i can't believe it won't ride on water ,bmw have a lot to answer for

My XT cost more than my Rotax. Just saying...... ?c?

All my hard luggage leaked. They're not as waterproof as people make out to be. Key with all luggage is to have stuff that absolutely can't get waterproof stored in a waterproof roll top closure bag. Who cared if your shampoo case gets wet so long as my sleeping bag doesn't. Don't even care if my tent is wet. Pack your stuff smartly and you can get away with cotton shopping bags. On a side note, all my waterproof inner bags were torn at the end of the trip because of the rubbing and pulling them in and out of hard luggage. Not so with soft. After a repair job you can also say bye bye to keeping your gear waterproof (even with innner bags) with hard. With soft unless I'm not sure. Haven't had a good run of gravel rash with them yet. Anyone?

Ted, you've got to crash harder. What the repair plan for shattered givi's? Has anyone cracked a pelican case?

Is that a result of wind strength Dodger, or does the bike instantly keel over when hit by the aroma? :innocent:

hmmmm, i'm not too sure really. I've never had one break on me yet.

I've heard of people melting cracks together with a soldering iron or just a plastic patch held on with epoxy.

With BIG cracks, you can patch again with a piece of plastic/mild steel using pop rivits or small bolts.

The major benefit of the plastic stuff is that it ALWAYS keeps it's shape..


The BMW "extendable" luggage on the GS650's is the worst EVER though. My travel partner in Africa had these and they were a constant curse. Every topple (mud, sand etc) had them implode or fall apart. They whole box would then have to be removed, battered, shaped, fiddled with.. Fisher Price wouldn't put their name to them...NIGHTMARE !!

so guys we have talked about this and the answer is soft or hard?

The choice is yours and yours alone...

I've tried them all. I started with plastic, went to expensive aluminium and now I wouldn't travel overland with anything but soft...

Although, if I was in Europe and had no challenging off-road, I'd use plastic !

I suggest you but a set of old army canvas bags for £30 and give them a go. If it doesn't work for you it's much less of a sting to the wallet than spending £500-£1000 on metal boxes.

...aluminum boxes :innocent:

My training regime incorporates a diet of 3 day old steak and kidney pie ,brussel sprouts and eight pints of Marston's Pedigree .
Power and aroma are sometimes unpredictable.
But I find Beemers keel over the easiest ;one blast and the final drive falls apart ,another blast has the dealer coming to fetch the bike .
VStroms being a bit more aerodynamic can deflect the blast ,although the scorch marks may be embarrasing .[ on the bike that is ].

Well, what do you expect, Beemers are sensitive and sophisticated...:euro:

This than shows that YMMV is guaranteed. My F has been brilliant and predictable. But than I know the bike's little quirks. :innocent:


Statistically you'll end up with ali ones anyway. Until you find some local dirt riding IF you end up enjoying the challenges and end up seeking it. That picture through the sand should be a blast to punch trough. But the legs out with the hard panniers is all to familiar. It just sucks with boxes bolted on. In Bolivia Altiplano NP on a heavily sand corrugated section near the border with Chile a bloke on a new HP2 came the other way. I asked him what the story was and he turned around because his gear was just making it impossible to do it enjoyably. To much rattle as well. doh

A russian guy I know who has ridden around the world once summarised this debate .... not saying I agree with him - at least not to this degree ... but his quote was simple and catchy:

"The pros use soft bags, the amateurs use metal boxes."

My experience is probably more like ... the experienced increasingly use soft bags, while the inexperienced are more likely to begin using metal boxes. i.e. There are many who started with metal boxes who switch to soft bags as they get more experienced. Many of the guys posting in this thread advocating soft bags are guys who began touring with metal boxes. They converted.

In the other direction, there are very few who switch from soft bags to metal boxes as they get more experienced.

There are experienced riders out there who still ride with metal boxes. But in most of those cases, its guys (or girls) who have never tried doing a long trip with soft bags.

Its an emotional debate ... and I will probably be flamed for having a pretty strong opinion on it. But I think I have enough experience to justify a strong opinion.

There are many threads on this site covering this ongoing debate of soft vs hard :) It may be worth your while to search them if you have doubts, read the opinions of others, and draw your own conclusions. beer

And you'll probably find a thread or 2 of me arguing for hard pannier. Please don't quote them in here. :helpsmilie:

Soft off road
Plastic on road

...and aluminum for either one :laugh:

Very well summed up Colebatch. I have to agree with everything you said. Oh and who is your Russian biker RTW'er friend? Sounds like a smart guy.

To answer the OP about handling which then turned into a Hard vs Soft vs Plastic debate:

Added unbalanced weight will contribute to poor handling but there are things you should do whatever luggage you choose. Keep in mind that each bike has it's own max carrying capacity.

This is not just in reference to the suspension, handling or tyre capabilities but also to not stress the frame and engine beyond its designed capacity.

To compensate for extra weight and overloading, you should do the following:
1) increase tyre pressure - I usually run 2-3 psi higher
2) check oil more regularly
3) check/adjust suspension setup - you may need higher rated spring(s)
4) increase stopping distances - more load means it will take longer to stop
5) keep heavy items as low and central as possible
6) keep weight in topbox to minimum (to much weight will cause the bike to tail steer in soft surfaces and can cause an accident)
7) adjust front/rear balance - where possible redistribute the weight to the front of the bike

With the right setup your bike should still handle as well as with just the rider with no luggage. BUT every rider should customise their bike setup for themself.

Ted started a good thread on this very topic here.