Advice on Argentina border crossing for license plate swap!
 

Some background: I bought the bike from another HUBB user who rode his bike down from Texas. I was able to title and register the bike in my name in WA, so I've got the paperwork and license plate with me here in Argentina. The TVIP is in the previous owner's name and expires in a week, but I have a notarized letter authorizing me to drive the bike out of the country with the purpose of returning to the US. I tried to get a new TVIP today with the notarized letter and previous owner's paperwork at Aduanas in Cordoba, but was unable - however, the customs official told me I should have no problem leaving the country with my notarized letter.

My question is: where would be best to cross the border out of Argentina in order to switch license plates and paperwork in between countries? I want to 'sign out' of Argentina with the previous owner's paperwork and plate and 'sign into' the next country with my paperwork and plate (so that I own the bike).

My plan was to go into Uruguay somewhere, but I've been told that the officials of both countries sit at the same desk along this border (making the plate and paperwork swap impossible). Is there a crossing into Uruguay where there is space between both borders? Or does anyone have other recommendations where I should cross?

Any advice is GREATLY appreciated! I've been searching the forums, but haven't found any uptodate info for this. Cheers!

Take the ferry from B.A. to Uruguay. Easy.

Crossing at the Falls have posts on either side of the river

That easy?
 

I had definitely considered taking the ferry from BA to Uruguay. However, I was told that others had tried this and failed (not sure why). I had also heard that it's incredibly expensive to take the ferry to Uruguay.

I'll have to look into the ferry more. I'm guessing it worked for you? When?

Tony - 'the falls' is Iguazu?

You heard wrong....but it sure pays to shop for a cheaper day, time and boat.

Mark - well that's definitely good to hear. Is there a specific location or ferry that you would recommend?

$140 USD for your bike and $70 USD for you, that is spendie.

The bigger problem is soon as you load you cannot stay with your moto making the swap difficult.

Go to Puerto Iguassu and enjoy it, between Argentina and Brasil you have a couple of km to stop and stretch and if your number plate fell off and you had to put it back on ... easy as, also Brasil has no TVIP so a clean swap, back to Argentina after spending time at Foz Do Iguassa, well worth it.

Not many falls on a border in that part of S America.

When we went through the Argentinian side, I had to stop and walk back to find the man who is supposed to stay awake to take the TIPs off the drivers as they drive through. He was relaxing in the shade at the time and I only went to the trouble so that the previous owners wouldn't have an outstanding TIP against their name if they ever returned. Didn't need to show him the Poder so I wasted 700 pesos on insurance that wasn't required.

"back to Argentina after spending time at Foz Do Iguassa, " -- might be pushing your luck a bit if their computer system is any good at flagging VINs and matching them to owners.

Maybe ... or go around the block to Uruguay or Bolivia or at worst Paraguay.

Just throwing ideas to help the man.

As you rightly point out sometimes the system is in place and other days you wonder WTF.

I was told that on the ferry, both country's formalities were completed on the same end of the trip - but of course I've heard of others doing the plate swap during the voyage so either the procedures have changed recently, or what I was told is wrong.

$210 for me and the bike is definitely expensive!

Perhaps the drive to Iguazu is warranted. I'm currently in Cordoba, so it's definitely a bit of a drive. Plus, my plan is to head to Ushuaia as soon as the bike situation is in order. But if the border is as lax as you say it could be the perfect place to cross for this sort of thing. I hope I have no problems returning with the same VIN but different plates the next day (possibly at a different border crossing)!

Do you guys know how difficult the Brazilian visa is to get as an American? Ie, how long does it take, how expensive?

I appreciate all the advice!

There are three ferries. Prices vary widely by date, time, phase of the moon, advance purchase, etc. My information about fares is several years' worth of inflation out of date, but you can research as well as I can--better, I presume. It's not expensive if you're paying with black market pesos and you choose your boat wisely. It's fiendishly expensive if you try to travel on short notice during a popular holiday weekend at the same time of day as everyone else.

I think there's a Brazilian consulate in Cordoba. I think I heard it's an easy one. My memory is highly suspect, so again you'd do well to run the information down yourself. But it's going to cost you about as much as--or more than--the ferry fare, so you might as well be prepared for that.

