XT600 or DR650 which is the best for long distance travel?
 

As the title says which of those 2 is the best bike for long distance travel?

In.....

Tarmac and gravel.
Fuel economy.
Suspension reaction original or aftermarket.
In loading travel gear.
Motor reability.
Handling.
Vibrations.

Xt600 or the Dr650?

:confused1:

don't know much about the xt. doesn't it have dual carbs? if so, i'd stay away.

i've been the dr for several years. longest day was about 200km. with the suzuki gel seat i was fine. the dr is truly bullet proof. it will need some work to make it truly adventure rideable, at least imho.

Just my two cents about the DR650 as experienced in a 9 months Africa trip:

-capable to do tarmac and gravel once you got used to the hard seat. Was really surprised where the bike would go in terms of off-road or no-road
-fuel economy pretty constant 5l/100km, accepts fuel down to 85 octane
-original suspension is very soft. Changed my springs to heavier ones. Very happy with the change
-motor reliability: now done 60000km with no issues. Still first clutch, still not burning oil. No issues at all.
-since I was newbie in biking at the start I dropped the bike a few times. Suppose it's not a problem of how the bike handles but how the newbies can handle it. Bike handling takes a big hit though if you use a long range tank and fill it up to the top.
-vibrations: no issues at all, even on long day rides

as a follow up to marco's post, the DR is an animal off-road. yes it's heavy and it wallows, but damn if it doesn't pull like a tractor up hills! i only started riding of road in mid 2009. i learned on a dr. i've dropped mine probably 100 times. never a peep. only trouble you may have is the carb flooding if you leave it on its side for a bit. just let it sit for a minute and it starts right up.

last year i got cut off by a taxi and ran into him. my right ankle is screwed forever--literally and figuratively--https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75910162/leg2.jpgbut the dr suffered no damage save a couple of war wounds (scratches). in fact, it stayed running in third gear while i crawled with a busted ankle.

read up on ride reports of guys that have gone round the world on dr's. you can't go wrong.

"Jammin through the Global south" Had great successes with the DR.
Jammin thru the Global South - ADVrider

"2 moto kiwis".. not so much good times with the DR. They scrapped both DRs for a KTM 950SE.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ntarctic-65500

Muztoo has had great luck renting XTs.

Both are great bikes. Leaps and bounds ahead of a KLR.

Having owned and ridden both these bikes over a good number of years, I think I'm qualified to give an opinion.

BOTH these bikes are capable of doing what you want but the Yamaha has a much much wider following.

BOTH bikes are excellent machines.

The Yamaha XT600 series of bikes clearly have the edge though, Just go and have a look at the Yamaha (XT600) sub-forum which is by far the most used place on this forum.

In terms of pedigree - The Yamaha is out in front by a long distance.

The Yamaha XT600 is THE most widely used budget RTW trial bike on earth. Anyone who states otherwise is talking kak.

I have also had both and prefer the DR650. The XT in my opinion is more top heavy. The DR is more nimble for me to handle. Both good bikes. I suggest you find each bike and test ride.

In this week im going to check this XT600E.

http://s16.carcdn.gr/4033/4033105_2_b.jpg

Is 99' model with 40000km (24850 miles).
The price is 1400 euros (debatable)...

If runs ok i ll take it..:thumbup1:

In the UK, EXCELLENT/MINT condition Yamaha XT600E's are becoming very rare indeed.

Their prices are rising every day.

I have seen late (2003) low mileage minters being sold by dealers for £2,300!

Average condition bikes are selling for up to £1,500.

Dogs are being sold for £800!

A low mileage mint Yamaha XT600 makes an excellent investment for the future. Their prices can only ever go one way - UPWARDS. :thumbup1:

The Yamaha XT600E will slowly disappear exactly the same as the lovely little XT350 disappeared in the 1990's. They will be RTW to death.

The Yamaha XT legend (all models) will never be forgotten though. :D

:thumbup1:
Did you own a post 1996 DR650? (SE model) Gray market DR650? No new DR's for sale in UK since before 1996, IIRC.
Pre '96 is a very different bike. Avoid.

True and certainly true in UK. But time marches on. The DR650 has had a major upsurge in popularity in last 5 to 7 years ... but of course not in England. But in US and Oz, DR's are on the march. The XT's are excellent bikes (by most accounts). But the DR is no slouch either. No one beats bikes harder than the Ozzies.

