Yup, I know, that's why at home I only use aluminum... The advantages are unsurpassed...

http://trex63.smugmug.com/Miscellane...IMG14261-L.jpg

Hmmmmm is this bait ?? We haven't had a good E&C rant for at least a few weeks...doh

It matters not when you're on a sponsored Thomas Cook holiday with a small army running behind you to touch up your make up...

:D

Also, nothing wrong with looking good when on adventure travel. I for one ALWAYS take my curling iron and hair dryer even on shorter trips... call me vain...

i like the soft starbuck cups being new to coffee,do think the ali cups change the feel of the drink

Who needs a cup, drink directly from the pot!

http://actiontouring.com/pic/coffe.jpg

nice pot where did you get it ,think i may give up starbucks and go for the hard stuff

Clearly armatures, because it was their first really long trip. And, before them, adventure travel was hardly noticed... :innocent:

very true rex .so would this site be here and so great if the two actors hadn't been on there thomas cook holiday ,just a question ?

Sorry, I can't remember where I bough it but I'm sure you can find one here:

Galla Coffee: How a Stove-top Espresso Maker Works

On the other hand I've heard that Starbucks will open quite a few places in Norway in 2014 so maybe I'll sell mine, I will let you know :cool4:

Well i agree with Ted, while I was in the Army I used 58 pattern, old style webbing till a few years ago, it would suck up water like a sponge then shrink dry and be a pain, but lasted years! of very abusive treatment! I would use an otleib Roll bag, have used them diving too! still kept things bone dry, a few weeks a go Aldi where selling there Dry Bags £7. 40 ltr Sailing bag thtey go like hot cakes not as good as otleib but for £7! go figure, when ever I see them for sale or reduced I pick them up always a bargain, a right No Brainer.
I get my new bike this coming week, she comes fitted with Givi Top & Panniers, I know I will use the top box for everyday bimberling carrying stuff, but if I am going on a tour take it off & put my Otleib on there across the two panniers, as 1) get more in it 2) I just prefier it, payes your £££ takes your Choice

SOme Givi-stuff a bit down on this page: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...aniers-28802-3

Mate take all of what you read here, with interest added a pinch of salt.
The Only way you will know is by trying it, even if going to local woods along local green lane after a heavy rainfall and bimble through then try on a good sunny day, with soft & hard, with some items you intend to take, it is only a guide line for you.
you can either spend lots of time & effort worrying about if you can do it or not or get on and go after some prep, what ever you decide, Good Luck enjoy the trip.

No, just wingers. Had to change the channel the other day cause I couldn't handle the winging any more. The tough stuff should be fun and make you laugh. So long as you're dry and fed, what's the worst that can happen?

Yep, and it was before that.

TELL/SHOW ME MORE!!!!! Is there a route to follow through those dunes?

Thomas, kevlar reinforced carbon fibre coffee cups are the future. :thumbup1:

In terms of what?

In terms of never having done it before and never seeking any advice, therefore no knowing what to expect in terms of riding, or how badly a heavy bike will impact handling (your initial question), yes, they were naive. Completely naive. And if you watch LWR, you see that in Mongolia, and you see it on the Road of Bones. At one point they admit as much when unloading about 30 kgs of luggage each at a hotel on the Lena Highway. They admitted they had no idea what to take and had taken way too much weight.

On the other hand, they aslo claimed the hard panniers had saved Ewans life when a car rearsided them in Calgary. Maybe thats true. So you can take out of their experience whatever you like; for hard panniers or against them, but your original question was how does loaded hard panniers impact handling in particular. And obviously the answer is negatively. And more negatively than if it were with loaded soft bags.

I suggested earlier that you really need to look at all previous threads related to soft vs hard and all get all sides of the debate and all types of opinions, and them make your own mind up, because just by asking that question on here you are opening the forum up to a debate it has already had many, many times before. Plenty of us here have many wide and varied opinions on the subject. As you have just discovered. Dont take the actual debate too seriously - its just a bunch of those varied opinions coming out - we have been here before and are used to it - its part of the circus :) .... but you need to look at those opinions and take out of it what most strikes a chord with whatever type of travel you have in mind.

How crucial it is to you to have the best possible handling depends on your own personal preferences. But you also need to be open enough to consider that any preconceived ideas of 'how it should be done' are not necessarily the ones you will have once you have finished your first big trip, with whatever challenges you want to put in them. Every single bike traveller / adventurer I know has different tastes and priorities. Thats why there are few simple answers to questions.