I re-call Paul Gowan – now long-gone RAC Carnet Officer – telling me once that they had some nasty experiences (read: excessive and unacceptable claims) from carnet holders who were buying vehicles in the UK and importing these into the Subcontinent countries - Pakistan & India - then disposing (selling) them on when they arrived in the region.

Needless to say, these 'travellers’ were defaulting on their carnets, and according to Paul, these scammers then simply dissapeared off the radar. The RAC had to pay-up and settle a lot of claims as a result; hence the high cost of obtaining an RAC-issued carnet for the rest of us.

Racketeering at the RAC’s expense perhaps?

Maybe all a BS story .. but sounded credible to me at the time.

FWIW - setting aside the reletively high costs of RAC carnets, my experiences with them have been mostly okay (justabout!)
.

Hi all,
And please be careful that what you say on this forum are things that anyone in RAC (or ADAC) could read.

I know from the past that at least one RAC person was on the forum members, and DID read some comment about somebody saying they were going to do something "tricky"....

Of course it is DEFINITELY fine to express your unhappiness with RAC on these matters.
And how awesome ADAC is.

Alan

I've got some good news,

I just got this email directly from the Australian customs:

"Hi xxxxx

Mr McGowan has now produced proof of export of his vehicle.

I refer to a letter from the carnet holder of 20 December 2014 offering evidence of proper discharge of the goods imported under the above-mentioned carnet.

The evidence has been accepted and the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service is satisfied all obligations under the Customs Convention on the Temporary Importation of Private Road Vehicles have been met.

Our claim relating to the above carnet is withdrawn.

Kind Regards

xxxxxxx
Customs Officer
Australian Customs and Border Protection Service
National Temporary Imports & Securities"

So it took me 48 hours to clear a claim, with an email sent at the weekend,

Now its time to hold the RAC accountable for claiming on my Bank Guarantee without notifying me!!

oh and to get my money back with interest ;-)

Hi All

We now have around 70 signatories to our petition, once we hit 100,

I shall send the petition and a separate letter to the following:

CEO of the RAC,
FIA
AIT

It would be fantastic if you could help us reach 100 in the next couple of days....

Sign the petition here:
https://www.change.org/p/fia-break-t...ter-rac-carnet


I wonder if anything the RAC is doing is breaking these basic rules:

Competition law – an introduction
The law aims to promote healthy competition. It bans anticompetitive agreements between firms such as agreements to fix prices or to carve up markets, and it makes it illegal for businesses to abuse a dominant market position

I've sent a polite email to the Carnet dept at the RAC requesting a no objection waiver. The auto reply I received said I would get a response in 5 working days - so, sometime after Xmas.

I will obviously share whatever info I get back.

Dave

Hi,
I posted about this on the UK BMW GS1200 forum UKGSer.com.
Mentioned the issues and the petition.

Hopefully we get some names from that.

It's a UK issue only, so I don't think the Adventure Rider Forum would be as good, but I will post there as well.
Maybe a few UK riders will see it.

Alan

I got a reply, but not the answer I want:

Good afternoon and thank you for your email. Please see attached which you may have seen on our website, the reason why we no longer accept bank guarantee’s as a payment option. Also the reason below shows when we would give other issuing clubs permission to issue a Carnet on our behalf.

In line with the Carnet Convention, all CPD guaranteeing and issuing associations of the AIT and FIA are bound by a multilateral Guarantee Agreement which sets down all conditions for the guarantee and issue of Carnets de Passages en Douane.

An Association will issue Carnet documents only in respect of vehicles registered in the country of the Issuing Association. If, exceptionally the above condition is not met, the Issuing Association which receives the request for a Carnet must consult the Issuing Association in the other country concerned as necessary in order to ensure that adequate guarantees and permission is obtained.

We have made a decision as the issuing club for the UK, and to ensure we are following the guidelines of the agreement that we will now only provide permission for other clubs to issue Carnets on our behalf in exceptional circumstances. An example of an exceptional request could be; an application being part of an overall rally application the other club is issuing Carnets for where it makes sense that they issue all of the Carnets required for rally.

Hope this helps,

Ian Bridges
Carnet De Passage Customer Care Executive

I've replied showing my frustration (politely) and asking for greater clarity; apart from the example of an international rally, what other reasons would the RAC consider issuing a letter of no objection to ADAC issuing a CdP to me?

No reply yet. I'll keep you posted.

Dave

That's not good,

I am sending out the petition today, but i expect it will take around a month to get some answers,

Firstly it will go to the RAC, FIA and AIT.

If we have no luck then i will raise a formal complaint with CMA Competition & Markets Authority,which i expect would take even longer....

We will need our CDP for Africa this time next year...(Still in Euroland on the road) So fingers crossed and thanks for the good work you are putting in.

The Mrs is German and we have friends in NL..would just be nice to get it sorted in the UK..if not, then maybe we will register the truck somewhere else...as i say .. fingers crossed,

Also cross posted at http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...f-please-79743 and shared on Facebook just now. Might be easier to find in a new thread too.

shared on our facebook page and signed.

Our experience was pretty poor also. When I tried to extend my CDP 3 months ago it was really difficult to get answers. The RAC wanted a new insurance indemnity AND new carnets (Land Rover & Trailer) costing us the same as the initial amount.

We got permission from the AAA here in Australia to renew, filled out the forms and then they said it needed to be approved by the RACV here in Victoria. Well, I knew it was going to go south and cost us a heap so I started down the road of a permanent import. Well, 4 weeks later I had gained the VIA approval, paid customs and duty, had the vehicle engineered approved, roadworthy and registered. All before I had even had a response from the RACV! Then I got a reply saying they needed approval from someone in Canberra and the RAC along with themselves. I just laughed and told them I had permanently imported the vehicle for less than the cost of a 12 month extension.

The situation is laughable.

G

Dont hold hour breath with the FIA. I tried twice, Nov 13 and Feb 14.

See http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...tart=20#391660

Hopefully we will get somewhere this time,

I am in contact with both C Woodhouse the Chief Executive of the RAC, and the FIA.

If the they dont play ball, i have already sought advice from the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) to take it a stage further.

If that does not work then it will be on to the European commission,

It will take time but we have to exhaust all possible routes before giving in ;-)

Many thanks to all those who have supported the petition to the RAC & Others (FIA, CMA, FCA, EU Commission)

The RAC Complaints Department and the CEO have received the Petition and have promised to respond in the first week of January.

We now have 380 signatures which is fantastic, thank you,

We are not expecting a positive response from the RAC, we will need to take it one step at a time through each organisation.

The more signatories we have on the petition the more likely it is that the organisations will start listening, so please do keep sharing and if you have not signed it already, it would be great if you could.

Any media buzz you can create would be beneficial to show these organisations that we are not backing down on this…

Many thanks for all your support.

Martin & Nicole

https://www.change.org/p/european-co...net?lang=en-GB

Shared in a few places... Fingers crossed and thanks again for putting the time in.