Of course there are dozens of other options. Think about taking one of the passes into Chile, where immigration facilities are sometimes a hundred miles apart. Those are more interesting routes anyway, since you're heading for Ushaia. You'll just miss the fuss and bother of the Dakar racers, who tend to jack all the prices skyward as long as they're around.

All this information is available via search on this site.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

All transport boats are owned by Busquebus which in Brasilian owned by Randon the truck trailer maker.

All boat payments are USD only and in hard cash, no Credit Card, you pay your USD cash at the official rate not the blue dollar rate so at a Peso rate of 8.5 not 13.7.

So they have closed the door on any advantage.

If it were me with Ushuaia in mind hightail across to a Chilean mountain border, Paso Vegara could be a good choice or Paso Seco north, trouble is you are in the system with Arg and contrary to popular belief 99% of the time you pop straight up on their system so you are going to have to have a well rehearsed story or they WILL ask for beer money .... but some beer money at the blue rate might be your cheapest option over all.

We crossed at Paso Sico the first time - where the border posts are widely separated (the Chilean Agricultural checkpoint counts as one of the posts because they record your details there and supposedly pas them on to San Pedro dA - and we definitely needed the PODER to satisfy the army people in the Argentinian post..

I'm happy to stand corrected on the ways the three ferries have apparently adjusted to the Argentine financial mess since I was there. I remain curious about the quoted fares. I got as far as noting that advance internet fares still vary by about 300% before I lost interest in checking further last night. If I was planning to use the ferries, I'd sure be studying those advance fares carefully.

I'm not clear what's being said about the border crossings at the various Andes passes. The OP needs his poder no matter where he crosses--or, for that matter, no matter where he rides. He's got a legal transfer of ownership waiting to be put into play, including new title, registration and plate (tag). The question is will the Argentine aduana communicate with the Chilean aduana in such a way that he won't be able to get a TIP for the bike under its new ownership after leaving Argentina. Having crossed at a few of the high Andes passes it's difficult for me to imagine that level of coordination and professionalism among the aduana personnel I encountered.

Note that I'm describing my own imaginative abilities, not established facts with solid predictive value. As always, mileage varies.

Mark

Heya Mark

Yeah we got prices in advance and asked on the day (23rd) with a friend in BA who wanted to ferry his van, we were astounded at the prices, we were there 23rd December so maybe take that into account but this is still "high season"...maybe a Dakar factor???? .. just guessing, either way it was a hell of a cost for two of us and a moto.

We took the long way through Frey Bentos from inland Uruguay, I would always prefer to spend our cash of fuel and tires rather than a ferry like that....unless time is burning your arse.

Cheers Andi

"I'm not clear what's being said about the border crossings at the various Andes passes. The OP needs his poder no matter where he crosses--or, for that matter, no matter where he rides. He's got a legal transfer of ownership waiting to be put into play, including new title, registration and plate (tag). "

Seems to be three distict layouts of border crossings.

First - is where both adunas are in the same room, which given the possibility that one or both sets of officers may want to physically check license plates and VINs, means that physically replating the vehicle is not possible even if mild shuffling of paperwork is possible inside the room.
Second is where posts are within sight of each other. Same problem with physical swap of plates.
Third and most desirable is where posts are miles apart and in between is deserted. Paso Sico is one such place and Iguazu Fall are another. At least three others between Chile and Argentina.

Yes, always need a poder if driving another's vehicle unless you are entered on the TIP as authorised driver. If convenient to a border post then that can be cheaper provided the current ownere is still there as a poder isn't needed PROVIDED a change of ownership/plates can be effected at the border.

Those who have just a poder and continue through multiple borders without changing title are likely to eventually come to a border they can't cross.

Still in a holding pattern in Cordoba for the moment. I appreciate everyone's advice! I'm beginning to think that perhaps Chile or Iguazu may be my point of crossing. Having a large distance between each country's customs checkpoint would be very comforting for me.

