UK - Magadan/VLAD 2014/2015
 

I'm just throwing this out there.....

I'm thinking about doing this trip in the next 12-24 months. Vague I know !!

I'm interested in meeting like minded people planning the same trip to share ideas, planning and maybe the road with.

I'm thinking of heading through Eastern Europe, along the bottom of the black sea and riding through Kazakstan, Mongolia and into Russia. No real idea at the moment though.

I'll probably be taking a Honda XR650L and taking about 6 months(ish)

Cheers,

Ted

UK - Vlad
 

Ted, Ive been thinking about this trip for last few months. The earliest I can do it is 2015, no restrictions re time. I didnt bother putting anything on here as i thought it would be too far off for most people. Mark

Plan to do it on a r80gs basic by the way,

Mongolia 2014
 

Hi Ted!

I am planning to go the Russian Far East and Mongolia via the Stans starting April 2014. I was going to do it Vlad to Berlin, but I think I will now be starting in Ireland and travel with warmer dryer weather to the East.

I do not want to pay for a tour, and lack the balls to do it solo. I will determine what bike to take later. If figure it might be better to buy a ride in Ireland and save freight from the USA.

My itinerary is simple - point the bike east and stay flexible.

Fritz

Re: UK - Magadan/VLAD 2014/2015
 

You're too much of a deviant to leave your helmet alone mick.

www.touringted.com

I need to stop reading your posts Ted - one by one you're doing all the trips that I have on my list and for various reasons (family, money and family taking money - the usual suspects) have had to postpone. It's like living my life second hand :rofl:

Need any bits for the XR-L ? - I've got 20L (Clarke see-thru) and 40L (Acerbis in white plastic) tanks + one of Chris Scott's Desert Riders bespoke racks sitting around doing nothing.

Re: UK - Magadan/VLAD 2014/2015
 

Don't you dare sell any of that to anyone apart from me.. I want that 40l tank. Maybe the 20 too.

www.touringted.com

R80 will be quite heavy for those roads IMHO.
I would go with a lighter one.

If you're taking an XR650L then I would recommend fitting an oil cooler. I have one of Mark Suttons oil colers (GS Mark on ADV rider) Sutton Cycle Works Honda XR 650L Oil Cooler on my 650 dominator (same engine as the 650L) and can highly recommend it. I found out the hard way what can happen when one of these engines overheats. My bike dropped a valve seat only 200miles after I bought it! My problem was caused by me caning the bike at 90mph with a damaged inlet manifold seal causing a lean mixture. The weak point of these engines is minimal finning on the head especially on the right hand side and the first thing to go is the RHS exhaust valve seat falling out the head. Honda's fix was to fit air scoops on the tank of the 650L but you won't have them if you're fitting an oversized tank so an oil cooler would be prudent. I believe that the later heads were cast from a better quality alloy so are less prone to this problem (mine's a 1990 bike) so a later 650L with a cooler should be bombproof.
Here's what mine looked like when I pulled it to bits.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8...547cc5c9_m.jpg

Once repaired though I did 3100 miles in 11 days on a round trip from Scotland to the Pyrenees to take part in The VINCE with no problems at all.
Best of luck with your trip
cheers
Stewart

Mines a 1995... I'll deffo look into the oil cooler !!

Thanks :)

ted forget the 40L tank . I did this route on a xt600 with 23L tank and a guy on a xr650l with 22L tank and we were fine . the fuel is 150 miles in russia

i'll throw my hat in the ring as a maybe on this...

Any chance of having a meeting behind the bike shed at Donnington on your idea? Ride safe.

ps bring your own carryout.

Yeah. Good idea. After the clock strikes midnight under the crescent moon, wear black cloaks and mutter the pass code "big beautiful bananas".....

www.touringted.com

I'm planning to do something similar in 2015 :
The Caucasus, the Stans, Mongolia, Vladivostok, on a KLR 650.

I'm a kind of a loner usually but it will be my first bike trip out of Europe. Would be nice to have a little company, at least for some bits of the journey.

p.s. I'm a good cook and a beer drinker !

An R80 is not heavy for ANY roads, infact its one of,if not the best overland bike ever!
I am ready for 'incoming'!!! :gun_bandana:

hello!!
i am up for this trip......will follow this thread...

take care

nino

I was going to buy a house but this sounds a much better idea :thumbup1:

will be keeping an eye on this :funmeteryes:

Dam right :)

The house is already purchased (last year), but the new bathroom can wait. Or the deck. Or the carport. You never stop paying with a house anyway.
Better spend my money on travels.

Hi...!!
Fritz you can freight from the USA for about 2000 USD, and in uk bike like yamaha xt660z which i owe few years old can be purchased for around 4500 £££..(6000 usd)
Ted do you do any ABR rallies? the outlines of the trip are pretty much same as i was thinking...Only Iran is questionable as carnett is required and that is load of £££..??
is it May 2014 convenient starting point????
I will go to Iceland in august this year, little practice river crossing and offroading, anyone welcome..

Rtw 2014-2015
 

Hi There ,
Having did South America about 6 years Iv'e been itching to do another trip again .
I would like to do a RTW trip similar to " The Long Way Round " but going the other way so as to finish the trip in my own country rather than New York and then flying home only to wait a few weeks for my bike to arrive .
Would this be something you would consider .
I wait in anticipation .:scooter:

Same trip -
 

Hi Ted, and others,

Planning my first longer - similar trip for 2014.
I have < 3 months available.

