Honda xr650L or yamaha xt 600?
 

following my other thread I have come to my senses! I think I bought into all the hype and was convinced I needed a big bike. As I want to get off the beaten track in Africa I now realise it is sensible to take something smaller and after a lot of thinking I feel a bike in the 600 range will be right for me. Thinking about my preference I would very much like:

1) Air cooled reliable engine
2) kickstart or ability to retrofit a kickstart



From reading around, the Honda xr650L and yamaha xt 600 seem to fit my preferences, with many positive reports of people riding through Africa on them. Are there any other proven bikes which people feel would be a good choice based on my preferences?

Out of the two bikes which do you think is the better choice and what is the best year to go for on these bikes? Weight wise they seem quite similar with the Honda being a few kg lighter.

I heard the Honda can run hot, but wonder if fitting an oil cooler is the answer? Does the Yamaha run hot? Which is the most reliable engine out of the two?

Both bikes will obviously need bigger tanks, but I don't mind spending a bit of money on a Acerbis tank. What about parts availability? I guess Honda parts will be easier to come by in Africa?

Honda parts in Africa..... erm....not really. Some will even say Honda's don't need spare parts!

Fitting an oil cooler - doable on some bikes if you know what you are doing. (I fitted one to my Dakar for awhile)

External fuel tanks cost big bucks. Cheaper to use fuel bladders which weigh next to nothing when empty. It all depends on your budget.

IMHO whatever machine you take, the same mantra applies:
Have it properly serviced before going.

Fit any new spares then do a dummy run loaded with your kit to make sure they fit and work and that your luggage weight is manageable...

Learn all you reasonably can about servicing your own bike- you'll need it. Aside from Tony in Lome there are precious few brand trained mechanics on the Western Route- come to think of it- ditto on the Eastern route.

Try to find someone who owns the bike you will have bought and who used his/hers on a long trip and ask them if they will share their knowledge.

Any parts you are not carrying will most probably have to be DHL'ed. Expensive and time consuming but it happens.
There are pkaces where you can beg/borrow or pay to cannabalise parts.
Bike shops are a very rare thing beyond Morocco.

One thing you'll have to leave behind is the European mindset!

Both bikes are sensible choices but most of Bertrand's rules apply nonetheless.

I owned a Honda XR-L back in 1993 (bought new). Not my favorite dual sport but if sorted well, can be very good. It's good off road, but as you found, they run hot. Rear sub frame and battery box also weak areas. But LOTS of potential if fixes are done!

Don't know much about the legendary XT600 other than dozens have made the trip you're planning on XT's. I believe they are still common & available in the UK. (production ceased in ?2003 or so?) XR-L no longer imported to UK but still in production and sold new in USA and elsewhere.

But DO check out Ted's well sorted XR650L ... for sale here on HUBB:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-mileage-83896

Other options are starting your trip in S. Africa. Fly in, buy (or rent?) a bike and go. Ride a big loop and re-sell there (buy back?) or re-sell somewhere North. Plenty of good bikes for sale in S. Africa, about same prices as UK/EU.

Also consider a Suzuki DR650 ('97 or newer). It's the bike I (and thousands more) ride, but not for sale in UK or EU, but is available in S. Africa and all of North America. Used ones very inexpensive in USA.

Also, a guy here on HUBB just bought a new DR650 from USA and had it shipped to UK. (all done by phone)

You could probably find a few set up XT's or XR-L's in the UK now that are set up for travel (like Ted's one above).

Also check this bike out:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...drz-400e-84101

DRZ is great bike for off road. IMO, would make a good Africa bike.

Don't worry about kick start. Batteries are not like the bad old days. Good batteries last 5 years easy. No longer an issue. Start trip with NEW battery of course!

bier

Thanks Molly, I did look at the Suzuki DR650SE before and it looks a cracking bike, but the deal breaker for me is there is no practical way to fit a kickstart. As for the drz 400e, I think that bike is water cooled? I really want an air cooled bike, as if I crash it, it's one less thing to break.

What about a TT600R Belgarda?

Basically same engine as a XT600, aircooled and kickstart-only, but with bigger airbox and carbs. You can also get a Acerbis 21 litre tank for it.

It was Yamaha's answer to a (relatively) hardcore enduro before being replaced by the WR.

It has many nice details such as fully adjustable Paoli/Öhlins suspension with a lot of travel, Tagasako alloy rims, Brembo brakes with braided hoses, swingarm grease nipples, quick-change airfilter, etc.