428 signatures now

I'm going to ask the RAC for permission to apply via the ADAC.
I will point out that I want to take the same vehicle (except older and thus less valuable) on the same route: thru Egypt.

And that their cost is much higher than ADAC's for exactly the same thing.

The RAC is a private company: owned by the Carlyle Group, which is an AMERICAN equity group. They are NOT non-profit, and not even UK based.

Carlyle bought the RAC from AVIVA in 2011, and I suspect the changes to the CDP were due to that. They want to make a profit and are not interested in providing a service for its own sake per se, especially not if it's a small group (I read in a post that about 400 UK CDP's were issued annually).

I think that there could be an argument made for anti-competition. When you register a vehicle as UK, then THAT forces you by the FIA rules to go to the RAC. So it's really the FIA that's at fault there.

I just checked and on the RAC's site itself there is a link to the UK Ombudsman:
Financial Ombudsman Service: Banking, Insurance & Pensions Ombudsman UK

Since this is an insurance related item, then it does fall under their scope.

Reply from the Monopolies people...
 

As the title suggests.

I got a reply from the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA), who are the monopolies people.

The stuff I have posted on Adventurebikerider.

This was my original letter.... http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...tart=20#391660

This was their reply, including the very useful links they provided, and my re-reply...... http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...tart=30#393483

I appear to be have placed in the too difficult/zero priority pile.

Feel free to right to them using the same sentiments but please do not cut and paste - it looks cheap.

Ray

https://www.change.org/p/european-co...vellers-better

Please see below an extract from the RAC's response in regards to the Petition and complaint lodged with them.

As expected it was not positive.

It is interesting to read that they state that the issuance of the Carnet is not covered under the FCA, CMA or the EC.

I shall need to clarify this in due course.

Further to the RAC's reply, I shall now forward the petition and a letter of complaint to the FAI and wait for their response.

The petition now has over 450 signatories which is a fantastic response, however it would be wonderful to have more. So if you could please continue to share this petition it would be really appreciated.

Many thanks for all of your support

Martin & Nicole
(if you would like to chat with us or have any ideas on how to progress the complaint feel free to contact us through our Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/OverlandSphere/ or on any of the forum posts out there)

"Dear Mr McGowan,

I write in response to your email of 30 December to Chris Woodhouse, who has asked me to respond on his behalf.

As you rightly point out, RAC reviewed the carnet scheme that it operates in 2013 to address a number of historic issues that had been causing administrative issues both for RAC and for carnet-holders. We are confident that our customer service has improved during this period and that the system and documentation are now a lot clearer. We always welcome any feedback on specific issues and always invite people to raise specific concerns they may have on customer service with us. We have responded in full to the complaints that we have received from yourself and are satisfied that the customer service that you have received has been prompt and efficient.

We regret that other carnet-holders feel that they have not received prompt responses and have chosen the petition as a way of raising their concerns. We are unable to comment on their individual circumstances in correspondence with you, and would urge them to write to us directly with their specific concerns so that we can examine their individual issues and respond in full.

From 2013 we have made some changes to the way that we calculate vehicle values and to our terms and conditions. All changes have been made in conjunction and under the advice of the FIA and our insurers and are in line with our obligations under the carnet scheme. The changes only applied for new carnets and we have included updated information on our website and communicated the changes to all customers when they have contacted us for new carnets.

You are correct that RAC has removed the option to secure carnets via cash deposit and bank guarantees for commercial reasons. The time taken in processing carnets and claims that were secured by this method and the relatively small numbers of individuals who chose to take up those options made these options financially unviable for RAC.

You mention that the insurance does not provide any “cover” for the carnet holder because the insurer can still pursue the carnet-holder. This is correct – a carnet-holder cannot expect any “cover” for failure to perform an action (export the vehicle) which is completely within their own control.

By taking out a carnet, the carnet-holder is making a contract with RAC promising to export their vehicle from that country. The security, in whatever format, is intended to cover RAC’s liability to the customs authority to ensure that the customs authority receives the relevant import duties. However, the individual is still in breach of contract to the RAC and the RAC (or its insurer) is therefore entitled to recover any damages that it suffers as a result of this failure.

If a customer wished to get cover for their failure to export a vehicle, they would need to seek this elsewhere as this is not the aim of the carnet scheme. However, we are not aware of any insurance company that would provide cover against a deliberate act of breach of contract. You may be able to acquire insurance against events that would prevent the return of the vehicle, but again this is not the aim of the carnet scheme and you would need to take your own advice as to how best to address this risk.

Refusal to allow UK car owners to access alternative services in the EU

You are no doubt aware that the carnet scheme is operated under an international Customs Convention and operated by the FIA. In participating in the carnet scheme, RAC is bound by the terms of that convention and the rules of the FIA. As you have correctly identified, all clubs have recently been reminded by the FIA that the letters of Non-Objection should only be issued in exceptional circumstances. We therefore have no option but to comply with this. See Section 3, AIT/FIA Guarantee Agreement/ART.10 – Procedures for protection of the system:

a) An Association will issue AIT/FIA documents only in respect of vehicles registered in the country of the issuing Association. If, exceptionally the above condition is not met, the issuing Association which receives the request for a carnet must consult the Association in the other country concerned as necessary in order to ensure that adequate guarantees are obtained.

Therefore Carnets may be issued to residents of countries where there is no issuing club and also if written authorisation is received from the issuing club in which the vehicle is licensed, however, we would only grant permission in exceptional circumstances. Unless exceptional circumstances are proven we would be unable to provide you or members of Overland Sphere a letter of non-objection for the ADAC.

We note your comments on this issue and have already passed on comments of this nature from our customers to the FIA but we remain bound by their guidance.

You mention in your email that you consider this to be “in breach of Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) rules, Financial Conduct authority Rules & the European Commission’s rules by preventing UK vehicles owners from 1) accessing alternative services providers in Europe & 2) access to alternative financial products and services not offered in the UK”.

The carnet scheme is not a financial product and does not include any element of insurance for individuals or any other financial services element. Therefore this product is not governed by the FCA.

In relation to your comment about the CMA and the EC; these are not relevant to the carnet scheme as RAC is essentially performing a public function of general economic interest under the Convention.
Therefore we are not carrying on a commercial activity that would be caught by the EU competition rules – issuing clubs do not compete against each other in an economic market for the issuing of carnets in the same way that individual EU Member State government entities do not compete against each other for the issuing of passports to their citizens.

As a final comment, we note that the petition contains many references to RAC holding a monopoly on carnets. RAC are indeed the only organisation that issues carnets in the UK. This is not a circumstance of our own making and we have not sought exclusivity on provision of carnets. It is open to the FIA to appoint other issuing authorities and, indeed, the AA did provide carnets historically.

