How the hell do I get my car back to the UK?
 

I'm a British citizen driving a British registered car. I've been out of the EU for 3.5 years, and I've just returned. And the nightmare begins, straight away. I am sitting at the Estonian border (Navra) with a car that no-one will insure.

Basically, I can't buy insurance here as they will only insure Estonian cars. The same story on the Russian side of the border. I seem to fall into a bit of a grey area with the DVLA as the car is not permanently exported from the UK, as I have not formally become resident in any other country.

Trying to get insurance from the UK seems just as problematic... there's always some catch..

-limited EU cover,
-won't insure a vehicle over 15 years (it's 17)
-won't insure me as I have no NCB
-won't insure a vehivle which is outside the UK.

There seem to be foreign companies out there which insure EU vehicles (e.g. ADAC in Germany), but I have to apply there in person.

So, is there any way to insure my car? Right now, I'm just making a quick dip into the EU. I will probably end up leaving the car here at the border and going for a few weeks to Poland, but next year I will have to go back to the UK, with the car. With the car not taxed, no MOT, it looks like I have no means to legally return with it.

Daniel

Cant help with your insurance woes Daniel, but when the time comes to return to the UK, why not stick it on a truck?
Plenty of UK trucks deliver to the EU and then scratch around for a return load.

George Whites near Mansfield do regular runs of small loads to France, SW mostly, in curtain sided artics and charge about £100 per pallet space (1 sq m?)
Here's the web contact page: Contact Us - George White European - Removals and Transport UK - France. You may be able to haggle a good price.

Best of luck,
John

slightly false documents, and buy some estonian reg plates for when you cross into the UK?

the DVLA will no doubt have a large fine waiting for your if you haven't SORN'd the car ? or maybe you did.

does it really matter if you have no means to legally return it ? then again, ANPR is all over the place these days so I guess you're asking for trouble coming back under your original reg plates.

you could always get back to the UK (eg, Dover), drive a few miles and then disable the car. Call the breakdown service that you conveniently joined a week or so before hand, and get them to trailer your car back. You'd need to disable it in an unfixable/obscure way, such as a hidden disconnected ignition wire or something. you could even get euro-breakdown cover, and do it abroad ?

I attempted this with the RAC, and it backfired expensively in Spain. However, that was a motorbike, and I've come to believe the RAC hate motorbikes. the idea was sound in principle... but make sure you understand the T's and C's (particularly the 'if it can be fixed at any cost locally' clause..!)

The idea was not sound in principal. The idea is, in fact, fraud--in the USA, felony fraud (although I don't know how it's named in Europe or Britain). Perhaps RAC does hate motorbikes....but probably there are other explanations you might consider, including that they're a step or two ahead of you.

My first thought was trucking the car, as others suggest. My second thought is to go wherever you need to go to take care of whatever paperwork need dealing with. It sounds like you can do what you need to do in Germany, yes? It's an easy trip, as is England (on whatever discount airlines are currently feeding bachelor parties into the Baltics).

If I'm missing any crucial bits and pieces, please feel free to ignore.

Mark

yes, I'm a criminal who deserves everything... jeez...

by the way, they weren't one-step ahead. the BMW dealer assumed unlimited funds (of me) and said they could fix it (leaking clutch slave seal), for a mere €1200 ! more thievery... and you suggest I'm a criminal...

Shoot, I'm not suggesting anything at all: I'm just repeating back what you posted a scant hour ago. You report you tried to defraud RAC but that it didn't work. Were I in your shoes I'd not be advertising this on an international, public access forum. However, risk assessment varies. as we all know.

I've nothing to say about what you might or might not deserve. That's not for me to decide. I'm just commenting on your advice to the OP, which I find a wee bit shaky on legal and moral grounds.

Better luck next time you break down.

Mark

Do you WANT insurance? or just something (cert.) to show border/police.

SORN is not a 'legal' solution.
The Law (The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002), which covers SORN, does not allow this.
To be under SORN the vehicle must be in the UK although not on a road maintained at public expense. If a vehicle is not in the UK, SORN declarations are not correct and should they find out, no doubt the DVLA will make far greater claims for penalties and possible charges for making false declarations.

And putting it on a truck may not be a foolproof soloution as it will mean UK Customs will have a declaration of the truck's cargo and report the vehicle's re-importation - thus proving it had been outside UK and therefore not eligible for the SORN Declaration previously made.
False declaration = fraud?

The Law and DVLA's attitude are a thorough mess for longer term travellers - not helped by blatently incorrect information given out by DVLA and DirectGov websites who are wrongly seeking to collect taxes/penalties/etc that are not due under Acts of Parliament.

I summarised my understanding of the whole situation of SORN, MOT, Registration, etc in Post 89 on this thread http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...g-term-39472-6

There has been nothing further on the 'apparent solution' we found for my friend. She plans driving her car back to UK at some point in 2011. I will be watching closely and advise the thread.

Try contacting Adrian Flux Insurance services - I have no connection to them other than having used them in the past they are very very helpful and knowledgible and seem to have extensive knowledge of specialist insurance services and already provide insurance and no claims for persons working outside of the UK for extended periods. They if anyone I can think of might be able to provide some kind of cover note till you get home they are on 0800 3698590 or e mail contactus@adrianflux.co.uk hpoe they can help you along. Jake.

you can get insurance in Russia for 15 days for a minimal cost, then just drive back to the UK.