True, very popular on HUBB ... but UK numbers represent a small fraction of bikes out there traveling worldwide.
The DR650 has been for sale in the USA since the 80's. The SE model, since 1996. About 2000 Suzuki dealers in US, about 5000 to 10,000 new DR650's have been sold yearly since then. Sales are currently at all time high for DR650's. (in US)

You can find DR650 info on the BIG DR650 thread in the Thumpers section of ADV Rider (84,000 posts, 15 million views)
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135295

Also check out the DR Riders forum, DR650 specific:
www.DRRiders.com

Why is that? I've not ridden an XT600 since the mid 90's, not intimate with it's technical details, possible updates ... why and HOW is it "out in front" of the DR650?

Funny, I've only seen a few XT's out there lately ... but I don't follow every forum and mostly stick to Latin America. I have seen some XT's on Africa trips ... but are they still a 1st choice for travelers?

There have been quite a few DR650 ride reports going ... many travelers come here to California, buy a bike, and head South. Typically they buy a KLR or DR650. Not many XT's to be had as they haven't been imported to the USA since 1990. :(
Here are a few more ride reports from ADV Rider starring DR650SE:

No Jobs, No Responsibilities, No Better Time then Now - ADVrider
Big Al Smith and buddy crashing DR's all the way to Argentina!

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...50+Baja&page=3
Jedi Master S. America - epic pics!

Alaska to Argentina - N69S54A - ADVrider
Lars from Joberg (girl friend riding DR650)

South for a while… maybe longer - ADVrider
Air Borne Andy -raced Baja 1000 on his DR650!!! :smartass:

San Francisco to South America, eventually - ADVrider
evermore

Travellin' Troz - How NOT to travel to South America - ADVrider
Girl Friend on DR/Husband on KLR

Trails of North America...a photo journal - ADVrider
JediMaster N. America - more great pics - Jedi Master sold his DR650 with about 75K miles on clock. Now riding a DRZ400S.

tuckers to tdf - ADVrider
Couple from San Diego, CA, riding South ... now in progress.

Prairies To Penguins Alberta to Argentina - ADVrider
Ride in progress now.

Several more ride reports featuring DR650's ... just got to dig them up.

As mentioned ... BOTH are great choices, cheap to buy maintain, tough and reliable.

bier

My ancient tenere has got me around Europe on I think 3 occasions now without any problems..yes I've had to due some repairs before setting off but some of these things are 30 years old now.
Are some of the current newer models still going to be working in 30 years time or even viable to repair?..

From today this xt600 is mine hope to get it ready for my trip the Pamirs...I am very happy new toy to my garage next to my varadero...

Safe kilometers to all.

zandesiro from Greece.

Maybe in the UK, Not quite sure if you've been out of Europe lately or seen how many DR650's are around, North America, Australia and most of Asia still get to buy new DR650's

Maybe out of the box the XT had slightly better suspension than the DR, but both bikes need suspension work for an RTW.

Ive ridden a couple of old XT's in the UK and owned a few Yamahas in my time, the XT600 airbox is possibly the worst designed POS Ive seen on what is supposed to be a 'Trail' bike, using a very small flat car type paper air filter in a highly restrictive airbox. At higher altitudes the XT dies with a lack of air getting to the carbs.

The XT is water cooled and heavier, but doesn't produce any more power than the DR, the XT wheels are steel and are not very tough.

Im not talking 'Kak"

I can also buy a brand new DR650 in Canada for 3500 GBP, spend about 500 GBP on suspension upgrades, a new seat and a jet kit for the carb and end up with a far better bike than an XT. I think 4000 GBP for a well sorted BRAND NEW bike is damn good value - and so do lots of other people.

The range of aftermarket parts for the DR is also huge, so if you want to turn the DR into a 790 fire breathing supermoto with fuel injection you can, if you wish to turn it into a great overlander you can, with great products from Keintech and Procycle.

Obviously the XT600 is well out of production, if we want to compare like for like, the new XT660 produces more power with its fuel injected engine and in stock trim is a better bike than the stock DR. I think its safe to say if you looking for a NEW bike and are in Europe/Russia buy the XT660 or even better the XT660Z, elsewhere the DR650 rules. If you are in Australia/NZ then you get to choose either!!!

