If you assume that all people with guns have evil intent ,then your statement has some validity .

Lots of hatred out there on the internet. Fortunately Americans don't find that on the road.

-----Many things were being discussed , it's confusing ,but the antipathy toward gunowners was nevertheless evident .--------

I don't advocate carrying those under the pretext of protection either, to be honest. I did travel with a buck knife. It was stuffed in a pannier, that needed the top box off to open it.... I carried it in case we had problems in the middle of no-where and had to either dig with it, or cut wood etc. The most I used it for, unsurpisingly, was making a damn fine sandwich in the Patagonian steppe on a couple of occasions. I took it under the advice of a friend, ex-royal marine, who has done more survival courses than I can shake a stick at. Sounded like sound advice: he never mentioned using it to gut a local....


Personally, I did not feel anymore anti american sentiment in this thread than there was anti-european. Calling someone a feminist or a castrati because they disapprove of guns is just as bad, IMHO... History is all very well and good, but does a country's history preclude all future changes to its culture? How does a country mature if it never takes a step back to look at its self objectively, and I mean that in a general sense and not purely one country in mind.

Same stands: not really related to individual gun ownership: these were militia organisations not private citizens in the common sense. If any thing it was illegal gun ownership.

Look, at the end of the day I'm not speaking for anyone else, but the way I see it there was antipathy, for the most part, to some flippant remarks about blowing someone away.

Guns are designed soley to kill people and, for that reason alone, I'm not a great fan of them, and I don't think that having one in my house would do anything for my quality of life.
Sporting purposes: great fun and I'd love to have a go. Cardboard for me not flesh and bone...
Whether people carry a gun at home or abroad, I sincerely hope they never have reason to consider using it...

Sorry,

I have only skimmed this thread so might be saying something that someone else has said.

I wouldn't carry a gun while travelling. I do own a couple (sporting & vermin control) and know how to use one, so am not an "anti".

My defence would have to be along the lines of "look at me, I'm a scruffy, lone traveller, outwardly friendly and not looking for trouble. I am un-armed and therefore no threat to you."

If we look at the way dogs sort things (strange, I know but bear with me)

Dog sees other dog;

Situation one
Both approach with tails wagging, sniff each other's butts, piss on a tree and go their separate ways.

Situation two
One tail wagging, the other "hackle-up" Wagging dog bows down accepts that other dog is dominant, allows dominant dog to sniff first, sniff each other's butts, piss on a tree and go separate ways.

Situation three
Both "hackle-up", walk round each other for a while. Now either one dog needs to back down pretty quick or there is going to be trouble. One dog growls, other dog growls bloody great fight kicks off. This won't stop until dominance is decided by one dog ripping the hell out of the other. Normally they would both get pretty ripped up.

Where was I going with this ? oh, yeah. I think your best bet in a confrontation is to try to difuse the situation. If you are not seen as threat, there should never be a problem.

If you pull out a gun, you better be ready to use it bloody quick and accept the consequences, not just for you but all that travel after you.

I do however carry a couple of knives but would not pretend to be able to defind myself with one. One is an ancient old diver's knive that I use for chopping, hacking and hammering the other is small fixed blade skinner which is my food prep, rope cutting, whittling knife. Oh and I have a gerber multi-tool which would be no defence at all because it always takes me five minutes to find the blade.

Last time I sniffed someone's butt, I got a slap (and that was just from my girlfriend!)! And then another from the sniffee....

...sorry, is this a bad example?

I got in trouble last time I licked my balls in public :nono:

Maybe I shouldn't have used a canine analogy :oops2:

I agree with some parts of the leave the gun at home argument. Carrying in most places is against the law and if you are caught you will suffer the sometimes dire consequences. Riding for the pleasure of riding and avoiding those places where robberies or muggings take place should obivate the necessity of carrying in the first place. That being said, the minute I get back into the states and leave the airport, I am armed. My sons meet me with my S&W and a .380 backup. And yes, I have used them to protect myself. No, I was not in a dangerous area but had left the theater late and was almost across the parking lot when I was accosted by a group of young men who decided I should pay for the privilege of parking. I offered the Smith instead and they decided I had already pay for the right to park. In 1979, a burglar who didn't think I might work a night shift broke into my home. He was buried the next week. I have a carry permit issued by the state and for some idiot to proclaim low self-esteem for those who carry a firearm is only indicative of his or her life separate from the reality of some areas.

