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ditto
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Even if yours has been good and my brothers was bad this is still only two machines and at best, anecdotal evidence. Chatting with the engineers working at a KTM dealership put me off from ever buying one and my brother quickly got rid to buy a Jap 650. Not as quick but it never did let him down. The common consensus is that KTM are riders bikes, great engines, great frames but what lets them down is they're designed to perform, not with maintenance and durability in mind. This is a major problem to me when you're considering an adventure machine. The fuel consumption is also a black mark. It cuts range down considerably and increases weight over a 650.
Ok, it has a bit more power but it's only useful at higher speeds, illegal in most countries except on motorways and it's not the kind of bike built for those roads and is not being bought for that purpose. The 650 class bikes, (ideally singles for simpler maintenance, durability, weight, range and torque) are more useful all-rounders and come into their own when the road surfaces turn into fire-roads or trails. I've had them all ad can say my current 650 is the only one I would trust to go travelling on. |
JTW000, I aint arguing - your right a 600 makes much more sense some would say a 125 makes more sense (Birdy for instance) as it happens I actually prefer the Bilge pump (my r80gs) she is simpler in every respect and she is well sorted and we have done quite a bit of touring to far off places and I would not hesitate to set off anywhere again on her at the drop of a hat, she is easier to ride, more comfy for my wife, and for me the one I would choose to go away on - but that does not take away the experience I had when I toured on the ktm to various places - the bike and the experience of riding her was overall - very good. At the end of the day it really does not matter I suppose - if Groot want a KTM and takes one then he will build his own experience and that may be great or terrible - but it will be his experience. All part of life's little ups and downs.
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You'll no doubt have noticed not many KTM twin owners tend to hang out here, which is a shame but understandable even considering the posts in this thread alone.
For anyone considering these bikes, there is lots of information, good and bad in the Orange Crush forum on Adventure Rider Motorcycle Forum. You don't need to have a KTM to ask questions, if fact you don't even need to have a brother who had one. |
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Thank you for your kind words. There is, no huff, I thought my post was funny - ah well I'll be on my bike...just hope it doesn't fall apart when I get on it, or even worse, fall over...cos it's so heavy I'll never be able to pick it again...
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BTW, welcome to the HUBB :D |
The way I see the bike of choice needs two main qualities.
Fuel range, and weight. However the single and most important requirement, far outweighs all others, is "reliability and ease of repair" All these big bikes are more than powerful enough, so I have discounted power. From the probably the three most popular bikes mentioned, here they are. BMW F800GS KTM 990 Africa Twin 750. All details taken from MCN. 2008 BMW F800GS Specifications Top speed 130mph 1/4-mile acceleration secs Power 85bhp Torque 60ftlb Weight 185kg Seat height 880mm Fuel capacity 16 litres Average fuel consumption 45mpg Tank range 140 miles Insurance group 12 Engine size 798cc Engine specification 8v parallel twin, 6 gears Frame Tubular steel Front suspension adjustment 45mm inverted forks, no adjust Rear suspension adjustment Single shock, preload and rebound damping adjust Front brakes 2 x 300mm discs Rear brake 265mm disc Front tyre size 90/90 x 21 Rear tyre size 150/70 x 21 KTM 990 Adventurer Specifications Top speed 140mph 1/4-mile acceleration 11.03 secs Power 115bhp Torque 71ftlb Weight 196kg Seat height 855mm Fuel capacity 19 litres Average fuel consumption 48mpg Tank range 150 miles Insurance group 17 Engine size 999cc Engine specification 8 valve, 75 degree V-twin Frame Steel trellis Front suspension adjustment Fully adjustable Rear suspension adjustment Fully adjustable Front brakes 2 x 305mm discs Rear brake Front tyre size 120/70 17in Rear tyre size 180/55 17in Last model 2003 Aftica Twin Specifications Top speed 110mph 1/4-mile acceleration 13.9 secs Power 61bhp Torque 46ftlb Weight 202kg Seat height 860mm Fuel capacity 23 litres Average fuel consumption 38mpg Tank range 190 miles Insurance group 12 Engine size 742cc Engine specification 6v V-twin, 5 gears Frame Steel perimeter Front suspension adjustment Preload Rear suspension adjustment Preload, compression Front brakes Twin 276mm discs Rear brake 256mm disc Front tyre size 90/90 x 21 Rear tyre size 140/80 x 17 The Africa Twin is 10 years older than the other 2 bikes, and as such I believe will be far easier to fix. The Africa Twin, gives far greater driving range that any of the others. However the Africa Twin, because it is older, is also a little heavier. BMW = 185 kg KTM = 196 kg AT = 202 kg In the big picture, the Africa Twin isn't that much heavier. In view of all the information, there is but just one sensible choice, and that gents, is the Africa Twin. 'vette |
given the choice of those 3 bikes, I would probably have taken the KTM myself.