Anyway, I see the OP has managed to pick up an XT600, enjoy!.

the xt 600 is air cooled mate

XR600E. Rode one all over south America. It's a budget bike. Very simple.. Will do ANYTHING.. A bit lighter than the DR so I believe . More 'trail' than the DR650. However it's got crap budget suspension and it doesn't like going over 65mph.

DR650SE (post 96). Never owned one but travelled with people with them.. Faster on the road and engine has a balancer making it smoother.. A bit heavier though. Also a great bike.

I think I'd rather have the DR650SE if those were the only choice.


Given the choice in that 'range' though...

I'd have a Honda XR650L....

Oh, I do...... :mchappy:

I'm getting confused, its an age thing :helpsmilie:

Crossing S. America on your XT is certainly gives major cred for the strength and reliability of the bike. :thumbup1:
I think both bikes (DR and XT) are basic budget bikes. The difference is that the DR650SE got a total, 100% re-make in 1996. Oddly, the "new" DR had less HP than previous gen, but was a bit lighter weight and MUCH stronger (new frame).

Most important up grade the DR got was the Suzuki SACS Air/Oil cooling system, developed for their racing GSXR's of that era. I have never heard of a DR650SE overheating or sustaining damage from heat or oil break down. The Oil cooler on the DR is mounted out of the way with a factory guard protecting it. The system provides two oil pumps, one specifically to squirt oil jets up under the piston to cool the head. IT WORKS! :thumbup1:

The balancer equipped DR is quite smooth for a big single. You can easily cruise comfortably at 75 mph ... for 10 hours a day in required. Done it. The motor is "loafing" at that RPM.
Top speed is about 95 to 100 mph.

The XT's, AFAIK, never got major upgrades since 1990 or so. They are simply air cooled (don't think they have an oil cooler??). The XT-E was discontinued in 2004. Importation to US of the XT600E stopped in '95 (I think?) I rode one in Baja in the late 80's and found it better than the '87 Honda XL600R I was on. (more stable, easier in deep sand)

The DR650SE is actually lighter weight than the XT600E ... at least according to supplied OEM DRY weight figures.

Suzuki list DR650SE at 324 lbs.DRY (147 kgs.) the XT is listed at 343 lbs. (155 kgs.) The XT weights vary year to year, most list it heavier if you go back into the 1990's. True wet weight of the DR650SE is 367 lbs.(166 kgs) with full 3.4 US gal. tank. True wet weight of XT? Dunno ... but thinking it's very close to the DR?

Couple other things that put the DR out front of the XT are Forks and swing arm. The KYB 43mm damper rod fork on the DR have potential. But it's BIG size means it's not half bad just swapping in heavier springs. Mine has Race Tech emulators and is stellar.

Same with the swing arm. The BIG beefy ALU swing arm on the DR means good handling both ON and OFF road. Better stability, traction and durability. Not sure if XT swing arm is steel or ALU ??? ... but it looks quite spindly compared to DR Alu swing arm ... clearly from an earlier time.

The DR is not free of some problems. The big one is the rare failure of 3rd gear, which can take out the whole motor. This is rare but has happened.
(about 1% of bikes) Wheel bearings also need to be watched. That's about it.

Like any bike it needs suspension help. Also needs a "real" seat and better lighting. Wheels are strong as Hell, frame and sub frame too with very few documented failures. Many thousands of DR's out there NOW with over 50,000 miles and climbing.

Aftermarket support is now stronger than ever for this bike. Used bike prices have risen but good used, low mileage examples ... from 2004 to 2010 can be found in the $3000 to $4000 USD range. Not bad really.

Typical set up for DR650 for travel:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-w...0/DSCN0364.jpg

no worries as long as you can ride a bike you are still in good health

Originally Posted by kentfallen http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...s/viewpost.gif
The Yamaha XT600 is THE most widely used budget RTW trial bike on earth. Anyone who states otherwise is talking kak

So nice to see my langauge being used on the otherside of the ball

Cheers boere!

Old XT's rule, must give the DR some credit

I have riden a xt600 RTW and traveled with DRs they are both strong reliable bikes. Basically it's down to were you live and what is available . Just get the best condition low mile bike you can and they will both do the job

I am going to angree with you.You are right!

I search for an XT and a DR here in Greece.I find a lot of XTs but only 4-5 DRs.
A lot of parts here in my country for the XT but not much for the DR.
So, i choose to buy an XT.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...distance-40838

thread started by me on 14 Feb 2009.

