How rigorous are you with chain maintenance?
 

What's your regime - please let us know what your triggers for maintaining your chain is and what it consists of.

----
I swear to Ipone chain cleaner and transmission oil for lubing. On the road, unless on a very long trip, I resort to diesel, a tooth brush and a rag (don't carry lube except for on very long trips).

I'm rigorous with my chain maintenance. I try to clean after every "longish" ride or 500 kms, whichever comes first. If I've been riding in filth, I may do it as soon as it is convenient to do so. Also, before and after garaging the bike for a long time.

Relaxed. I mostly ride on tarmac, I use high-quality sealed chains, I watch the rollers and lube the chain when they start getting shiny (rather than dull) and about every 1000km. I have a Kettenmax chain cleaning thingie but mostly just use it when I see that the chain is filthy; I'll also clean it off with a power-washer when I wash my bike.

On a long trip, when I do 500-700km per day, yeah I will lube the chain afterwards. And if it's been raining.

I'm an 'as and when' chain owner. I have a diy chain oiler (or did before I broke it recently) on one of my main bikes and every time I stop for fuel I'll glance at the chain. If it looks dry I'll set the oiler to deliver some over the next 20-30 miles. If it looks oily I'll leave it alone. Unless it's wet in which case it'll get more oil more often.

No chain cleaning though; I bought into that many years ago when you had to take the chain off, scrub it in paraffin and boil it in some sort of black grease. No longer I'm afraid. I'd rather replace the chain than go through that again. If dirt wears it out then so be it.

My little 125 Suzuki has an enclosed chain. I put some oil on it 10,000 miles ago when I changed the front sprocket. It's still oily and hasn't worn. Not bad for something not much bigger than a bicycle chain with no O or Z or any other sort of rings. Just goes to show what the bigger bikes are missing (protection in case you're wondering)

I add a little oil with my chain oiler at the beginning and end of each ride. Thats it.

Take the advice your mother gave when you were nine: "If you keep playing with it, it'll drop off".

Andy

Anyway , Andy, back to chains !!
I oil my chain through a syringe and tube that is fixed near front sprocket and
i use old engine oil and i never let my chain run dry !
33,000 miles on a crf1000 and the chain was as good as new !
K:scooter:

Old vs new
 

In the old days:

I removed my chain and boiled it grease.

Nowadays:

The important lubricatation is inside O-rings. No need to mess with that.
Clean some time and and some oil. Just for the other surface.
But very seldom.....
No need


BTW; Drive a Moto Guzzi and you do no even have to think about such things

Cleaning chain on your Vespa?

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

Riding bikes continuously for 43 years now and since automatic chain oilers became available I have used nothing else since.

Curious about chain oilers - know nothing about it. Doesn't it create a mess? Does it lube effectively and evenly? How about cleaning?

To me, cleaning is as important as lubing. And, using stuff that doesn't penetrate behind the rings or deteriorate them. It is also not only about the chain, but the sprocket as well.

IMHO you don't want it if you ride in dusty conditions oil + dust = grinding compound. It works very good if you mostly deal with the rain.

I try to do diesel cleaning/maintenance after wet or dirt ride, it ends up being something 500-2000mi give or take.

Personally I can't wait when BMW/Regina Endurance M diamond chain will be available in 520 size.

When you have a metal to metal contact , you need some sort of lubrication.
Oil on your chain will do 3 things !
1.. it makes the bike run so much quieter
2 ..it adds many more miles to the life of your chain
3.. also it will give you more POWER as the friction is less

try riding say a 250 with a dry chain.... then oil it .... you will be amazed !:clap:

They are lash-ups. Everything from someones high school electronics project through to hospital syringes and fish tank hose. The environment at the chain sprocket interface will make a surface protection/paint/adhesives engineer sit sucking his thumb rocking back and forth in the fetal position, it is no place for 3M pads and cable ties. If you are lucky they stay put and apply something like a suitable amount of suitable lube. If you are unlucky they get cut to pieces when they lose out in fight with the chain, drench the tyre in a unsuitable lube or do nothing and give you a false sense of security.

I will not have another. Scotoil was the wrong lube, too sticky, never going to do anything more than stick dirt on and make grinding paste. Engine oil rotted the seals on one of the fish tank hose and syringe contraptions and a bit of WD-40 can straw bosticked in was never going to control the flow. Both cost more in time and cash than I'd have spent with a rag and oil can or stripping the back end of a Bavarian Behemoth to get at the splines.

