XT600 suspension.....
 

Hi All,

I just purchased a new to me '85 XT600 with only 7200km's on it. I like the price, and the bike genre seems to be well liked except for the soft suspension and the small tank. A Clarke tank can fix the later issue, but what about the suspension?

I want the bike to be capable off road, not mushy. I've had a DR350P with modified suspension before, and I liked it.

I know there are a lot of suspension options for this bike, but I have a few questions:

1) Will a similar year TT600 linkage help the rear suspension? Do i need the TT shock if I change the linkage?
2) Should i instead just rebuild the stock shock and use a new spring, if so what rate? I weigh 210lbs.
3) Works shock? Other?
4) Racetech emulator for the fork?
5) Substitute a fork from another newer bike? They are cheap on ebay...anyone done this on a XT or TT?
6) Just add new oil and seals for the fork? New stiffer springs? Again, what rates? Oil viscosity?

does anyone know the differences between the tt600 and xt600 suspension? The fiches say there are......is it worth it to change over?

I want the bike to handle in such a way that it instils confidence and is not twitchy or washing out, i.e. no big negative traits. This is not a racebike, but it should be fun.

Thoughts?

ciao for now.....jimmy

Hi Jimmy

I can't help you with question 1,2 and 3 as I have not done any mods to the rear suspension.

For the forks I fitted Hagon springs (Start rate is 4kg/cm and end rate is 7kg/cm.) but I removed them as they where to stiff and I could feel every bump in the road. I then had some emulators made, the emulators have made a big difference when going over potholes and hitting rocks. The bike also tracks a lot better when riding on loose gravel and going through thick sand.

Hope this helps.

Yamaha susp. tuning
 

1985 XT with 7200 km? are you sure? You mean engine rebuild, or the whole bike made in 1985 has only 7200 km? If correct probably shock should be fully working.

Anyway

1) TT linkage swap will have no predictable positive result (and is probably not possible at all)

2) Consider that these bikes are build to be used also with two passengers, so 210 lbs is not too much. You could use a stiffer spring (for the rate, you will surely find good advice from sellers like KEDO - Performance Products) but consider the risk of having a bike not usable offroad.Anyway, you should check the rear sag on your bike to understand if you need to change spring.

3) The usual hint on these bikes is to get a used shock from Ohlins, model YA2201 (the one used on Yamaha TTs600 model) that can be adapted with small modifications. Find it used for 200\250 euros, then have it rebuild (if needed) for other 100\150. The problem is that they are very rare on ebay... The shock must have eyelet top and down. TTR models (eyelet up, fork link down) can be adapted only spending other 150 euros.

Hi mate, Myself and a mate did the west coast of africa on XT600E's and had to uprate the front and rear suspension as the standard was saggy as hell. I'm pretty sure we fitted hagon srings to the front which were fine, but we couldn't find anywhere that uprated the rear so in the end I took the rear spring out, sent it to a local spring maker (just a generic engineering spring maker rather than a bike guy), asked him to make one with another 30% added. A week and 40 quid later I had a 2 new springs that were absolutely spot on for the 10,000 miles of abuse that we gave them.
Its always worth thinking a laterally to some of these probs. Good luck regardless.

Hi,

I found myself in this situation too, I want better suspension on my XT. I read about RaceTech emulators, but I couldn't find a model for the XT 600. Where did you get your emulators from? And did you also change the springs with the Hagon progressive ones? What about oil viscosity with the emulators installed? 10W or 15W?

Did any of you use the Hagon rear shock? Does it improve performance significantly? Any info if it's worth buying it (275pounds) would help:

Hagon Monoshock

Thanks a bunch!
Adrian

Jimmy, what mods did you do so far and what was the result?

To all: Do you know if a front fork from a different bike can be easily adapted? I am thinking of an upside down fork from an enduro bike (WR, EXC, XT, etc).

One more question for you guys. I found a TT rear shock. Do you think that it will fit a 2001 XT 600 E? What's your thoughts on how it looks?

1983 1984 TT600 REAR SHOCK TT XT 600 XT600 83 84:eBay Motors (item 220411870255 end time Jun-08-09 18:15:58 PDT)

Thanks,
Adrian

thats a very early tt shock and probably needs a full rebuild $$$?, plus you will need to make provision for the remote resevoir on that one.

About the fork swap.......

I have been keeping quiet on this project as it's not 100% completed yet. I had to work this out on my own as I made the same inquiries as you and came up mostly blank.