Whilst we are unable to comment on reasons why other entities may not wish to provide carnets, we would point out that the carnet scheme is very burdensome in terms of administration of carnets, individual customers’ issues and claims. We make very little in the way of profit from carnets and have only chosen ourselves to continue to offer the product to support motorists and our ambition to be the Motorists’ Champion. For this reason it is particularly disappointing that we have received a complaint of this nature, which largely relates to issues that are beyond the control of the RAC. "

I read this earlier via email....

As expected i suppose. I get the whole worldwide and not an EU thing, but would still question it.

The bit that made me chuckle was how it appeared they were doing us a favour as for them its a lot of hassle and they don't make money...WELL DO US ALL A FAVOUR AND BACK OUT OF OFFERING THE SERVICE JUST LIKE THE AA HAVE DONE....THEN OUR NEAREST PLACE TO GET A CARNET WILL BE THE ADAC..Simple, there you go, i have sorted the whole problem...:D

Sent the complaint and petition to Jean Todt the president of the FIA and the management of the FIA in Europe,

Lets hope they actually respond,

I really do wonder whether they will respond positively or not given the FIA's objective is "to promote safe travel, to promote freedom of mobility and to encourage sensible, sustainable tourism worldwide"

Given the application of their policies is going against the above, i really do hope they see sense.....


https://www.change.org/p/european-co...ter?lang=en-GB

I signed the petition as I have previously had correspondence with RAC on this issue. Really we need to be complaining to the FIA and RAC should also be complaining to the FIA on our behalf, after all they seemingly don't make money on carnets, and it's a major hassle for them.

I think the next stage after complaining to the FIA is to complain to the European Competition Commission about the FIA's convention not letting automotive clubs compete on carents. RAC may see the issuing of carents as public service and non-commercial activity, but isn't necessarily how a judge would see it. Furthermore, in their response to you the RAC state "We make very little in the way of profit from carnets" That sounds like a commercial activity to me.

From what I understand, the RAC also issues carnets for Irish registered bike too, to they are also being stuffed by the withdrawal of the guarantee.

I haven't yet asked ADAC if they would supply a carnet to an Irish registered bike, after all the convention doesn't stop them since technically they don't have their own issuing body (they use the UK's)

Maybe the whole Carnet system will become centralised one day....

" If an alternative issuer is not identified the CAA operation will close on March 31, 2015. New clients will be obliged to wait for the FIA to launch its centralized issuing department expected in the third quarter of 2015."

Press release from Software Company
Maxxor facilitates cross-border travel through automation of FIA processes | ITWeb

Project Plan
ISSUU - Cpd project overview mind maps v1 2 by Gerald Geoff Elske

I recieved a futher reply from the CMA. Another waste of time.
Below is the full text of our e-mails and at the bottom some of the links they sent me. Sadly, boring reading but it is what it is.

My original submission:-

Dear Sir /Madam,

Hi, I am a world travelling motorcyclist and my enquiry is regarding the RAC's monopoly on obtaining a Carnet de Passages (CDP) in the UK.

Being realistic, and without trying to be rude you may not know what a CDP is - it is not something that many of us need.
To explain the CDP, it is an administrative system that allows persons worldwide to temporarily take their vehicles through certain countries without paying importation or registration fees. Most countries in the world have a motoring organisation (in the case of the UK it is the RAC) who have the responsibility of administering this system. It is based on a deposit system where the deposit is (or was as is the case now) refunded upon the vehicle legally being returned to the country of origin, this being verified via the customs authority.

The RAC, up until sometime in 2012/13 had in place a system whereby the cost was made up of a document payment, an administration fee and thirdly a deposit. It is the deposit that is the problem and this fee can be colossal.
The deposit is based on a multiplier of the value of your vehicle and ranges from 1.5x e.g. for Australia, all the way to 8x for Egypt (for an £8,000 motorcycle it is £64,000). The excessive cost is to cover the huge fees and costs levied by a country, should the vehicle be left, illegally, on their soil. For this reason most travelling vehicles are old, using a newish vehicle being reserved for the rich.
Previously a UK resident could either:
1) pay the full deposit up to a maximum of £10,000 direct to the RAC and get it back on return to the UK, or
2) arrange a bank guarantee to ring-fence/freeze funds in the applicants bank to cover the deposit to the benefit of the RAC should a claim be made by a foreign country, or
3) Pay a fee of 10% of the deposit to an insurance company (one had to fill in a application form to the company and process it through the RAC). 50% (half) of this cost being refunded upon the vehicles return.

In this last item, the insurance company was a specific one designated by the RAC and this to my mind was a monopoly. It was also the one taken by people who did not have sufficient funds to supply a deposit or a bank guarantee.

Now however, the RAC have removed the deposit and bank guarantee and will only allow the 'insurance' that they now call a security. It is also now 10.6% of which, 50% of that (i.e. 5.3%) is refunded on vehicle return.
Going back to our £8,000 motorcycle through Egypt, this, on top of fees, would cost almost £3,400. A fee that previously could have been circumvented.

It is however quite possible and legal to use another countries carnet service and this is regularly done by persons coming from a country that do not have a qualifying automobile association. One in question is the ADAC in Germany. They still have the deposit system in place and our £8,000 motorcycle would have to pay a fully refundable deposit of a mere £2500.
It was at one time possible for UK residents to use this organisation however this has now been stopped, presumably following complaints from the RAC as the ADAC will only now accept applications from UK residents accompanied by a letter of "no objection" from the RAC. Needless to say these are not forthcoming from a company that stands to profit over £3,000 from our above biker.
Unlike the US AAA who appear to give them out freely. See www.adventurebikerider.com/forum/26-trav...imit=10&start=10

The organisation overseeing this system is The Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) in France. I have written to them twice on this matter, in November 2013 and February 2014. I have had no reply to my e-mails.

To my mind this system, which I believe was drawn up prior to most of the EU integration, is an unfair monopoly and flies in the face of current EU cross border trade and fairness.

Will you please look at this advice me and my fellow travellers accordingly.

Yours sincerely,

Ray Hall QPM


The first reply:-


Mr Ray Karen Hall
Email: General.Enquiries@cma.gsi.gov.uk
Telephone: 020 3738 6000
05 January 2015
Dear Mr Hall
Royal Automobile Club – Carnet de Passages
Thank you for your email sent to the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) on 29th December 2014.
As requested, we have noted your complaint and brought it to the attention of our pipeline/intelligence teams. We use the intelligence we gather, alongside our Prioritisation Principles (www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-p...itisation-principles), to develop our pipeline of new projects and programmes of work and make the best use of CMA resources in terms of real outcomes for UK consumers.
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
Yours sincerely

Alan Sullivan
Contacts Team
Competition and Markets Authority



As you can probably guess, I have been given the elbow in the form of 'our priorities' etc so I suppose we will be at the bottom of the pile forever.

We will see.

