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Gotta keep a good thread going.
I'm looking forward to Michael's info on the ExtremeAire, which seems to be, along with the exorbitant Grand Erg, the only electric comp which comes near my needs. I've also looked at 240 volt compressors (got a 2.5kw genny) but when I told the super specialist salesman that it has to take 6 tyres to 75psi he took me to a bloody great belt driven monster that I just can't pack anywhere. As with the hyd/elec winch argument, the electric compressor is much simpler than running off the engine, but the engine has a few more watts. I've finally figured out where I can move the alt to in order to accomodate an a/c comp (not much space under an Iveco bonnet), now I'm looking for a suitable unit. Stacks of web info on choosing a US one, but not much for europe. Does anyone know of a european vehicle which uses a York comp? Or how to spot a decent self lubricating one of the barrel shape? Michael, if you're running tyres that will take it (XZL or XZY do) could you do me a favour and time your comp up to 75psi to give me a better idea of whether the electric is worth the hassle saved in not messing around with fan belts. Congrats on taking the plunge, do they offer an anti meltdown guarantee? If they claim 100% duty cycle they should. Thx for all Luke |
Luke,
Speak to Bob at Motor Climate 66-102 Cherrywood Road, Bordesley Green Birmingham B9 4UD, United Kingdom Tel: +44 (121) 766 5006, Fax: +44 (121) 772 8397 They can supply York mini and super compact compressors with double groove clutch units. True about the engine power being used more wisely to run a compressor rather than running a generator to convert engine power into electric power to be further coverted into electric motor power moving the compressor's piston. It's like using an voltage converter to step up 12V to 240V to run a device charging a 6V battery. Silly, isn't it? The CO tank has been already discussed here and the idea discarded as not practical in long range travel conditions. 40 tyres is just ten instances of reinflation, which may be OK for weekend off-roading but certainly not a lot on a longer trip. ------------------ Roman (UK) www.polandrover.com |
I was recently sent some details of an american compressor designed for engine mounting - will dig out the details
As for running a workshop compressor type arrangement - thats exactly what I do. I have a small 100 Litre Per minute compressor (B&Q sell them for running nailguns) and run it off a 1500 watt inverter Pumps up my tyres no problem (10.5/20 Unimog tyres on a LR101) ------------------ Rich LR101 300Tdi Ambi 'Tiggurr' |
I wouldn’t say we dismissed the CO2 tank idea (although I have an engine mounted York). I calculated that number (40 tires) when inflating a bigger than average 31”x10.5 tire from only 10 PSI to 30 PSI. In a real expedition you will only re-inflate to that pressure when you hit the tarmac again. For your other 10 times you will only re-inflate to say 20 PSI after getting unstuck. And will you really need to re-inflate 10 times? I’ve been on some long trips and I never had to inflate more than 4 times. And that includes the great sand sea.
It’s a great option for those who don’t want, or don’t know how, to modify their engine bays to accommodate an engine driven compressor and want something faster and more reliable than an electric one. Take a look at the charts on this page: http://www.powertank.com/chart.htm A Sanden compressor will work too and has a much smaller profile, however it will need to be oiled often as it doesn’t hold oil as good as Yorks. ------------------ A.B. OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara. ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations. |
Hi Luke et al...