Thinking of: Delft - Italy - Turkey - Iran - Turkmenistan - Uzbekistan - Kyrgyzstan - Kazakhstan - Mongolia - maybe back with bike on Trans Siberia Express to Moscow - Delft

Seriously interested in sharing info on countries, routes, visa, interesting places, where to eat & sleep - bike transport (by Trans Siberia Express or other) - best period of traveling (Mongolia seems critical - river passing / snow) - how much time it will take etc. -

I think it is not a very good idea to travel alone through for instance parts of Mongolia.

Currently drive a '91BMWK75RT - think this will not work for Mongolia - looking at a Tenere 660 or older bike.

Looking forward sharing info - plans - thoughts and possibly parts of the road.

Leo
Delft
The Netherlands

I'm planning on departing the UK at the end of April 2014..

heading all the way round, but the first bits are :

My initial route plan is as follows:

Section 1: Starting from the UK to Belgium, Germany, Austria, Italy, Greece and Turkey.

Section 2: Russia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, KKH -> China, Pakistan, India, -> Nepal.


before going onto the rest (that isn't important to you for this trip)
Section 3: Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia.

Section 4: Australia , New Zealand.

Section 5: : USA.

Cheers

Mark

Keep all this info coming !!! It's great. bier

half-time score / next step?
 

Tried to get main info together / make overview: :D

Ted: 2014 or 2015 East Eur-bottom black sea-Kazakstan-Mongolia-Russia

Simplem: 2015 similar trip
BGil: 2015 Caucasus, Stans, Mongolia, Vladivostok

Fritz: 2014 April via Stans - Mongolia - far East
trackdayr: 2014 April UK-Ger-It-Gr-Trk-Rus-Kaz-Taj-KKH-Chin>
Leo: 2014 May NL-It-Trk-Iran-Turkmst-Uzbek-Kyrg-Kaz-Mong-Moscow>

rtwpaul: a maybe
kiraboo: waits in anticipation

Hope this is correct..:confused1:

Seems:
some like to go in 2014 - some in 2015
some like to go trough Iran Turkmenistan - Uzbek - Kyrchistan - some not.

Am I really the only one who likes to travel trough beautiful Iran - Turkmenistan - Uzbek - Kyrgystan?

Seems there are possibilities to join the road where solo might be risky (e.g. Mongolia :mchappy:)

Whats the next step? :cool4:

Chears Leo

From East to West anybody?
 

I got interested in and started following this thread at the first posting when the intention was heading from the East going West. I'm in Japan and also want to have a go at this. Anybody else interested in going that direction? :scooter:

hello!
i would love to go through iran, but the carenet is big issue...
my ideal route will be through turkey-Baku-turk-uzbek into the china to Mt. Everest base camp-up to great wall-mongolia-magadan- than i don't know...
best regards
nino

Iran - carnet
 

Hi Nino,

Yes - a carnet is required for Iran.

I found that I have to pay 150 Euro and have to deposit or have a bank guarantee of a about 2/3 of the value of the bike.
I have a rebate being member of automotive organisation (anwb)

If I not loose the bike in Iran, it will cost me 150 Euro + Visa.
(Could live with that).

Furthermore - I guess that one will run into problems trying to exit a country without the bike one took into this country..

I am willing to take the risk (probably being a bit more care full not to loose the bike)

Baku - passing the Caspian sea by ferry might be a (cheaper) alternative.

Cheers,
Leo

I still have not decided if I wil go north or south of the Caspian sea. Going south trough Iran is my favourite option but I don't know the price of a Carnet de Passage in Belgium.

If I decide to get a Carnet and cross Iran, I will probably visit Japan and ship my bike back from there.
By the way, does anyone knows how much money I should expect to pay to ship a bike from Japan to Europe ? I can't find anything on the HUBB and I feel that it's to soon to request a quote from a shipping company.


There are a some places that I really want to visit, apart from that I can adapt my route : the Caucasus (Georgia and Armenia), Aral sea (if that sea still exists in 2 years), Samarkand and Bukkhara, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia and the lake Baïkal.


Maybe another point should be considered : how do you plan to travel ; mainly camping or mainly hotels ?

For me, it's mainly camping as I will try to keep the costs low.

Costs
 

Ted,

I'm feeling this thread .... with a caveat, the cost of a carnet for Iran is prohibitive.

I read Leonardo's post. I tried to get into Iran last year via all 3 borders with Turkey and a Carnet is a MUST. No question, no negotiation, no baksheesh, no way without one. The cost of a carnet for Iran for a UK registered bike (Leonardo's bike is not a UK bike) is a multiple of the bike's value. At present it's 500% for UK bikes. http://www.rac.co.uk/pdfs/driving-ab...formation.aspx. So, if your bike's 'deemed value' is £4,000 ... you must deposit £20,000 with your bank (tied until they release it), or take Davison's insurance which will cost you a pleasant amount resembling a bathroom renovation.

Iran would be a fabulous ride, but don't under-estimate the cost.

On that note ... count me in!!!!!!!!!!

go north, south or over of Caspian sea
 

It is as Nino suggested also possible to go over the Caspian sea by Ferry.
(Ferry from Azerbaijan (city Baku) to Turkmenistan)

Seems a good alternative.
Visa in this region seem to require thorough preparation: The Complete Guide to Central Asian Visas | Caravanistan

Does anyone know the best time of year to cross Mongolia, eastern Russia and Siberia ?? Considering the weather, temperature, river heights etc ???

www.touringted.com

I highly recommend doing it in the summer...:smiliex:

hah absolutely... I was just wondering what the 'Window' was !!

I'd want to spend a decent bit of time getting there. Enjoying Eastern Europe, Turkey and the stans before getting into Mongolia and the further wilds.....

