mollydog wrote
" I dunno, 26,000 miles service interval is not exactly "uneven". Honda are close to this too with Kaw and
Suz only getting to around 15K miles. Still, not bad IMO, and if you really look at it, in many cases the maintenance is nearly nil."

Where are you buying your tyres and chains from???

also just because i currently ride an old bmw does not mean I actually like them :) My love of bikes are old Brit bikes, but you have to accept the whole ethos with them... so that is just a question of personal preference. If I could choose any bike on the planet, it would be a 1970 Triumph trophy with Thunderbird cams and pistons... But a good one of those is three times the cost of my 1985 BMW :( Someday I may just buy an enfield :)

Go try and buy one of those today. :cursing: And...I sold it cheap. This in
about 1972. Needed money, wasn't riding it. Who can predict the future?

mollydog wrote "Manufacturers really had no choice in this. Both EPA regs
and Euro lll and lV dicated cleaner burning motors. Fact of life and we're all better for it. FACT: a set of barrells and pistons and for MY bike would run into the Thousands, an ECM is about $300 and they rarely fail."
The new Enfield which exceeds the new requirements does not need an engine management system, true they used electronic ignition, but replacement units are £26.50 . Maybe the technology will spread to other manufacturers soon :) , truth is FI is a Marketing requirement, primarily and only really needed when high horsepower is required from modern low quality fuels. The Enfield does 80mpg, so engine efficiency is good.
Secondly a pair of new nicasil barrels and pistons (for my 800cc bmw)run to £320 plus taxes and postage, for an enfield single it is about £220. Again nicasil ( many parts originate in the same factory ) These barrels typically do in excess of 200k Miles. If I had to pay thousands for barrels it would be more than i would pay for agood replacement bike. IE make the bike unmainatinable and irrepairable. This is precisely my point about ownership costs.
I am well aware that an unstable bike will change direction quicker, it is why highly manoeverable fighter aircraft have to be flown by computer, they are too unstable to be flown by man. Is this what you want to ride? When you are tired and hit an unseen obstruction, a bike that is naturally stable is safer and more relaxing to ride. It is one of my three big gripes with the BMW, Too high (both seat and Centre of Gravity), Too heavy and lastly, they put the gear change on the wrong side :)

Having said that the ER500 looks like good value for money :) for most probably a better bike than an Enfield and a tad cheaper new (when discounted) I am surprised they not more popular, but I have never had to live with one.

BMW Bikes
 

I looked into BMW in some depth recently. There was a R1150R Rockster on discount here in Riyadh at a really good price at a local dealer. This is what I found (based on searches of reputable BMW riders forums so far):

BMW appear to be less than forthcoming in respect of design faults, flaws, poor manufacturing runs etc. They basically keep quiet and fix stuff under warranty rather than re-call where possible. This makes it difficult to establish which models and years may have problems. I suppose this is financial sense in some way but can hardly be good for BMW's image in the long term. Most people pay a premium for the model based on an image of BMW reliability and quality. If you buy out of warranty and the engine or transmission grenades then tough luck, sonny.

Recent issues appear to involve clutch and gearbox splines, drive shaft bearings and leaking drive seals on the 1150 and 1200 models. There have been a small but not insignificant number of failures which require partial or complete repair/replacement of the drive shaft assembly, rear hub or clutch/gearbox.

Many owners report thousands of miles of trouble free motoring. A small number report weeping bearings, trashed splines or failed driveshafts, often leading them stranded with major repairs required. Some have had multiple replacements under warranty. There has been no acknowledgement of any problem from BMW in this regard. BMW also uniquely seem to ignore rider feedback and persist in doing their own thing, no matter how often it is critcised.

Many BMW owners (including those who have had bearing and transmission problems) will defend their choice of bike regardless. They will argue that the issues are known, irregular and that preventative maintenance will prevent catastrophic failures (such as pulling the back end and gearbox to inspect the output shaft and clutch splines at 20K ??)

