RANT: whats wrong with bikers!
 

Ah, it may just be localised. I was out today and passed about 12 bikers and every one of them waved or nodded. Although this is by no means the norm.
Matt

Could it be the 'born-again' factor in the UK?

I suspect that a lot of the "bikers" we see today on new machines and in pristine leathers are very new to biking and don't know about the biker wave .
They probably wouldn't know what to do in a breakdown situation anyway .
Maybe it's just an irrational fear of scruffy bikers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just keep waving that's what I do , they will get the message eventually .

BTW, why do N American motorcyclists wave with the hand and arm horizontal or even facing downwards ? That's always puzzled me .

Could this have anything to do with it????


http://www.irishbikerforum.com/forum...8704&hl=waving

Not that hard to figure out
 

I've just bought my first landy, and started getting waved at by say 30% of landys I meet. Its not that hard to figure out why!!!! And its great, always brings a smile to my face and makes me nearly run over any bikers as I desperately try to wave back :)

But it is great and I've started doing it too, although I'm still learning who to do it to ....... (clue nr one, not the military!)

Could just be they are concentrating on the road so much, they did not see you.

Stop worrying about it and ride

Funny link Kevin I think this explains it LOL.

Dodger I believe that it is physically impossible to raise your hand any higher with 24 inch apehangers and your feet out by the front wheel, (only kidding Harley riders, most custom riders do wave and stop, even had a chop myself once)

It may be Born-again riders, the increase in this sort of behaviour does seem to coincide with the increase in bike sales over the past couple of years, I applaude anyone getting a bike and learning to ride, it’s the best feeling in the world (well almost!) but they should show a bit of respect to those they are beginning to share the road with, they may learn something, at the end of the day if someone said hello to you in the street you wouldn’t totally blank them, its ignorant and rude, so why do it on a bike?

Cornish, If I see a blue landy called Dino coming towards me I shall be wary!

Bruce, that’s a scary comment how can you concentrate so much you don’t see things?? You don’t drive a Volvo do you? (only pulling your leg!)

Now where did I put my pills? - Greg

Non wavers
 

Perhaps the reason people don't wave is the same reason people don't put anything in their profiles or locations on their web site postings.

stoopid opinion
 

i don't wave sometimes cuzz i'm just the ornery type... other times because i am harboring romantic delusions of being such an independant loner.. (always thought it was funny to see riders en masse), other times because i KNOW i am superior to who ever is riding in my direction..also because i KNOW i ride a better bike..( or at least it has cooler stickers plastered on the panniers) etc etc etc..

but i always, always, always stop if it looks like a rider needs help....sometimes i actually do, help i mean. recently i stopped for two bikes on the shoulder between cuernavaca and mexico city.. one guys bike (sport bike) ,was damaged, said he had wiped out on gravel on a curve a few miles back.. now his tire was flat.. i let him use two canisters of co2 and he took off going about 90mph on a half inflated tire.. those mexican guys ride FAST .....

p.s. has anyone seen that guy on the k100rs near salt lake city that gives the S.S. STORMTROOPER HEIL HILTLER (stiff arm and all) salute?

Hi,
I see everybody is right here. But nobody answer the question: "what happened within last a few years":

We changed too much. Everybody is much more selfish then before.
By looking your bike many people may think you are a big shot or an ordinary, less earning man.
We started to not respect other people as it was before.
With the help of politics and papers we started to divide people to their origins, beliefs and life style. Humanity, what is that? Throw it away. We are important only. Who are we? The rich, stron, well clothed, having money in the pocket, white and riding an expensive bike.

I had an awful accident some years ago and nobody has been stopped to help. I could die because of blood loose. At last the man who hit me stopped in the middle of the road and stopped a car with force.

Humanity has to face with himself again. Where are we/I going?
What do I loose / earn by doing this way?

Sure I and many people here help any body on the road, wave them and so we are member of HUBB. Can't respect other behaving, fancy looking riders.

Everyone of us responsible from our own. So we must look ourselves first and do the right.

Regards

Samy,
I had a slider on the ice last year. Slid about 20 feet on my right side. The woman in the 4WD behind me just drove round me lying in the road. Didn't even look at me.
Don'tcha just love some people!
Matt

Big deal; so they didn't wave. Maybe they were thinking about work, had a fight with the wife/girlfriend/whatever, they were paying attention to the road instead of you, etc.

Waving is nice Bruce. I think biking in the UK has become very fragmented over the last 20 years or so, if you grew up on bikes in the 70's and 80's (and obviously before) riding a bike was enough to make you part of a homogenous group. Now it seems it's what you ride and wear that defines you as part of a group within a group and decides who waves to who and who might stop to help you. That's a bit of a shame I think. As a generalisation that hasn't happened in continental Europe where there seems to be more solidarity amongst the biking fraternity.

Everybody wave!

Dave,
I think what you say about europe is interesting as I find I get hardly any waves in Europe. These days, when over there, I don't bother waving till someone waves at me.
As to the 'fragmentation' of the biking community I'm not sure that is right. On my big traillie I get the same number of waves from all types of biker, except possibly a FEW more from other guys on the de riguer 'adv' bikes (GSs, Tigers, V-Stroms etc.) especially when I have me boxes on! ;)
Among sports bike/cruiser/road tourer the response is similar.
I have also found round these parts, that while most bikers will pass a stranded biker, a critical few will always slow/stop to see if you are OK.
Waving is more prevelant in the North too, in my experience.
Matt

I found this site from a link. They are in the US, but I think they are trying to go international. It seems like something to look into for Europe, too, judging by this thread. (The US has long been fragmented within the biker community), as well as hostile traffic from 4 wheeled vehicles.

http://www.bikerfriend.org/

In many instances the wave is merely a matter of numbers, the more bikers you encounter, the less likely you are to wave. The same thing happens with cage drivers in Australia, as you get further away from the cities and into the outback, people start waving as you go past and are more likely to stop and help if you are broken down.
Sean

Matt, I guess this just shows that it is probably a very subjective thing we are talking about here. My own recent experience, mainly in Iberia, and on both my sports bike and off road bike is that more or less everybody gives you a wave as you pass by - from scooters to superbikes. Luckily i haven't had the need of roadside assistence ( I ride Hondas!). Last time I rode in England there seemed to be a very cliquey thing going on, very tribal and exclusive. It was not what I remembered whilst living and riding in England. Maybe I am looking at the past through rose-tinted spectacles.

got three waves today out of seven - still trying - i did put some more wax on me jacket and cleaned the bugs off me lid, thinking of buying an iridium screen for the gpz - lol - greg

I just give everyone a wave - if they don't wave back it's their loss.

