just to mention some extra equipment standard in a TLC that LR doesn't have:
- both front and rear diff locks (on the diff and not on the transfer case)
- two 90 liters diesel tanks
- freewheel hubs
- selective 2 or 4 WD
- water separator (RAKO filter) with a warning light on the dash
- an altitude sensor on the injection pump that make them smoke less on higher altitudes (some models)
- front coils and rear leafs
- tilt adjustable steering
- water free cabin
- disc brakes front and rear

mmmhhh....

mario,

sorry to rain on your parade, but only some of these features come as standard, sadly only those that are not at the top of anyone's priority list, such as tilt adjustable steering
or leek free cabin. Most other features depend on LC model, spec level, market, year of manufacture, etc.

------------------
Roman (UK)
www.overlandcruiser.info

with most of those'features' I don't really understandwhat your getting at As far as I am aware the only vehicle that comes with standard cross axle diff locks is a G waggon (other than a unimog of course, but that's a ratehr different league) despite this the Gwagon is not as capable off road as a lR, mainly because of axle articlutation, although tom shepherd has one, and he knows a thing or 2
Freewheeling hubs, I have yet to notice any benefit fromthese whatsover on the 10 or so different off roaders I have owned. Just another thing to go wrong, and they do. You can't have them on a full time 4x4 anyhow
on that point landrovers are full time 4x4 which is considerably better than part time, allowing better grip on road and in marginal conditions(eh ice). It also allows the use of low ration in situations of high grip/low speed such as rock crawling or reversing a trailer, (part time 4x4 will egt transmission windup in such circumstances.
newer landrovers have engine management systems which readjust engine timing according to such factors as althitude
110 and 90 landrovers have discs up front and drums rear, newer ones have discs all round.
front coils rear leafs? a rather irrelevant point really in a discussion about optional versus standard equipment. discusions on the relative merits of these two systems would occupy a whole other topic.

I don't think a water free cabin really counts as standard or optional equipment.
tilt adjustable streering wheel, well!?

There are a whole multitide of things that come as standard on landrovers, discussion of which would be just as pointless.

for example.
central locking- you can reach both front doors from the driving position
automatic windows - you automatically open them when it gets too hot
surround sound (work that one out!)
face level fresh air system
etc etc etc

fair enough...
you keep the car with central locking-automatic windows and surround sound...
and I keep the one front coils/rear leafs-double diff lock and 180 liter diesel...

Runner

I rest my case...

------------------
pigapitcha

Thank you. A list was all I wanted. Apart from a few features (some of which arent TLC standard fit on all models eg diff locks) there doesnt seem to be much there to make a difference

diff locks - standard argument goes that with superior axle articulation and a centre diff, front and rear axle lockers arent needed. They arent fitted as standard on all TLCs anyway. Having trundled my 110 through the giant dunes of the Great Sand Sea and the five foot peat bog of the Yorkshire Moors Im happy with the LR setup

Twin tanks - two schools of thought - do you go for non-removable weight (twin tanks) which can be a hassle when stuck or removable weight (jerry cans) which can be added clutter? They are a factory option on some LRs anyway but I went for the latter.

Freewheel hubs - pointless to many

Selective 2wd or 4wd - negligible benefit (and I might add, with a grin 'ooh, LR did away with that years ago!' http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/wink.gif )

Water separator - yes please

Altitude sensor - yes please

Front coils and rear leaves - so? (and not standard anyway)

Tilt adjustable steering - erm...

Water free cabin - ditto

Front and rear discs - so does my Defender?

Doesnt seem much of a 'case'.... water sensor and altitude sensor are nice extra goodies but hardly a vast argument.

The only TLC Ive been tempted by was the straight-6 Troop Carrier, but the cart springs and lack of axle travel/ground clearance put me off.

Central locking and automatic windows? Keep them - they get jammed with sand in the Sahara. Surround sound? I dare say folk can live without it. I have it cos I fitted it myself but its hardly a prerequisite for an expedition wagon.

Bored now.

[This message has been edited by Runner (edited 08 July 2005).]

:-) nice.

in short my experience.
I've been traveling together with a couple in a TLC 78 from halfway Gabon down till halfway Angola. I was in a LR disco 200tdi (with 225/75 tires).