Me? I chose not to buy one. Too much of a 'smell' around the whole subject. If BMW had been more forthcoming and there was some definitive guidance on the whole subject then I would have considered it. I vote with my wallet in respect of perceived unethical corporate attitudes.

I also think the GS bikes are comfortable but very large and heavy and virtually useless in heavy going.

Just my twopence worth..

Just had a good read through this thread - all highly amusing. I have to say that I love these bikes, and although I would never buy an R1100-1200GS to travel where there might be quite a bit of off-road because of the weight and small front wheel, I would consider one for gravel roads with the odd pothole.

Going back to the point of this thread, for me the reputation of the big GSs is largely inflated, if not unfounded as such. There have been some great RTWs on GSs by some of the Heros that have become household names to most of us here (admitedly mostly on airheads). My problem comes in that here in England the bike press routinely come out with the line that the GSs are the only bikes that CAN go RTW. Most of this is since Charley and Ewan went the Wrong Way Round. Before this, the category of bikes now known as 'Adventure Tourers' (first appeared on the side of Honda Transalps) were thought of as irrelevant by the English bike magazines, since they were obviously too slow to be sports bikes and two heavy and fragile to be off-roaders. The R1100GS was well recieved as a road bike, but not as a potential backwater tourer.

Part of the problem here is that rough land touring by bike has been a bit of a fringe activity in the UK. This is mirrored by the fact that (since the demise of the short lived 'Motorcycle Voyager') we have no tourer-specific magazines like Tourenfahrer. More and more magazines are running articles on 'adventure touring', but it's easy enough to see that in most cases the people writing have very little knowledge on what this sort of thing is all about.

The long and the short of it is if the big GSs suit your style of riding and touring (as for Margus) then no other bike is as good. If you need something lighter and more offroad oriented look elsewhere. It was obvious from Ewan and Charley's escapades in Mongolia that they had chosen the wrong bikes (it was not even as if they needed the extra luggage capacity with four wheeled back up). Regardless of reliability issues, choice of the right horse (bike) for the right course (part of the world/route) is an important part of making the trip work. But where there is a will there is a way (or greedy relations....). I just wish people who know nothing of the subject would stop telling me that an R1150GS is the only bike that will make it up a gravel track. I know they are wrong.

Stig

Wow, glad to see this thread re-born!

Excellent sumation of this contentious issue. BTW, BMW have been denying problems since the early 80's. Great analysis! On the money!

If you like BMW's, buy one and go. Bring Money, parts and tools! :helpsmilie: Fact is, any bike will do.

Just my tuppence worth from my GS experience here in South America.

I wouldn´t say the GS 1150 is useless in the rough stuff. Yep its a bloody heavy bike, is a right pain to get parts for but so far mine has been very reliable (touch wood!). It now has 75k miles on it, the previous owners having done a 2 year RTW (2 up) on it.

I´ve been travelling for about 4 months here now and so far tires choice has been limited to Pirelli MT60s. I got an oil filter in Mendoza for 90 pesos while one for my girlfriends KLR650 cost 15pesos. Slight rip off I feel.

Both fork seals blew on rough road in Chile and I got a guy to repair them. He didn´t bleed them and they blew again a few days later. I did them myself and they´ve been fine for the last couple of months.

As for high altitude and crap fuel, my GS hasn´t even noticed, and no, I don´t have one of those expensive chip things in it.

I met a couple of other GS riders recently, one with a GS1200 and another with a GS850, and both have had problems with failed shaft drive bearings. One guy had to wait about a month before he got a replacement shipped from the UK. I haven´t noticed any oil puddles under the shaft yet but its certianly a worry.