I will say though that it isn't easy to see someone waving a black glove when they wear a black jacket.

In Europe - I thought we were in Europe - most of the bikers "shake a leg"

Anyway if I see you stopped / broken down I'll pull over ....

Sorry Bill, I have updated my profile, Cheers Mate - Greg

Insecurity
 

If you want to wave go ahead. If you are going to worry about them waving back perhaps this is showing just a tad of insecurity.

Riq

Hi Riq, think your missing the point. I don’t think its an issue of insecurity, I think its an issue of manners, I don’t go home and cry myself to sleep or suffer from the Oprah, Montel, Trisha disease of “low self esteem” because I did not get a wave, I consider myself to be a pretty grounded sort of person. It’s too easy to label people in this way.

It costs nothing to be polite, what I am concerned about is that fact that ten years ago everyone seemed to acknowledge each other and help each other out, it isn’t just a wave it’s an acknowledgement of a shared interest or common bond that extends beyond what piece of kit you have just bought or what machine you ride. However IMHO this is dying out which is a pity.

The day when motorcyclists regard each other as just another road user will be a sad day indeed.

Now I am going off to have a cry and eat some chocolate. Cheers - Greg

Depends where you are
 

The closer to London you are ,the less likely you are to get a nod or a wave. So many here ride through pure practicality. You won't even get an acknowledgment when you are stopped at the lights together. In France bikers will wave or stick a foot out, without exception. In South America absolutely everyone waves which is one of the reasons I love it so much!

Yes
 

Yes XTM I agree, we are European, though many Brits choose to ignore the fact. The continentals shake a leg because they pass you on your left, and so can´t wave with their (right) throttle hand.

Good roads

How about bike reliability?
 

For the record I'm a waver!

I must agree that things have changed with the wave and even with stopping to help. I think it is kind of funny that the people I see the most broken down at the side of the road are also the same people on the Harleys that are too cool to wave.

It is definitely a function of how many other bikes there are on the road and where you are. Near major urban centres, with loads of bikes it's more difficult to get the return wave but out in the sticks more common. Same thing for the stop to help. We just returned from a trip up to Inuvik, which by most definitions is pretty remote. Every single biker waved back and most automobile drivers did too. We stopped by the side of the road for a break, eating a plum, and people (cars and bikes) would stop and see if we were OK. Here at home, near Calgary, I may or may not get people to stop no matter what's wrong.

By the way, whenever I see a European motorhome with Euro plates (here in North America) I always wave and I usually get a return. Hey, they're travellers too!

France
 

In my experience you still get lots of waves in France (outside of big towns).
Also I would like to clarify the "rules" as it seems from the above that there is a bit of confusion:

You wave (with your left hand) to say "Hello"
You stick your (normally right) leg out to say "Thank you" - especially when cars etc... get a bit out of the way so that you can overtake, it is the custom to stick a leg out to say Thanks once the overtake is done!

I've had to explain many times to my french friends why UK riders never say "thank you" when cars get out of the way to let bikers overtake. Some of my friends even told me that if they realise that the biker behind is from the UK, they won't make it easier for the biker to overtake as they are "so rude". I had to explain that things are just different in the big Island! so please if someone in France position themselves so that it is easier for you to overtake, don't forget the "leg signal"! :)

It may have something to do with traffic today.
As the previous posters wrote, waving is less near big cities.
When I am driving in dense traffic near a big city, I have all my attention on the road in the direction/lane I'm driving and sometimes I notice the biker in the opposite lane to late to wave back.
This has nothing to do with lack of respect so please, don't take it to personal (don't go complain to Oprah ;-)

On a two lane countryroad, I always wave back because I notice the other biker in time.
I don't think it has anything to do with the kind of bike you ride. I have been riding all kinds of bikes, Harley's, GoldWings, BMW's, Yamaha's and even an Russian Ural and I did not notice any difference in waving back.
On Harley forums, members complain that GoldWing riders don't wave back, on GoldWing forums the Harley riders don't wave back etc.


When I see a stranded rider, I always try to stop to offer help but the same as with waving, in big city or freeway traffic, it is not always possible to stop in time on a safe way so then I hope the next biker will stop.
Also I think that a lot of "new motorcycle riders" don't know that habbit until someone tells them.

Well, maybe I can wave to some of you on the road to the Belgian meeting next month (and maybe even shake hands and have a beer :-)

waving
 

I'm getting waves from car drivers as well. and from time to time from bystanders. but the most rememberd was a policeman on a honda in Egypt 3 years ago,He waved and I waved him back and went on. 10 km later I was stopped by another one, saying I had to spot when I was waved at :)

Waving not frowning
 

Greg
I have just spent the summer in Lincolnshire and had a mixed reaction from the Yellowbellies. I actually found that most bikers nodded rather than waved.

I have a few questions for those who ride regularly in the UK.

Is a nod the same as a wave in terms of greeting?

Is a quick flash of the headlight OK, as a lazy option, or does it indicate something else and possibly annoy riders?
How far down the c.c. scale should I take my friendliness? I don’t think I’m a snob but I didn’t wave to the numerous oncoming mopeds and scooters unless I couldn’t tell what they were. Then when they passed I felt a bit silly. Any pointers?

Stephan

My interpretation of a biker (or any on-coming vehicule) flashing at me would be "Caution, Police ahead, reduce speed!" :)

Hi Stephano, a flash of the lights can give out a mixed message IMHO, also car drivers can interpret this as a “to go” signal and pull out in front of you which keeps you on your toes! A nod or a wave is fine as some people are not comfortable with taking their hands off the bars.