The correct current solution is the factory made, bellows design chain case MZ used. Industrial chain lasted 100k+ miles. I hope the BMW teflon/diamond works. Until then is it really so hard to wipe it with an oily rag?*

*I don't use spray cans, sticky is bad. Tot up how much you'd pay wurth and you may as well just buy a new chain when they wear out. These things wre consumables, so consume them.

Before buying an oiler do a lifetime cost analysis. I'd have to successfully transfer the same oiler from bike to bike three times.

Andy

If you want more power try changing your o ring chain for one with no rings. That'll do far more than waving an oily rag at your existing one. It won't last but then no one said power was cheap. I changed no ring chain for a 'modern' one on an old 500cc Kawasaki many years ago and was amazed at how much slower it was. Slower to the point that I went back to the original chain. Bike engine power has had to increase just to compensate for whats lost in turning all those O rings.

In a sensible world we'd all ride bikes that had chains protected from the elements but for as far back as my biking memory goes (and probably much further than that) exposed chain = sporty and enclosed chain = boring old plodder. That's because sports bikes used to lead the market and they took their styling cues from the race track. So we drag our worn out chains across the savanna somewhere because Rossi et al chuck their free chains away every 50 miles and everyone wants to copy that. And we end up with some kind of arms race to try and make a 50 mile chain last 20,000+ without visibly protecting it. It's kind of ironic really that a lot of modern bikes have exposed chains hidden behind stuff like exhausts / suspension / luggage etc to the point where you can't see them anyway, but rain and grit can still get in to wear them out. It really is the worst of all worlds.

How much power does using an O-ring cost you over a regular unsealed chain..? I Googled this, and although I couldn't find much in the way of cold hard numbers, I did find someone who dynoed a Honda TRX 450R quad both with regular and O-ring. The loss in HP (out of about 40 total) was around 2. A 5% loss in horsepower, but you gain less maintenance and hassle. That seems like a very reasonable tradeoff to me.

I think it depends on use. My 160kg, 35HP (more like 25 now) 1973 CL350 is way more fun than my 200 kg, 46 HP CB500X. The comparable 20HP, bunged up with emissions controls, lardy with ABS pump modern 350 wouldn't compare, but an extra 1 HP is going the right way and is cheaper than say a 1% weight reduction by dumping an overkill silencer. I mostly ride them once or twice a week so whipping off a chain to be boiled in blubber once a month would be no great hardship.

I might think differently if I had the chance to go up the desert for a month like I used to.

Totally agree with the race fashion comments. Wait until someone sees the clip link on the CB500X's chain that everyone knows will snap 7000 miles ago and take off my leg aand at least three ********s :rofl:

Andy

Well you can't argue with the dyno. I've read somewhere though that the seat of the pants dyno can't feel much less than an 8% change so if I could tell the difference it was probably more than that. No proof or numbers though; it was just one of those things I noticed to the point where I did something about it. Isn't the rough rule of thumb that engines lose about 20% of their power between the crank and the road. I wonder how much of that vanishes in the chain - rings or no rings.

I agree if you have to have a chain, all other things being equal one that doesn't wear out would be preferable. I still remember from years ago getting back home after a 4000 mile dry trip with the brand new no-ring OE chain virtually dragging on the ground. You'd never be able to sell a bike with a chain like that now.

I think we all agree the need to oil a chain , it depends how many miles you cover in a year and the conditions .
:scooter:

I used to be better about cleaning my chain.

Now, I don't bother to clean it anymore, other then it getting pressure washed once in a while at the car wash.

My new philosophy is to replace the chain every 20,000 miles.

I've broken a high mileage chain in the middle of nowhere and that risk is not worth it.

I've now given up on any notion of preserving the things.

I keep a bike 3 years tops. In that time most OE chains rust because of the action of salt they use on our roads in winter and fact the chains are designed for Thailand. When I go to sell, the dealers don't care so long as the chain is correctly adjusted and oily looking.

So, I wipe it with an oily rag once a week, no special sprays. I adjust it when I change tyres (no laser monkey tools). When I decide to sell I put the OE tyres back (Honda sold me this ****, they can sell them to the next bloke too!) and give the surface rusted chain a really good clean and oil while it's more accessible.

If I was riding hundreds of thousands of miles on one bike it may make sense to invest more. The dealers usually try it on with "that's a lot of miles for a three year old bike" and on e-bay the closest I could find to my three year old CB500f was eight. This suggests to me the majority of riders are wasting their money on oilers, teflon/Barnsley Virgin/unicorn oil sprays etc.

Andy

Sealed chains don't need a lot of external lube. It's not like ye olde days when you slathered it on the outside hoping some would maybe make its way into the rollers. If I'm giving the bike its annual clean I might wipe the side plates, otherwise I'll give it a squirt of spray lube every 500 miles or so to stop it rusting. Seems to do the trick, my 790 chain is still perfectly adjusted after 12,000 miles on and off road.

