No question there is a gap in this segment. KTM seems to be doing the best at filling that gap. Husky and Husaberg were also doing a good job heading in that direction before their demise.

The Japanese companies have mostly been asleep the last 10 or 15 years.
Lots of reasons WHY ... but I predict a change is in the works ... from ALL of the big four.

KTM's 450EXC street legal race bike has great potential, IMO.
KTM also make a cool Dakar Rally version you can buy, not a good travel bike, and probably costs .. what? ... $25K to $30K? :(

I'd like to see KTM build a 450 version of the KTM 690. What do you think??c? More dual sport biased, real sub frame for luggage, reduced HP for long term reliability, longer maint. intervals. Will we see this? Dunno? :innocent:

I've heard rumors KTM are working on a smaller twin ... something 650 to 800cc ADV twin, light weight, perhaps inspired by the 950 SE? Rumor!

For the time being I think the "ancient" DRZ400S is not a bad choice. Sure, it's down on power ... but how much do you need on a travel bike?

DRZ wet weight is around 300 lbs. (136 kgs.). Heavy but not outrageous for a 100% street legal 400cc dual sport. The DRZ offers a real subframe, bullet proof proven engine with 14 years of history among tens of thousands of examples worldwide, many still on the road/trail.

The KTM 690 is about 320 lbs. wet (145 kgs. wet) Fantastic for a 650 class bike!

But once you add lots of extras and luggage for travel to either bike, weight goes UP sharply. Not sure how you get round that in an elegant way?:innocent:

You could take a 300cc Two Stroke Trials bike RTW (under 200 lbs) ... but once you load it up for travel ... it would get heavy quick and it's total character would change.

The other problem with loading up a very light weight race bike is that it changes it's character dynamic, which can affect handling.

The traveler has to sort of "re-design" his bike, adapt suspension and geometry to maintain proper handling whilst carrying luggage. Luggage must be arranged carefully to make it all work.

I would hope a bike built from the ground up to carry a luggage load would have an advantage? Hopefully CCM has thought about this with their new bike?

I like the idea of a 450 class bike in that not only will going off road on tougher tracts be more fun, but a 450 class bike forces us to pack lighter and smarter ... and just plain get along with LESS.
I'm thinking this could be a challenge to riders coming off a R12GS-A!
bier

The "Biker" vs. "Traveler" discussion will never stop, and continue until the universe will end...

The right bike is the one which makes you happy, not the one which make the next person over happy.

Never forget that happiness cannot be bought, only satisfaction can, and they are not the same things.

This is a philosophical discussion, and in general does not have anything to do with physical things...

I think it's BOTH ...
It's philosophical ... and physical. Check the title of the thread again ... then go back and read Paul's original essay.

Paul writes as much about "Which Bike" as he does about travel attitude and philosophy. So it's clearly BOTH ... and nothing is out of bounds, both are relevant ... but working out a proper "ratio" between attitude and the bike is tricky and very personal.

Your comments about "happiness" are entirely valid and important to be aware of too! I think a delicate balance much be maintained. (at least for me!) I devote a lot of energy and attention to my bike ... but it is not the center of the universe and does not dictate the parameters of a trip, but if my heart is not in the trip ... I can always fall back onto the bike for solace!

(yes, I'm crazy!) :rofl:

1.) Something about creative young engineers getting told "the way we do things here" and getting frustrated and leaving.

2.) RallyRaid UK and Torque Racing have successfully built a 450 LC4 from a 690 motor. It has about 50 hp. I think Jenny Morgan will be racing one in Dakar in 2015 and they will have 2 more in the race I think. Jenny Morgan Rode the bike from the Uk to the Hellas Rally, did the rally and rode it back to the UK. They never changed the oil till the bike got back to the Torque racing shop. lc450 dakar. I have heard they will sell a kit to convert the 690 into a 450 for people who want a pullet proof 450 or those who want to make their 690 enduros/rally bikes legal for FIM Rallies. But this begs the question, if you have a 690, why reduce it to 450 if you are not saving weight?

3.) They are developing an 800 an 500 parallel twin. Come on KTM! Make a 500 twin ADV!!!! (Please keep it under 130 kilo!)

4.) How much HP is needed? 45hp is a good number. :innocent:

I did read it, and found it immensely interesting.

I just spend the better part of 8 months trying to build the "perfect" travel bike, and then discovered that it's not possible, is not what I wanted. So I'm going to pull the plug and sell it.

So yes, we chase perfection, but perfection is not equal happiness, and at the end of the day we want to be happy.

I'd heard vague rumors about the 800 V-Twin, nothing on a 500 P-twin. I'd bet the 500 will be an Made In India Bajai motor, no?

I know Bajai have big plans for KTM. Will interesting to see how they handle it once they own a controlling share, if they don't already?

A super lightweight parallel twin would be cool. The Japanese have made one or two 300cc to 500cc twins over the last 50 years :smartass: ... shame the CB500X from Honda weighs in at 430 lbs. with 4.5 gallon on board, makes 46 HP but does get 70 mpg.

2013 Honda CB500X specifications and pictures

I have high hopes for the KTM's (Bajai) 390. Only read a couple reviews in the Brit press ... they were not all that complimentary of the bike. Bike has lots of problems, hope KTM can sort it out ... and hope the engine is a good one as KTM have plans to make an ADV bike out of it, according to Pierier in an interview a couple years ago. (CEO) Maybe this is the "500 parallel twin" you're thinking of? Or is that a totally different motor?