I tend to wave to everyone including mopeds (I own a Yamaha Townmate so ride a Moped during the worst of winter) and admit that a lot of moped riders don’t respond.

Hope the Yellowbellies didn’t treat you too bad, we can be a funny bunch at times!!

Also I use the waving of the right arm hand flat out, arm straight at shoulder level to knee to indicate police presence or as a general slow down signal for road debris, accidents etc, anyone else use this, it was told to me by an old biker as a universal sign, but I don’t see it much?

Cheers - Greg:clap:

Perhaps UK bikers only wave with a 'high hand' as we drive on the left and a simple drop off the hand like the US/Cans do wouldn't be seen from the other side. The simple drop off or even a twist of the wrist so the hand barely moves is easier to do. That's also perhaps why we tend to nod more???

You missed a point about the US - Harley riders wave maybe 1 in 100. Sportsbikes 100 in 100 and even the Golwings about 70%. Just an observation!

Anyone who didn't see a bike coming may also not see the deer/cop car/ Volvo U turning and therefore surely isn't concentrating enough!

RANT: whats wrong with bikers! Reply to Thread
 

Hello there fellow hubbers,
I wave most of the time at oncoming riders; however, when my speed is above 60 kms p/hr, congested traffic or using the clutch, I will simply give a nod or flash the headlight. Be safe and ride free!!:biggrin3:
Correction: 60 mph not 60 km/hr and sorry to all that I flashed my highbeam to on the road; when all I meant was, hello.

Down here in the South West I have found the following to be recognised by all:

1. Generally tilting your head to the side is hello; nobody waves
2. Some, including me, slick out the right leg to indicate to the bike coming up behind me that I have seen them and they can come past; or to say thanks.
3. I always wave with my left hand after passing a car that has given me a gap but sometimes it's just extending the fingers while still holding on to the handle.
4. Flash of the lights means beware cops ahead or danger in the road ahead and is only used for that purpose.
5. "Cops ahead" can also be indicate by tapping the side of your helmet with your left fist.

The tendancy to greet or wave decreases the closer you get to London.

Hi Bossies,
I agree about flashing your lights. I normally assume it to mean 'speedtrap ahead' or 'accident ahead'.
Matt

Thanks for the clarification. All much as I thought except for the left fist gesture.

I'll continue to nod rather than wave but I'm still not sure what to do if I see Denis on his Honda 90 rather than his Africa Twin.

http://www.kiwi-us.com/%7Egeifuu/PostaBK05.JPG

just do it
 

Well that's me on the back of the 90 so I think you'll know what to do. I hope you'll know what to do unless you're......?????

Hi Bossie

All that tapping,flashing , extending, indicating and waving! It's so busy!
If I see you on the road I'll give you a gesture however....

Good roads!

Hi Rodger
Are you sure about all this? I mean really, really sure?

XXGood roads!

I'm regularly down that way and my experience is pretty much the same. Nobody really waves, it's usually just a nod of the head. And yes, the closer I get to London, the less it happens. Usually, the M25 is my cut off of when to start/stop nodding. London bikers are so miserable. And I would always stop and help a fellow rider. And I never nod to scooter riders. They never nod back.

Maybe they dont wave to you because of the bikes you ride?

Hi Denise

Ditto, even if you happen to be on the 90 ;-)

Warm tyres

Bossies

Nah. Scooter riders don't wave because they're either a) hoodies, b) urban trendies or c) car drivers who had to face congestion reality. Seriously, I've heard stories of people turning up to CBTs and they can't even ride a bicycle!

Hi Flossie

ESPECIALLY if Im overtaking you on the 90!

XXDenise

....well with my headrace bearings dying on me today that might just have been possible

Smooth roads

Flossie (Bossies with wings)

Zut!
 

Well Bossie

Youre lucky with the bearings - Im stuck near Clermont Ferrand in France with the AT dead with some electrical charging problem after 40,000mls of trouble free biking ...I had just taken a pic of the speedo at 100,000 mls when the problem showed.

about to phone for recovery service, get back to the UK for work on Monday, transfer pannier racks to my other AT in time for the Belgian meeting on -8th-10th.

Hope youre bearing up well!

Wave? Who me? You bet!
 

I ride around North America and that's a reasonably big chunk of real estate. I have to say that waving and stopping to help is very much alive and well. I broke a fuel pump on my 1200 K bike whilst on the busiest highway in North America (the 401) and within half an hour there was a 4X4 towing a monster covered trailer wading through the ditch to get me and this whole circus was fetched by a very polite fellow on a Hog. On the flip side I've pushed a Harley that had some starter probs (damn near had a heart attack with that paper wieght), fetched some fuel for another guy and phoned for a fellow and his wife to get picked up after his Wing died. As for waving, my buddy and I have discussed getting spring loaded neon hand that activates with a push of a button, but we haven't found anything right just yet so I'll just continue to wave like some demented idiot and enjoy every second of it. I hope the "I'm better/loftier/richer/own a different bike/could care less 'virus' doesn't hit my turf. It would be a very sad day if it did because you meet the nicest people on a busted bike.

Ride safe, ride far,
Stu

I used to get that when I drove a landy but I was driving up the motorway from portsmouth docks in my landcruiser H60 after getting back from Africa, still filthy and tooled up, and got a wave from a classic range rover driver, now THAT suprised me!!

oh yes, and the other day when my moggie minor broke down in lane 5 of the M25 in rush 3hrs a guy with a vw camper helped me push it to the side, while all the beemers and mercs tried to run us over.
when a guy fell of his push bike a while back all the cars in front of me drove round him, as he bled profusely and tried in vain to get up. Me and some Army medics stopped.
basically it's down to the individuals, but I would rather be a nice guy than an asshole!! and maybe if you do something for someone, when your the one on the side of the road someone will do something for you!

Truer words have rarely been uttered!

Wawing
 

Here in Finland about 8 in 10 bikers wave back if I wave (raise my hand) for them. I havent tried not to wave.. A couple of times I was concentrating on something else and didnt have time to react when someone waved. Ofcourse if you are using the clutch you cant wave.