I'm trying to work out a start date really. If it's early 2014 then I doubt my finances will be in place. I'd be better off waiting until 2015 in that case.

HOWEVER !!

What's the weather like South of the Black sea and in Azerbaijan in November/December ??

I'm guessing that if I want to cross Mongolia/Siberia in Summer, with only a 5-6 month time period, Id be leaving the UK sometime in Early May. Sound about right ???

That's about 12 months from now !!!

How much would this trip cost, spanning six months ? I'm guessing about £7000 with flights and shipping.

I might even just put my feet up in Turkey for the winter. However, this is pretty unlikely with a girlfriend waiting at home, sticking pins in a voodoo doll.

;)

Don't you dare hang up that helmet...

There's plenty of devilishness left in you....

Hi everyone!!!
Just to drop few words/thoughts.
Watching DVD’s from people who done this sort of trip, one thing is common, they all start mid April. Mondo Enduro, charley and Ewan, kev sanders, that Irish guy oisin huges......all of them leave UK around second half of April, and all had dry and good rides..(More/less...more more than les)
Money is issue, but ask Austin Vince (mondo enduro) what he think about it, and i believe him, money is not that all important, it helps but going to unknown and overcoming obstacles is what is all about, and will always stay in the memories, tarmac and hotels are all the same.
I agree that £7000 should be enough perhaps £1000 per month, but i am afraid that means no Iran (carnet) and china (guide). I don’t think i will have more than that...For everything else there is mastercard....
My idea of the route is based on Kevin Sanders ride from London to Beijing (if someone wants to see DVD let me know), that part of their ride from turkey till entering to china.
Would love to spend time in Turkey, Pamir highway, all this STANS(kaza,taji, kyrgy....unameitstan) and Mongolia, road of bones and back to Vladivostok at late July or august, ready for shipping...
On this forum is few other guys planning similar route at the same time so maybe all link together and this trip may happen.
Today i started my new job and i hate it, and only thinking (daydreaming) about this trip will keep me going till next spring...
Thanks and Keep it real...

Carnet
 

Talked yesterday on the German HU meeting with a Belgian guy going to Iran - Pakistan - India who first tried to get a Carnet in Belgium and had to deposit over 20.000 Euro for his bike.
He went to the ADAC in Germany and got a Carnet there for less than 200 Euro and a deposit of 3000 Euro (value bike < 15000 Euro).


I know that if I order a carnet from the Dutch automobile club it will be ordered from the German ADAC anyway. Seems to me all countries are getting the Carnet from Germany. Think you Brits can do the same. :thumbup1:

Best,
Leo




http://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/Carnet%2...isch_18337.pdf

Carnets aren't as difficult or expensive as people think...

The trick is having a CHEAP bike.

I have a carnet for Egypt and it was 800%.. My bike was valued (LIE), at £1000 so my carnet amount was £8000.

I got a bank guarantee from Barclays and it cost me about £250 in charges. The carnet document was another £200 or something.

That's about 450 in total...

The bank guarantee is by far the cheapest but you need a good relationship with you bank and it helps to have all your money with them.

I borrowed £6000 off my mum six weeks before I applied and they were happy with that. As soon as I got the carnet I gave it back to her. :rolleyes2:

I'm a little confused about carnets. I thought as a UK resident i could apply for one that was a %age of the value of the bike(mine cost £2000) and that would cover the international journey and border crossings ??

I haven't read anything about going to my bank until now?


ninothedude - there is a thread here regarding a trip through China that is looking to share the cost of a Chinese guide.. UK to Thailand
:thumbup1:

Hi guys, been reading this with interest and have a couple of questions, how long is a carnet valid for also if it costs a percentage of the bikes value what's to stop people from making a 4grand bike or whatever look like a 500quid rat? Who decides the value of your pride and joy?

Carnets...............


A carnet is a security deposit for the value of your bike...

It is designed to stop people illegally importing vehicles in to a county. You risk losing your security deposit if you do.

The carnet is a big book. Each page represents a country that you might visit.

When you enter a country, the official stamps it. When you leave, it's also stamped. that way you can prove you have LEFT the country WITH your vehicle. That's the important part. If you don't get your exit stamp, that country will assume the bike hasn't left and has been imported so they will make a claim against whoever issued the carnet for their % amount.

Now, each country sets it's own percentage. Most are 100%, 200% .. Crazy places like Egypt are 800%. Which is ludicrous.

To get the carnet book you have to leave the said deposit with a trusted organisation. In the UK it's the RAC.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!

Let's imagine you have a bike which is worth £4000 and you want to go to Kenya which might have a 200% carnet.

You need to leave £8000 deposit with the RAC before they will issue you that carnet. If you want to go to Egypt which is 800% you would have to leave 8x£4000 which is £24000..

CRAZY HUH !!!


Now this is how you make it affordable.

1) You get someone to guarantee payment for that amount of money. A 'bank guarantee' is in affect is a giant loan with your bank that they will chase you for if a country can prove that you didn't remove your vehicle (no stamp) and makes a claim against you.

A bank will usually charge you about £300 for this but they can be tricky to obtain unless you have a good credit history and some money tucked away.

2) You can an insurance policy for the amount of money. Just like any insurance, they take a premium against the risk that you might or might not have a country claim against you. This is the most common. Expect to pay about £800 for a £8000 carnet value.

3) You get a CHEAP bike. The lower the value of the bike, the lower the value of the deposit. A £1000 bike in Egypt needs a £8000 deposit. A £10,000 bike needs a £80,000 deposit. Egypt is 800% remember. In ALL cases, the cheaper the bike, the lower the cost.