The following might be of value to you. might not. But you paid nothing for it so take it FWIW.

Do I have pictures? yes. Do I have the computer savy to post them here? Not a chance! I would gladly e-mail some if someone wanted/had the skills to make them show up here.

I love riding my old xt but modern dirty bikes are in my stable as well and being spoiled by modern suspension was the inspiration for upgrading the old girl.

I chose conventional right side up forks. Astetically(sp?) I feel they suit the bike better. The maintence periods/costs are less than associated with an upsidedown design. If you need the very latest tech forks on an xt, you are throwing a big $$$$ solution at a turd. A very likeable turd, but a turd none the less.
Most Importantly! In the case of the DRZ conventional fork I used. It has a lengthy surface area on the upper fork leg to which you can clamp the tripple trees. If you look at a lot of fork swap projects on the internet they often appear like choppers in photos. Basically the forks on the modern bikes are all longer than what is required on the XT. This badly affects handling in many ways. Let's not get into this subject or possiable solutions here. The lengthly clamping surface mentioned above allows you to slide the forks up in the tripple trees returning the bike to it's proper ride height and hopefully wheel base. Vastly improving it's handling traits.
The problem with many upsidedown forks is the upper tubes are tapered and the useable clamping surface is small, not allowing enough adjustment as required by the xt's shorter stature. This problem and many other are solvable but typically will cost serious dollars to fix.

Rather than adapt a bunch of stuff from different bikes I basically used all DRZ hardware. Brake, wheel, fork, tripple tree, stem. The forks I have, contain racetech one step up from stock springs which I had on hand. They perform well with the added weight of a heavier bike but I have not ridden the machine enough to know if they are required or not.

Many things need dooing but are basically simple jobs.
Welding new steering stops
New bearings Stock on bottom(nice tapered roller), modified(less than perfect but durable enough on top.)
Spacers to mount up headlight frame to new tripple tree
Figure out what you are going to do for ign switch mounting
front brake line routing
Steering lock (I have none)
Speedo solution(I have an aftermarket digital)
A couple of spacers here and there for the steering neck.

Please note I also have Dr Big's up and foreward bar risers on my bike. Without this modification I would not be able to move the fork tubes up enough to return the bike to the correct (stock ride height) The tubes would bump into the bottom of the handlebars otherwise. If you go to thumpertalk and search DR Big risers you will get a million hits on them. If riding a DRZ with this modification you will never consider going back to stock. They are awesome. If you have the skills to make your own. Do it.

The results from this project have been teriffic. Vastly improved suspension action. Stiffer front under braking loads. And improved braking force. I have put in about 750 Km of off pavement riding and have experienced no evil suspension traits to date. There is no where to hide bad susp. traits in off pavement riding, they will show their ugly head! But not enough testing has been done yet for me to give it the full thumbs up.

The problem created is the 25yr old rear end on the xt seems that much worse. Please spill if you have good solutions to this problem.:thumbup1:

I'm no expert mechanic or suspension tech but pulled off this mod sucessfully. So can you.

A final note of caution:
I have learned that suspension geometry is both an art and a science. Changing stuff, wheel base, ride height, trail, rake, fork offset, axel location, can go horribly wrong and will be very expensive to make right.
If straying far from what the OEM's have figured out for the machine. You are proabably going the wrong way. They have done the math!
Each bike and fork combo must be carefully considered to end up with a workable solution.

The experts will laugh but basically I eyeballed most of the variables discussed above (in side by side comparisons of parts)and applied my very crude understanding of suspension. To this I threw a bunch of cheap parts sourced from fleabay. I rolled the dice on this project and think I won.

An underlying principal was, always be able return the bike to stock if I messed up. No permanent changes were made before I could road test the machine. If it didn't work out I would just flog the parts for little to no loss.

The bike is a 1986 xt 600 NAm. model, 43F for the euros (note: early xt=longer travel susp. than later bikes). The front end parts came from a 2003 Suzuki DRZ 400s.

Have Fun,
Pawlie

rear shock
 

ekkemu: no, can't use an early TT shock, it's too long (43 against 39). The ideal is get a Ohlins from a Yamaha TT600s (see herehttp://www.rallye-tenere.net/Stamb_tt_600_s-e.htm), it's a plug and play (almost) work. An ohlins from a TTR600 will need a lower joint change to fit in your bike. Probably you will need an harder spring too..