But it creates trust to humanity when someone waves before you can.:tongue3:

Are we seeing all of the waving?
 

When I first started motorcycling everyone waved when we passed each other, and always stopped if the other was stopped. Since then I have continued to acknowledge other motorcyclists but I now nod rather than wave when I'm in the UK. Driving on the left behind a fairing I'm not certain my waved left hand could be seen by an oncoming rider.

I also make a point of always thanking a car that lets me past, dropping the left hand off the bar at home or waving the right leg overseas are not that difficult.

If I see someone stopped by the roadside I usually stop (there are exceptions). I doubt I can offer much practical help for a breakdown, but I can check you don't need medical help or I can loan you my mobile to phone for assistance, or just to tell your partner you're running late.

Twenty years ago in the UK, just about every biker acknowleged me and at traffic lights, when they realised I was a girl, they would try to goad me to race.

The last time I rode a bike in the UK was 6 years ago and the bike (Moto Guzzi California) got more attention than I did.

Last year, riding from the UK to Spain, through France and Andorra - not many waves through UK, EVERY biker in France stuck theire leg out, but when we got to Spain, nothing, nada.

The hubby and I both have XT's and we get ignored by 95% of bikers here - the only ones who acknowlege us generally have panniers on their bikes (as do we). Why? Because the Spanish think we are police. They haven't seen Metal Mules before so they don't know what they are. We're still on UK plates, but even when the cars go speeding past us on the motorways, they usually put their brakes on as they're passing.

But yesterdays incident was probably the most disappointing. There's a big Hog rally in Fuengirola this weekend and the hubby was on his way back from work when he overtook about 30 Harleys on the motorway - he was only going a few mph more than them. He waved to them all as he passed and not one of them acknowleged him. What made it worse - just about every one of them was on a UK plate!!!!

So, if any of you get back to the UK, read this and can remember my hubby on his blue XT with MM panniers on a UK plate passing you slowly and waving, why didn't you wave back????????????

Life is just too short to be bothered by such total BS. Just Ignore. :scooter:

Mollydog, I think I may just take your advice and ignore. Two things happened this weekend which left me speechless. On Saturday morning, we were overtaken by a Honda cruiser. Both me and the hubby not only pulled to one side to let him pass, but we both waved as he passed us. His reaction? Nothing. No thanks, no acknowledgement, nothing.

I was 40 yesterday and we spent the day out riding and visiting some of the local beauty spots. We pulled into the car park at El Torcal and there was a Harley and a Honda cruiser getting ready to leave. We both got off our bikes and waved as they were pulling away and I can only describe the looks on their faces (pillion aswell) as pure contemp. It's a wonder they could see where they were going with their heads tipped so far back in order for them to look down their noses at us. Even the Guardia Civil that pulled us over in the afternoon were friendlier, and their reputation is anything but.

How sad that there is now a growing breed of riders who are anything but like-minded travellers. Or are they just too scared to take their hands off the handlebars and wave back? I never had that problem with the Cali, so I can only assume it is down to ignorance/snobbishness/elitism or all three.

A wave, a polite nod, a smile or a thank you costs nothing, but makes the world a happier place. I would be embarrassed now to be part of the growing cruiser culture and from now on, I will ignore.

Hand and feet signals
 

Hellsteeth Dakota, I was thinking of getting a cruiser, but you have put me right off them now - tested a Honda V Twin 1800 a few years ago and that sure has some torque!! :eek3:
Just kidding, but not about the torque.

I guess I have cut back on the waving bit, since I have been riding a "sit up and beg" style bike during the past few years; so called sports bikes are still the thing to own in the UK and I was usually waving when riding a "firesomething", but those guys do not acknowledge my presence on the road nowadays - most of them anyway.

Now I generally stick with a nod of the head - kind of ambiguous.
You can still get their attention with a thumbs down however!!

I sometimes use the right leg (as used by French riders for a thankyou) to let faster bikes know that I have seen them in my mirror & I am expecting them to pass me and which side I expect them to pass - the right obviously, but it ain't neccessarily so in this day and age on our roads!! (this is used on race tracks for this purpose) - but from the usual hesitation that this induces, I am not sure that this is understood.

Cheers,
Dave

A few points to add... if you go to Aus, most bikers don't wave. It is more like a "I'm cool" cockhanded nod of the head. So look out for that too. just as friendly but not as obvious.

Other then that.. I will always stop, In fact I will stop whether in car or bike. I also have to say, that the best for others stopping has been by far the USA, then Australia, then Spain...(spanish waved a lot too, but they stick out there legs..) The UK :nono:not one of 30+ bikes that passed stopped for me when i was on the side of the road and that included a bikecop (and I was illegally parked)! In the USA I several time I pulled up to do some thing like look at map or get a drink or whatever the next bike that goes pass always pulls over.:thumbup1: Australia there does seem to be a caste system, I have never had a sports bike pull up, tourers mostly do (and the funny thing is the worst condition the bike the more likely it is they will stop), have not seen enough HDs or cruisers in the places I ride (or break down) to know.

Even on the way back from the HU meet here in the Uk I saw a bike and pulled up.. interrupted his phone call but better be safe then sorry.

So lets keep it up and wave, nod, stick a leg out (which always confused me), and lead by example.. Pay it forward as they say:thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::clap::clap::D:D

Sticking a leg out comes from continental bikers ,who when passing you, cant raise a right hand from the throttle so wave a leg instead.

Know what you mean about the torque - the Cali had a fair bit of it's own.

Don't be put off getting a cruiser - just don't become one of the ignorant morons who rides one. I don't like to tar everybody with the same brush and I apologise to those of you who do wave (thought I myself haven't come across one on the road since I rode the Cali). And before anybody asks, yes, the hubby had a Harley in his early biking days and we had the Cali 8 years ago, so we've had cruisers, and no, I still don't get it.

It wasn't like this 20 years ago - we were one big happy family of bikers, but sadly no more. The bikers in the car park may have looked as us because we're English, who knows. But how can 25 fellow countryman ignore a fellow biker??