The power lost in an O ring chain is going to be relatively constant regardless of engine capacity, so 2bhp in 95 is a great deal less significant. It also ignores the friction losses in a worn-out unsealed chain running without lubricant.

I used to run unsealed chains on my son's MX bike, because you need to give those a good wash every meeting and you'd ruin an o-ring one. They lasted well, and unlike some I'd only need one new chain per year. But I made the mistake of running one on my green lane bike and it destroyed the chain in just one ride, because it lost all the grease and was running dry. So now I run sealed chains.

The one I use has an adjustable flow so you can decide how much lube it needs in any given situation.. Very effective, no mess, and I use SAE 90 gear oil in it so no issues with damaging solvents. It also only dispenses oil once the revs rise above idle speed so no puddles of oil if stationary whilst idling. As for dusty conditions, I turn the flow up and this prevents the grinding problem.

Seems to me that to the extent that turning the flow rate up helps with "the grinding problem," it would necessarily be because enough oil is being dumped on the chain so that it washes off the dust....onto the ground, mixed with a lot of oil. I'm not sure that's ideal, exactly.

I put my bike(s) up on center stand, idle in gear, and spritz liberally with WD40 to wash off dust, grit, and grime. Then I wipe with a rag while still running, risking serious injury or dismemberment. Then I forget about it for another 300, 500, or 800 miles before doing the same again. Mostly this happens in my garage, where a couple of rags captures the wash; away from home, I try to find someplace less rather than more obnoxious to pollute.

I've given up lubing O or X ring chains--the WD40 is for cleaning, not lubrication. They last a good long time, then I replace them...using clip-links. I don't replace front or rear sprockets at the same time unless visibly worn, and these, too, seem to last a long time. Call me crazy.

I do much the same - except with the motor _not_ running and the bike in neutral. I've seen pics of a guy who managed to chop off three of his fingers when his hand got in the moving chain.

Yup, you're right and I'm well aware of the risk. There are dangerous things I won't do, dangerous things I do cautiously, and even dangerous things I do without any awareness at all. Cleaning a chain this way is undeniably risky, although exactly where it falls on the risk continuum is up for debate. A safer approach is to leave the bike shut off in neutral, tie the brakes and/or stand, and rotate the rear wheel manually while using the rag for cleaning. It's possible that my previous career in the building trades has distorted my sense of what's tolerable--or where to add cautionary notes.

Mark

My original chain on my V-Strom lasted 35,000 miles. I have an old bottle of gear oil that I found at a garage sale for $1 and whenever I remember I squirt a little of the oil on whatever part of the chain is easily accessible without moving the bike.

Even the manufacturers of chain lube will admit that it does nothing to prevent the life of an O/X-ring chain. But it does prevent corrosion. The grease for a chain is applied when it's manufactured and intended to last for it's entire lifetime. It's held inside the rollers by those sealing rings. Although it could be argued that chain oil keeps those sealing rings lubricated which may prevent them drying out and degrading.

This is why you shouldn't use harsh solvents on a O-ring/Xring chain. And especially not penetrating oils like WD40 which will get behind through seals and clear out the grease.

However, it does prolong the life of your sprockets.

IMO, the absolute most important aspect of chain maintenance to pre-long life is setting the correct tension.

If your chain is sloppy, it's that YANK when the excess tension is taken up is which stretches your chain and wears out your sprockets.

I've worked this out in the last twenty years of working as a Motorcycle Tech. 99/100 bikes I have serviced in main dealers needed their chains tightening.

The biggest mistakes people make by doing it themselves is:

A) Doing it on a centre stand.... WRONG... (Side stand is where a manufacturer sets the tension)

B) Not finding the tight spot first

C) Over lubricating the chain so it acts like glue for grit and other abrasives.

D) Using harsh solvents which penetrate the sealing rings and wash the grease out.

E) Buying cheap chains. It's seldom cost effective.

So are most people running their chains too loose then Ted? When you get the bikes in have they been set too loose or is it just normal between services wear that slackens them off? I'd imagine that most main dealer servicing is on new / relatively new pampered bikes with relatively good condition chains. The starship mileage + penny pinching budget bikes running trash bin secondhand Chinese chains won't see a dealer workshop between birth and death.

I don't know the answer to the HP loss question, but I find it impossible to believe that a manufacturer would fit any consumerable that would make their bike slower. Especially in the cut throat race for power stats. They spend millions eeking another 5hp out of their bikes. And they give zero shots how long your chain lasts.