I replied thus:-


Dear Mr Sullivan,

Thank you for your informative reply and the appropriate links.
However, you do not seem to have provided any advice as was my main request.
Having been a police officer for most of my life I understand priorities and sadly in real terms it means that the least popular (numerically) complaints/problems go to the bottom of the pile and stay there at each shuffle.
I would suggest that, as muted in my original text, this is not a problem you will often recieve correspondence about and as such will never be dealt with.
What I am saying is that without your help or advice, this problem will proceed unchecked indefinitely and putting it in with "Prioritisation Principles" will ensure that it is never addressed.
This will never be a problem to vehicle bourne travellers like Jeremy Clarkson or Ewan McGreggor but it does affect those of us on more normal incomes.
Please provide us with some advice that we may tackle the RAC from a position of knowledge.

Yours sincerely
Ray Hall QPM

The CMA's second response:-


Dear Mr Hall
Royal Automobile Club – Carnet de Passages
Thank you for your further email sent to the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) on 6th January 2015.
Your additional comments have been noted. However, I should stress that the CMA has no power to intervene in individual disputes or seek redress on behalf of consumers or businesses, and you may wish to seek your own independent legal advice. Given the nature of your complaint, we would suggest you may also wish to bring your concerns to the attention of the relevant Trading Standards Service (TSS). Details of how to report a problem to TSS are available via the Citizens Advice consumer service website at:
www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_protection_for_the_consu mer_e/protection_trading_standards_e/reporting_a_problem_to_trading_standards.h tm
The CMA is required to use its powers to promote competition for the benefit of consumers generally. It has no function of protecting individual consumers from malpractice or individual businesses from anti-competitive behaviour. The CMA has full information gathering powers to enable it to perform its functions, and does not depend on receiving unsolicited complaints about traders and businesses. It has no duty to consider complaints.
The CMA nonetheless appreciates the voluntary provision of information about practices in the market place. It always reads and acknowledges receipt of such information, and records it for use if and when relevant to an investigation or other action. But it makes no promise whatever that any action will be taken in response to the provision of such information.
However, we have noted the further information you have provided and brought it to the attention of our pipeline/intelligence teams. We use the intelligence we gather, alongside our Prioritisation Principles (www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-prioritisation-principles), to develop our pipeline of new projects and programmes of work and make the best use of CMA resources in terms of real outcomes for UK consumers.
Thank you again for bringing this matter to our attention.

Yours sincerely
Alan Sullivan
Contacts Team Competition and Markets Authority

I followed the links in the initial reply and found this:
To me, the main part of which is this: (The important bits are highlighted in blue.)

Competition encourages companies to offer consumers goods and services at the most favourable terms. It encourages efficiency and innovation and reduces prices. To be effective, competition requires companies to act independently of each other, but subject to the competitive pressure exerted by the others.

European antitrust policy is developed from two central rules set out in the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union:

First, Article 101 of the Treaty prohibits agreements between two or more independent market operators which restrict competition. This provision covers both horizontal agreements (between actual or potential competitors operating at the same level of the supply chain) and vertical agreements (between firms operating at different levels, i.e. agreement between a manufacturer and its distributor). Only limited exceptions are provided for in the general prohibition. The most flagrant example of illegal conduct infringing Article 101 is the creation of a cartel between competitors, which may involve price-fixing and/or market sharing.
Second, Article 102 of the Treaty prohibits firms that hold a dominant position on a given market to abuse that position, for example by charging unfair prices, by limiting production, or by refusing to innovate to the prejudice of consumers.

The Commission is empowered by the Treaty to apply these rules and has a number of investigative powers to that end (e.g. inspection at business and non-business premises, written requests for information, etc.). The Commission may also impose fines on undertakings which violate the EU antitrust rules. The main rules on procedures are set out in Council Regulation (EC) 1/2003. Read more about:

The procedures for anticompetitive practices cases
The procedures for abuse of dominance cases
The key actors and checks and balances in proceedings for the application of Articles 101 and 102 TFEU .

National Competition Authorities (NCAs) are empowered to apply Articles 101 and 102 of the Treaty fully, to ensure that competition is not distorted or restricted. National courts may also apply these provisions to protect the individual rights conferred on citizens by the Treaty. Building on these achievements, the Communication on Ten Years of Antitrust Enforcement identified further areas to create a common competition enforcement area in the EU.

As part of the overall enforcement of EU competition law, the Commission has also developed and implemented a policy on the application of EU competition law to actions for damages before national courts. It also cooperates with national courts to ensure that EU competition rules are applied coherently throughout the EU.


The important bit, Article 102 is here: Again, salient bits in blue.

Consolidated version of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union - PART THREE: UNION POLICIES AND INTERNAL ACTIONS - TITLE VII: COMMON RULES ON COMPETITION, TAXATION AND APPROXIMATION OF LAWS - Chapter 1: Rules on competition - Section 1: Rules applying to undertakings - Article 102 (ex Article 82 TEC)

Article 102:(ex Article 82 TEC)

Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the internal market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market in so far as it may affect trade between Member States.

Such abuse may, in particular, consist in:

(a) directly or indirectly imposing unfair purchase or selling prices or other unfair trading conditions;

(b) limiting production, markets or technical development to the prejudice of consumers;

(c) applying dissimilar conditions to equivalent transactions with other trading parties, thereby placing them at a competitive disadvantage;

(d) making the conclusion of contracts subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations which, by their nature or according to commercial usage, have no connection with the subject of such contracts.

If, as the RAC continually state, they are governed by the FIA rules then it would appear to me that it is the FIA that need to comply (catch up ?) with current EU legislation as well as the RAC.

Anyway, as can be seen the CMA are a glove puppet bunch and a waste of tax payers money. They are after all an 'Authority' and not a QUANGO.

You're working hard at this but I fear you're barking up the wrong tree.

It's not that the RAC are unwilling to let us use the RAC, but that if they do so without "good reason" (whatever that may be), then they will incur the wrath of the FIA.

We need to be complaining to the FIA to allow anyone in the EU to use any issuing automobile club regardless of where their vehicle is registered. The fact that the FIA don't allow this is probably contary to European law, but that would need to be tested in court.

We should try and seek RAC's co-operation in complaining to the FIA, but be prepared not to receive it. After the FIA the next step should be the French authorities (FIA HQ is Paris), and then the European Commision

I'm not sure that is the case. FIA doesn't really care which organization you get your carnet from, they all need to pass through FIA anyway. So FIA sending out a reminder of the rules that were imposed to the different bodies in the various countries must have come from one of those bodies.
ADAC will not have been the one complaining. I'm sure they'll just as happily take money from a Brit same as they do from a German.
The only party in this story that actually benefits from the rules being strictly followed is RAC. I would wager some money that it was actually RAC that complained to FIA, after getting a number of requests from Brits to allow them to go with ADAC.
RAC got annoyed at ADAC telling normally monopoly-protected RAC customers they would gladly provide the carnet if they requested a waiver from RAC. So RAC complains to FIA that such was not part of the deal. FIA sends out a reminder to the various bodies about the anti-competetion clause in their contracts. RAC than uses that reminder to tell their customers: "see, it's not our fault, our hands are tied. Now gives us your money."
But that's probably just my own personal cynical interpretation of how the world works.

