want these specs - which bike for London to SA?
 

I am currently planning a 12 month trip from London to South Africa and want to really get off the beaten track. I would like a bike with the following specs:

1) must be shaft drive
2) would like a hydraulic clutch
3) would like a kickstart


Obviously reliability is a must and needs to be a good handler off road / in rough terrain.

Any suggestions?

As you asked!
Reconsider the reason for your wants!

1- shaft drive -usually fitted on 'way-too-heavy' bikes. A broken/damaged one can bring your trip to a dead stop if it breaks especially in Africa! And that usually means seriously big bucks too (+ possibly abandonning your bike while you fly out to get replacements and/or pay DHL and big import duties etc.

IMHO- chose a moto with a chain, fit good steel spockets and a new DID-X ring chain.
A tiny chain breaker/riveter and a few spare links in your tool kit are worth having.

2- Chose cable operated clutch- easy to fix anywhere.
Fit a new cable before going and run a spare alongside for a quick fit.

3- kick start handy but not essential. You can always jump or bump start.

I hope I haven't rained on your 'parade' !
Africa, as with any destination further from supplies and specialists, dictates that whatever machine you decide to take MUST be reliable and as much 'fixable in the field' as possible.
Decide with your head not your heart!
Chances are you will come off and you will break something on your bike. Would you then not rather it was easy to fix ?

+1 for Bertrand's comments. Outside of Europe there's little use for anything over 800cc. If you want to actually see the countries you'll be passing through you will likely spend most of your time bumbling along at 70-80 kph.

Specifying a kick start is unnecessarily condemning you to an older selection of bikes. When you're off-road and you've stalled in a gulley so narrow you can't swing your leg you will regret not having e-start. When I had a kick-start only XR400R I yearned for a starter button.

Suggestions? At the risk of sounding boring, a BMW F650 GS single. Widely supported by accessory manufacturers. Sounds like a rather quiet lawnmower which is good as it doesn't advertise your presence long before you appear. Great fuel economy and if you can handle the height you could look at the Dakar or Sertaõ versions which have 21-in front wheels.

Boring is good ☺
 

For long haulin' the F650 Dakar . Solid and reliable (if only it could loose 20 kgs but hey.... everything is a compromise!)
But then, I'm biased but it is a good all rounder. Just learn about a couple of its foibles.

The Yam XTZ Tenere also has a good engine if, it too, could do with shedding a few kgs.
A mini jump stater power pack will start your bike ( and recharge your phone etc) if you're worried about a dead battery and FI.

Ask Tim (above) about the XT as I believe he had one.

Very wise comments so far! :thumbup1:
As mentioned, Shaft Drive usually equals BIG heavy bike over 1000cc. Not to mention reilability issues if abused off road under heavy load. Heavy meaning over 600 lbs. fully loaded.
:thumbdown:

Your words:
"... want to really get off the beaten track."

Seriously? :innocent:
IMHO, this necessitates a fairly light bike and fairly minimal gear. A F650 BMW/Dakar/Sertao are still ALL too heavy, expensive and unreliable IMO ... especially if you're a novice off road rider.

Go smaller, lighter and have FUN!

Plenty of great bikes in the 250 to 450cc range. Mostly Japanese. A few 650 class bikes may work well if you're a fairly big lad and fit. Do get some experience off road before departure. (not just a one day course!)

A few bikes to consider:
CRF250L
KLX250S
WR250R (a great bike!)
KTM 450EXC
Husqvarna 501 dual sport
Beta 450
CCM 450 Enduro (made in England)
DRZ400S
XR400 (with street kit)
XR650L
XT600 Yamaha
DR650SE
DR350S (no longer produced)

All above could be made to be good Africa explorer bikes. But, as you'll find out ... ALL bikes need proper set up if you seriously plan to "get off the beaten path". The 650's will be the best on your highway sections, comfortably cruising at 65 mph, but the worst in Mud, deep sand and tough roads or tracks.
Here the 250's shine. The 450's are sort of a middle ground rough terrain bikes.

But as mentioned, in most of Africa you'll be tootling along between 35 to 55 mph. So, even the 250's are fine for most situations. The smaller bikes require better planning to pack up, but it can be done with practice.

I'd go sit on a few bikes, get as many test rides as you can manage. Do more research. Find out what current Africa riders are riding. Don't jump into dicey off road situations without a bit of experience before hand.

Good planning!
bier

I'm just trying to think if there's anything around that has all three of those items. Plenty with 1 and 2 and probably a number with 2 and 3 but off the top of my head I'm struggling to think of anything with all three. Maybe something from the mists of time maybe?

Actually there's a reason why something from Mollydog's list would be most people's choice for a UK - SA trip. It's not because overlanders take some kind of perverse pleasure in struggling with old or superseded technology like chains or cables but because they are good enough, bush mechanic fixable and generally lighter than the alternatives. Weight, you'll find, counts for a lot, particularly when you get stuck in mud or sand and have to consider dismantling the bike to carry it out piece by piece.