Yes lube keeps O-rings lubricated and prolongs their life and also reduces amount of moisture going through in rain/at water x-ings and with temperature change. It could be argued that lube can also revitalize dried out grease on old chain and it reduces roller wear in non-dusty conditions.

This is a good point, a few times I've bought an old bike that's been sat and as a result has a bunch of sticky links.

With a good clean and re-lube (then a bit of riding and a repeated clean and lube) some of them have been useable for a good while after, the most recent lasted about 5000km after being in a condition many would describe as completely f'd.

Interesting read Ted, especially the part about a sloppy chain. I always thought the worst I could do to a chain was adjusting too tight as that for sure would ruin the X/O ring seals and ruin the links as well. Therefore I have had a tendency to keep the chains on my bikes a bit sloppy rather than a bit too tight. But now I might have to rethink that….?

Another thing that always seem to occure with chains on my bikes is that the chain can dead tight on the upper level and super sloppy on under level. And if I roll the bike 50-100 centimeter forward or backwards it can be fine or even opposite… another reason I usually keep my chains at the more sloppier end of the scale. Is there a logic explanation to this and maybe something to do about this?

The more worrying thing about having a chain too tight is that it can mess up the bearing or seal for the output shaft (or in a worst-case scenario, the shaft itself), which is a problem in the middle of nowhere, and can be expensive.

Chains don't stretch uniformly, thats why the chain appears "tight" on one "side" compared to another - hence Touring Ted's point "B" on his list ;)

^^^
Add excessive wear to rollers/sprockets and I had seen chain snap, wrap around front sprocket and punch a hole in crankcase.. I would rather err on loose side.

So Im not wrong then - about that I rather keep the chain on loose side instead of on the tight side?

You want it at the correct tension. Not sloppy and not tight.

When you set the tension of a chain on the side stand it's meant to replicate the tension of the chain when you're sitting on it. Or close enough. Depending on suspension settings.

If you hold a bike up-right (unloaded) the chain will be tighter than it would be on the side stand.

If you sit on your bike (feet on pegs) and ask someone to hold you level (or lean against a wall), you want your chain should be taught with just slight free-play. If you can slightly move the chain with your finger then it's not going to hurt your bearings or seals. If it's 'Drum tight' then you need to slacken it off a touch.

Running your chain to loose is the of course the safest option if you're unsure about tensions and worried about running it too tight. But it will wear out quickly as it's always being yanked tight when you accelerate and it's also flapping about, which causes premature wear too.

All good points, the only other thing I can add is if you have a high mileage bike then a loose chain can also cause shifting problems where the bike doesn't want to change gear or finds extra false neutrals, basically being weird.

We switched the Tango from the original chinese unsealed chain to a DID VX "X-ring" chain, that bike has a whopping 9hp and there hasn't been any noticeable drop in performance ... however the bike feels much much smoother to ride!

See my detailed article here on How to adjust your Chain I wrote for Cycle Canada magazine in the '80's.
You can pretty much ignore the alignment part, modern bikes are assembled much more accurately than in the "good" old days. Also ignore the chain lube discussion - it's for PRE-O-ring chains!

It should answer all your questions.

If you ride a small engine bike it is a must to keep your chain well lubricated
as a dry chain will reduce your engine power ........... just try it with some old engine oil and you will feel how much better it runs ! ( dont oil your chain in sandy conditions ) I allways take 2 small bottles with me ( best is hotel shampoo bottles ). never replaced a chain in my life !
:scooter:

Hello all,
have read this week Regina chains have just brought out a maintenance free chain,you will still need correct adjustment but no lube,
sounds to good to be true, i live in hope!

That's been out for a while, and has it's pro's and con's.

See this thread for a major discussion on it when it came out.
We live in hope, right?

thanks for that will have a look.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-trea...ut-to-the-test

It's gimmick

Yeah, probably, or at least in the way it was originally presented which was fit and forget.

Chains have moved on though. Even rubbish ones are better than they used to be. Back in Aug / Sept we rode a couple of circa 1970 vintage Yamahas down to Morocco and back. Back in 1970 we did the same route on the same model bike. The OE chain back then was virtually dragging on the ground when we got back. This time with two ordinary chains (so no O rings) they were only about half worn at the end, even though we had a couple of days of rain which we didn't first time round.

On modern sealed chains O-rings are the primary point of failure and what Regina did by reinforcing non-sealed friction parts while doing nothing to sealed pivots didn't change the outcome. Perhaps result would have been different if they also used diamond coating in sealed pivots and/or better longer lasting O-rings.