I agree, the RAC spent some money last year attempting to improve their processes and to make the Carnet service more profitable, notably by reducing the options available travellers. :-(

I doubt, after this amount of work and a good pat on the back for making the company more money, that they would make it easy for people to use another issuer.

They have said they have passed our comments on to the the FIA (Probably Complaining), but they certainly have not indicated in anyway that 1) they agree with our cause or 2) they are prepared to work with us to change this

I do not see them becoming the "Motorists’ Champion" as they desire any time soon....

The President of the FIA read the petition and complaint last night, lets see what they have to say about the issue...

You're partly missing the point though.

If the FIA drop the silly convention, then we won't even need to ask RAC to let us use someone else. We'll be free to use whomever we choose.

Otherwise RAC will just 'hide' behind the convention. "No sir, sorry you can't use another organisation without an exceptional reason, FIA won't allow it and we'll get told off"

That is the magic word isn't it. It is a convention they all agreed upon. There is no requirement in law for this convention, it is a contractual agreement between FIA and the various automobile organizations. You can bet that it wasn't FIA that requested that particular clause to be added, but rather the local agencies trying to protect their respective monopolies.
In this case the only ones that have any benefit from enforcing the particular rule are the RAC, fearing to lose customers to ADAC.
If RAC would allow any request from a customer preferring the bank guarantee option to make use of ADAC's services as an "exceptional circumstance", no-one, not FIA, not ADAC nor the customer would have any objections to that. RAC has the power to do this, they prefer not to and pass the ball to FIA in stead of improving their service to their customers or allowing customers to go elsewhere.

Here's my Dear John letter:

Thank you for your emails regarding the RAC Carnet Scheme, I’m sorry for the delay in my response. I have now looked into the queries you have raised and would like to confirm the following



You are correct that in 2013 as part of an overall review of the Carnet scheme we removed the option to secure carnets via cash deposit and bank guarantees. This was for commercial reasons as the time taken in processing carnets and claims that were secured by this method and the relatively small numbers of individuals who chose to take up those options made these options financially unviable for us.



The Carnet scheme is operated under an international Customs Convention and operated by the FIA. In participating in the Carnet scheme, RAC is bound by the terms of that convention and the rules of the FIA. All clubs have recently been reminded by the FIA that the letters of non-objection should only be issued in exceptional circumstances and we therefore have no option to comply with this. I have checked with the team and there have are no other circumstances, apart from international rally, when we would consider issuing a letter on non-objection.



In operating the Carnet scheme we are essentially performing a public function of general economic interest and are therefore not carrying out a commercial activity that would fall under EU competition rules – issuing clubs do not compete against each other in an economic market for the issuing of carnets in the same way that individual EU Member State government entities do not compete against each other for the issuing of passports to their citizens. You mention RAC holding a monopoly on carnets. We are the only organisation that issues carnets in the UK, however, it is up to the FIA to appoint other issuing authorities and prior to their withdrawal from the scheme the AA were also providers of Carnets.



I hope this answers your questions but please get in touch if we can help further.


Kind regards


Louise Campbell
Customer Care Officer

I will need a CdP for Iran, Pak & India in May & June, so it looks like I'll be paying the full amount :thumbdown:

Dave

As a side note I've asked the AA if they have any plans to rejoin the CdP programe. They still issue Internional Driving Permits. Not holding my breath, but wanted to make them aware of the discontent with RAC.

I would be surprised if the ADAC wanted our business. They have a strong German focus and mildly discourage non-German membership. Also they can only fulfill their obligations to their core German members by having arrangements with local motoring organisations (the AA in the UK). So it is not a competitive business.

If ADAC breakdowns didn't want non-german business, they wouldn't accept it.
I've been with ADAC for past 4-5 years never had any problem with them accepting my money.

In terms of carnets they are happy to accept non-german business.

I use ADAC, I am very happy with them. They accept my membership, but I'm not sure if they "want" it. The whole way they are run and how they communicate is "run by Germans for Germans" For example the renewal paperwork is in German language only with bank instructions that only work if you have a German bank account. (So we phone up and use a credit card)

Looks like we may get response from the FIA soon...

"Dear Mr McGown

Thank you for your correspondence and petition in relation to CPD issues,

I can confirm that this has been received in the office of the FIA President. This matter has been referred to the relevant staff within the FIA Administration for advice and the preparation of a response, as a matter of priority.

I expect that a substantive reply will be available in the very near future. "

Or do what i did and marry a German...:D

If this Carnet stuff does not get sorted by August i may have to get her to call her sister in Germany...put a set of LHD lights in the truck....get a German Reg and then speak to the ADAC.

As it's the "Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobil Club" this isn't the biggest surprise.

They offer breakdown cover for the whole of Europe at no extra cost, as opposed to just the UK by the likes of the AA/RAC. Why would any German ever want to sign up with the parochial Inselaffen AA/RAC?

They don't discourage non-German membership at all: The English language membership page is at The membership in ADAC

Had a really good call with the FIA today, re carnets.

The conversation was positive and looking at ways to resolve the situation in the UK in regards to not having access to the same financing options and Carnet issuers as those in mainland Europe.

Hoping to have some more news in a week two, but they are listening and do understand our position!

Super cool Mart...we all owe you a beer..

Sounds really positive - thanks for all your hard work on this complex issue.

Dave

Good to hear that, as soon as you put the pressure, petition etc, voila something can happen :thumbup1: . I'm glad I could help with signing the pet, keep us informed,

ride on
Dooby

Any more feedback on this? Hopefully some good news at some point in the future.

Yep..I am sitting here holding my breath..it's like waiting for your favourite TV series to begin a new season.

From the linked page -

"English translations are provided for your convenience only. Please understand that contract documents, form, terms & conditions and any other notices and information will generally be provided in German.

Using the links below to acquire ADAC membership requires that your place of residence is in Germany."

That's why non-german residents just email them instead of trying to use the "links below"

Also the correspondence being in German isn't to discourage English speaking people any more than a till receipt from Boots is. It's hardly there fault that many native brits are ignorant when it comes to speaking another language.

Hi All

Just a quick update,

The FIA, have been looking into the situation and I presume have been discussing it with the RAC.

The FIA have an internal meeting planned this Friday, to discuss the matter, and have promised an update after that, which may be another week or two away.

Frustrating... Great that they are discussing it, frustrating that I need to sort out a CdP in next couple of weeks.... If I pay the full price and then they change the rules I will not be a happy bunny.

Dave

June is my deadline..and i am not holding my breath either.

The Carnet man at the RAC has said to me this morning "RAC have no plans to change the price mechanisms of the Carnet documents at this time".