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Personal Insults Deleted...
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Now I like the R80gs. I like that a lot and would have gone that way except for a couple of factors. One, they're insanely expensive now, presumably because of their excellent reputation for reliably, durability and simplicity. Secondly, if I was to get one I would face a major overhaul of bearings and gear to prove it (purely to myself) and third it's just old tech. Not that I think that old tech is worse, far from it it's just that my modern 650 single gives the same power with a far lighter overall weight and similar reputation for reliability while giving far better fuel economy. I couldn't justify swapping it in.
I did look into KTM when i was shopping for the right bike. Specs wise I ended up opting for the F800gs which is the absolute perfect adventure bike... until you own one. Then the flaws start to show up, the forums are now full of the minor faults and major ones too. Crying shame, it had so much potential. To ride, the KTM is a good bet but I don't think I could ever trust it. I'm heading a long way from home and every modification i make to my bike is in the order of having one less thing to worry about. I've ended up going for a bike with major design drawbacks but a solid reputation. A year into owning it and it's proved to be very durable and I'd be stupid now to change it. PS... MCN details are not very accurate. The F800gs delivered and average of 65mpg around town and the 880mm seat height doesn't include the fact that after riding 50 miles you feel like you've got pure evil nailed to your arse with rusty tent-pegs. Also the power delivery is odd so the BHP figures don't feel accurate. |
ktm
just my 2 cents on ktm reliability:
I have 70.000 km on a ktm 990 2006, never had any major issues (just the clutch slave cylinder replaced and main relay that burned) services (yeah quite expensive) always done on time and regularly. if you check this guys they left for a trip around the world: ktm 990 more than 100.000 km (62000 miles) with no problems (they list all the spares and services done, look yourelf) http://www.ride-the-world.net/wordpress/?page_id=14〈=en Ktm 950 and 990 have few well known (all minor) issues. if you know them you can leave for a round the world trip 100% assured that you will come back. Have a look to the last 10 years Paris-Dakar all won by Ktm and count how many Bmw's are there ( the number approaches zero), experience in raids definitely goes also in production bikes (and Meoni probably the greatest driver ever was riding a ktm 950 in paris-dakar). Data reported from MCN is definitely wrong, a ktm has a 21 inches front wheel (90/90/21) and a 18 inches rear (150/70/18) i definitely agree that are heavy bikes even more with panniers and some farkles but the only alternative IMO is a mono. |
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That's great but again, anecdotal evidence. Of the people I have spoken to and the articles I have read I don't trust KTM and had to rule them out as a reliable travel machine.
The Dakar is a lousy test of a bike these days. The backup crew, the modifications to the machine make it all about who is throwing the most money in a pot. I read an article about a man entering without a backup crew, just one man, a bike and a toolkit, not that was a good test of a bike and a man. As I said before, KTM make great competition machines, that's what they build but they don't transfer well to adventure touring because to KTM reliability, maintenance, economy and durability are secondary concerns to performance. Nothing wrong with that at all but it does mean they don't suit me. @adventure950 That's great, a lot of gains in power. I have a 650 single for my trip this year but a change in circumstances means my partner is tagging along through a trip around europe so now I'm a bit torn and wish I had a reliable boxer. I love the boxer, it rides like a big single, loads of torque and puts all the bits you need to work on exactly where they should be. Sadly the modern ones are overstuffed with toys that break down so the ones like yours are the ones to have. Of course now I've committed to this bike so we have to make the best of it. I would prefer to be on a bigger machine, the R1100gs still calls me. That's a lot of cash to spend on upgrades but I know what you mean. I got my single for £3200 but it's selling for about £2500 now and I've spent that again on bolted on goodies and still she wants more. Bloody bikes. Mine still has a lousy 9.5 litre tank and a 5l auxiliary so my range is poor. I get 200 miles plus reserve. |
Appreciate all the input on this.
As expected some very different opinions but all in all it seems the majority of KTM users themselves are convinced it is suited for a long trip, despite the shorter service intervals and maintenance issues that are often referred to. Next topic might be KTM 990 vs BMW 800 GS (also referred to above) but no doubt there is information on that elsewhere on here. |
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