It did make me wonder how much of this is down to price, and whether the chains we get are as good as the price point will allow. Not a lot of good producing an everlasting chain if it costs £1000 a time. Maybe it’ll work ok on conveyer belts and the like. Not too many of those sprayed with grit and salt water as they work.

I fail to see how any metal surface can survive without lubrication ........
My last bike Africa twin did over 33.000 miles in two years and the chain had only been adjusted twice ! and still in very good condition . My current bike has 16 ,000 and the same applies ..................... secret ,,,,,,,OIL YOUR CHAIN !:oops2:

I'm not a fan of chain maintenance. I do the chain maintenance when I think about it...not very often!

But my '18 VStrom 1000 has 47000km and so does the chain and sprockets. OEM quality !
90% tarmac, 10% offroad.

EK chain? or DID?

I use DIY oiler and the main advantage is saving me the hassle of lubing the chain after a day of riding. Additionally, I can use engine oil, which I normally carry to top off oil that burnt, so I don't have to carry another lubricant.


I usually turn off auto lubrication before going on a dirt road.

I tried Tuturo chain oiler on a couple of bikes. Motion actuated and adjustable flow are good ideas but I found the nozzle got knocked off in the dirt.

Now I use a small bottle of Muc-Off C3 dry lube every other day or on the road.
Pre-clean dirt with a toothbrush.
Dab onto the brush and apply around the chain.
C3 seems to attract less grit, though it is for pushbikes.
I used to use engine oil, better than nothing, but for a ride of a few weeks a bottle of proper lube will last.

https://adventure-motorcycling.com/w...3/lineo-1.jpeg

I'm surprised it was that much, though bear in mind the lost power to o-ring friction will be fairly constant irrespective of engine power/size. On a bigger bike it won't be noticeable, and in any case more recent X-ring chains supposedly reduce friction even further. To me the case for longevity of a sealed chain is a no-brainer, and in this case external lube doesn't do much beyond stopping it rusting and making sure the seals have some form of lubricant on both sides.

I use EP80/90 Gear oil.
Lift the rear wheel off the ground, engage first gear and with the engine running use the clutch so the wheel turns slowly. Crouching down next to the chain, using my left hand to control the clutch and my right hand holding the oil bottle, I drizzle gear oil onto the inside links whilst the chain is slowly rotating.

Continue to let the engine run so the oil spreads onto and under the rollers.
Ideally leave for a few hours, or after a short ride, raise the rear wheel off the ground again and rag off any excess oil from the side plates and top of the chain. If riding off road or in dusty/sandy conditions I rag off all traces of oil from the rollers. By now a small amount of oil will have penetrated behind the sealing rings inside the bushes and most of the oil on the outside and rollers will have been removed so stopping dust sticking.

I also believe it's a good idea to oil immediately after a ride when the chain has some heat in it. This will enable the oil to thin out and penetrate better.

Motion Pro make an excellent and cheap chain alignment tool. Use it once then with any chain adjustments make equal turns on both adjusters keeping perfect alignment.

If I store a bike for any time, especially in the damp UK winter, I lube as above and rag on a coating of ACF50 then spray the whole chain, especially the side plates with chain wax.

It sounds time consuming but I probably spend no more than ten minutes a week lubing.
The only time I clean a chain is after a trail/enduro ride where it's caked in mud/dust and then I will only use a hose and water. Then dry off and spray wd40/gt85 onto a rag and wipe. Leave overnight to dry then lube.

Obviously all the above is in ideal conditions, i.e. at home. When travelling I carry a small bottle of gear oil and my trusty trail stand. :D

No automatic chain Oiler button to press
Always with a chain driven bike.

Colour me stupid but I don't understand what you're trying to say here?

Hi Chris,
How do you like your rally ?
I have done about 12,000 miles on my rally and its great !
Cars let you out at junctions !
OIL ........... I never wash or clean any chain .but use loads of old engine oil
on them .I carry 2 small shampoo plastic bottles you get in hotels and my chain get a good squirt whenever i stop !

I've only been riding again for the past 5-6 years. I took a 30+ year break during which things reall changed, like a single shock in the rear?? How can that work? So when I came back I had to try everything, the latest and greatest that's how I roll. I learned a lot from all that spray this and that stuff.

Last year I rode around 25k miles and my chain regime was simple. When I got to camp and done for the day I would do a quick walk around the bike just checking things out. At that time I apply a light drizzle of gear oil I carry in an old squeeze Motol chain oil bottle. Done! 25k and never had to adjust the chain.

And when I need more, stop at a sevice station and they'll be glad to give you 8-10 oz of the stuff.