So, no movement, means I've gone ahead and applied under the current pricing structures :( I'd be interested to see what, if anything, the Canadian announcement, that says a centralised European authority will be in place by the 3rd quarter of 2015, will mean for future travellers.

Dave

Never again with a Carnet !!!
 

Hi,
I travelled 2002 - 2005 with two Carnet de Passage across Asia and India - two carnets, because after only 3 days I had a crash in Latvia with a drunken car driver (after midnight): broken legs, 7 months rehabilitation and then buy one more BMW R 80 GS, and of course one more Carnet.
Only in India I had problems with the custom - not for come into the country from China / Nepal, but only to get out to Pakistan across Wagah-border (Arimtsar / Lahore); there they have a very properly border procedure, even with daily parades, no exeptions possible:
They did not want to let me out of India, because my carnet was valid only one year, but my second start to travel (with a fine new Carnet) was in January 2003, 3 1/2 years before.
I told the custom officers, that of course this Carnet is still guilty, because I must bring back this "old" Carnet with a EU-custom stamp and only then I will get back my 3000 €. All my trying (also offering some money) did not help, I had to let back my bike in India - where it is standing and waiting for me until today!!
And back home in Germany, of course I did not get back my deposit money from the german auto-club ADAC - I had to wait and write and wait, etc. until 2013, then finally I got my money back, 14 years after I made the deposit of 3000 € to the ADAC (of course with no interest money!!)
Therefore never again with Carnet!! - also because I am no longer inhabitant of any country; I am a traveller for the coming ten years; the world is my home (and the roads and garages!).

Norbert Berentz
- actual in Pointe-Noire (Congo - Brazzaville), looking for an angolan visa!

Slow progress on the Carnet issues but they are working on it, I am planning on having another call next week to discuss the progress and potential solutions:

The FIA has raised these issues with our member, RAC Motoring and Services. We have discussed a number of options with the RAC and I understand that these are under active consideration.

I should also note that we are reviewing aspects of the AIT/FIA Guarantee in an effort to ensure that it is not misinterpreted and that it appropriately reflects the FIA’s objectives to facilitate the movement of motor vehicles internationally.

update posted here: https://www.change.org/p/european-co...ter/u/10331171

Thanks for your hard work on this issue Martin. The Change.org page asks for examples of being refused a letter of non objection, I quoted mine a few pages ago http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...1-9#post491951 The email was sent Jan 10th

In my own situation, I've had to go ahead with the RAC, sent them the princely sum of £3220 on Thursday :thumbdown:

Dave

I've been a member for a few years now. Let it lapse and then renew again when we start a trip there. Just call into an ADAC shop and pay my money.
True that they do like to have a German postal address to send the mail to, but they are well aware that we are Australians driving a German registered vehicle.

Used them twice - Morocco for a 150km truck ride and once in Germany. Well ahead at this stage.

Interestingly, I am based in Ireland and contacted ADAC whether they will issue a carnet, to which they've replied they will are not allowed and I should contact RAC instead.

This is quite a surprise as RAC doesn't have presence in Ireland at all, how come did they become a designated CPD organization for Ireland? Same as others on the thread, I'd really rather go with ADAC than RAC, as RAC rates are rip-off.

I will try to push a bit on ADAC because it just doesn't make sense, but in the meantime, I'm wondering if there happen to be any registry of the issuing organizations per country?

Perhaps they think you are in Northern ireland.

The other major problem with carnets from RAA is (I heard) they don't allow renewals while you are away. Need to arrange a new one and get both refunds when you return.

The world body can designate any country to issue any other country with carnets and I imagine all of this was put in place long before there was even an EU or eurozone.

That's odd. This is what sent me a few months ago.

They probably think you're in Northern Ireland as Tony points out.

So when I clarified I'm in Ireland, not the UK, they asked to send the bike registration, passport and also bike value and list of countries to them so they can see if they can issue Carnet.

Since the bike I'll take the trip on is different from the current one, I told them I'll come back once I have the actual bike, but its value will be around 5-6k EUR.

What they've replied is that currently they have a number of applications from British and Irish riders for Carnet and they're looking for the solution (I guess, thanks for the great work of people on this thread in pushing the complaint about RAC). But they've also mentioned the deposit will be 100% of the bike value + 295 EUR for the Carnet itself. Not sure if that's due to countries listed (which includes Iran, Pakistan, India) or something else, but I'll find out when get closer to the trip.

Hope the info is useful to someone!

For those looking to obtain a Carnet in North America, you are probably already aware the the CAA has now stopped issuing them.

Currently the CAA has not appointed anyone else to issues these on for North American residents.

We have been in contact with the FIA, on behalf of our some of our Overland Sphere members, they are expecting to have a solution in place some time in June / July.

If anyone in North America requires are carnet before then, please let me know and i can contact one of our FIA contacts who would be able to help you out.

Recent Experience
 

Hi All

I am currently on a long trip through Africa. Getting carnets was absolutely necessary as we wanted to start in Cape Town. The shippers would not transport the bikes without them.

So far we have not needed them for the border crossing into Namibia. We will be going to Zambia in the next week or so. In theory we won't be allowed in without either a carnet or paying temporary import tax.

Let's see what actually happens......

You don't need a carnet crossing from SA to Namibia as they are part of a customs union. You will definitely need it crossing in to Zambia. Katima Mulilo is an easy crossing, Kazungula less so.

had a good call with FIA this morning, it looks like contractual changes are in progress that will lift any barriers on EU citizens applying for a carnet from any other carnet issuer.

The changes do not mean that a carnet issuer will issue you a carnet as this is still at their discretion.

The changes are expected in sometime between Jan -June 2016.

I will send an update out on the main petition in the next few days...

There were a couple of other developments, which can be read or discussed in our group.

Also Carnets for North America, the new carnet issuer is not yet active,

If you are looking to obtain a carnet in the next 45-60 days, let me know and i can help expedite the issue through our contacts at the FIA

Just to let you know that Reggie was absolutely correct. Kazangula Ferry was chaotic but the Carnets seems to be essential. Can't imagine managing it without the fixed who latched onto us on the Botswanan side. I didn't want to cause any confusion by asking what would happen without a Carnet but as I say my impression was that it was expected that we would have them.

Carnet Update: North America

After speaking with the FIA over the last few days, it appears that the North American Carnet issuer may not be active until sometime in October (worst case), best case September. The new carnet issuer will provide the same services & rates as the CAA did.

We have been working with one of the members to secure them a carnet this month and are having problems finding a carnet issue that will

1) Issue the Carnet to a North American resident
2) still be issuing carnets in the future

The main issue for other carnet issuers is that their insurance just does not cover them for NA, this includes the ADAC.

The FIA have suggested using the Swedish Automobile association "M" https://www.motormannen.se/ however they will cease issuing carnets in the next couple weeks. They have suggested that M would continue to service any issued carnets for 12 months with a possible 6 month extension.