So while I'm having my rant, I'll have a few more. I also dislike intensely the 'my bike is better than your bike' syndrome AND the elitism of what constitutes an adventure - driving in Spain, it's an adventure for me to ride to the next village to get my weekly shopping. Adventure is a state of mind, not how many miles you ride, how many wheels you travel on or where you go.

It's all beyond me. Nuff said. I'll get off my soapbox now.

I just wave or nod at all bikers, (even the little scooters:helpsmilie: ) most acknowledge me, some don't, oh hum:9898: . I have noticed a attitude amongst some factions, but that is their problem, not mine:yawn: I give these types a extra special wave/nod, it seems to wind them up:clap:
Keep waving/nodding, you know it makes sense:thumbup:


Trophymick

Be careful
 

Mick, like you I nod to almost everyone; if I didn't nod check who is walking along the pavement on my side of the road - I can get distracted :eek3:!

I do remember worrying about having nodded once - a very young lad (didn't look as if his chin had ever met a razor) on an obviously new moped who had just been ignored by a group of riders who had just passed me. Being a friendly type I gave him a wave, and the shock on his face was scary, I was worried I might have given him such a shock as to cause an accident!

In April Mrs MarkE & I spent a weekend in East Anglia, visiting Ely cathedral and some other interesting histrical buildings. As it was the first (and last) good weather this year the roads were full of bikes, to the extent Mrs MarkE thought I had developed Tourettes! About half nodded or waved back.

Morning all.
<waves>
Sun is out.
<waves again>

A perspective .
 

When I started riding motorbikes in the UK of the seventies ,I suppose we were hairy bikers .Certainly if you walked into a pub or restaurant wearing a leather or a Barbour jacket you were very likely to get thrown out before you could utter a word .
We were seen, I guess ,as a subculture ,the evil children of society .A tag that was hung on us because of the antics of the Rockers during the sixties .

We weren't acknowledged by society ,so it was normal to acknowledge one another on the road by a nod or a wave .Bikes were owned by cash strapped enthusiastic kids [like me] , "Ride to work Ronnies" on commuter bikes who didn't really count as bikers and -those guys we all envied - ,the experienced tradesman who rode bikes out of choice and had the latest and best machines .

Time passes and bikes are now usually the second or third vehicle in the household .Bike owners are less enthusiastic and ride in the summer instead of all year round .The social barriers are less visible these days and many bike riders do not really know much about the bikes they ride.
There used to be only "standard " bikes available , if you wanted a cafe racer or a chopper you had to make it yourself .Now you can buy just about any kind of bike you can imagine with zero input from the owner other than providing the cash .So the individual involvement is less .
Cafe racers used to be my cup of tea but I'd always wave or flash my lights to chopper riders ,not only to acknowledge them as fellow riders but aslo the input and effort they put into their machines .
Cameraderie I guess .

Motorcycling is fragmented because of the specialised bikes and the riders they attract .The commitment to bikes is less because the only input is cash ,when cash is short the bike will go before the car .
That's why they don't wave ,they don't see themselves as motorcyclists .

Wave to the buggers ! [and shake your head when they don't wave back ]

Thumps Up! Very cool. Those guys can RIDE!

Overtaking "come on"
 

Mollydog,
I reckon that copper (that is a good old-fashioned English word!) was showing you which side he expected you to come back at him with your own overtaking.:rolleyes2:

Dave

wave to everyone
 

when i first came here i wondered why everyone needs to stretch their legs after overtaking me! only to find out that's how they wave here. due to overtaking on the left you would need to leave go of throttle! =no gas = no overtaking! so we wave with foot(me included now)!
as for filtering it's normal here, even the police move over for you if your sensible with it. once going down a road at 70kmh in a 70kmh zone i was passing cars who were doing exactly 70! after passing so many i came upon a gendarme doing (yes you've guessed 70kmh). he moves over to the right,flashes his indicator and lets me pass:thumbup1: . thought it was dodgy at first but passed sensibly and waved with my leg. great stuff i thought!
also i stop if i see a biker at the side of the road,even in my 40ton truck!
we need to stick together. we are one.
only one bad experience was when i started biking on the road in 1986 riding a fs1e 50(dont laugh we all started somewhere). stopped at a little chef in newtown,wales. went in and was told to leave because they dont accept bikers! not impressed and have'nt been to one since!

Petit Chef
 

Nice Story Kev.
Your missing Petit Chefs I would think (not) :rolleyes2: - just as well because a number of them seem to be boarded up and deserted; can't say I will miss them either!

Dave

Try the "hello kitty" wave :

YouTube - BIKER WAVES

When I started riding,in the mid'60s,it was common practice that,when a motorcyclist was stopped at the side of the road for a fag/piss ect,he'd give the thumb-up sign to any passing motorcyclist that all was well. The sign to give if you needed assistance was the thumb-down. I still use those signs today.Unfortunately,most of todays riders don't understand such sign language.They just look at me,uncomprehendingly.in much the same way that a cow looks at a passing train!

I always nod,wave or put a leg out(depending on which country I happen to be in at the time)to all motorcyclists. Whether the compliment is returned,or not,is not important to me.

We wave
 

We have loads of bikes on the road in California. Waving is very common. Doesn't matter what you are riding, bicycle, scooter, chopper, everyone seems to wave. At times it gets a bit tedious, but all-in-all, a very nice gesture.

means, "I am the last rider in this group".

A hairy biker, also known as "the idiot on the hill"????
 