On several occasions they mentionned 'maybe we should get a disco next time...'. This I think was because, without giving much to worry about, the disco was pretty capable, maneuvreable, comfortable, and increadibly cheap second hand.

As for off-road capabillity, non of us got stuck. TLC had to resort to axle diff locks like 2 times. I'm sure it would have managed with open diffs just as well.

Despite more fuel capacity on the TLC, we had a comparable range (I did like 8,5l/100km, with an 80l tank).

In the dessert, the big TLC engine has the edge (on the other side, this engine is hard on the clutch, and on the TLC it's the clutch that might go wrong). Now, for all 'normal' dessert tourists, I'm pretty sure this doesn't matter. The LR's are slower in deep sand. Might be safer as well is'nt it?

Once trough the dessert, there's no advantage in having 4.2l engine, and in the mud, I think it's rather a disadvantage then an advantage.

Oh yeah, and the disco has a steel innershell, so there's no need for a roll cage. (I do recomment a steering guard, which is not an increadably expense, and it doesn't weight a ton)

I rest my case too...
you win...
you keep your beautiful Land Rovers with all those advantages...
and I keep my TLC with all these disadvantages

fair enough.

Nothing like a good flame war to wake everyone up - how about discussing macs vs PCs ;-)

The LRs and LCs are both extremely capable machines out of the box and are used in that form all around the world.

A few years ago when I was looking for a 4x4, I went down the 80 series TLC route on the following basis.

They are solid and reliable when properly maintained.
They provide a higher level of comfort to most LRs.
Diff locks all round as standard (UK spec).
Coil springs all round.
Disks all round.
The 4.2l TD engine is one of the best around.
TLCs have out sold LRs 20 times world wide, which has to count for something.

And from the Owners CLub point of view, it is interesting to note that a number of the serious overlanders like Roman have moved over to TLCs from LRs.

And to mention another overlander I know who is a LR fanatic, but also has a 80 series TLC that he occasionally uses, he sent his TLC in for service and it needed new seals on a caliper - his comment was that he was surprised that is all that it needed - his LRs (he has had a string of them) always needed a lot more doing to them.

Personally I am aiming to get a 95-97 80 series TLC with the 24valve 4.2TD coupled to the strong auto box. Mechanically I would just add a decent OME suspension upgrade, an oil cooler for the auto box (in line with the Asian spec) and then some steel wheels and tyres - that is all you really need - the rest is pretty solid.

You can of course add on things like steering protectors, long range fuel tanks, etc, but those are primarily personal choices.

------------------
Cheers,

Julian
Euro Landcruiser Owners Club
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/

This one is going to run and run. Bit like my 80 series Land Cruiser really.

Off to fit some Escape seat covers.

Pip pip

Jeremy

------------------
pigapitcha

you may not have noticed, I have both!!!

the central locking and auto windows was a joke by the way!

andy

toyoya landcruiser H60
landrover 101 ambie/camper
morris minor traveller

I really like Macs. PC are terrible. In fact anyone with a PC is a heathen who should be burned.

*hides*

I really like PCs, macs are terrible. In fact anyone with a mac is a heathen who should be burned.

!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I really like Macs. PC are terrible. In fact anyone with a PC is a heathen who should be burned.

*hides*[/QUOTE]

"... said recently that Land Cruisers last three years in African conditions, Land Rovers last fifteen years..."

An intriguing stat - not sure how you calculate it but I bet those LRs can be deployed in less than 45 mins too... ;-)

Ch

After your healthy debate and our own research - For our 1st choice of truck - We are hoping to get a new 78 for the trip.

Good news is that we have sources in Germany, Denmark & Belgium. Bad news is that we r quickly finding out that the purchase process would be a compliated one!
Issues to name a few:
- time limit for export from EU in order to recoup VAT is btwn 5-8 days (does this sound right?)
- time limit for export obviously gives us no time to make additional mods to the truck before setting off - unless there is a way around it??
- potential problems w registration the UK??

Anyone have experience with these hurdles?? Can u offer any advice on how to deal with? Know what other options we might have and not know of?? Or suggestion on other avenues we could go down that could make process easier??

Thanks for your thoughts!