Re kickstarts - if it's on your list because you consider it more reliable than electricity, that's not been my experience. I got my XR600 stuck in sand in Mauritania and snapped the kickstart off trying to restart it.

In your place top of my list would be weight followed by a reputation for reliability. Something that you can manhandle on difficult terrain and that you know will start and move under its own power every day is what makes for an easy trip. Size and power are almost irrelevant once you're out of Europe. It's not as if you're going to be rushing through the countryside - how many times are you going to be there?

Thanks for your replies

I fully understand what you say but I just love shaft drive. I used to have a cx500 and really loved it. The reliability was second to none and it never let me down once. If I contrast that with chains, having to constantly adjust them, I prefer a shaft any day. plus why not take a spare shaft with me? I know people go on about the weight but don't think it's that much.

Out of interest did anyone ever make a smaller dual sport bike with shaft drive as most of the shaft drives in dual sport are around the 1000cc mark. I know Honda made the XLV750R but that's just too rare to consider for this trip. Call me strange but add a kickstart and that would be my dream!

Been looking myself but can't see anything. Forget the hydraulic clutch for a moment, anyone know of any bikes with kickstart and shaft drive?

I have been looking at the BMW R80 G/S which is shaft drive and see some of these came with kickstarts.

Equally rare but probably less reliable, Guzzi did a shaft drive 750 D/S iirc (NTX750?). If we're looking at older stuff the original GoldWing was a shafty with a kick start and while I took mine round Morocco that's about as far south as I'd want to go on it. However, in three years of ownership I never once managed to get it to start on the kickstart. Likewise my current CCM604 - electric and kick but it never ever starts on the kickstart. I don't know how user friendly the kickstart on the R80 GS (probably my first choice with your criteria) is but there's not much point in having something if it doesn't work.

Re CX500s - I had a 650 which needed a fair bit of work - electrical mainly (alternator x2, reg/rec,) + cam chain, head gasket, exhaust baffles and brake hydraulics. It ended its days (with me anyway) after a valve broke and wrecked the left hand cylinder. All in about 25k miles. Mine may have been a Friday afternoon bike but that wasn't a good record. Just goes to show that people's experiences are different.

Take a spare shaft? Phew!

Ted? Paging *Touring Ted*!:laugh:

How about this: BMW R80GS DAKAR STUNNING RESTORATION For Sale (1987) on Car And Classic UK [C674449] Nice, but probably a bit pricey for a trip through Africa. Or how about the current Guzzi V7 with knobblies and a decent set of rear shocks? You don't need a trail bike to do that trip.

David 151 There you go!

The BMW R26 or R27 fits your list with the exception of the hydraulic clutch!:blushing:
Not that I would recommend it.

247cc, 18HP, Shaft drive, kick start, single cylinder, carb easy to fix/clean

I have a Scottoiler fitted, and I'm about to adjust my chain the first time this year! That's not exactly constantly!

The CX series V-Twin Honda's were legendary. Great bikes with many couriers getting 200K miles out of them. Could it be a good travel bike? It could, but would be tough in certain off road conditions. If you stick to dirt roads and nothing too tough, it could be a good bike. You should consider one, even though its from another era, it could still work.

I fear your experience with Chains and chain drive bikes goes back to the Dark Ages. I never have to adjust my chain and routinely get 20K Plus miles out of one. The latest DID X Ring chains are quite remarkable ... nothing like the "bad old days". Different world mate.

The weight of shaft drive can be figured. And it's not just the shaft that breaks: bearings, U joints, splines, housings ... and of course the shaft itself. Probably about 5 to 7 kgs. more than chain set up all in.

I wonder what was the last time you rode a bike and what that bike was. Really, any bike can tour, so take your pick. But when you said "get off the beaten path", that changes things and sort of eliminates some bikes. Consider your skills and strength. Learn from others who've gone before you.

BMW and Guzzi both made "smaller" dual sports ... but I would not really classify either as "dual sport" by modern standards as they'd both hammer you in tough conditions. You'll pay in BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS! doh

All part of the fun, right? :D

I really think you need to drop the fixation on shaft drive and kick start and instead listen to what others are saying.

It's never a good idea to undertake a trip of this scale without some smaller trips as a shakedown, so take a flight into Marrakech, hire a local bike and seek out some tough stuff for a week to give you an idea of what you might be facing.

Does anyone know anything about the BMW R65GS

It seems to be an R65 engine fitted into a R80G/S chassis. From what I can tell most of the R65GS were restricted to 27HP for the German market for young riders. Saying that I do believe a number of unrestricted 50hp model were produced.

If I went for one of the unrestricted 50hp models would this be a good choice? Parts for the R65 engine seem easy to come by as well as the R80 GS chassis.

Out of interest does anyone know if the R65GS ever came with a kickstart? I know the normal R65 did.


Thanks for all your comments. As for Tims suggestion I think I will fly out to Marrakech and play around for a few weeks. I don't envisage embarking on the proper trip until August next year, so have quite a bit of time.