I was always looked upon as being a bit different aswell due to my long hair, tatoes, clothes and all in all, hippie appearance.
The kind of guy that the rockers of the 60·s loved to go for, just because I was·nt like them. What makes me sad is that people (some) still like quick trials and for not understanding, liking , accepting that we don·t all look or express ourselves like---You/them --- totally flip, loose control/tolerance and misbehave by ejaculating insults and other stupidities in public, on public, even in a supposedly easy going and good vibes forums like the Hubb.
Hope and expect an appology from someone who, if not totally daft (and the rest of your interceptions don·t make me believe so) wishes Love and Peace for his fellow man, as any other sane person in this sometimes insane world.
Love and peace once again and sincerely hope to meet You one day (tried at the uk meet but did·nt find You) Because of this kind of experience, I always say hello to all bikers I pass by on the road, and if they don·t return the salute.... like everything else in life.... their problem. They loose out on a could be interesting friendship?
Dan:tongue_smilie:

Hi Dan ,
I do recall ,long ago and in a thread far away , including a link to a Monty Python clip on "youtube " ,it was the village idiot sketch but someone had titled it "idiot on the hill ".
It was in reference to and also to highlight the antics of a banned and now "rehabilitated" [ don't hold your breath ] member of the HUBB who had [ has] a proclivity to get his jollies by upsetting others .
A use of multiple personalities is one of his tactics .
I am indeed sorry and somewhat surprised that you should think I was referring to you .
Furthermore I am sorry to hear that the Rockers were also present in Spain ,I had always thought they were a peculiarly British phenomenon .
Sorry [again ] to have missed you at Lumb Farm , it's on my old stomping grounds ,I could have taken you to a few pubs and shown you what a real pint of Pedigree tastes like and seen what kind of a drinker you are .
However I was busy on the ranch in Canada ,like the daft bugger that I am ,shovelling "you know what ".
Best Regards,

totally non rehabilitationable....pheeeew...
 

G·Day Dodger,:thumbup1:
it comforts me the downgrade from idiot on the hill to village idiot:eek3:. !Sounds nicer, more rural in a way. Back to nature! Just an old hippies cup of tea. :clap:
The rockers with whom I had dealings of different sorts, were in Denmark where I·m from, and are the fathers and mothers of the kids I salute when riding:punk:. Most of them, as mentioned previously by others, don·t return the gesture, but thats because they do·nt know me either..... :rolleyes3: !? It would be nice to get together one day and show You what we Vikings are like when we get a few dozens of pints down:chris: . I·ve had horses and understand:9898: . Brings to my mind a friend of mine who had a man with a shovel on one cheek (bum) and a load of horse menure on the other, and when contracting his arse muscles, the little tatoo guy started shoveling the shit back to where it came from!:w00t: :lol2:
Lovely to get this little item out of the way and now that I recognize that I could be a village idiot and You recognize that You·re daft (lol):innocent: , I·m sure we will become real good friends one day! :thumbup:
Love and peace,:yes:
Dan:tongue_smilie:

I was just about to explain the footwave but Kevin has done so already above. I too have found the French "flics" quite reasonable even when I've been in the wrong. However, if anyone visits the Le Mans 24 hour races, then if you leave the area even at 8.00 am be prepared to be breathalysed; be careful if you had a bucketful the night before. The reasonableness vanishes then.

Skol
 

Dan the Viking,
"Always remember to pillage before you burn !"

Hrothgar

skaal to You
 

Why·s that --- :blink: ????
Cheers mate.

Skaal to you too !
 

It's a Viking father's advice to his son .
And a bit of a joke .

healthy desire
 

The "why·s that" was supposed to be a joke too!!!! A typical "village idiot" question:w00t: ! Get it:innocent: ? Lol.:clap:
All these Hubb inserts are starting to make me thrive for some of your whatever it·s called Englsh beer/ale. :drool:
Skaal/cheers my friend ---- I·m off to the next whiskey bar.... and don·t ask me why...:huh:
Dan:tongue_smilie:

I have noticed that the waves and nods depend on what bike you are on, where your riding and what bike the other person is on.

On my old bikes, 600 bandit, and XT660 - I used to get nods from pretty much everyone, wherever i was. Since getting a 1150gs, i have noticed that most people on sportsbikes ignore me, however i usually get a wave from other people on similar bikes.

Mike

I agree with the above post, it depends on the bike you ride mostly but as said before it is very local and it seems the closer you get to cities in the UK where people are more materialistic and trying to out do eachother, the fewer people pay compliments to fellow bikers.

I have to say that the bikers that I have had the least response from have been people riding BMW's, especially the GS's.....perhaps they all think they are Ewan McGregor or something......but I bet even he would wave back!

Thankfully there are still real bikers around who have been broken down before and have experienced riding in rubbish conditions and have travelled until they cant walk......etc, who understand what fellow bikers are going through.

Trav

I have ridden for 40 years and have seen the slow decline in comradery among bikers in Canada and the States. I was riding with some guys I know and passed a bike broken down on the highway. I stopped and my buddies eventually came back but wanted to leave the guy to fend for himself. That told me a lot about them. Selfish, dont do anything that is going to inconveniance me attitude is totally disgusting and sad.
The waving thing I do all the time regardless of what is comming.
If you dont wave you are a dam snotnose poser.
My rant is over . I only read the first few posts on this thread so I dont know what it became .
Bill

Interesting topic.

I've noticed the further south in the UK you go, the less you're acknowledged.

I always nod or tip my head at other bikes, except when riding in Europe where I'll follow their usual wave with the clutch hand. I don't flash as it can be misinterpreted and as UK traffic laws stand, if it leads to an accident, you're at fault. I'll signal with my palm flat and down with an up-down movement to warn oncoming bikers of an accident or police presence (far more common in mainland Europe) but I'll always make a point of acknowledging police motorcyclists. Goes without saying that I pull over for anyone that looks like they need help.

Also pull the clutch and wave with throttle hand to horse riders and you'll nearly always get a wave and a smile back. I also make sure that I give a thumbs up to car drivers who move over to let me pass, particularly if filtering. It's just a little bit of recognition of their good driving and observation and hopefully they'll keep doing it.

I tend not to nod or wave so much if I'm somewhere where there's loads of bikes, such as a popular meeting place, race meeting, etc, but thats just common sense. I don't usually wave at anything with L-plates unless I get a nod first, well.. maybe I'll wave at 125's if I'm having a good day but that's normal I think.

:punk:

I hate the sterotypes, but last weekend I'm afraid they fitted perfectly. I took the outfit loaded with wife, dog camping gear to York. In that load condition I'm not doing much more that staying with the faster trucks, so most other bikes passed us. The ones I noticed were:

Three BM GS's with all the toys, London plates, came past very fast, close formation, cut in front without leaving enough space, not so much as a look.