Pawlie yes it is posible to screw up the handling of the bike by going far away from the oem set up but it is also possible to improve it a hell of a lot too, the basic designs of these bikes are over 20yrs old and the tech has come a long way since.

i'm running an usd front end and a custom rear set up which has made the bike handle the bumps and corner far better than the oem setup.

Wolfzero,
Please tell us about the mods you have done.

Preferably with practical information we can apply to our own projects. I'm particularly interested in the rear of the bike, as I have the front working quite well.

Pawlie

i dont know if my mods would work so well on an off road bike as i've supermoto'd mine.

the front is WP forks off an early ktm with the yokes off a late model ktm650 to allow the fitting of a lighter alloy wheel off a yam yzf600 fitted with a R1 brake disk the caliper is a tokico 4 piston caiper off a 1999 gsxr750.
the bars are magura fat bars and the oe clocks and headlight have been replaced with a digi dash and accerbis headlight.

the rear is a heavily modified R6 swing arm which is slightly longer than the original, the rear shock is off a ttr unfortunatly not the ohlins model but it is far better than the oe xt600 one.
the rear wheel is also of a yzf600 and the caliper is the other tokico 4 piston caiper off a 1999 gsxr750 a bit of overkill but it was easier to use the pair of calipers as i only need to keep one set of pads in stock :thumbup1:

kedo.de sells Wilbers shocks and you have a 320 EUR option for the one which is stepless adjustable in spring preload but no rebound adjustment and a 420 EUR option for the one which is stepless adjustable in spring preload and rebound in 22 step. They will also fit a spring according to your "ready-to-ride" weight. From what I understand, they are made for the XT, so it's plug-and-play.

Hi Ekkemu

I had the emulators made at a local machine shop. They are cheap and easy to make. If you give me an e-mail address I will send you a drawing so you can have them made anywhere that has got a lathe.

Regards
Philip

can you mail drawings to me too? cyberzar at hotmail dot com

Thnx!

Hei everybody,

I am back again with some fresh info and questions :) About the rear now. Because swaping the forks might be problematic for several reason, out of which one is the length of the new forks (I have a pair of KTM 640 enduro forks in my garage and they are about 4,5 cm longer than the XT's). You can slide them a little through the triple clamps, but they will hit the handlebar, so that's not enough play there. However, I found a device that raises the rear of the bike and this, together with raising the front a little, would mean somewhat the same geometry, isn't it? And also more ground clearance!

So, what do you guys think about this? Is it risky, does it look ok to you? I found it on ebay.de for 35 EUR.

http://ekkemu.tla.ro/Pics/xt_rear01.JPG

http://ekkemu.tla.ro/Pics/xt_rear02.JPG


http://ekkemu.tla.ro/Pics/xt_rear03.JPG

raising the rear to match the front may give you the same rake but the ktm forks woud give a different trail, plus raising the rear with that spacer will alter the way the swingarm linkage works and jacking the rear that way will shorten the distance between axle and pivot points.

if you read what i wrote erlia you will see that i had to extend the rear. even though my bike is supermoto'd and is fitted with 17" wheels i've had to do a lot of work to make the bike handle correctly.

Yes, I read what you wrote ... so you are suggesting that instead of that spacer I'd better use a longer rear shock? What if I change the spring on mine, will this make the situation better, i.e. raise the rear of the bike? I would love to also raise the bike a little with this mod if possible as it does not really have a big ground clearance (compared to the ktm 640 Adv for instance).

What are the essentials that need to be kept regarding the geometry in order not to screw up the bike handling?

Hey, I've got that higher-thingy from ebay.

It raises the ass pretty much, I'll guess 6-8cm.

Im about 2 meters tall, and it's allmost to high for me. I can stand on the ground fine, but when im riding on a path og generally offroad, I want to be able to push away with my feet, and i can barely do that.

My buddy has got som picturesof my xt, comparede to a stock one.

I'll upload them as soon as i get them.

i'm using a longer swing arm, my rear ttr shock is the same length as the xt600.
any shock change will alter the properties and geometry of the suspension.

it all depends on the intended use of the bike which way you want to go mine is set up for road use only so the ground clearance is not an issue.

if you want a lot more ground clearance buy a different bike the xt600 is not a motocross or dirt bike its a trail bike

altering the rake and trail will have a major difference in how it steers, in simple terms rake alters how quick it turns and trail alters stability.

Everyone told me that it would handle and steer very poor, when it was raised.