The biggest downside to the bike is the narrow seat that turns highways into pure torture sessions. An airhawk or custom seat is a must. Its also quite a tall bike...I'm 182 cm and I can't flatfoot it, but only reach the ground with the tip of my feet. Nothing precarious, but might be an issue to some.

I think its a serious contender for a Africa overland trip, but I have to say that, as I own one with the sole purpose of doing a major overland trip ;)

Like shaft drive fantasies, you may want to consider leaving kick start and anti water cooled obsessions behind as well. Keep researching, see what you come up with.

Unless you go back to a 1980's XT500 or early XT600 or some early XL Hondas, I'm not sure many kick start dual sports are currently around past mid 90's or so. I'm sure they're a few ... but would those old nails be ideal travel bikes? :innocent:

I grew up on kick start bikes, (from early 60's) also lived through decades of poor (British, Spanish and German) elec. systems and hundreds of dead batteries. I became an expert at bump starting big British twins at age 15! :rofl: ... and kicking them just wore you out or broke your ankle.

Also rode crap air cooled bikes that burnt up or seized for no apparent reason. Those days are gone. (thank God!) Liquid cooling pretty much rules now with just a few notable exceptions among 1st world big cc bikes sold by the Big Four. (DR650 is one)

The DR650 is the easiest starting bike on the market. Barely touch the button and it's running! Excellent electrics too! :thumbup1: thump thump thump!

And don't forget superior Japanese electrics in general. Unlike some "others" I could mention ... Japanese electrics work ... and keep working (think Denso). If you run the DR's battery dead (it will continue running :thumbup1:) it's not a problem to bump start ... if on pavement or hard dirt surface if you have good technique.

Take care your electrics and all will be well. Don't run too many accessories. But the charging system will restore a dead battery in 20 minutes riding providing battery is reasonably healthy and not sat round too long.

I too appreciate the air cooled aspect regards ADV travel bikes, but the DR650 is not typical. It uses the very sophisticated Suzuki SACS oil/air cooling system developed for the GSXR race bikes in the early 90's. Google it. The DR got it in
1997 with the "all new" DR650SE.

Regards liquid cooling:
I raced AMA Enduro for 8 years (liquid cooled 2 strokes). Had dozens of big crashes ... never busted a radiator, broke a hose or lost a water pump. ALL Japanese bikes of course. So, while it can happen, it's fairly RARE!

But it IS a factor ... what with hoses, water pump and such. All that said, I do like my DR's "oil/air cooled" system but would have no problem riding (and have ridden) a liquid cooled machine to ends of the earth.

The DR650 has an "oil cooler" radiator. Does an incredible job at oil cooling. DR650's never over heat ... as tested by me in 118F temps riding hard. Never a whimper. :D

So keep researching, see what you come up with. Most of the guys who've commented have owned many dual sport singles and most have traveled on them. Take the advice given seriously. They are the "real deal".

Good luck! bier

Thanks for your feedback Molly, but the Yamaha Xt 600 was made until 2004 and I can get a very recent Honda Xr650L. From my research it is relatively easy to retrofit a kickstart to both models, therefore you get a bike which is not ancient with a kickstart. Also you don't loose the ability to electric start, so you have the best of both worlds. It's very well saying you can bump start, but on sand in the desert I can't see this happening.

I completely hear what you say regarding unreliable air cooled engines, that's why I started looking at these two bikes which both have a proven history of making Africa trips. I do understand the Honda does run hot and wonder what it is like when pushed to the extreme? Do you think fitting an oil cooler would be enough to avert any fears? As for the Yamaha, don't know how hot this runs? I did hear it burns a lot of oil, but don't know how true that is?

Thanks prop for your suggestion of the TT600R Belgarda. What advantage do you think this bike has over the two models I am looking at? What made you go for this option? How hot does the bike run and how will it cope pushed to the limits in the desert heat?

I also owned one for a while; it was a pig to start, kicker only.
Battery-less ignition, there is a routine to starting the belgrada that has been posted in here previously.

There are no cush rubbers on the rear hub = a "harsh" ride experience.

I am not sure if the engine is at a higher state of tune compared with the XT600 version - does the XT600 have a dry sump engine design? The TTR600 is definitely dry sump.

The OEM exhaust drops to bits - the end cap blows off and disappears into the nearest hedgerow (that end cap has pop rivet fixings so that they act in tension rather than in shear - the net result is that the pop rivet heads fail and away the end cap goes).

xr
 

to fit a kicker to an xrl you have to split the engine cases you will need bits from a xr 600 or early domi , oil cooler easy just split the pipes to the frame and plumb in

Ive never owned a XR650L, so I have no grounds for comparison. That being said, I've owned Honda's and they're every bit as reliable as Yamaha.