We are very close komsi, and nearly have the same market.

I also decided to buy an XT600E (2003)

Just fit my alu cases to get an idea how the xt is gonna look like!

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...psca66b05d.jpg

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/...psc284c406.jpg

I think is ok!

Without trying to sound like the harbinger of doom... I think like most other people (me included), who have fitted big cases to small dirt bikes; you will end up regretting it.. And eventually swapping them for smaller, lighter soft bags.

The bikes are just too small and the weight too unbalanced for such luggage. They handle like utter crap on the road and off-road, an utter nightmare. Especially on a bike like the XT600 which has VERY poor quality suspension to start with.

Add the fact that you've just added two massive wind break sails to the side of a 38bhp bike and now you're riding an old donkey.

I recommend filling them up (realistically) and then adding the rest of your luggage and testing it properly.. Then beg, borrow or steal some soft bags and try again. Maybe you will get on just fine with them. Best to know now then on your trip.

I put £1000 of Metal Mules on my XT600E... They didn't last long. Replaced with £100 soft bags which were better in EVERY way.


Anyway... Just my 2p worth. Not trying to start a hard Vs soft debate.. doh

Ted i have thinking a lot to go with soft panniers but my budget is not to much....I have a lot of time in front so i wil search for a second hand soft-bags or something cheaper!

It's true. Ted has it spot on. :thumbup1:
Not only will the bike handle poorly ... but of more concern is the extra stress on the rear sub frame. I've not owned an XT ... so not sure how robust the XT sub frames are. I do know they are designed to carry a pillion, so it's not like a dirt bike ... Still, over time and rough roads something is likely to break. :eek3:

Your mounting racks can crack (where they attach to frame or sub frame) or the sub frame itself can crack. This is a very common problem for overland riders using big hard ALU bags. Even the mighty BMW GS can break racks and sub frames.

The XT is a small and light bike, I doubt the sub frame will last long over rough terrain carrying a full load in big ALU boxes. Constant hammering is very tough on loaded ALU boxes and racks.

Weigh your mounting racks and hardware, and weigh the empty boxes .. you may be surprised at the weight. I'm guessing around 20 kgs. all up?
Soft bags weigh almost nothing and some set ups need no racks.
(like Giant Loop)

I went through this on my DR650. With hard bags on the handling was scary. I was able to help the poor handling some by up grading suspension. But still ... off road the bike was HARD to keep in control on anything technical.

Once I got rid of my hard bags and went to soft ... bike handling was transformed for the good ... much nicer to ride both ON and OFF road. bier

On a budget... Can't beat these.

https://www.silvermans.co.uk/tabid/6...0/Default.aspx

Did me all over Africa. Not waterproof but easy to put gear in cheap waterproof bags.

They're GREAT.

Ted

mollydog, you are right!!

Ted, thank you for your link...Looks very nice...And for the waterproof issue i already have the short 40l Ortlieb bags so everything inside stays dry....:thumbup1:

If you look on eBay you can buy draper small waterproof roll bags. Like small ortliebs for about 7 quid each

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

personal preference
 

I started with soft luggage. Got my 1st set of hard luggage with my XT600. Stayed with hard luggage for more than 10 years on various bikes. Decided to go for soft luggage again. HATED IT!!! Every friggin moment. Going back to hard luggage.

Like I said- personnel preference. BUT...


And I'm sorry to say- it's about the setup of the bike, NOT the luggage that affects the handling most of all. My XT was very stable all the way upto 150km/h. Yes, the Yammie's suspension is crap, but that won't change because you have soft luggage

As for the weight difference- yes they're slightly heavier (not 20kgs- mine weighs in at around 5kg each). And if you're worried about the weight- don't overpack them. If you're worried about the size- make them smaller/slimmer.

few things I like about hard luggage as opposed to soft luggage (personnel opinion):

• more secure as they're lockable
• can use them to sit on, bike stands during repairs, tables etc
• if probably fitted, they can improve poor handling characteristics of your machine
• keep the heavy stuff in the bottom of the panniers and you have a lower center of gravity than with soft luggage
• easier to pick the bike when you drop it (more places to hold on to, bike doesn't 'lie as flat', etc)
• doesn't look like whore's handbag
• generally more watertight and protects your stuff better
• easy to repair (simple ones- not those double-skinned round jobs) and much stronger than soft luggage

This set of panniers on my XT was made by a Suisse guy- all home made allu that can be knocked together in a Saturday for the price of a few pop-rivets, an allu sheet, a few hinges and some silicon. I've had many, many falls with them Transferred them onto various bikes over the years. All-in-all: soft luggage SUCKS :thumbdown:

But just my 2p :innocent:

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/v...838Medium2.jpg

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/v...2192Medium.jpg

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/v...834Medium2.jpg

Good choice. We have 17 of these XT 600E stationed in Osh, Kyrgyzstan, just in case....