Most people will undervalue their bike when filling in the forms. The RAC are Okay with this as long as it is realistic and believable. They will never believe a brand new 1200GS is worth £500.

They will believe that a ten year old DRZ400 is worth £800 instead of £3000.


Get it ????



To anser simenus's question specifically...... YOU tell the RAC the value of your bike and hope that they believe you. They ARE NOT stupid though. If they smell a rat, they will just go on autotrader and check.

My DRZ400 was worth about £2500 with all the mods. I claimed it was worth £1000 because an old battered DRZ400 'could' be worth £1000. It's up to you to put in a realistic amount and be able to prove it if required.

Thanx Ted, thats the info i was looking for! Thinking about doing a decent sized trip in the next couple of years, been wanting to for a long time now so no point thinking about it any longer going to take final leap and go for it!

just bumped into simon and lisa thomas over the weekend (2Ride The World) they have been on the road for 10 years and obviously had a carnet and renewed in multiple times, lisa was saying there are going to be some changes by the RAC...

have you heard anything about this, she didn't elaborate too much as it was an American audience so too relevent as most riders here get their carnet from canada, but as i have dual citizenship i'll alway look for the cheapest way, besides devaluing the bike of course :thumbup1:

and based on that sentence anyone else reading this have you found other places to get them for international riders that offer better deals? i have heard other countries car clubs can get them and prices vary a lot

IMO i just wish most countries did it like Mexico at the border, that way there is no possibility of not getting stamped out incorrectly and you don't have to carry a book :thumbdown:

hi!
was thinking, and that's never good thing...guides cost lot of money for somebody to tell you where you staying and where you riding, unless you are on organised trip it's way to expensive and you don't have much of a freedom, so traveling somebody else trip is not good fun...for that reason I am out...(guided countries, trips..)
and carnet, my bike can go for minimum of £5000 x4(400% Iran) =20 000 deposit, if bank agree to loan me out will be 3-400 pounds in interests...for that money Yamaha xt660z can get 20 full tanks which equals 4800 miles (7680 km) and I am sure that will be great places to be and see within that range.
this trip is my first major, big overland trip and I will avoid carnet and guide countries, there will be more trips and more time to do it all, but for this one I am out of carnet countries too....

what about starting date? routes?
I have rough idea of the route, date, visas...bike is ready (xt660z) just few £000 and good to go....hope you guys are in similar situations and hope for all of you to make your big trips...starting with this one

To carnet or not to carnet
 

Just wondering:...

Why I only have to deposit 3000 for a bike up to 15.000 Euro for IRAN costing me approx 200 Euro for the Carnet itselves (German ADAC).

And why you would not be able to do the same so (if you would like to).



I would surely have second thoughts with the costs / deposit you mentioned..

Leo

ADAC much cheaper
 

I looked through the form of the ADAC.
Seems all Europeans can use it.

ADAC Reise & Freizeit - Carnet de Passages - Englisch

application form:

http://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/Carnet%2...isch_18337.pdf
See table of fees:

Costs 199 Euro for members ADAC or other ANWB (NL) AA (uk?)
and 299 Euro for non-mebers of ADAC or sister organisations

1500 deposit but for Iran and some other countries 3000 for a bike with value of <15000 Euro.

There you are if you are member (as I am) 199 euro + 3000 deposit
if you are not a member 299 euro + 3000 Euro deposit

You will only loose the deposit if you are not able to get your bike out of the country (and get the right stamps)

I see no point why you should pay or deposit more.

At the German HU meeting this month, I met a Belgian guy who also got a carnet from the ADAC without any problems ..

I will try to depart from the Netherlands in May 2014 and probably go through Iran - Turkmenistan - Usbekistan - Kyschystan - Kazachstan - Mongolia and might have to return from there to be back in time..

Cheers ,
Leo

I'm really really thinking of doing this in 2014 now... It will be a major struggle to get the cash together but It is 'on paper' doable...

I'm going insane in a 9-6 Job.. Living the suberban nightmare.

Is anyone still genuinly interested ?? I like travelling with other people but then I do like to go at my own pace too.


I don't really want to do the real wild stuff on my own. I like to be in a team for safety and sanity.... LOL.

I've had mixed experiences with travel buddies in the past. Most are friends for life but one or two I still have nightmares about.. :eek3:

Flexibily is the key I guess...


I've done ZERO research but my XR650L restoration is almost fininised. I should have a pretty sorted overland bike in the next couple of months.

summer 2014 i'll be in Magadan first week of July or Zaribino about a week or so earlier than that, (i'll be coming in from S. Korea) heading east to the UK,

i know this is the opposite way you were thinking but, look at it this way, and i am guessing you have to return to a job afterwards, (are you taking a LOA?)

- you get to ride home, so you can adjust the pace (miles per day) as you need to towards the end if you are running short on time/ funds...
- weather/ roads/ borders are more predictable
- this is a lot more difficult to do because of unknowns heading east
- heading west bound it gets easier daily as you head back into civilization
- parts are more readily available if/ when you need them (opposite the other way around)
- it gives you an extra few months to make more money...
- you have to ship either way and i would think shipping into Magadan or Vlad is easier and cheaper than shipping out
- you deal with shipping agents in the UK who speak English
- your bike starts the RoB and BAM fresh not after 20,000 kms +/-
- you are riding on fresh tires and consumables
- i have a guy who can deliver new tires anywhere in Russia so easier to judge distances on fresh rubber (not so easy W to E) as you may end up carry them because of not knowing your when/ where you'll need them initially in Russia

just wanted to let you know...otherwise i'll wave to you as i ride by heading west...

i'll be on my KTM so make sure you keep in touch and we can meet up at some point...look out for me

http://dmh65.smugmug.com/photos/i-N5...-N5rp477-M.jpg

I did east to west last year, there are pro's and cons to it. The cons are riding into the sunset the further west you get and you start on the exciting stuff and after that its all a bit of an anti climax. But fresh bikes and fresh body are a plus for the old summer road and BAM.
We are organising a container to Vladivostok next year around middle of July then back in middle of Sept to UK, may have space available.