As for taking it off road, apart from Routa 40´s, Carreterra Austral etc, I´ve done Bolivia from San Pedro de Atacama to Uyuni where there are large stretches of deep gravel and sand without any roads. That was mostly 1st gear stuff with both feet on the ground but it didn´t go down once. Recently I crossed lava fields on the closed road from Riobamba to Baños in Ecuador which was the hardest things I´ve done on it yet. Guided by 3 (yes 3) locals on a 200cc traily bike, we managed to just get the GS through several very narrow and steep, loose sections where I thought it really was going to disappear over the edge. It was bloody hard work and I would have loved a smaller bike there! However it did get though, but not without the assistance of the locals and it certainly couldn´t have been done on my own. Those lads got a few well earned beers on me that night! I also got the KLR through the same stuff with a little more ease but still needed some assistance.

Anyway, if I was going to do this trip again and knowing what I know now, I reckon I´d definitely take a smaller bike, maybe a DR650 or something. I also get a little tired of being asked ´how much is it worth´all the time here too but given these things look like spaceships compared to what the locals ride, its no wonder.

Great report Mike and kudos to you and your girl on making it through the tough stuff.

This is only one more point on the graph of course, but I recently completed a 10,000 mile trip from London to Nepal on a R1200GS without problems. I thought it was an astonishingly capable bike. Very comfortable on the tarmac, and frankly amazing on gravel. No mechanical problems.

It's very expensive but that's really the only downside in my limited experience.

steve

Vstrom weight
 

Mollydog,

I am all for everyone finding their bike - their own bike for them and there are many different options of course... And, you always speak so highly of your Suzuki and other bikes for certain but seem to constantly crap on BMW - I know I know you've had and ridden a few and I know the reasons as I follow these threads. Your choice of course.

You constantly mention the weight of the GS's and how heavy they are and in this thread you mentioned the 1000 Vstrom was 75lbs less than the 1150... I think that is a little off but... the 1200 lists out as 25 pounds lighter than the current Suzuki Vstrom 1000. In fact it looks like the 1200 ADv model is actually only 11lbs heavier for the extra tank and gear and capabilities.

Am I missing something? Or, did I get it wrong?

Sincerly :mchappy:

Dean

When someone has made the choice to drop $17,000 usd on a motorcycle it is rare you will ever hear them berate their pride and joy.

no bad bike
 

Hi guys , I am abit surprised by the attitude on this kind of thread. I owned many bikes some better than the other but my point is if you ride on two wheels you are on the right bike. I used this site to pick my last bike and even if I heard ton of bad think about BMW instead of Vstroom or other, I picked the 1200GS , I can't say anything about the bike except that the bike perform very well and is very confortable with passenger and luggages, the breaking is perfect too. I owned bike which famous for engine problem (old Ducati /triumph..)
I feel sometime that the ego of some riders is talking a bit too much ( anti this /pro that,bla bla bla) , lets try to give real feedback and instructive comments. Arround the world I met guys riding 125 ,scooter and other zundap , its all the same for me I wave and smile at all ,without judging their mount.
And I don't write this because I own a BMW ,I aslo have a XR650R,KTM450SXF,Triumph bonnevil in my garage at this time
Hendi

I enjoy these types of threads when they're done with the right attitude.
If the bike(s) I own have problems, I want to learn about it/them.
Just the facts ma'am, please. Don't hide anything from me....

It's normal human nature for somebody to defend a bike they own, especially one they've recently purchased. Bike, oil, swimming pool, roof, clothing, etc...all the same.

Some people are brand 'branded', meaning they are very into that marque, enjoying it and living with whatever faults it may have. Many people are into this and whatever makes you feel good...is good. It's hard for some to not promote their chosen dope to others, as if it's the solo truth, not just a personal addiction for fun. Understanding the difference...is the difference. I hope this makes sense...

It's all good. Blind is foolish.

I agree Lone Rider , if you love a certain bike and are aware of it's shortcomings and are prepared to compensate for that ,then you will be a happy camper [or biker !] .

This forum is great place to share knowledge and learn from the experience of others .

Keeping an open and objective mind is crucial .

All machines will break down sooner or later , what you are prepared to accept in terms of reliabilty and what you are prepared to pay for your bike is your decision .

Vive la difference !