Four cruisers (the one at the back was a Sportster), doing 50 in a 70 zone stared dead ahead as though they were deliberately ignoring the fact a Triumph was passing.

Old Brit bike, maybe a Velocette, huge grin and thumbs up when passed.

12-15 sports bikes in a group; everyone stuck out a leg or waved to acknowledge Karens wave then did his/her lifesaver and pulled in. They were "making progress" but it looked so unstressed and safe looking even plod was going to give them a few MPH grace.

On Saturday night I did a grocery run and stopped to say hello to a bloke on a CBR with a flat. I had tyre kit, but he prefered to let the AA take him home. I was only the second bike to stop on a road with sportsbikes going past every few minutes.

Something is changing in the bike culture and the only thing I can relate it to is that leisure riders on new bikes must now outnumber the full timers keeping old clunkers going. As guys who've never been late for work due to a bike puncture show other guys how it's done we've lost something, they can't help and/or still think like car drivers. Too many idiots out there more worried about their image and how shiney their toys are too.

Andy

I always find that less bike, by percentage, ride well and courtious in the summer than the winter. This fits with observations of others in that I guess winter riders are 'real' bikers, whilst the great majority of the summer guys are fair weather riders.

Always thank drivers for doing the right thing, and alway wave/nod to other bikes on the road. I've never passed a lone bike on the side of the road without slowing and giving the thumbs up/down - now ant then you get a thumbs down, so I stop to see if I can help.

I think the guys who have travelled are much more courtious that those that haven't, lets face it if your attitude stinks you're not going to get far outside of the UK are you ?

Mmmm
 

i always stop to see if i can help a lone biker at the side of the road and i always nod to other bikers. last week i was stuck at the side of a roundabout and about 40 bikes passed whilst i waited for the breakdown company. NOT ONE STOPPED! lots just turned their heads in the other direction! sad shiny summer bikers! this wont stop me from stopping in the future but i was quite annoyed at thinking were supposed to be a team!

And yet bikes are allways a good ice breaker , conversations with others at petrol stations , roadside stops etc , standing chatting to a stranger for at least 10 mins talking '' bike'' or trips .
i ride road bikes / dual purpose bike , there is a difference in who acknowledges and who doesn,t , but only here not abroad .

i think it's mainly the steroetypes bikers have been given by the media (and sometimes each other) and it's being enforced on the younger generations. Example; cruiser riders are now deeply associated with gang cultures and violence, sports bike riders are known for speeding, using roads as racecourses and doing idiotic stunts on the roads, while the classic bike riders are seen as the slow people who brake down alot and get in the way and harley riders are seen as fair weather poofs.....
I was brought up to believe all that, from teachers to my dad (harley rider), to people tutting in the street and muttering things seeing bikers go past. Plus with all the media attention on a few pricks from some well known biker gangs, most younger riders tend to just keep their heads down and not even look up for fear of upsetting anyone (experience). Btw does anyone agree that the blokey who went on tv and spoke about the ha guys murder with the infamous quote " well these things happen, they shouldn't but they do" is a proper dickhead? Face it with people like that as the mouth piece of bikers, we're ****ed!
But back to the real point i then met a really nice cutdown wearing old school leather clad sweetheart and he taught me a helluva lot, he always stopped for bikers, even scooter riders, never had a bad word to say about anyone, and he waved at everyone including scooter riders, how many of you include those as bikers. Cos they're gonna be on the big machines soon enough and if everyone ignores them, they're gonna be abit like "why the **** should i wave back at you when y'all ignored me for years?" maybe that has summit to do with it????? And cruiser riders bitching at sportsbike riders for being crazy, sportsbike riders seeing everyone as beneath them (read the first page of this thread, theres one of those there) and everyone else pottering along trying to be friendly and being seen as a daft old hippy biker. My guess is the only way to get back the friendly waves and nods is to go back to the bike meets, have a chat with anyone and everyone regardless of what they ride (there's abit too much of a clique culture going on, not pointing fingers sporties) and carry on waving away until it catches on again and spreads like swine flu, and always include the scooter riders. Dear god, imagine for a second if every biker had a chat with the teens on their scooters and 125's, passing on valuable knowledge and the deep love and respect for machines you all have and the mentality of biking culture. Just imagine how much safer the roads could be and how improved the public view of us?????

That's not really something you want to be shouting about, especially if you're going to put that much info in your profile.

How do you work that one out? :confused1:

Most of those are 16yo's with Chinese scooters bought on eBay for £500. Very few have any intention of sticking with 2 wheels once they're 17. As soon as they're old enough and have the cash to buy a Saxo/Clio/Corsa, they'll be finished with bikes until the mid-life crisis comes around. Look at the new registration figures for 50cc scoots. There's not enough bikes above 125cc on the new and used market to go round if all those kids decided to take it further than CBT.

Old Vespa and Lambretta owners are a different story. Speak to the real "old school" scooter riders who are involved in their club scene. You'll find many have got a real chip on their shoulder about bikers and are still living in the days of mods and rockers, where as most bikers couldn't care less. I will nod to them and it's their problem if they don't wave back.

That's obviously aimed at the likes of me. You're tarring everyone with the same brush. What was that about being cliquey?

Actually, some (but certainly not all) of the most cliquey riders I've found, that won't wave or stop for anyone unless they're riding the same are Pan-European riders. That's their problem though.
I know of a Pan rider who went to talk to people on a Pan riders club stand at a show recently and his face mustn't have fitted because they just didn't want to know him.
I tried to start a conversation with a UK reg Pan rider and pillion on the Grossglockner last year. We were stopped while the road was cleared of falling rocks so nothing else to do. What a pair of miserable ****s.
A******* off the bike = A******* on the bike.

Still, I'll nod to them and it's their problem if they don't.

equations
 

maybe if you chatted to them then they would stick with bikes too?? I have both. It's not aimed at you, rather the groups that hang out at my local biker cafe and no-one mixes anymore. Think it's less the wavings an issue as the herd mentality of some people. I really respect guys like you, the ones who wave at everyone even if they're being a dick and trying to chat to all bikers, need more!!!