Correct ... all about preference and experiences you've had and what you're used to. After ten years on hard bags I'm not surprised you hated soft ones ... we don't like changes much do we? :smartass:

I could quote back reams of Diatribe from Walter Colebatch on this subject ... but everyone's already read his stuff and knows most of his arguments for soft luggage. Must admit, he makes many salient points. :thumbup1:

I've used BOTH hard and soft, but mostly ALL on road riding with hard boxes. On road rides I love hard bags. My first hard bag set up was on my 1981 R100RS. R800GS was next up. Going off road years ago (1970's) bikes could not be fitted with hard bags so it was naturally ALL soft bags. Back then, it was a pain. You had to improvise. Many a soft bag set afire. :eek3: Many soaked contents ... many a case of a bag lost ... somewhere? :confused1:

But times change. (People? Not so much!)

It's all about WEIGHT. Of course, set up is important ... but nothing really mitigates too much weight. If you take weight off, your suspension (even crap stock suspension) has an easier time with LESS of a load. This is pretty obvious, no? :innocent:

Easier said than done for most ... :cool4:
I assume you've weighed up your Boxes, Racks, Hardware? I did, on two different GIVI bag set ups (Box, 8,5 lbs. Ea) ... which are lighter than Alu boxes. Also, the GIVI racks (8 lbs. EA) used are very light weight. Plus six big, long bolts. (2 lbs.)

All up, I reduced my load by 35 lbs. (15 kg) going from Hard to Soft bags. The difference in "feel" on my DR650 was palpable! Amazing!
My soft bags use racks too (small, light weight). Also, the rear cross bar used with Hard box racks is eliminated, and fewer bolts too.

Good you brought up the idea of packing lighter to overcome too much weight. Nice try! ... but that is one of our problems! Travelers tend to FILL UP their hard boxes ... and big boxes hold A LOT of stuff! :rofl:
I am guilty of this too ... FILL IT UP! doh

Smaller and lighter boxes are a great idea! ... and I see yours are very narrow. Nice! Most are huge wide suckers that hold around 40 to 50 liters. :blushing:

I think you left off one principle reason why Hard Bags are better:
They give you a place to display all your travel stickers! :mchappy:

This debate can go on forever. But for me, if riding mostly ON ROAD on my ROAD bike, I'll use hard panniers that came with it. If doing off road or going to 3rd world countries ... riding my Dual Sport DR650 ... it's got to be soft bags.

Soft bags take time to learn how to pack and arrange. Once done, not too bad. Mine have several "Inner" pouches and pockets which helps with stowing small items. Big stuff goes in Inner bags.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t...0/P1010724.JPG
Neat & Tidy for 3 week ride
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Z...07_HT9nn-L.jpg
My "old" set up ... "Whore's Handbag?" Not so much!
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f...0/P1000224.JPG
New set up ... still in development. Neat, Fast, Practical ... and very cheap!

ahhh yes.. This is where those enduro riders, Dakar racers and MX racers are going wrong. They need heavy, square, un-aerodynamic luggage strapped to their bikes.

Someone should stop them wasting MILLIONS on R&D and material sciences trying to make their bikes lighter and more balanced...

:smartass:

Sorry to sound like an argumentative A**hole , but that is one of the craziest things I have ever read. No luggage can make a bike better. You can only do your best to reduce it's bad effects. And that is by keeping it as light, low and central as possible.

Fair dues, and to your credit; that's what you've done... Your boxes are very small and fitted low down and fairly central to the bike. They are the best way to have them. However they are not the 'norm' for that type of luggage. Like said, most strap 30-50L Ammo boxes to their bikes are fat 20kg racks placed high up to accommodate pillions etc.



Arguing hard/soft luggage is like arguing religion and politics...

Try and answer some questions/comments.

Mollydog:

• I still use soft luggage when I go 'seriously' bush or desert because of the safety aspect of getting your legs caught under the boxes- you're absolutely right. I've got some nice scars on my right calf.
• weight: yes I have weighed the, and apart from the cross-member you referred to, there is no significant difference in the frame for my soft/hard luggage. yes the panniers themselves way a few kg more than the soft luggage, but if you want to nit-pick at this scale, why not start comparing different tire brands, thread-patterns and weight saving there? Or how-about different type of stoves/cooking gear and the fuel they use and how you can save 2kg there? I've had 1150Adventure panniers and I know they were quite heavy by comparison, but what I'm saying is: declaring a huge weight difference between soft and hard luggage is just generalizing and not necessarily true. E.g. I've got a bags-connection soft luggage system as well and that weighs more than my home-made allu panniers.
• locks only keep out honest people- but that goes for pac-safe to. i think we generally have to accept that we lock things to make it slightly more difficult/fidly for thieves and remove some of the temptation. And yes- I spent 15 years touring third world countries and the only things I lost was my camera and my boots (during the night)
• weight distribution: generally, allu panniers sit/rides lower than soft luggage. just look at the photo of your DR with soft luggage compared to my XT. granted- this could be a negative in some situations, but having ridden my Africa Twin with soft and hard luggage, I found the weight distribution better with hard panniers than soft.

Now for the big comment: improving handling.
Let me start by saying I don't disagree that a lighter bike handles better off-road than a heavier bike. And a heavier bike is more stable at higher speed e.g. 80-130km/h) than a lighter bike, especially with cross-winds. But that doesn't mean you should stock up on weight to make your bike more stable, because it's also where the weight on the bike that makes a difference.

one of the biggest bull comments/truths I've heard from people is 'keep the weight between the wheels'. It depends on the weight of the rider and/or pillion, the rake angle and length of the forks, the sag of the rear suspension and the power-to-weight ratio of the particular machine (and various other things) as to where exactly you want the weight distributed.

And how big/tall is the rider? E.g. People complain my XR has poor handling, but it's cause they're smaller than me and sit on the tank- too much weight on the front suspension and not enough on the rear, because the bike is setup for me, a 130kg rider that sits on the toolpack on the back with no weight on the front.

So back to my XT: it had really soft rear suspension that tended to sag a bit, long forks, a long rake and relatively poor power-to-mass ratio. This all equated to a poor handling package in unloaded, as well as loaded form- the bike tended to drift through the tight corners in the mountains, and you couldn't get the nose up in the rough as there was too much weight on the front. Simply by moving the 2 x 2litlre water bottles to the back of the pannier and by changing the original top-box design and swopping it around, it allowed for better off-road handling and more response of the front wheel. By moving the panniers higher, tilting them to have them sit level with the bike's seat, it allowed for a better loading platform over the pillion seat and centralized the weight, improving in-line stability. This all made the bike easier to ride, which equates to less fatigue for the rider. It was never fast, and fully loaded, would happily sit at 105km/h all day. But you could, by ringing it's neck in 4th, still get 140-150 out of it if you have to without killing yourself with the dreaded weave.

As for my Africa Twin- I used what I had learned from the XT and built my pannier frames for that along the same lines, but I kept the center-line of the panniers in the middle of the rear-axles, thus getting a relatively neutral balance and keeping the weight on the rear wheel and off the already struggling standard AT front suspension. (in later years, I upgraded the front an rear suspension, but that's a different story). I then loaded up the panniers (or overloaded- this was a test afterall) and took the bike to the motocross track and spent a few hours riding the course, ramping the bike and testing. Using some lead weights, it allowed me to move the weight inside the panniers forward, backward sideways, etc. and test the handling characteristics of the bike with the system. Went home, made a few minor alterations and back to track. In comparison to my GS, which has BMW pannier system, my AT is a breeze to ride. In fact, my AT handles just as easily loaded as unloaded, whereas the GS, when loaded up, feels like an overweight hippo and it takes a bit to get used to it.

Another gripe I have with off-the-shelf panniers: the tendency for manufacturers to have two different size panniers on either side. if your bike is not loaded equally, it won't handle right. My XT's left pannier was bigger than the right when I 1st got it. That was one of the 1st things I changed and it made a huge difference.

So Ted- I agree to disagree. Some bikes are just poorly setup to begin with and handle like crap even before you start adding things to them. I do agree that you must try and reduce the bad effects (not enforce them), and a good setup will improve the overall handling package.

And light is better, but in my experience- power-to-mass ratio is more important than overall weight. E.g. a 130kg XR600 might be easier to ride in sand than a 200kg 950 KTM, but add some luggage/weight and that KTM will soon be easier to ride than the XR. Thus- adding heavy panniers (if you can't make light ones) to a small machine will not be a good idea. But 5-10kg more on a bigger machine is really not worth complaining about. Getting back to one of your own earlier comments when discussing Dominators and DR's- the heavier one actually felt lighter and easier to handle.

I think that you have been FAR from the main thread question...

"XT600 or DR650 which is the best for long distance travel?"

I think there are hundrends of topics about Hard or soft panniers in the Hubb...

Both bikes can do a lot of things in a long distance travel...Can carry soft and hard panniers..They can go to all types of terain easily,maintenance is easy and low cost on spares...

I have also a varadero xl1000v i prefer to keep it for two up trips in europe and get an XT (as i did)or a DR to go alone...Yes is gonna be tricky in the highways but is an excuse to avoid tolls!!Ha,ha!

As i see and read people starts travel with heavy motorcycles and as the years goes by the motorcycle gets more lighter and more simple and less power...
This is what i want to make my travel (not in the civilazation countrys) more easy in all sections...

zandesiro i see you have the XT600 so i would now invest in better suspension for your next mod (better front springs & a rear shock)

Good bike and that polish lad on ADV has done over 140,000km on his

Yes Wesley I have done the first 400km together until now...

Runs fine in my opinion but i wiil need an experts-mechanic opinion to measure the compresion of the cylinder...

If its ok, i will start to make some changes to the suspension,maybe a 25l tank if i find a cheap one new is expensive,some electrics light plugs...

Hope to get this year to the Dougs motocamp in Bulgaria it will be a small trip to see how is the travel with the XT...

I think you'll do fine on highway on your XT. And you are correct ... we've are too far OFF TOPIC. :offtopic:
I'd like to hear more ONE on ONE comparisons of the DR650 vs. XT600 bikes. Problem is, most members here are UK or EU based and FEW have access to the DR650. I've not seen many Ride Reports with XT riders over on ADV Rider, and never seen one on the road in USA or S. America. Plenty of DR650 riders on ADV Rider. Here on HUBB, very few DR650 reports in Ride Tales ... but LOTS of dialog going on in the Yamaha Tech section.

If anyone has links for XT600 ride reports (current or recent) please post here.

I'm guessing Yam XT's are one of the MOST popular bike on HUBB? Lots of expertise & experience from many skilled XT owner/ travelers. Big advantage for the XT here on HUBB. Travelers out of Canada and USA see more reports from those riding DR650, KLR's or Honda's. Here are a few links to some I've read starring the DR650:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...urfboard-72401
Prairies To Penguins Alberta to Argentina - ADVrider
tuckers to tdf - ADVrider
Two DR's Mainely seeking clams... - ADVrider

Jammin thru the Global South - ADVrider
Jammin Jay
No Jobs, No Responsibilities, No Better Time then Now - ADVrider
Big Al Smith
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...50+Baja&page=3
Jedi Master S. America
Alaska to Argentina - N69S54A - ADVrider
Lars from Joberg (girl friend riding DR650)
South for a while… maybe longer - ADVrider
Air Borne Andy
San Francisco to South America, eventually - ADVrider
evermore
Travellin' Troz - How NOT to travel to South America - ADVrider
Girl Friend on DR/Husband on KLR
Trails of North America...a photo journal - ADVrider
JediMaster N. America

It has been interesting to read this thread, and I must admit I have no experience of the XT, but I have owned a DR650 for the last 10 years.

It now has 80,000km on it and has taken me on trips all around Australia with no engine work done. I replaced the head stock bearings after a trip to Cape York and anyone who has done that trip wouldn't be surprised.

My point is that as far as I know, the 2013 DR650 here in Australia is exactly the same as my 2003 model, so when the bike finally gets to a point where everything starts to go, then all the adventure gear that I have added can be swapped straight onto a newer one. This includes 33 litre safari tank, staintune exhaust, luggage, screen and other bits and bobs. These bits represent and investment that now would be worth more than the bike.

The longest day I have done was 800km with no issues. I have found that the ability to move around the bike with a sheepskin cover over the standard seat to be comfortable enough.