Cheers

Mark


Mark
www.bamriders.com

Big loop
 

Hey Ed,

I'm thinking of doing the big loop via Balkan, Turkey, Iran get via Tadjik Pamir HW into Kyrg and circle back through Kazach, Russia, Belarus etc. about 20K km, in as much time as it takes, start around April '14. The looping saves the hassle of shipping the bike back. Going to quit my job and ride an AT '97. Could this raise your interest?
Cheers,
Noel
Toyota Off The Map

riding into the sun...i'm kind of used to that living in the desert

as for starting on the exciting stuff and then the rest gets less and less interesting, just read your whole blog in one sitting and i see you came back mainly by Russia, i would be heading south into the Stans...also from the UK i am shipping back to South America from the UK and riding south again for the third time...more Ruta 40 and Ushuaia and go and see the places i missed the first two times...so again not an issue for me i have lots more craziness to come, also i have never ridden in mainland Europe also

BTW, like your website, i'll be in touch via PM or EM

Yeah we were running on a tight schedule so didn't make the Stans, they will have to wait. Sounds like you have a great plan, only wish I could come :(

meet me Irkutsk or Almaty and you can ride south into the Stans with me from there back to the UK

Everything raises an interest....

Looks like were heading in the same direction.....

Some serious interest is raised over here ass well .... :cool4:

My preferred route would be Netherlands, Turkey, Iran, TurkM, Tadjik, Kyrg, Mongolia :mchappy:.

Either ship bike back -or- with trans-Siberian express to Moscow -or- ride back.

Company would be very welcome... In fact I will not do Kyrg, Mongolia, Kazachst solo. (Stuck in the middle of nowhere with broken down bike / body seems very unattractive).

Surely hope this will work out
Cheers
Leo

For roads like the Road of Bones and Western BAM There are two windows ... the window of possibility and the window of ideal weather.

The window of possibility is early June to early September. Beyond that it will be sub zero on the Road of Bones. Already now (late August) in Yakutsk the daily minimums are 4 degrees C. You have an extra two weeks or so on the BAM Road before it gets similarly chillly. The Trans Sib Highway is usually OK till end of September and Vladivostok itself which is further south again, is OK till the end of October. Note also that if there is a late spring thaw, the meltwater that normally peaks in May can still be high in the first half of June.

The window of great weather is basically July. June 20th to first week of August at a stretch. This is when you are most likely to get warm sunshine, clear blue skies, seemingly endless 30 degree days (which actually end in a few short weeks).

Whether or not its a long term trend, I would note that the last few Augusts in particular have seen a LOT of rain.

The window is small and it is quite critical in terms of your planning. As is the weight of your bike for those roads. I strongly recommend you work with that info, rather than against it.

As Walter says, think very carefully about bike weight, luggage weight and quality of suspension on the bike, as well as timings as described. It's real expensive if you end up borrowing a mate's bike because yours is shagged. The chances of getting a bike to borrow are rather small unless your friend is otherwise engaged in the shagging department and needs his bike ridden. :D

That's my story from this year and the expense was worth it.

I haven't even got to the ridicule I will suffer in the coming months considering the brand of the borrowed bike and my previous utterances regarding it. ;-)

Look, I will cut you a break ... you rode an Italian Aprilia built bike with an Austrian built Rotax engine on swedish supension, a bike that retailed for about a third of the typical bike of that brand ... there is pretty much none of your feared brand in there. So dont beat yourself up too much mate! There is nothing to fear. Its not a REAL one of that brand of bikes. In fact it was so lacking in that brands DNA that they refused to recognise it, and kicked it out of the family home. !!! You did a good deed. You took an unloved bastard, orphan of a bike, a bike whose German father kicked it out of the family home cause he thought it was useless, a bike whose Italian mother, from whose loins it sprang, has never shown any interest in since birth, ... and you made it feel loved - you gave it a purpose - you showed it what its good at !

Ted: another thing I DO recommend you consider strongly, as its inevitable that there will be MANY deep puddles and river crossings, is to make sure your air intake is located as high as possible on the bike. I dont know how the 650L is set up, but if it isnt somewhere up near the fuel tank / upper head stem, then you have time to think about how you can relocate it or make a semi permanent snorkel.

There are many of these small things that back in the comfort and good weather od Europe you think ... " naaaa ... a couple of water crossings ... its no big deal. Worst comes to worst I will push the bike thru".

When you realise you have 20 of them a day, for a week, and how each puddle or river is full of football sized boulders that are a real struggle to push a bike over, you will wish the air intake was such that you can ride your bike thru anything less than "nuts deep"

heading east
 

OK Leo, so in what stage of planning are you and when do you plan on leaving? What is your timing, driving pace, hostels/camping, heavy off roading with ultra light bike or moderate, unsurfaced/gravel type of roads? The Trans-Siberia Express sounds like a good idea, always wanted to do that trip too!
:D

Cheers,
Noel

My 'on a fag packet' route is going to be.

UK - France - Germany - Visit a friend in Munich for a couple of days.

