.

Yes, HOG is big ... but not as active as it once was. Not sure how their rallies compare to the various BMW ones, not sure how they work or if they have a National rally the way the MOA and RA do. I've only been to Sturgis and Daytona. But HOG is BIG for sure, it's true. I should have included them.

Remember, in 2009 HD lost 47% of sales. They've come back up now ... but took a huge hit and were down BIG a couple years.

BMW somehow grew during the financial collapse. Amazing! (check the stats)

Have you owned a lot of Harley's ? You sound like an expert! :rofl: