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Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeboy (Post 540934)

Actually the bike I have owned that vibrated most was the Transalp 600 which was a heavy bike of 195 kilos dry and with V-twin engine. So to say that small bikes vibrate more doesnt make sence at all to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeboy (Post 540934)

Most smaller bikes that I have experience with are taller and have wheels of 21 and 18 and actually many of the biggest so called adventure bikes are lower and comes with 19/17 wheels. Thus I cant find much compliance in what you say about this subject and reality.

I agree on 19" front wheels- don't like them either, but some people prefer the better road-holding they provide for bitumen dominated riding. In fact, some people are already talking about converting the new AT's 21" front to a 19" because of this- each to his own. And part of this debate is the tube vs tubeless conundrum. A lot of people prefer the tubeless tyres and not many manufacturers offer tubeless unless you go to these sizes (19/17). But there are plenty of larger machines with 21" front wheels, e.g. 800GS, 800 Tiger, AT, KTM 950/990, XRV750 etc.

As for the rear wheel- Many of the big-singles come with a 17" rear (KLR650, DR650) and opinion differ on whether 17" or 18" tyres are better for touring- I find 18" better and easier to find in Australia and prefer the selection. So much so that I paid a lot of money to build an 18" rear wheel for my XRV750. Other parts of the world people claim the opposite (17" being easier to find).

So I reject your reality and substitute my own :innocent:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeboy (Post 540934)

I see that in a later post you complane about a bike that had problems reaching 120 km/h. Well - if your ideas about adventure riding is to ride on roads that one can ride in + 120 km/h and on bikes that can easily pass that speed when loaded up - we might have a totally different idea about adventure riding.

My apologies for complaining. It was meant as an empirical observation, not a complaint.

I don't like freeway riding much thank you, but every so often its required. I prefer to be on a machine that is capable of staying with the traffic. In the Australian heat, tyres delaminate easy and you have to look after them. Riding a loaded bike at speed tends seriously reduce tyre life and I prefer not to.

And I agree we have some different ideas of adventure riding. Mine seems to be much broader and accepts all forms, whereas yours appear to me as restrictive and narrow-minded. In my recent trip, I got caught in a Porsche train running through the mountains. I had just as much fun chasing them through the twisties on the bitumen than I did running up the beach or through the 4x4 tracks in the Flinders Mountain ranges. For my application, the best adventure bike is the one that offers me the most options. Just as I feel a certain loss at being on a road bike and not being able to go down a dirt track to see a waterfall, so I feel a loss when I want to 'push' things a bit and the throttle is against the stopper, there's a lot of noise, but not enough forward motion.

And when I have the time, I also prefer slower riding because: less fuel, see more, less fatigue (wind/concentration/etc.). But I also have to be practical - we live rural and I travel for sport. A weekend is 3-4 days 1800-3000km of mixed bitumen/dirt riding with your gear. You can't realistically do this at 80km/h.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeboy (Post 540934)

And when you say dont let the size of a bike dictate where you go I cannot do anything else that smile - because the size of the bike WILL dictate where you are able to go. Thats a fact....

Maybe it does to you. But hey, I accept the challenge - only way to prove you wrong is for us to go riding together... bier

Ok, I see we have completely different frames of reference here. A 650 might be smaller by definition but to most it still falls within the big bike category. Thankfully too as it wasn't always so. More and more people are realizing that there are small bike options. I actually sold my Dakar 650 for a WRR. Haven't looked back. The thing is fine at 110kph all day (no screen). Been doing long distance adventure riding through the open space of Wyoming riding from Calgary to Denver, ridden single trails through the bush of the sunshine coast hinterland, Qld and recently the desert trails in Baja. No way would I have ridden all that on the Dakar. Walked and ride like your pics, sure. But not ride and loving it. This is what we're referring to.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squily (Post 541220)

I was being very general of machines and did not list specific machines. There are always exceptions in every class of machine- e.g. An 640 LC4 KTM vibrates to buggery, but has lots of power/performance. An XT is pretty gutless in comparison, but has a smoother engine. But it is interesting you mention the CRF250L and XL600, because my wife has them to and she complains of needle-an-pins in her fingers when she rides the CRF long distance, but not the XL600. Same bikes, but different experiences. Could it be tyre related?

I agree on 19" front wheels- don't like them either, but some people prefer the better road-holding they provide for bitumen dominated riding. In fact, some people are already talking about converting the new AT's 21" front to a 19" because of this- each to his own. And part of this debate is the tube vs tubeless conundrum. A lot of people prefer the tubeless tyres and not many manufacturers offer tubeless unless you go to these sizes (19/17). But there are plenty of larger machines with 21" front wheels, e.g. 800GS, 800 Tiger, AT, KTM 950/990, XRV750 etc.

As for the rear wheel- Many of the big-singles come with a 17" rear (KLR650, DR650) and opinion differ on whether 17" or 18" tyres are better for touring- I find 18" better and easier to find in Australia and prefer the selection. So much so that I paid a lot of money to build an 18" rear wheel for my XRV750. Other parts of the world people claim the opposite (17" being easier to find).

So I reject your reality and substitute my own :innocent:

My apologies for complaining. It was meant as an empirical observation, not a complaint.

I don't like freeway riding much thank you, but every so often its required. I prefer to be on a machine that is capable of staying with the traffic. In the Australian heat, tyres delaminate easy and you have to look after them. Riding a loaded bike at speed tends seriously reduce tyre life and I prefer not to.

And I agree we have some different ideas of adventure riding. Mine seems to be much broader and accepts all forms, whereas yours appear to me as restrictive and narrow-minded. In my recent trip, I got caught in a Porsche train running through the mountains. I had just as much fun chasing them through the twisties on the bitumen than I did running up the beach or through the 4x4 tracks in the Flinders Mountain ranges. For my application, the best adventure bike is the one that offers me the most options. Just as I feel a certain loss at being on a road bike and not being able to go down a dirt track to see a waterfall, so I feel a loss when I want to 'push' things a bit and the throttle is against the stopper, there's a lot of noise, but not enough forward motion.

And when I have the time, I also prefer slower riding because: less fuel, see more, less fatigue (wind/concentration/etc.). But I also have to be practical - we live rural and I travel for sport. A weekend is 3-4 days 1800-3000km of mixed bitumen/dirt riding with your gear. You can't realistically do this at 80km/h.

Maybe it does to you. But hey, I accept the challenge - only way to prove you wrong is for us to go riding together... bier

First of all I think you should be very very careful judging others and calling me narrow minded and restrictive. If you really need to lie and talk shit about others and lube your own ego I suggest that you find somewhere else to do it. This is not the place for it.

I have said several times in this thread that one can travel long distance or go around the world on anything you like from a 50 cc Vespa to a 1800 cc Goldwing or even bigger. You on the other hand have said that small bikes vibrate (more than big bikes) have less wind protection, a 650 struggles to do 120 with luggage etc etc. I wonder who is the more narrow minded here? Well - I let it be up to others to decide.....

My main point is as I have said several times - if youre going really off road and where the going gets though - a lighter bike is a much better option. If the stretch is tough enough a heavy bike wont even get through and if one gets through with a big bike it wont be much fun.

Im observe you dont get much support in your point of view here. But its no surprise as most people in here have a certain experience.

Then again - on a long distance travel you will need to cole down to a compromise when choosing a bike model. As I also have mentioned several times before.

Youre mention that riding in 80 km/h wont be a realistic alternative for your weekend trip. Oh my gosh - well I quite sure you could if you planned according to it. Maybe do a little longer trip than a weekend trip?
And by the way - where and why did you get the 80 km/h thing in your head? I had a 100 cc when I was 16 years old and it did 130 km/h (it was a two stroker) and most 250 cc bikes have a top speed 130-140. Tmotten rides his WR 250 in 110 km/h all day.

I have absolutely not challenged you in any sense of the word. And just by having such thoughts it seems obvious that you either are not able to understand or are not willing to see my main point. The only way to understand this is for one person to take a big bike and go for a real hardcore off road ride and then do same thing with a lighter bike. And then compare which was the best bike for such a ride and which bike was the most fun to ride such a stretch with. Its not a man versus man thing - its a bike versus bike thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakeboy (Post 541299)

I was trying to lighten the mood by 'accepting your challenge' and never meant any disrespect. In fact I meant it as an invitation and hope for us to meet and extend in further friendly banter/discussion.

Reading my comments again, I can see how you think I called you narrow-minded. That was certainly not meant as an insult and I am sorry.

If you feel I misinterpreted your statements, sorry. But calling me a liar... like you said, maybe this is not the place. Have a nice life

Well Squilly - said is said and written is written. When you use harsh words and expressions you must to a certain extend expect something similar back. And you did call me narrowminded ++. If that isnt disrespectful I might have misunderstood some of the english language....

I much rather keep a debate and a thread on a factual level than answering someone calling me narrowminded. I can assure you of that. So any discussion and debate that that stick to facts and of course to personal meanings as long as they are clearly separated - I think are great. I hope if we cross paths later on on the forum we can stick to facts and personal views about the issue that is discussed and not negative personal comments about eachother.

Im with greenmanalishi on this one. Horses for courses.
Choose the right tool for the job or choose your compromise based on what makes you most happy.

I had a Xt600e single at 156Kg It would go just about anywhere 1up and carry enough gear. Off road unloaded it was OK but not ideal and motorway was a chore after a couple of hours.

Now I have a 1200 240Kg bike for road touring two up with luggage but also want to get a 250 for around town, green lanes and lightweight budget trips where time is not a factor.

But If I had to choose a RTW bike It would be a 600 middleweight.
Air cooled, Carbs, Single cylinder Jap bike.
I'd still have my XT if I thought I'd ever get the chance to go RTW :frown:

Best of luck and happy travels,
Dave.