Ted i bought the silvermans canvas soft bags,they are just perfect for their price...And 2 ortlieb 40liters waterproof bags to put inside!

Hope to test them on the road soon!

Excellent stuff... I've just built racks for my Dommie to fit mine.

If I was you I'd buy some big Velcro and sew them onto the flaps... I'll take pics of mine tomorrow.

Pic as promised.

Velco and a press stud. Cost a few quid and 30 mins sewing. Keeps it from flapping around in the wind.

Clever idea!!

Thank you Ted!!

I love my XT600, and I have done all the mods to make it great. It is strong and fun to ride and carries anything I want. However the DR is a great bike too, and I want one next for this reason and this reason only. You cant get XT's new anymore. If you buy an XT you are gonna have to repair it because they are all years old and have done lots of miles. And getting aftermarket products, like luggage racks etc is harder(I'm not saying it cant be done, but your options are reduced) The DR(especially here in OZ) has loads of current aftermarket stuff, and they easy to come by. When my XT finally gives up I wanna break it down and rebuild it beautiful like they do in Greece. But I'll get a DR for everyday riding. My 2 cents.

^^ Sorry, when I said you cant get them new, I meant the aircooled one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTR2...2-HPZyLvmXbHCA

Here is a vid of me and the missus riding from Brisbane to Sydney last Christmas. Ive got the old OZ army luggage rack (from the 91 model) which I custom fit to the last model(96 onwards)

Here is that Army rack on the XT. It looks heavy but isnt too bad. Holds things better than any other rack I've tried for the XT.

DSC05241.jpg
DSC05242.jpg

Have to agree. My mate just bought an XT600E last week. I think a great deal for 2k, but he's been complaining about exactly this. And reduced options generally relate to less competition and higher costs :thumbdown:

But luckily he's good at manufacturing, and can kit it out as he wants.

But apart from Acerbis, doesn't seem like there's much options out there for an aftermarket fuel tank. Wish there was a 30l Safari tank... But couple hundred $$ for 6 liter of fuel extra seems a bit steep

Yamaha discontinued XT600E imports to USA in 1995, and we never got the new generation 660's, do get Tenere' 1200.

But ... IIRC ... the UK (and possibly the rest of EU??) got the XT600E until 2003 or so, no? Is that correct?

What about Australia? 2003 is not ancient times. Seems to me parts would still be around from Yamaha since the bike was in production for so long? After market support is another issue ... and I'm sure by now it's dropped right off in most markets. That happens after an 11 year absence.

The good news is that there is so much "knowledge" about the XT600 that it seems certain help will be around for years to come, so it's worth the investment to buy the parts NOW and RIDE RIDE RIDE ... but nothing lasts forever.

We're lucky to still have the Suzuki DR650 in production with fantastic aftermarket support. On the road as a travel bike the DR650 has now become a very common site along with the KLR, V-Strom, various BMW's, Hondas and a few others. You won't see many XT's in the Americas nowadays.

For this reason, I'd go with the DR650. But I know and trust this bike, so for me it's a "no brainer".

Talking in general about Yamaha- they're not like Honda that'll make any discontinued component at a premium. If it's older than 10 years, you'll start to battle for spares. The XT's head (and cam) does not have bearings. Once the cam start wearing out the head/tappet cover, you're screwed and its up to backyard mechanic tricks to keep it going. And if you can get a new unit, it costs more than the what the bike's worth. Sad end to a otherwise reliable machine :(

Like you said- DR spares are more available and it's still in production.

And not knowing the cost of DR parts, but Yamaha spares are higher than Honda for example. And you don't get spares/parts from people like Ballards Racing (You replace almost anything out of an XR from their catalogue)

Australia got them till 2003, I think, however they are not the absolute last 4pt model. I have a 96, and my wife a 2003, and they both have the 3tb engine. This setup can be identified at a glance by the exhaust heat shield on the side, and the clutch position. The full 4pt had the clutch routed through to the right, where as the 3tb has it on the left, with the clutch cable having a banana bend at the end. The only difference I can notice is that when you turn the handlebars with the clutch pulled in, there is resistance against your hand, like the clutch cable is getting tighter like that. The true 4pt didnt have this problem.

My opinion is this. If you can get a decent mileage proper 4pt, do not hesitate to get it. I wish I could get one in OZ