Compared to the XT, the TT is more offroad oriented whereas the XT is more road oriented.

My impression is, that Yamaha spent abit more fitting quality parts to the TT.

For example the oil tank comes stock with a temp gauge and a sight glass which makes oil level checks a breeze. It has beefier 46 mm Paoili forks which in theory are more flex resistant. Rear shock is a high-quality Öhlins. A stark contrast compared to the mediocre XT suspension. The rear tire is 18 inch, which allows you to run the serious offroad tires such as Michelin Deserts or Dunlop 908 Rally Raids.

The Deltabox swingarm has grease nipples, so you don't have to pull the whole thing apart to grease it. Same thing with the rubber swingarm protector, its made so it can be replaced without removing the swingarm.

All throughout, the TT has nice small details like that.

Its also a surprisingly stable bike at speed.


Its one of the lightest 600cc thumpers of its era weighing 134 kgs dry. Besides its based on the proven XT600 engine, which was a important as reliability is high on my list.

Another thing was price...for my needs, this was the best buy at the price. Didn't need to go around spending money on proper suspension, etc. I wanted a bike which capabilites didn't limit my offroad adventures, yet was still civilised on the road.


That's difficult to tell. I haven't done any desert trips yet. Normal highway riding in the summer or heavy city riding sees temps rise to 120c which is perfectly fine. I did 900 km in one day, where the last 400 km was on the German Autobahn during a heatwave (38-39 c), where I pushed the bike hard, as I had a deadline. During that time, oil tank temp was a constant 130c. The bike burnt 350 ml of oil, but that was due to the high engine revs I kept for hours at a time. Probably blow-back, as the bike hasnt burnt a single drop since.

I heard from another Hubb member, who contacted Dave Lambeth on the oil cooler issue for desert riding. He said, that the XT would cope fine and no need for an oil cooler.

Yes, I've heard the horror stories. I found that correct valve settings makes the whole difference. Mine starts 2 kicks cold and 1 kick warm. It has a very specific starting procedure though.

Its not tuned any differently, only difference is the engine is narrower by 30 mm, lighter flywheel and crankshaft, bigger carbs and airbox. That's it.

No cush rubbers on the TT, but hasn't bothered me. I guess it comes down to what you're used to.

I've got a Sebring exhaust on mine, which is holding up fine.

The TT isn't a perfect bike though...it vibrates like hell. During the 900 km/ 14 hour day I put in on it, I lost the feeling in my throttle hand for several days afterwards. The seat is narrow and another seat or Airhawk is a must in my opinion. The headlight ain't worth crap...might as well carry a candle lantern on a stick. I'm changing my whole front fairing to a LED set up.

The lack of a battery can be a pain, when wiring up GPS, charger or other electrics. The alternator puts out 185 watts, so consider that too.

The TT is faster than an XT, but a KTM or water cooled XR650R has an extra 15-20 horses on it and will blow it out of the water, both in acceleration and top speed. In reality the TT cruises best at 110 km/h (speedo speed) but will easily hit 130 during passes.

I would have preferred something that handles asphalt better with a higher crushing speed, but I can't afford a bigger/newer/lighter/faster bike. Its what I have and its perfectly capable. So I'll make do with it.

Thanks for the info on the bike. Out of interest what would you have gone for if you had a larger budget?

As we've arrived in 600 single land have you had a look at Chris Scott's website - and in particular his Desert Riders experience with XR650Ls. Lots of stuff there about pros and cons / prep / riding experience etc.

Link to Chris's site - Honda XR650L for Desert Riders | Adventure Motorcycling Handbook

It's true, bump starting in sand is impossible. We rig a tow strap to do this, and even that is hard.

Good news if you can adapt a kick start. Consider costs for the job.

An Oil cooler is good for sure, if installed professionally should be reliable. Try to mount it somewhere out of harm's way.

I have Honda XR-L stories from the 90's and many Baja trips. During this time ... it seemed "everyone" owned an XR650L. If pushed hard they use oil (like most 650 singles run hard). The Honda does not like being even a little bit low on oil.
Keep it topped up and try to use QUALITY synthetic oil when possible.

Other issues were bent or broken sub frames. Many travelers re-enforce the subframe and re-do the battery box. Other than that, all good once you get it jetted right, which was tough for me. In the right hands with the right prep the XR-L can be a stellar travel bike.
bier

backofbeyond thanks for the info on the Chris Scott site, I found it very useful.

Molly what do you mean "re-do the battery box" are you referring to structurally reinforcing this or relocating it elsewhere?