Through Eastern Europe (Undecided route) into Turkey.

Then maybe into Azerbaijan to get the Ferry from Baku to Aktau if I want to avoid Iran...

I haven't considered Iran. Carnet puts me off if I'm honest. Did all that in Africa and it's expensive and a stressful document to carry.

Then I guess it's through the Stans into Mongolia to Ulan bator..

After that, find some people who want to Magadan. July seems to be the 'Window' for Magadan meaning I need to be in Ulan batar for June.... If I don't make it in time then I'll just head to Vladivostok. I'm flexible and don't have 'in stone' goals for a trip.

I'd really like to meet people and travel with them after Turkey. I like travelling with others anyway. I always find it more fun. I have no problem riding alone also but I do like 'The Craic' of a wolf pack bier

Ted

1994 Honda XR650L. Fully restored and rebuilt by yours truly.

Nice, simple bike with good off road capability. I only use softbags too.

route east
 

I didn't think about the CdP issue yet. Seems you only need it for Iran. I know about the CdP hassle all to well from Africa too. Iran however seems to be an extraordinary country with extra ordinary people, in a very positive way. And places like Isfahan are of world class level. I don't know if I want to miss out on that because of the CdP hassle. I believe you can apply relatively easy via internet now with ADAC in Germany. Don't know how it is in the UK though. Also don't know the details about the bond yet for Iran.

I'm also considering riding to UB or Mag/Vlad now in stead of making the loop back, then take the Trans Siberia/Mongolia to Moscou, provided they can take the bike as cargo.

As for the Wolf Pack...yes definitely preferred over riding solo!

:mchappy::mchappy::mchappy:

Cheers,
Noel

Thanks so much for putting my troubled mind at rest Walter. I can sleep easy now without worrying about what people might taunt me with.

Iran does look fantastic. I'd love to travel there.. I'm trying to find out carnet costs for it.

However, It would be hard for me to justify spending hundreds of pounds on a carnet that I just need for one country.

Read this thread at the end... http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...4-3#post434310

It seems the carnet for Iran is VERY expensive. I don't think I can afford it on my budget..

There is a cost calculator on the Canadian Automobile Assosiation. It does seem quite high but Iran is one of the most expensive carnet countries it seems :(

http://www.caa.ca/travel-documents/c...st-calculator/

:(

Carnet cost
 

Ted,

You probably know this as you have been in Africa as well but if I summarize what i remember from Africa is the actual CdP costs about Euro 200/250,- for a 25 page CdP. Maybe a 10 pager (or less if available) may be cheaper. That is out of pocket money you wont get back.
What we did for Africa is actually transfer the bond ($6000,- or so for Egypt) into the acount of the automobile club, which we received back without ado after sending in the completed CdP upon our return. That was all straigh forward.

The cash bond however that you have to put up for Iran is very high. To avoid transferring cash money into the automibile clubs acount you can provide a guarantee or letter of credit from an insurer or bank. From the link you referred to, I make out that the bond for Iran is some 250% of the bike + gear vallue. Your Honda should be valued no more than $1000,- albeit a 'as good as new' bike due to the rebuilt but the age works in your favor, plus (max) $1000,- worth of gear. The bank/insurers bond/guarantee typically costs 1.5 to 2% of the bond! If the bond is set at 2.5 x $2000,- for your bike you would be looking at total cost of some Euro 300,- for CdP + bond cost!

Then again, you would save that money again in Iran because everybody seems to wanna invite you for diner over there :D

The amount stated at the CAA site seems a bit over the top to me! If that is what it is then I agree, $ 750,- carnet cost for a $1000,- bike is not acceptable!


Anyway, i think it's worth investigating possibilities to combine at least part of the trip and possibly join up after Iran again, or indeed skip Iran altogether. I'm waiting for a reply from Leonardo.

Cheers,
Noel

Yeah.. The Canadian one seems very excessive. My Africa carnet cost me 800 in total. I got a bank guarantee that time. However, my finances were a lot better then :/

More research required...

www.touringted.com

Carnet cost
 

800 for the Africa CdP is very high as well compared to what I paid. Because we didn't do the guarantee thing, we only spent the purchase value of the CdP with the Dutch automobile club which was Euro 225,- in 2005! The cash bond was returned 100%. Unfortunately they don't issue them anymore so we have to turn to the ADAC in Germany now but they are not much more expensive! Will do some research too with ADAC.
Cheers.

CdP ADAC
 

ADAC charges Euro 295,- for the CdP (195,- for members) and requires a
Deposit or Bank guarantee value of Euro 3000,-for Motorbikes upto a value of Euro 15.000,- for Iran. Should work out a lot less than the CAA site specifies.

Don't know if Brits can apply at ADAC as well but the T&C's don't say you can't. For Dutch it's the only option as far as I know.

We depending on the situation in Syria, Iran might not be possible at all :(

Iran
 

That is what I was thinking yesterday while watching the 20.00h news!

:funmeterno:

Time will tell!

Just an idea guys,I think I heard some time people are getting into Iran without a carnet but need to go in and out by the same border. If this can still be done you could just back track into turkey and take a ferry to Ukraine then onwards to Russia .

For British.... I think it's definitely bad.

Hi guys,

I planned to ride the western BAM and OSR this year from Ulan Bator (shipping the bike from Germany), but because of my work had to cancel everything. So I will be up for the same project for 2014, most probably during starting mid july in Ulan Bator and meeting in Irkutsk with HUBB member Bubbla who will ride from Sweden.