Got back from Morocco a few days ago - had a fabulous trip! I've never had much success with 12V compressors before - they never seem to come anywhere close to the manufacturers' claims in real life operation. And most often even the manufacturers' claims amount to barely acceptable performance if you're pumping lots of big tyres. Unfortunately, the Extremeaire didn't live up to my expectations. It should have been adding one bar to each of my tyres in around 1 minute, without any holding tanks. (Extremeaire quote a free flow of 4CFM, wich equates to someting over 100 litres perminute, unless my arithmetic is faulty). To confuse the issue though, I have installed 2 x 20 litre holding tanks, which pressurise to 10Bar before turning off the pump. However, even with these tanks fully charged to 10Bar BEFORE I started filling the tyres, pumping all 6 of my tyres from 1.5 to 2.5Bar took 25 minutes! I calculate that each of my tyres as a volume of 100 litres, so upping the pressure by 100kPa should need a total of 600 litres of air for the set. The 40 litres of holding tank should provide around half the air needed. (I guess the pressure can fall from 10Bar to around 3Bar and still pump a tyre to 2.5. So there is 7Bar worth of usable pressure, times 40 litres, equals nearly 300 litres.) So I would have expected 3 minutes to pump all my tyres, not 15! Incidentally, filling the 40 litre holding tanks from zero to 10Bar takes more than 20 minutes too, which is disappointing, amounting to an average flow rate of only 20 litres per minute. It doesn't slow down significantly towards the end. At this stage I am hoping that the fault lies in an air system blockage (maybe a faulty non-return valve?). Or maybe my electrics are not providing enough current. Or maybe my pump is faulty. Or the whole 12V thing is just unworkable. On the plus side, on one occasion we did run the pump for over an hour, continuously, pumping tyre on several vehicles, in a 38 deg C ambient temp, and the pump got hot, but not unduly so... I'll keep you informed once I get to the bottom of the issue, if anyone is interested. Meanwhile, I am thinking engine-driven mechanical pumps... Regards, Michael [This message has been edited by SandyM (edited 26 November 2002).] |
Okay,
Tried out the grand erg, with the 12v motor - wow!! Didn't bother with stats, from v.flat to road-ready-to-go max 90 secs per 7.50R16. Ace with motorbike tyres as well! Expensive, but a good LONG TERM investment. Sam. PS just make sure you get a 12v, not 24v, unit for your 4wd! |
An update on my ExtremeAire compressor. Good news - I discovered it was the one-way valve that was constricting the air flow. The very first fitting I screwed into the pump!
I took this out, and attached an air-line directly to the pump. It fills my 110 litre tyre (255/85-16) from absolutely flat to 1 Bar in 90 secs. Another two and a half minutes to raise the pressure from 2.5 Bar, making a total of 4 minutes. I would expect this to take just under 3 minutes according to spec, but I can live with 4 mins. It also now takes under 10 minutes to fill my 50 litres of holding tank to 10 Bar. (Incidentally, astute Gentle Readers will notice I am not 100% certain of their capacity - I thought they were 20 litres each, but now I believe they are 25 litres each). I am much happier now! Regards, Michael |
All you ever wanted to know about this subject!
Sam. |
many thanks to all and expecially to A.B. for his tech advise. I bought an old ('81) Range Rover 3.5 V8 and I noticed that the original A/C compressor was a long-stroke York, so I decided to make the mods well described by A.B.
After a trip in the Lybian desert I can confirm all the performances described in the post; it pump up tyres in seconds and can reseat punctured tyres (luckily not mine!). The only problem is that the compressor sprays oil from the outlet port to the tank, filling also the thin plastic tube of the pressure relief with the need of frequent services. The compressor was filled with the recommended amount of mineral oil (see the RR Workshop Manual or the York compressors manual at www.onboardair.com) On this manuals is recommended to check the oil level after some working time, so it seems that a little oil is intended to mix to the cooling fluid maybe via some passage in the cylinder head.In an open circuit pumping air like mine this would result in a continuos leakage. Can someone give further informations before I start opening the compressor's head? Thanks Gipo |
You’re welcome Gipo, glad to have helped.
First off, oil is not good for the tires and will shorten its life. If the tires are new or in good condition, I would dismount them and clean both the tires and rims well with detergent to remove the thin oil film that formed on them. If the tires are a bit old or will be replaced soon then don’t bother. Continuous leakage, as you call it, is normal since as you said this is an open circuit with no recycling of fluids or even air. What we do is install an air filter on the outlet of the compressor to catch all the oil. Make sure it’s a good quality filter that 1) filters well and 2) can handle the pressure of the pump. Most filters have a drain plug at the bottom of the collected oil cone reservoir to drain the oil. You can connect that drain hole to the air inlet of the compressor and install some sort of faucet or valve. Every few hours of use open the valve and the compressor will suck the oil back in. From my personal experience I’ve never been able to fill the compressor to the level recommended by the manufacturer. It spits almost all the oil back out. And the oil filter <-> air intake trick I mentioned above didn’t work for me since my compressor “leakage”, which I got used, was excessive. Every few months, in order to keep my compressor lubricated, I disconnect the outlet hose and attach a small 20cm hose that ends in a small container. I turn the compressor on and slowly pour oil in the filler/dipstick plug. I keep doing that for a few minutes to make sure that all the components get lubricated. I stop pouring the oil but keep the compressor running for a couple of minutes to catch the excess (if I can call it that) oil then hook everything back together. When I first installed the compressor and found that this is all I can do, I didn’t think it would survive long as the oil seems to be insufficient. I set aside money for a new compressor unit but 5 years down the road, I still use that same old compressor with great results even though I make it work pretty hard. Usually when I’m on a trip the electric compressors are never taken out of their cased my compressor does all the work. ------------------ A.B. OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara. ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations. |
After rather bad experiences with different electric compressors (Truckair, ARB, Grand Erg and others) we decided to buy an EMS compressor M55. It is extremly heatresistant (we use it mainly on Sahara trips), very fast and the price is almost the same as for GRAND ERG. Even refilling the tires of three cars in a row on hot days was never a problem. Only disadvantage: EMS compressors are rather big. So we decided to keep it in a plastic container instead of fixing it permanently in the car. Here in Germany EMS is sold by BEDUIN tents & more.