If you do require a carnet for travel before November, please let me know asap and we can try and expedite your carnet. Unfortunately if we miss the deadline with M you would have to wait for the new North American carnet issue to become active.

I see that the petition is being re-promoted on Facebook. Is there any update in relation to the changes in EU rules? Or is early 2016 the best we can hope for?

Dave

Not sure who's re promoting the petition.

But here is the latest update.

https://www.change.org/p/european-co...ter/u/13796308

The FIA have kept to their word, completed their legal review of the global agreement and are moving forward with the changes promised.

Although the new agreement may take some time to finalise, I'm expecting that we should start seeing positive changes between now and then. But this is dependent on the associations being educated by the FIA as to the changes that are happening, and the legality of the interpretation and use of the clause in dispute / being enforced by the RAC.

There is also other news which will affect the state of play, but until this becomes official it would be inappropriate to discuss it publicly.

We are also pushing forward to become a carnet issuer, once we have approval form either the UK or Irish governments to issue CDP carnets we get move forward with our plans.

We are currently on the road, with limited internet, we will update the main petition when there is significant news, and our FB Group with smaller informal updates etc...

https://www.change.org/p/european-co...ter/u/13796308


The latest update update on North American Carnets is posted here

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Over...7548470129773/

I am not sure how it is with other european countries, but (for example) Finnish people can now get carnet straight from ADAC in Germany.

Previously they got carnet from Sweden, but this has now changed. So it might be good time to check with ADAC if they are doing this with other countries too!

Ok I'm back after a few years away and back on the RAC carnet issue

What's the latest, don't really want to scroll through all the previous posts

Also found this
http://www.atacarnet.com/UK-ATA-Carnets
Anyone have any more info on it?

Just put the petition link up all over Facebook so will hopefully get a few people sighting the petition over the next few days

I've just started a new thread, but wanted to add this as a note here.

From December 31 2015, the RAC will no longer be issueing Carnets.
At this time, you will need to contact an EU Club for this service.

Steve

RAC to stop issuing Carnets
 

The RAC website states that they are stopping issuing Carnets altogether. Does anyone know who will be the issuing body for the UK? I'm off through Morocco, Mauritania, Senegal, and Gambia. I know I don't need one for Morocco but there seems to be some doubt about Mauritania and Senegal. They are on the list of countries where they are required but recent accounts from travellers suggest otherwise. Any information gratefully received.?

If you search the thread (I know, it's 12 pages) then ADAC (the German AA) have been willing to issue Carnets to UK travellers for some time (and people on this thread have been positive about ADAC), up until now the RAC have stood in the way of this. The latest statement from the RAC now says that UK travellers are free to use other agencies Carnet de Passage | Application Form | RAC Driving Information | RAC. So, I guess, ADAC is the best place to go right now.

Dave

There should be a plan to change the whole system, how carnets are issued. I don´t know the exact details, and I´m not sure if there is already more recent information about this, but at least check post #10 on this thread:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...001#post505745

Hello there - Potential North American in need of a CPD Carnet and I saw your post with the link to an update on Facebook. I am not a registered FB user so I could not access this information.

Can anyone copy and paste the info? I'm hoping the the North American agency Boomerang is now issuing on this side of the pond. I wrote them have not heard back yet.

The last time i spoke to the FIA re North America was about 4 weeks ago at the time there were still in the process of obtaining approval to issue CDP carnets.

The project manager from the FIA is on holiday until Monday, and i'm expecting an update when she returns...

You can also view our updates in our forum here, with out being a member of facebook Carnet / Temporary Import | Overland Sphere - Overland Travel Forum & Information

Info
 

Thanks for the link and the update!

Sounds like you have a good channel for the latest information/progress from the FIA side..:thumbup1:

FYI - I actually spoke with a representative at Boomerang Carnet this morning (ATA Carnet | Boomerang Carnets), and got a very similar response. She estimated that they *should* have FIA approval by end of year - and would then start offering (advertising) CPD Carnet services to North American citizens in January 2016. Currently they offer pretty quick turnaround on ATA Carnet's (like 48 hours) but she wasn't sure that would be the case with CPD Carnet's - as there may be more/different approvals necessary through FIA for each applicant?

Anyway - her estimate was just that - an estimate. No guarantees. She did suggest going to their website and signing on for their newsletter/updates, as when they do get approved, they would be sending the news out via their email lists.

I'm crossing my fingers as I may have the need for one in February 2016 :)

Carnet de passage
 

I am writing in response to the posts about the RAC and Carnet de passsage. I have been planing a trip to Africa and will need a carnet, which I have organised through ADAC in Germany. It works out considerably cheaper than with the RAC. I have previously used the RAC but it is getting expensive.
I called ADAC and they told me it is no problem for them to issue the carnet but they need a letter of non objection from RAC. I called the RAC and they agreed to issue the letter of non objection which was emailed to me the very next day and a papaer copy arrived in the post a few days later.
I downloaded the application forms from the ADAC website, filled them in, emailed the forms and copies of v5, passport, and letter of non objection so they could be checked. I received an email saying everything was in order and they started the process. I then had to send original application forms via the postal service to them ( so they have a signed copy).
I have paid the deposit and the fees and when the carnet is returned and discharged I will get back the deposit. (Dont forget it is vital the carnet is completed correctly at every border crossing, so there is no delay when returning it.)
My carnet is now on its way the whole process was fairly easy and straightforward and has only taken a couple of weeks to complete and I get the cash deposit back and not just 50% as with the insurance backed option from RAC, so in the long run save a lot of money over the RAC deal:

Carnet De Passage
 

Hi all, many thanks for this info. I am flying from New Zealand to the UK mid 2016 to start an overland trip back to New Zealand via Africa, so a carnet is required for me. The big question for me from what I have read is will I as a non EU resident be able to get a carnet for a UK registered vehicle from Germany ADAC?? I can get an address in the UK as I have family here but I do not hold a UK passport.
Is anyone able to help with this??
many thanks
David

Hot off the press from Suzanne Danis at the CAA. Good news for North American travelers...:clap::thumbup1:

See attached...

mtncrawler and I posted at about the same time:

See the new Carnet issuing authority announcement here:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-issuing-84779

All good news for UK travellers - ADAC takes them on.

Update on the UK ‘Carnet’ situation : Adventure Motorcycle Travel

Love your book mate.

Carnet from Malaysia
 

Hi Everybody,

Yes a Carnet issued in Malysia.