I'll be down in your neck of the woods (Portsmouth) next week, (Tuesday 25th, catching the ferry to Santander) I'll be on a Azure blue Triumph Trophy and nodding and waving at all bikes! :thumbup1:
My 2 pence worth, BMW GS riders are some of the worst for not acknowledging you. :rofl:



Trophymick

Highly trained engineers in Munich have spent the last 90 years looking at handlebars. They have concluded that it is better to have at least two grips as this seems to be the average number of hands the vehicle operators have. (They don't talk about the indicator design boys, who have three thumbs due to coming from a very isolated village in the mountains where the winters are long and TV reception poor) . The BMW users manual therefore clearly states that the operator must have a hand on each grip and that failure to do so invalidates the warranty. :innocent:

I actually read the manual that came with the Bonneville the other week (only had it six years!). It seems that adjusting the chain while the bike is running isn't a good idea. I mean, who'd have guessed. :offtopic:

Copied from another group:

YouTube - Bikers and Harleys

You can IMHO substitute just about any single make club for "Harley". Gave a smile which is unusual for US style stand up.

Andy

hee hee i frickin love you
xxxxxxxxxxxx

I would just like to point out that as I ride a GS everyday and wave at anyone and everyone your theory is not completly accurate!

My warranty was up ages ago so this no longer applies.
I do however love mountains but sadly don't have three thumbs as this could be a good way of getting free beer! :thumbup1:

If your ever passing this way be sure to stop by and I will get my bike out, sit on it and wave to you, just to keep you happy! :rofl:

Maybe. I don't have a problem talking with CBT kids on bikes. Some have a genuine interest and you can tell if they'll take it further. It's the attitude of the chavs on uninsured wrecks that gets me. I'm sure everyone here has had a tracksuit wearing yoof on a 2 wheeled hairdryer trying to cut them up in traffic or baiting them into a "race".

I had an interesting discussion a while ago with a non-biker, who said riding bikes are just about making a statement to others. Any reason other than posing was totally lost on him. The reason I'm saying that is because, like it or not, the general public still see motorcycles as having an attitude and almost anti-social edge or stigma attached to them. In my opinion, that's what attracts kids to them. Look at the likes of Harley who are almost trying to sell a lifestyle, rather than a bike and the marketing which is aimed specifically at the financially well off, mid-life crisis, new rider.

On the subject of bike meets, I don't really bother with them now unless they're at the end of a really good ride out.

On a lighter note, I got talking to an old boy with a very tidy Yamaha Diversion/Watsonian Squire outfit this afternoon. He must have been in his late 70's/early 80's but we just got chatting about old bikes. Started showing me photo's of the Ariel Square Four outfit that he had in the 60's and how he'd passed his test on his boss's Vincent Black Shadow!!!.

I'm 32 and I ride sportsbikes mostly, despite them being overkill for our roads. However, I can't think of any other hobby, pastime, activity, call whatever you will, that would bring me and this guy into a conversation.
Keep waving :punk:

I'm just invisible
 

I went out to play on Saturday and wondered if I had become invisible. Everything was fine for about three miles, weather nice, and improving, roads clear and the bike (a Pan as it goes Craig) was warming up nicely. I noticed a bike (Drag Star I think) pulled over and stopped to ask if he needed any help. Much to my relief he was just stretching his legs and didn't need help (I'm more than slightly cack handed, so I would probably have been little use to him, but I always stop). After wishing each other good days I carried on, but I must have become invisible

It was a nice day and the roads were full of bikes but none of them returned my wave; the classic riders, the sportsbike scratchers, the cruisers, the tourers (adventure and traditional), even another Pan ignored me. On the outward leg of my ride just two riders waved back; an old boy on an old and well used (ie not highly polished classic) Triumph, and a youngster (I'm guessing) on a 125 under L plates. The homeward leg was much better; visibility must have been restored over coffee & cake (you don't think I'm fading away and they couldn't see me until I'd eaten?).

Frankly however, I don't care if you ignore me - I'll continue waving as long as I'm even occasionally acknowledged, and I'll continue stopping even if I'm little help. I'm too old and too lazy to change the habits of a lifetime.

Time, weather and rant #2
 

The day and weather was your issue there. Get yourself into the peaks or dales on say New Years day and the proportion of guy's who'll wave back will be over 90%. If it's a nice day on Monday and you are on the approach roads to the Cat and Fiddle, it'll be closer to 10%.

As for stopping to help and mechanical ability, don't worry about it. A working mobile phone, a ride a few miles home to collect tools/spares, carrying a flat to somewhere with a working compressor, the loan of the right sized spanner, loan of a gallon of petrol; I consider myself half competant at fixing bikes but that's the usual help you end up giving if someone is stuck rather than stripping their gearbox (unless they are Ural owners).

Rant #2 :offtopic:; a question to the BMW and Pan owners, what's all this playing a coppers thing (not that the vast majority do it)? There I was in the Repmobile on the M-62, it's ****ing down and I'm early, so it's lane 1 and 56 mph. In the mirrors I see a bike lit up like a Christmas tree, the rider in white helmet and lime green suit with badges on the fairing/tank/panniers. He's doing about 75 tailgating a car in lane 3. Until you got close enough to see the bike was a GS with a roll sack on the seat he looked like the Lego Plod. The green suit and lights I get, they make you show up, that's why the police wear them. The badges and checker style reflectors deliberatley meant to make him look like a copper had two effects in my mind. First of all, that car he was pushing wasn't going to go over 75 mph if it took him until the motorway ran out in Hull to get past the car in lane 2 and pull over. Fake plod matey wasn't going anywhere fast. Second, if the real coppers do him for speeding, they are going to throw in impersonating too, or at least ask about the mods and his insurance. That's big **** if they go to town. I've seen Pan's decked out this way too.

Anyone follow the logic of doing this? Some sort of buzz from having the cagers stare at you? I had a white F650. The odd car would get out of the way faster than on my red bike, but as I was wearing a red lid and black suit, if they thought I was official they needed their eyes testing. Really can't see the point in doing the whole fake thing.

Andy