I also plan, if possible to sell my bike in Magadan around first or second week of August. Otherwise, I will be looking to share a container for Germany, but ideally I will sell my bike there. I will have only 4 weeks for my trip. We will both be riding KTM Adventure 640.


I read in this post that someone wants to make it with a R80 BMW. I would strongly not recommend this bike. I rod in 2011 from Switzerland to Mongolia with a R100Gs, and had some troubles in Mongolia in the river crossing, although there were not deep (30-40cm), because the air intake is much too low compare to other bikes. For the BAM, this will not work for sure.

I initially planned to ride from UB to Magadan with a new set of K60 Heidenau tires. What do you think about it? I have good experience on paved road with them, last +10'000km, and on dirt road the back one gave up after only 5000km, but I have a heavy bike (R100GS PD) compare to the 640 ADV.

My concern is, if I can't sell the bike in Magadan, will need to ride back to some major city like irkutsk or Ulan Bator, and I will not be able to do this with the same set of tires. I don't like so much the idea of having to carry a set of tire all the way with me, but I doubt I can find new tires in Magadan....

tires are not a problem...go online to MOTOREZINA.RU - свежая моторезина по разумным ценам. motokolesa, мотоколеса, моторезина, резина для мотоциклов they ship anywhere in russia to major cities as long as you give them around one month notice, i'll be having tires shipped to magadan as well for the ride west

I rode the western BAM and nrf this summer.

If the old summer road is not possible ( nobody achieved it in 2013), then I wouldn't bother heading for Magadan. The nfr and road between Tynda and Yakutsk is in my opinion totally pointless.

The BAM on any flat twin is impossible if you're forced to divert onto the railway bridges. The motor is too wide for where you're forced to ride. And then there's the height of the air intake as already mentioned.

I would not use K60 tyres on the BAM/ nfr/ osr. Not aggressive enough. Buy new aggressive rubber in Irkutsk and if you're going to ride from Magadan back to civilisation, make sure you have had tyres sent there in advance. You won't find anything in Magadan nor Yakutsk.

Hi rtw paul, thanks for the link!

Chris, that's a good point. If the road to Magadan is impossible, I will need to plane a backup itinerary going back to Ulan Bator and selling my bike there or leaving it there at the oasis for a futur trip....


I don't want to have to change my tires in Irkutsk, will send the bike with new tires.

How is it organized for the shipment of tires to Magadan? Is it expensive? How to pay, because I suppose we need to pay in advance.

I read an article about this alternative to tubes and mousses, does somebody knows about it? I am interested. There is an article in Motorrad Abendteuer from this month.

T-lock | 2012

Magadan on the NFR is always possible in summer (except this year :(...). The OSR requires luck with the weather (as well as good equipment and riding skill). Order tyres from Moscow from Dean/Denis and he will ship them to your chosen location(s).

MOTOREZINA.RU - свежая моторезина по разумным ценам. motokolesa, мотоколеса, моторезина, резина для мотоциклов

I'm sure you've looked at an atlas: UB to Magadan is about 5000km one way. Tynda to Magadan is 3000km.

Chris, are you at the Zen Cider Rally this weekend ??

I seriously need to swat up on this doh

No. Might drop in at the XRV national at Cumbria. But probably not either. After 6000 miles this summer, I'm a bit biked out at the moment. I will however be at Danny's Haggs Bank Opening in a couple of weeks.

If I bring a map will you scribble on it in return for beer ?? jeiger

Sounds like a deal!

yes Chris, I think a set of new tire will do the 5000km from UB to Magadan. But i will need to change them if I need to go back. That's a good thing tires can be sent to Magadan.

You can do it ... the two Norwegians on X-Challenges I rode with last year did the western BAM and then Old Summer Road on Mefo Super Explorers (basically same tyre).

Obviously a more aggressive tyre is considerably more confidence inspiring, and I would always prefer a long lasting full knobbly for that part of the world.

Michelin Desert, or else Mitas E09 Dakar if you're on a budget.

Colebatch, do the Michelin Desert or Mitas last 5000km? They don't wear out too fast on the road?

I was a little bit concerned about having the repair a flat tire with a rear desert, they are so hard, I am not sure I can manage to dismount the tire by myself.

Colbatch, I red that you tired mousse on the Eastern BAM and they didn't last the whole trip. What do you think about other alternatives like T-lock systems or Tubliss?

I'd substitute "considerably more confidence inspiring" with "mandatory" if the weather turns bad.

This year, as we know, there was big water/mud. You "can" do anything, with enough time and friends to drag you out of holes (assuming your clutch holds:confused1:). I really wouldn't want to ride a road biased tyre like a k60 on what I did this summer.

As we've seen with Ladas overtaking 950 ktms :innocent: and Transalps failing, in bad weather, only a light bike with good suspension/tyres will make it without it becoming an epic.

IMHO: Avoid Pirelli mt21: They wear far far too fast. Go for the Desert.

I get about 6000 km out of Michelin Deserts (riding a 650cc bike aggressively off road) so you should too - just dont ride on the highways too much. The Desert front in particular is a bit squidgy on asphalt when it is new. You can fit them in Irkutsk, or do what I did last year and pick tyres up in Irkutsk and fit them in Zhigalovo, after the asphalt has ended.

I would reckon you will get 8000 out of an E-09 Dakar.

Both are very stiff rear. The Desert has 5 or 4 ply construction (depending if you go for the older (5 ply) classic model or the newer slightly softer "Desert Race" model designed for the modern 450cc Dakar bikes (4 ply). I tried both last year on legs of 6000 km each, and both lasted the distance. The Mitas is 4 ply (Make sure you get the Dakar model, with the yellow stripe) also. (standard E-09 is only 3 ply and too soft). That makes it very stiff and tough as well, but slightly harder to fit / repair flats. Dont let that put you off tho. You dont want to be fixing flat tyres daily on the BAM. Get a stiff tyre.