http://www.dachzelte-und-mehr.de/KOM...pressoren.html Regards Joe |
Dear A.B.,
I found this 3d very interesting and helpful. I am just about to fit a Sanden SD7H15 onto the engine of my truck and would like to know your advice as far as lubrication is concerned. Sanden do have their own oil reservoir. Will I need an "oiled air" inlet anyhow? And in this case, would it be possible to connect it directly to the drain plug of the oil filter on the outlet to get the oil "recirculated"? Does anybody know the max rpm an airco compressor can be run at? Thanks for the replies. Ciao Adriano |
Hello Adriano, Welcome to the HUBB.
The SD7 compressors I’ve seen in the past do not have an oil reservoir, nor does the York. It’s just that since the York is upright and the crankshaft is at the bottom just like a normal engine, the oil stays at the bottom. That’s not the case with the SD7 since it has 7 rotary pistons (as apposed to 2 in the York) and they are arranged sideways like a gun barrel when aiming. So in any case without periodic lubrication the top pistons will not get enough lubrication. You don’t need a permanent oiled air intake. Just put some oil in every now and then and it will be fine. Don’t be afraid if you put more than needed, the excess will be thrown out and caught in the filter. Yes, you can install an oil return hose from the filter to the compressor inlet but you can’t just leave it open. The compressor will create a constant high vacuum when operating and filters aren’t designed to handle such vacuum from this end for so long. So install a valve that you can open manually once the filter is filled. This is still a manual operation but easier and not as messy. RPM? I’m not sure but at least it will run safely at 4000 RPM. Don’t worry about revving the engine more than that while driving since the compressor’s clutch will be disengaged and it can rotate freely faster than that. The clutch will only be engaged when pumping air and that’s not going to happen unless the vehicle is stationary. Are you going to fill the tires while moving? http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif The following link might be of help to you: Sanden Service Manual http://www.sanden.com/support/servic..._contents.html Hope this helps. ------------------ A.B. OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara. ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations. |
Update/Correction: I just went through some of the info I saved from the web and other sources about the SD5 and SD7. They need more frequent lubrication than York. A source went as far as suggesting oiling it every time/day before use. So I guess you should install an inline oiler and forget about it. If you’re going to install a return hose from the filter, you’ll still need the valve.
------------------ A.B. OasisPhoto.com – Images from the Magical Sahara. ShortWheelbase.com – Jeep preparations. |
Hello adri and A.B.,
I'm not sure about Sanden, but York compressors use any of these oils: Mineral Oil, Zerol 150, Zerice S-68, P.O.E.Polyol Ester (P.O.E.) P.A.G. Yorks can be fitted at plus/minus 45 deg. from vertical as the oil chamber is at the bottom. This does not prevent oil from getting into the outlet, so an oil separator will be required. I can't confirm this but I know a guy who maintains that an oil separator is redundant. Under desert driving conditions tyres won't last long anyway, hence deterioration of rubber through contact with oil is not a problem. I have a separator, also to keep the air oil-free for other applications, like dusting off cameras. The trick with the separator is to use one that will withstand high temperatures (they are normally rated up to 50 deg. C). Here's a diagram of the installation: http://www.eh71.dial.pipex.com/publi...iondiagram.gif More info about York lubrication here: http://www.eh71.dial.pipex.com/public/yorkoillevels.pdf As a matter of interest, I found a document describing how to avoid oil blow-by through the air outlet in York compressors (I haven't tried it yet but maybe someone has and could comment). The document is here: http://www.eh71.dial.pipex.com/publi...lblowbyfix.pdf ------------------ Roman (UK) www.overlandcruiser.info |
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