If I could do that, I'd never leave home!

Low self esteem is the ONLY reason anyone has to carry a gun - but low self esteem also won't allow you to admit it.

The problem is with the military obsessed culture in the US ("the rest of the world wants to take everything off us"syndrome). I'd like to know just how many of the individuals in this thread, who are advocating carrying a gun, have worked in the defence or police services. I'm betting it's close to 100%.

Garry from Oz.

As this thread will not die I will get in to. :offtopic:

The USA dos not have a military obsessed culture. Most people in the USA go about there lifes with little thought about the military even with the war. The USA dose not post military at its borders the USA dose not have military check points on its roads (last time we did was WW2 and the Mexican war). Thats a big brush your painting over 300 milion people with a bit unfair you think. When you went to USA did you see that? Not that you will run in to people that are a bit off in the USA but I have found them every where I have been. McDonalds has traind pore people than than the all the military or poilice (kills more people to)

As far as I have seen only one person has said to take a hand gun with you. Looking at all his posting I dont see where he said he has been in the defence or police services. Looks to me he has not.

Low self esteem has nothing to with having a gun or not. Many world leaders have a gun I cant see them running for high office thinking that not the grates thing. Saying that is personal put down. Like if I say if you need a bike over 250cc your compensating for your low self esteem its mean and untrue.

Most of what I reed here falls in to spots the people that say guns or most any weapons has no place on a bike used for overland travil (I fit in to this one) and the people that say any one that has a gun is up to no good and wants to kill people because well there there inferior to every one else.

I know most places guns are not legal, dose that mean that the places that do alow them are evil? Most places dont have vegimite dose that mean OZ is bad? (i cant find any in the USA and I want to try it) I have eaten food that is not legal in the USA (or most of the world) I dont see them bad I have had Cuben cigars and rum not legal in the USA am I bad for doing that?

Why dose a lump of steal get people so fired up? Cars kill more people world wide, bats kill more people, knifes kill more. Stop lising to all the propaganda.

No I dont carry as a rule, I have to get my gun to and from the shooting range (years ago) I cant see having it help me. I have a throttle in my right hand and can turn around much faster than pull a gun out aim and fire it. Let alone a knife or club (both more usefull on a long trip)

I think If we all got together in a pub after a beers we hash this out much better.

If can lick my balls Id still ride. I gust do it all the time! :rofl:

This thread needs to be moved to the BAR.

Maybe Mae West got it right.......

I think you already have - and it's gone off.....

[QUOTE=Laser Jock;190941

The original game plan for America was a citizen militia with equal access to every horrible weapon of war possesed by the government. No standing army to go on foreign adventures or for domestic repression.

I still think this a good idea.[/QUOTE]




Hasn't worked since Vietnam, has it?

Hasnt worked long before that since the US civil war was not legal for USA citizens to have gatling guns.

But then most people dont know the USA was not supost to have any stanind army only state ran militias. Dint work to well so the USA did away with them. Then WW1 came up the USA was not to send troops in to war that did not thretin the USA soil but we did. Then WW2 and the USA sent munishens and guns to the UK in violation of laws and treats hoping to provok Germany to sink a passenger ship they did and in we go again. All of this had people up in arms in the USA. So now we have a people around the world demanding the USA do something about any and all spats the world has. Vietnam and the war now is gust extension of that foreign policy made way back then. One day soon the USA will be surprised on the world stage and the world have to deal with China or Inda or the EU or who ever wonder, what it will look like.