We traveled from the UK to Thailand in 2014 (plodd.net) (overlandersthailand.com) in our UK registered vehicle 28 countries and not needing a carnet anywhere on the trip, our vehicle is still in Thailand after almost 2 years and we are now thinking of a return trip back to the UK, only using a different route, so our new route would take in Myanmar and if for only there we would need a Carnet, so I contacted RAC no go, I then found an article on the net saying that the Malaysian Automobile Association are prepared to issue carnets for Thai registered cars, I emailed two of there offices in Malaysia and one said they could not issue me with a Carnet for our UK registered vehicle and the other one said they could if I have a letter from the RAC UK saying that they would not issue one.
To date I have requested the letter from the RAC and I am now awaiting there reply.
For anybody that is thinking of South East Asia and on the subject of Carnet's
we have had some difficulties entering the following countries without a Carnet very recently Thai into Laos (Laos side Vientiane friendship bridge) border would not let us in until I kicked up, Laos in to Thailand (Thai side wanting a Carnet) Laos into Cambodia (Cambodia side at Strung Trang) turned us away. Cambodia into Laos this time the Cambodian side would not let us out (they did after we payed them $60 USA with no receipt Fancy That ??) Ho and by the way as I am sure most people on here will already know a Carnet is NOT required in any of these countries and I am also pritty sure that these countries could not claim against one if you was to default on the agreed terms of the carnet, but it does make it easier for the customs officers as they don't have all the temporary vehicle import papers to fill out and process they just stamp your carnet in on the way in then out on your exit.

Dave

Malysia's Auto Clubs Final Decision
 

Well as expected after about 2 weeks of toing and fro-wing with emails they decided that they could not issue a carnet for our vehicle and sugested I contacted the main office in Switzerland that issue carnets, I contacted then and avery swift reply came back saying that I would have to contact a issuing association as the head office did not issue carnets.
And the story continues as I am now going to send a copy of the email from Switzerland to the Malaysian Club asking why they will not issue me a carnet.

Watch this space

Dave

I've a UK registered bike and am going through the ADAC option :) Can anyone tell me how long it took the ADAC to send it back once received?
COUNTDOWN HAS BEGUN :scooter:

Carnet
 

Hi
Have you got your carnet, we hope to apply soon and wonder how long it will take, if you have yours how long did it take to come through? We are wondering if we can post off the details and then pick it up from Munich on the way through, do you know if that's possible please?
Hope you have received your carnet
Suede

ADAC carnets
 

Hi there,we used ADAC for a new Carnet on our UK registered Defender in Africa when our RAC Carnet was due to expire.
ADAC couldn't have been more helpful and efficient.
New CDP applies for online by downloading forms from ADAC website (in English). Application sent in by email with scanned copies of relevant documents.
CDP issued within 10 days! AND post-dated so that start date is not before you actually need it. AND sent by courier to us in Zambia. AND it's a fraction of the price RAC were charging.
Highly recommended and painless.
Link to details on our blog:
Bird Calls & Chocodiles... - wearthefoxhat
Happy to provide links to documents etc if you contact us.
Good luck
Scott
Ps- subsequently have returned old Carnets to RAC and got our deposits returned to our bank within 4 weeks. Result.

Thanks for the info! Can you provide some information to start with? I cannot find the English site of ADAC :/

Hi,
This is a link to the page I used to download the ADAC Carnet application form in English.
https://www.adac.de/reise_freizeit/r...ssages_en.aspx
Hope it helps.
Scott

Thanks! I somehow found that link yesterday and I am filling it little by little.

I got my carnet! The whole procedure was painless, and I got my carnet sent by next day delivery (at extra cost) within a week. They were very helpful and efficient! I thought I might be able to go in person to the office in Munich, but apparently it's harder to get an appointment, so I just did everything via post. Only annoying thing was that i had already left and had to get it forwarded to me on the road - mostly my fault for leaving it too late.........

Hi, I got a Carnet from ADAC about 6 weeks ago for a trip to Iran. As mentioned above the procedure was painless and efficient. I called the Munich office and clarified a few things and they spoke good English and could not be more helpful.

I'm now back in UK and ADAC have asked me to get confirmation from UK customs that my bike is back in UK, so I can have my deposit back. Has anyone experience of getting this customs stamp? In hindsight I could have got it done at Dover but did not?

hi go to any customs at a port with your bike and get them to fill in the last page, should be no problem

These people are now issuing Carnets in the UK - Cars Europe

This is what they told me as an estimate/guideline -

• Vehicle value - £7,000
• 5 page carnet - £210 plus option1 or 2
• Each extra driver (if applicable) - £50
• Delivery outside the UK - £60 TBC

OPTION 1 - Security/premium fee: £1,635 of which £250.00 is refundable once your carnet has been successfully discharged.

OPTION 2 - Cash deposit of £8000 includes a non-refundable fee of £500. We will refund £7,500 once your carnet has been successfully discharged.


Not having the deposit of 8,000GBP means that option 1 is quite attractive albeit fairly expensive option for me, but I understand it is risk management they can't make it so cheap as to tempt people doing something they aren't allowed.

Hopefully some useful information for somebody that I'm happy to pass on.
Also they replied to my email within an hour!

Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the world of international paperwork than me could explain what exactly is the legal status of the CPD type carnets that we've been talking about in this discourse.

Cars Europe, the issuer mentioned in James's report above just look (as far as I can see anyway) like a private company so on what basis are they issuing carnets? Are they just acting as an agent for some higher, quasi governmental authority (such as the FIA) or is the whole system so loose that anyone can do it - Tesco's for example, should they wish (or even, to dredge up a discussion from the dim and distant past, Mr Carnet).

Presumably it would be very convenient for Cars Europe to be able to issue their own carnets to facilitate their commercial activities (and if it's all done internally I don't suppose it costs them anywhere near the rates mentioned). From our perspective all I would say is thanks for at least opening the system up to outsiders even if that does come at a cost, but it just surprises me that a private company are able to take on what I previously assumed (seemingly incorrectly) was, if not a direct function of government, at least somewhere in the world of quangos.

Anyone able to shed light onto how it actually works please chip in.

I'd say yes, just like the AA and RAC did before in the UK.
CdPs are an FIA sanctioned/approved document, afaik.
That's what helps get them accepted internationally.

hi all, I did my carnet with CARS, I was doing it with ADAC but I changed to the UK company as I thought it would be more convenient.

I went for the first option, so I paid 1250 with 250 refundable, as the other option was 8000 deposit...

Now I have my carnet and I'm doing London-India, still in France though. You must return the carnet to CARS, otherwise you would be liable of a non cheap fine. I am asking CARS to clarify how this works exactly, but basically if you don´t return with the bike, you are in trouble...

This is a normal CdP requirement - to prove you have not sold it abroad.
When you return your home country (Spain?) with bike, get the customs to stamp CdP on arrival to prove bike arrived - that will do the the trick, afaik.

I could stamp the carnet anywhere in Europe, it doesn't need to be in Spain or UK.

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I presume you can return the CDP by mail once you've returned to the country which the vehicle is registered. Since I'm a British citizen but living in UAE with a UAE registered vehicle, which I did mention to them yesterday and the lady at CARS didn't mention any issue about that.

ADAC wouldn't give me a CDP though since there is an issuing body for CDP here in UAE already.