Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB
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Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/)
-   Yamaha Tech (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/yamaha-tech/)
-   -   xt600e no start, coil question. (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/yamaha-tech/xt600e-no-start-coil-question-102464)

*Touring Ted* 11 Jan 2022 06:20
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillben (Post 625435)
Hi all



It got me thinking to the last issue bike had when it stopped working at the end of Octiber. The starter relay did that thing where it stopped on and wouldn't switch off without battery disconnection. It did this when it was in a garage getting an MOT so may well have been doing it for a while and damaged the brushes before the mechanic noticed it. He replaced the relay for a better one and I ran it for about a week during which it got harder to start and finally wouldn't.

I got the battery checked at a workshop and it has enough amps.

So I am now thinking the starter motor is damaged and only able to turn weakly and not generate enough sparks. I had a damaged floor polisher which still span but wouldn't polish floors, as it was too slow and weak, which is kind of the same thing!



Ben
This is important info you should have divulged at the beginning doh:innocent::rofl:

I've had bikes with dodgy starter motors that draw SOOO many amps (shorting out) that the bike literally doesn't have anything left for the ignition system.

xtrock 11 Jan 2022 12:01
If you use car battery you will know the difference, if you are a rooky with measuring current and faulty problems i suggest buying som meters with 0,75 cable. Run new wires if you not sure anything is working, like to the coil, disconnect wires and replace with new, run in directly to starting point, TCI and starter relay, you now have ruled out problems with other switches and relay on the way. Youhave manual and routing of cables use it, its not 100% same as 4pt but end station is similar.

*Touring Ted* 11 Jan 2022 15:10
Also.. Replace continuity tests with voltage drop tests.

Checking for continuity (no break in cable) doesn't tell bugger all about how many amps that cable is carrying or if it's losing amps due to shorting or degradation.

The circuit must be live to volt drop test it. This will be an excellent test to do on your starter motor to see if it's shorting out or got too much resistance.

It's REALLY easy to do. Youtube it.

stillben 12 Jan 2022 15:13
Thanks found a good video.will have a go

stillben 13 Jan 2022 13:50
drop volt test
 
nice sunny day so got out there

battery voltage 12.6v

B wire test 12.6 then 0.2 volts when cranked---so that looks good

(Batt positive terminal to B wire post on starter)

Ground test 0.01 test and 0.01 volts when cranked---so that looks good

(Batt negative terminal to nut on starter)

S (switch connection on relay red wire) - couldn't get a voltage here from positive battery terminal to S connection on relay. could however get a 12.6 volt reading if i took reading between negative battery terminal and S and a reading of 10.7 when cranked.

So something is not right.

here is video i followed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMXENKujYtc


here is a quick test from battery negative to S wire in connection to relay. Does this make sense? Ignition is off.

https://ibb.co/XxYLVg8

*Touring Ted* 13 Jan 2022 14:25
Starter relays are often problems.

You could simply bypass it altogether. You could 'jump start' the bike using a jumper cable direct from the battery to the starter 12+ terminal.

I'm assuming that the earth strap is connected to the frame and free of corrosion.

stillben 13 Jan 2022 14:31
earth strap
 
just to be on certain, where might the earth strap be? :D

always had problems with relays for the last 5 years since buying bike.

can anyone recommend a good relay?

just tried jumping it. amid all the sparks the starter seemed a little keener.

xtrock 13 Jan 2022 15:02
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillben (Post 625435)
Hi all





I have connected my battery to the post on the starter to rule out a bad wire from the starter and still same slow crank.



Ben
You already ruled out problems with relay connecting direct, with a current transformer plier you measure amps starter consum, measure voltage its not what you are looking for. Ground is from battery. This correct for yours? https://www.ebay.com/itm/11477028361...0AAOSwuUBgeo0r

xtrock 13 Jan 2022 15:57
I dont get this, do you live alone in a cave in the mountains? Must be someone with a car nearby, use jumper cables and connect direct on starter motor to find out whats wrong. Itsa 1hour job to find problem here, must be someone who can help you, no progress from 9dec.

stillben 13 Jan 2022 17:02
caveman
 
I could ask neighbours but don't fancy that one little bit, new to the town really so don't know, this is southern england so people don't bend over backwards getting to know someone new.

Not sure i'd want to risk pulling a battery out on a new car anyway, might trip out some security thing then i'd have to run around sorting that out with them breathing down my neck.

thanks for your interest and suggestions but please ignore these postings if my lack of progress is frustrating you. if i don't post, people get curious so it seems rude not to. would like to resolve this then will post how.

i have found a company 15 miles away who will collect and have a go if it comes to it but that is worse case as that could be many hundreds of pounds and a nasty sense of dread in the duration they have it.

xtrock 13 Jan 2022 17:48
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillben (Post 625516)
I could ask neighbours but don't fancy that one little bit, new to the town really so don't know, this is southern england so people don't bend over backwards getting to know someone new.

Not sure i'd want to risk pulling a battery out on a new car anyway, might trip out some security thing then i'd have to run around sorting that out with them breathing down my neck.

thanks for your interest and suggestions but please ignore these postings if my lack of progress is frustrating you. if i don't post, people get curious so it seems rude not to. would like to resolve this then will post how.

i have found a company 15 miles away who will collect and have a go if it comes to it but that is worse case as that could be many hundreds of pounds and a nasty sense of dread in the duration they have it.
Only thing that is frustrating is that you cant get help, you dont need to pull out battery, cable is enough and iam sure postman pat can give you power. All your answear comes if you spin startermotor correct speed with enough amp. If you want to keep struggling from the wrong end its fine by me, good luck!

stillben 9 Feb 2022 09:46
lastly...
 
Switched the relay with the one listed above, thanks xtrock, and manipulated the sub-wire from relay to loom, which wasn't beeping across the red wire very well but then got a spark which was good and consistent for the first time in months.

Tried getting another 4pt-82509-00, but seems everywhere sold out, even Japan. Would like to replace this as it doesn't clip into the relay well. Can't find the right size with connector suppliers in the UK.

At that point gave up and got it picked up and within a couple of hours mechanic said it was blocked pilot jet and weak battery. So got a branded battery this time, not buying cheap again. Spins up well and starts immediately.

Now it is running good. Thanks for your assistance!

N67 9 Feb 2022 10:08
nice to know good updates at 2 months' anniversary ( :


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