I cant feel anything different.

i'm only guessing here but if you're 2m tall you will be heavier than somebody thats 1.85m so you would actually compress the suspension more keeping it nearer to the factory set up so not compromising the geometry.

it also depends on the usage dirt gives tarmac doesn't.

Thanks for your reply wolfzero. I am intending to use my XT for trail riding, but I compared it side by side with a 640 KTM Adv and the difference in ground clearance is pretty big, both being bikes for the same purpose.

Anyway, I got the point and I understood what you explained, I think I'll hold on that riser thingy for now.

@Jens: Can you upload some photos, please? Did you change the rear shock? What other mods did you do to the bike? How much do you weigh?


I did some more measurements and I have a new question. The USD fork from a KTM that I have in my garage, would almost fit (with a changed 18 inch back rim, I think it will balance just fine), but there is one thing that I am concerned about. To make it fit to the XT frame, the distance between the 2 triple clamps has to be reduced by aprox 5cm. Would this impact the overall performance of the fork? Is there any danger of a serious mistake here? I am thinking that the forks being 43mm (i.e. thicker than the XT's) they might indeed need a longer distance between the triple clamps to hold them right, but ... again, I might be wrong. What's your opinion on this? The horizontal distance between the centers of the clamps (XT vs KTM) is the same.

the xt design is 20yrs old and the ktm is 5yrs old so the improved ground clearance over the xt is only to be expected.

the headstock depth is the least of your worries when swapping that front end the wheel spacing is different, brakes and caliper too and the upper headrace bearing is not going to work with those yokes.

Yes, I know that caliper, brakes and bearing fittings (I can take the low triple clamp to a machinist that has a lathe and will make it to fit inside the bearing - it has been done by others, so it's possible) will be a pain too, but all of them can be handled, they are doable jobs (even if in the end I am going to use a KTM caliper, wheel, disk brake).

Regarding your earlier remark with the trail that will be changed. Can you please clarify a bit on this part? I read an article here:

Motorcycle Rake and Trail Basics

And from what I imagine, if the angle of the new fork will be the same with the angle of the old one, the trail will be the same (having the same angle can be done by raising the rear of the bike). Am I wrong about this?


Thanks,
Adrian

ktm axle position is diff than the xt affecting trail and the yokes are also diff affecting rake angles maybe fitting taller risers and lower profile bars will allow more adjustment through dropping the forks through more.

Aham, good point with the axle position, indeed. Hmm, ok, I'll have to sleep on it for a while.

Have you seen this?

XT-660 'Rally Raid'

My 2pennies!!

I've put the whole front suspension,wheel,brakes,everything off a 2002 YZ250 and I just have to make some steering stoppers and weld them to the frame.

I don't know yet how it will handle because I haven't had a chance to change my leaking the fork seals/wipers but when I do, I will put a heavier fork oil.

If you want to compare the height of the forks with the XT's you'll have to measure from the lower triple clamp BEARING to the middle of the wheel axle and not the whole fork lenght (if you notice the top triple clamp is alot thicker than the stock top tripple clamp!)
And don't forget about the wheel size, if you stick with the 21" or change it to another such as 17"..
If you don't like it with the 21" wheel you can always change to a 20" or even a 19".. it's your choice!

BTW, I'm going to make some extra changes on my 90 XT600E so I'll start a new thread, I don't want to hijack this one :)


Have fun riding!

Vando :innocent:

Hei Vando, by all means, feel free to contribute to this one, or if you chose to open a new thread, at list post the link here too.

Good point there with the lenght measurement!

Hey there!
:oops2: I've made a new thread a few days ago: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...00e-mods-43008

But anyway, here is my latest news lol
Bought a All Balls Fork Dust Seal kit for my new forks for 31.50$

AND I've just bought a couple of hours ago a 2006 YZ250F swingarm for 45$ + 15$ for s/h... a real bairgain!!!

I will be looking for a 1999-2009 YZ/WR 125/450 rear wheel hub.. Yamaha OEM part# 5ET-25311-00-00

If anyone one has a good one hanging around in the garage just let me know and make me an offer :P

Vando :innocent:

@Vando. Man, you're in some serious mods there on your topic. Too f***ing hardcore for me :P

Well, let me tell you what I have decided with my XT's suspension:

Front: I won't swap the fork, because a fork that has a larger diameter won't fit because of the 23L Acerbis tank (when I turn the handlebar at maximum, this one has 1,2 mm left, and the 43mm or 48mm fork has also a thicker triple clamp...). What I will do, is change the springs with progressive ones for now, and that's it, cause I don't have any info on where I can get some emulators...