Please. Do not blaspheme. It is a KTM. there can only be a 790 and a 490. Would anyone whose blood runs orange buy anything else?

Blerry yank heathen :kiss:

Next you will tell me America, owned by the banks and Hollywood, and with more dollars in china than in the USA or Israel, is the land of the free.

the right attitude
 

I fully agree with the statement that the right attitude is the most important part of an adventure travel or of any travel really.

I was doing my first "adventure" riding in Laos a few years back not even knowing what adventure motorcycling meant that time. After watching "Long way down" I learned about this type of travel.

Anyway, I rode around Laos on a tiny rented Suzuki Van Van and it was the highlight of my otherwise 6 months back packing tour.

http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/...psdbab05ae.jpg


As you can see I'm not equipped with Touratech or Klim gear or had a gps but only relaying on the kindness of locals and a good attitude.

My first "adventure" tourer was a 78 Kawasaki KZ750B2 (twin). I was doing a lot of riding in the deserts of Northern Mexico and the high country of eastern California. The bike came to me from a guy nicknamed "Crash" and looked as if it had been dragged for days under a bus. It had fiberglass bags which I promptly removed (not paying attention and rode into an arroyo tearing both bags off). I replaced them with a set of 37mm ammo cans bolted to a set of homemade mounts (superb bags, waterproof, huge, indestructable if a bit heavy). The tires were, more or less bald (at 18 you don't really know very much) so I replaced them with full knobbies as I was off-road as much as on. This bike took me everywhere my VF750 would not and I had a blast doing it. Was it a great adv. tourer? Absolutely! My second foray was an 81 cx500 Honda (reused the same 37mm cans after the KZ was destroyed by a nearly blind (but awfully nice) old guy who ran it into a building while parked.The bags had one small dent...Verdict on the cx? Excellent! This was the most overbuilt bike in history. Liquid cooled, shaft drive, all for a 500cc twin. The bike was everything you'd want for rough overland touring (might've had more ground clearance). It was eventually replaced by a gs80 which was, of course, even better. It was the places I went, not really the bikes that made these years of riding so very good. I had thought I was very intrepid until I came across a guy on a 74 fl way up a set of fire roads in the back of beyond. No mods, street tires, just patient competent riding. Just shows that you can go anywhere if you've the will to.
Just playing Devil's advocate for a moment... have you ever noticed that the more difficult (arduous, nightmarish...) the trip, the more we remember? If you want a real adventure, take the worst imaginable bike for the job. Say, like Emilio Scotto, a Gold Wing through jungles, or perhaps a Hayabusa through Baja (no pavement, either) a 75 CZ Falta replica with lights cross country on interstates. If adversity breeds character, these trips would be very character-building. But they wouldn't be dull!

Possibly take up chainsaw juggling too? ;-)


I often like dull. Dull often seems to involve knowing that at 55 mph the plod will have to think of some other way to rip me off. Dull is a type of theft proofing, thieves don't do dull as much as flashy. Dull means than on days after the night before my brain can keep up with the machinery. If dull means camping halfway down some trail and doing the other half in the morning rather than doing it like a stage of the Dakar I'll have to be dull.


Andy

You really hit the nail with that comment. I mean aren't we all here to be adventurous, to ride a bike into the unknown to have an adventure? So why so many people choose the high tech bullet proof super comfortable warrantied machines? In our modern high tech life does the word adventure lost its meaning?

You ride, so you aren't addicted to the dull. If you were, you'd be on the toyota prius forum. What seems dull can sometimes turn out superbly. In March I went riding (28 degrees F, snow filled trails) this got a little sporty for me (lots of crabwise motion) so I retreated to the paved/plowed much duller back roads. I stopped for a short break near a stand of pines. Off to my right I saw movement and, there on the same tree, were a pair of birds. One was a bluejay and the other a male cardinal. Brilliant sun, deep green and black trees, white snow, and two of our most colorful and spectacular birds all in one place. Were I a religious man, I'd say God was rewarding me for the earlier visual comedy of my snow riding. Such vivid images must be seen in person, this will not happen in the living room. So much for the duller road.

Well, I always want bulletproof (mechanically) so I get a bit heavy with maintenance. The funny thing is that adventure sort of occurs, you don't need to look for it. Getting lost on Chicago's south side was an adventure, but it wasn't planned. You can go wherever you want with a bike so why not go to the places a car cannot? If we want comfort, we'd drive a land rover.Point being, we're limited by our will to go, not the thing we go on. Any bike can adventure tour or tour (some just do it better). My honeymoon in 88 was on a 72 Triumph Tiger (I broke a ring reassembling my Moto Guzzi and it took 2 1/2 months to get rings.) It was a great 10 day trip. Breakdowns (minor) roadside repair, campground maintenance, seat like a brick, etc. just made it more memorable.

I agree 100% with the article. As for the best bike discussion or who is or who isn't considered a true adventure rider ........ All bikes have their limitations and advantages, as does the person riding it. Both have been argued and debated over and over again. I respect anyone who had taken a 1200GS Adv or a 250 Yamaha around the globe, across a continent or a country. Just ride and enjoy !!!

well said!

If I may add the only thing that can be a deciding factor of what bike to use is how much fun you are having riding a particular bike. I only had a chance to ride a few different bikes but I hear from other riders the fun factor differs from bike to bike.