Actually you can get 15 day insurance in most countries, not sure why Estonia doesnt offer this- I know for a fact that Lithuania does this- 15 day car insurance for something in the region of £10, obviously this will cover you all the way to the UK and in the UK as it's an EU wide policy

yeah, I didn't mean it as a solution at all. just that the guy may want to check if he's in for a fine when he gets home and tries to do anything with the original vehicle/plate. I wasn't suggesting SORN'ing it. Due to no real legal way of leaving the country for a few years with your vehicle (without export), the DVLA are utterly inflexible.

cheers

Dmitri - the insurance in Russia as far as I know is only valid in Russia. When I contacted insurers they said that the Russian issued Green Cards / EU policies are only valid for CIS registered vehicles (e.g. Rus, Bel, Ukr, Kaz etc).

Ten quid for 2 weeks of EU cover sounds a bit cheap! If you can tell me where to find this (Riga??) I'm there...

Daniel

In Riga I'm not sure, but in Lithuania go to any insurance company and they will do two weeks cover, you need proof of ownership and driving licence. Insurance companies have offices all over the place, just ask a local.

I was a little skeptical about getting insurance in Lithuania, so I emailled the Lithuanian insurance bureau or something, and they confirmed the same as here in Estonia, that by international law, they may not insure a vehicle at all from another EU country.

If you car is from Russia, or Brazil, or Equatorial Guinea, fine. But it is no, according to them, possible to insure a car from another EU country.

Daniel (now decided not to go back to rip-off Britain, another year in Asia pleas, wahey!)

Sorry to hear of your continuing problems.

I too get so frustrated with EU/UK 'rules'. Russian burocracy is at times an absolute nightmare, exceeding even Kafka's The Citadel. But Russia is a surprisingly free country where people are far more unrestricted by State(s).
Thats why I prefer to live there more than UK now.

Back to you -
Why can't you arrange insurance of your UK registered vehicle on-line with a UK broker/insurer?

As stated before, UK policies include minimum legal cover throughout EU.
If the online firms do not deal with non-UK orginating messages, look up "Proxy Server" or get an Internet Cafe Geek to do it for you.

If they still won't do it on-line there are regular Easyjet/Ryanair type flights from Tallin, Riga, Vilnius, etc to UK, so you can walk in and do it 'in person' showing them your face, proof of identity and UK address and the vehicle ownership/keeper documentation.

If your vehicle is 'too old' what about trying the appropriate Owners Club or a Historic or Specialist Vehicle Club? They often have their own relationships with Insurers.

Just ideas!
Good luck.

Yes, even the apalling Russian bureaucracy has a human face compared to the 'computer says no' western regime.

I have found people who will insure the car, but I just wanted 2 weeks of cover to hope across the Baltic states to Kaliningrad and then to Belarus. And in the UK of course, computer said NO. Short term insurers would not insure the car as it is not in the UK at the start of the policy.

No big deal really, it just took a long time to find a broker, and I was wondering how I'd ever get the car back when I finally work up the strength to go back to that bloody island.

Thanks for all the info anyhow.

Daniel

I got pulled by the rozzers in germany and didn't have my registration documents with me. they cut off my number plates and refused to allow me to drive the vehicle until I could prove the vehicle was mot'd, insured etc. the way I got round this was to register the vehicle temporarilly in germany with temporary german plates. next to the registration office was a place I could get temporary insurance. this covered me all the way back to the UK and for a few days once back
this could be your solution

That sounds interesting... what were you driving / riding? Was it from the ADAC? Maybe I will avoid Germany then! I reckon the Italians and French are probably less fussy about this?

Could be good though, was it expensive to temporarily register the vehicle and buy the insurance?

Daniel

I have done it quite a few times when I go there to buy vehicles...

Last one, 08/10, cost me €90 for 5 day plates including the insurance.
You don't actually register the vehicle in Germany. They give you a blank booklet that YOU fill in with the VIN etc.

The plates are pressed with the expiry date and you must be out of Germany by the end of that day.
The insurance is just the basic 3rd party liability.

Once back here, I run around on the DE plates until the FR rego is completed - 4-6 weeks - though I do insure it here, also on the DE plates.

This translation of the tech words may help you... Kfz-Zulassungsstelle - English translation - bab.la German-English dictionary

Cheers,
John

it's a cautionary tale for all! travelling to far flung places and always making sure I have got everything thoroughly researched and all my paperwork in triplicate I got a bit blase about travelling in europe.

I was pulled on the A2 that goes from poland to hanover about 2330 one night on my way back from poland. 2 unmarked cars with 4 plain clothes coppers boxed me in and escorted me off the motorway. They checked my documents but I only had the new keepers supplement and didn't have my insurance docs with me(I'd picked up the wrong ones in my rush to get off). the new keepers supplement apparently doesn't count. they therefore said they would impound my vehicle until the could obtain information from DVLA. I was not to leave germany and they needed a 400 euros bond. he showed me his id but as it was german it could have been his library card for all I knew so even if I had the money, which I didn't, I wouldn't have handed it over. I asked how long this would take, he said minimum 5 days if no problems. I looked deeply suicidal and explained my wife was heavilly pregnant back home and about to drop (which was true).
the solution we came to was the temporary registration. they cut off my number plates, which was a pain as they were riveted on and told me not to move the vehicle. 0500 the next morning saw me tabbing 15km to the nearest town where I could get it sorted out.

the cost was about the same as above, 90 or so euros.

I asked the head rozzer why they pulled me and apparently they regularly pull british cars on this road as they are often driven by Poles or Lithuanians who don't have the correct documentation or no insurance or MOT.

I was in my VW polo by the way! nothing flash. I was returning from taking my niece home after she had visited the UK. UK-Poland and back in 2 days, including being pulled!