Rear: for now, I will fit a progressive spring. Hyperpro makes them (however, their customer service skills pretty suck) and hopefully I can get a stiffer one (they have a kit with fork springs + shock spring + oil at about 200 EUR).
Wilbers can deliver a rear shock that increses the height of the bike with up to 40mm (and it's plug and play, no mods necessary), so this part is very easy, but I will consider it in the future only.


Cheers!
Adrian

ekkemu is it only on full lock where the accerbis tank clearance is an issue post a pic with some measurements and i'll do a comparison to the ktm yokes i have on my bike, i used the widest i could find to give more clearance due to using yzf600 wheels which have wider hubs so if mine still clear the tank the yz or wr yokes should be narrower and still give enough clearance.

i just posted more pics on my super moto xt600e thread which shows the front end a bit more clearly.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...xt600e-43298-2

Hi Guys,

I have a questions and hope somebody can help me. We are going on a trip to south east asia in january and I found a 2002 Yamaha XT600 for my wife. Does anybody know if I can get a lowering kit for this bike? She can get her foot on the ground but for the trip I defenetly have to lower it a bit. What is the best solution and where can I get the stuff?

Thanks a lot

Mario

Hi Mario

I've recently fitted a KEDO lowering kit to my XT600 2003 year bike.
It needs some minor work on the linkage to fit and I would suggest
taking the opportunity to check/grease your suspension
bearings at the same time.

Not been off road with it yet but on road handling and suspension
is great so I'm confident off roading will be as good.:thumbup1:

Both front and rear suspension is lowered and you get a part for
the side stand adjustment - well recommended.


Neil


Look for http://www.kedo.com/ssl/grafic/Design/hgr_s.gif
50223 -35mm Lowering Kit (Vehicle Type Approval)

A few pics of a moded 84 tt600
 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4010/...2f8f90f1_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/...17840567_b.jpg

This bike is so very nice off road and on And have had a lot of experience with different bikes.
So you can turn a dinosaur into a tiger.

more of suspension pics
 

The donor bike was a 1997 Honda CR500 with newer Showa forks from a 2001 CR 250.
The job took several evenings (2 weeks worth) to complete
A tig welder and lathe were needed to accomplish.
I got fairly lucky with the the actual work necessary to complete as there are many interchangeable bearings and and such with the Honda
Essentially all the Honda stuff worked way easier than I had imagined.
All the suspension is from the Honda including rims, brakes, swing arm, linkage, triple clamps ECT...
The following pictures show what is possible with some fab skills and a little imagination.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/...e55e7a1e_b.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2767/...f0b27ac1_b.jpghttp://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/...0954c103_b.jpghttp://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/...71d7a325_b.jpghttp://http://farm5.static.flickr.co...aa439cbf_b.jpg

xt600 emulators
 

Hi guys, yes i know this thread is old, but did anyone ever get any drawings for fork emulators for the tenere?

if so, do you want to share the wisdom.
Regards
Dave O

The YSS shock is EXCELLENT!!! I also modified the stock forks by welding 2 out of the 4 oil holes on the damper rods shut... this gives you much better dampening. Also you need to install the Progressive springs... the bike will be night and day!

May I suggest that instead of trying to re-engineer a suspension that you give Ted Porter a call or email. He is at Ted Porter's BeemerShop - Welcome. He is a suspension expert and can supply YSS or Wilbers shocks for your XT600.

I have just ordered a new shock and new front springs for my USA model 1986 XT600. He can supply front fork springs to match the rear shock setup. This is an engineered solution. If you get the shock with compression and rebounding adjustment it all comes with a remote reservoir and complete setup instructions.

This method is NOT cheap, around 1000 US dollars but will transform the bike. As soon as I get mine setup I'll report here and other forums. I will include part numbers as well but if you go with Ted Porter, he will assist you in getting it right. He will usually call you after you have emailed him with your order request. :mchappy:

Look at the testimonials page and you will see what I mean about good service.

Émulator For 2kf
 

Hi all
I m looking for a drawing to manufacture an emulator for my 2kf
Can amyone help ?

Emulator for 2 kf
 

Hi Philip ,
can you Shane your emulator drawing With me ?
Regards

Thierry

He has not logged in since 2009, i suggest you send him a PM.

Mezo.