For what its worth, in 4 trips across Eurasia on them, I have never had to repair a flat on a Desert rear. Because they have never got one. Thats the upside to tough stiff tyres.

As for tubliss or t-lock, never tried them. The 950 that did the BAM this year I believe was using tubliss, but seemed to have to stop a hell of a lot to pump it up. Not sure its worth it. I never had a flat on the BAM just by using good tyres and not deflating too much. I run about 1.6-1.7 bar there. Any less and you do start to increase flat tyre risk

Myself and a friend did Magadan, OSR, western BAM, then down to Ulan Bator and across Mongolia running Michelin Deserts on 690's.
They were new on at Magadan and lasted until Barnaul (bit bald by then), excellent tyres with 4mm tubes, only had one front flat with them.
We did have good weather so lasted really well, i'd recommend them.

Yeah I reckon thats probably getting close to 9000 km ... about 3000 past what I would recommend ... no wonder a bit bald by then.

Still... you dont need that much traction in Mongolia.

Zimi, you can certainly get more KM out of them as Harry has pointed out, if you run them with low tread ... I have just suggested mileage for them with still good healthy tread for offroading

Good guess 9181kms! :clap:
Mongolia was no problem on the bald tyres, although I did fall over twice in the last river crossing on the northern route near the Tsaangur border crossing.
I blamed it on the blad tyres and not my lack of riding skills! :scooter:
But they were great tyres, will be using them again.

Being slightly sensible...
 

I'm going to do this trip in 2015 now..... I was really being optimistic thinking I could save enough money before April. If the BAM has to be ridden in July, leaving any later would be rushing. And I hate to rush...

When I travel, I like to have the money to actually enjoy myself instead of penny pinching every single day.

I think I'll do a trip around eastern Europe in 2014 and test out my rebuilt bike...


I'll still be following this thread with great enthusiasm and gathering intersest for 2015 bier

it can be ridden in August, its just you are lot more likely to have rain ... same for the road of bones

well you see ... I've done this before bier

I want £8000 in the bank before I leave. If I leave the UK in April/may I'll have about £5000 and that's with selling a bike I don't want to. Think I'll ride up to nordcap instead and some shorter blasts about..

Well try it on 5k and take a credit card or something to make up the extra 3k if needed, the younger the better i say and alot can change in another year

I was living/working in Perth Oz working offshore and one dinner break whilst bored i started searching the internet looking at blogs ect ect and i said to myself i would do my bike test and then plan a trip around 2015.

I had a bad day at work in February on a Monday and 3 days later i jacked my job and was back in the UK, 6 weeks/3 bike tests later i was preparing my DRZ and getting visa's.


First time i rode my bike was to Dover, my bike would not fit through the back garden gate with the side bags on and i fell off leaving the back of my house as i never rode the bike with the side bags:D

You know whats best for you and you are a experienced traveler but i would live for now and not later in a sensible way

Life is to short

Wesley, you're dead right mate. And I am usually just like that. I've been travelling like that for the last 8 years. I've spent a fortune, owe a lot of money and have no career !!

Do I regret it... NOT FOR A SECOND :thumbup1:

This time however, I refuse to use a credit card. I'm in the early stages of starting a welding/fabrication business and I have invested A LOT of cash in it. It's a long term plan to give me freedom to travel in the future. At the moment I'm working like a bloody dog for company's who make all the cash off my back. Screw them... I just need to be semi-sensible for 12-18 months to refill the war chest and not be scratching around on the dole when I get home..

I'll still be travelling next year but for the Magadan trip, I really want to make the most of it and be able to spend money on Vodka beer

:scooter:

We are sorting out a container to Vladivostok to be there next year mid July and then return early September.
5 places so far, you are welcome to jump in either way or both if you fancy.

Mark
www.bamriders.com

chnange of plans
 

He Ted,
I'm thinking of going back to my original plan for 2014......Morocco and Europe and recently that's evolved in Morocco and Nordkapp! April/May Morocco and June back home and enjoy local summer time and July/August Nordkapp and then subsequently October or so to Oz for a couple of months, where I still have a Landcruiser standing and waiting for me. So who knows.....
Cheers,
Noel

Too right Wes ...

Something to think about Ted ... If you want to go to Magadan via the legendary Old Summer Road, go next year.

The single biggest challenge on that road is the Kyubeme River crossing right at the western end of it.

Its the bridge where Ewan and Charley were faffing about at and Claudio just climbed across the collapsed bridge and went to sleep in the abandoned village on the other side. Eventually the bikes were loaded up into their support trucks and driven over the next morning.

Well to cut a long story short, the collapsed bridge, which had been collapsed and derelict for 30 years, finally got swept away in spring floods last year. The remains of the old wooden bridge were pulled down in October last year and this year a new concrete pylon was planted in the middle of the river for a new concrete bridge to be completed by the end of next year.

So next summer is your last chance to do the Old Summer Road, complete with the full Kyubeme River crossing. Once there is a brand new concrete bridge over the hardest part, it wont feel the same.

If you are worried about costs, skip Turkey and other expensive close to home bits that you can do another time.

I am constantly putting up to date info on that part of the world, as well as historical pics of interest from the BAM and Road of Bones on the Sibirsky Extreme facebook page (link in sig line). It may be useful to follow it if you are planning to go to that part of the world.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...98130869_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...92406417_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...33258926_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...38479393_n.jpg