I'm definitely aware that I need a Poder in order to drive the bike. I have a notarized letter from the States, but it is in Spanish and I was told at Aduanas in Cordoba that it should be sufficient to drive the bike and leave the country. Who knows whether or not this is the truth! The only potential problem is that it says specifically on the Poder that I can drive the bike and exit Argentina into Uruguay. The story, though, is that my friend was riding his bike down from the States, broke his leg, and I flew down to bring the bike back up. Thus, to go from Argentina to the USA it wouldn't make sense to go thru Uruguay. If I try to cross into a country other than Uruguay, I plan to explain that Uruguay is not a good route for me to take back the USA. The previous owner's TIP expires on the 19th too, so I'm hoping they'll let me leave with the bike just to get it out in time! I plan to make my decision in the next couple days. I'll definitely report back on how it goes!

Quick question: Andi - what was the border crossing experience like at Frey Bentos? Did the Argentinian and Uruguayan officials share desks or rooms? Or was each station on opposite sides of the bridge?

[QUOTE=howlatthemoon;491674

Quick question: Andi - what was the border crossing experience like at Frey Bentos? Did the Argentinian and Uruguayan officials share desks or rooms? Or was each station on opposite sides of the bridge?[/QUOTE]

All Land/Bridge crossings between Uruguay and Argentina are one building situations where the officials from both countries share a desk. The only URG/ARG crossing where the aduanas are separate is the BsAs-Colonia ferry. And there is only one ferry company that takes vehicles - Buequebus. The immigration is at a shared desk, but aduanas is separate; one on each side of the river.

All crossings into Brasil from any country are separate affairs. No shared desks.

Some ARG/Chile crossings are shared desk. The Paso Jama is one of them.

I recommend the ferry crossing since you will be with about 100 other vehicles and the aduanas people will be very busy will all the other vehicles and not spend any time scrutinizing your situation.

Greetings.

Our Info is from 2007 where we crossed from Chile to Argentina many many times.

HU Traveller Ken and Carol Duval's Ride Tale

Paso de Icalma. The distance between the two border posts was from memory several kms on a dirt road so the change of plates would be feasible. Really nice ride plus we camped on the lake for a couple of nights

Another pass to consider would be Paso Agua Negra where there was a huge distance between the relative border posts. When we were chasing the Dakar in 2009 could not believe we were in no mans land for so long but once again spectacular riding.

BUT...something to consider... if returning Argentina would the TVIP be upset with VIN/Engine numbers already in the system with a bike re-entering with a new/ different plate?

Perhaps the question should be 'are the border posts on line'? If so, will this change of ownership - new plate - be a problem?

Cheers K & C

Yes, gunt86 covered it well, they are literally side by side.

Also great advice from Ken, none of the distance in the world will take away what is written on their computer screen, this is where your paperwork will come in if they are not happy about it.

You could always try the lost or damaged plate, DON'T use stolen cos they will want to Policia paperwork (nutha tin of worms)

if you are still in Cordoba, why don't you cross into Chile at the PASO AGUA NEGRA?
There you have 180KM!!!! between the arg. and the chilean border posts and the pass is just brilliant!!!!

Groschi

In Iguazu!!
 

Ok - so I took some of the previous advice and went to the Iguazu crossing. The things I read about this crossing were absolutely correct! While crossing, I never even saw Aduanas (and I was looking for it so I could hand in the TVIP). I only stopped at Immigraciones, where I had my passport stamped to leave the country. Oddly enough, the Immigration guy also asked for my license plate number (which I gave). After entering that into his system he asked if I was from Ecuador (the previous owner has dual citizenship in US and Ecuador and used his Ecuador passport to bring the bike into Argentina). I told him no (pretended to not speak Spanish well) and he sent me on my way. I made it out!

Now my question is: will I be able to get back into the country in a couple days with different papers and different license plate? I never handed in my TVIP, though the Immigrations official checked the license plate and saw the info from the TVIP. If they only check the license plate for a new TVIP when I return I should be fine. On the other hand, if the VIN gets flagged there may be an issue.

I guess I'll find out in a couple days. Will update again to let people know how it goes. Again, thanks for all the info!!

Unless something has changed recently with the system of how Arg Aduanas does TVIPs, you have made a big mistake. The last time i crossed at Iguazu, the ARG Aduanas was in a different building than immigrations and was about 100m or so from immigrations. It was on the righthand side of the road, a bit off in the trees.

You must return the TVIP to Aduanas. Otherwise the vehicle will not be granted a new TVIP ever. It will be considered to have never left Argentina. The computer system which all TVIPs are entered into contains both plate and VIN numbers.

I recommend you drive back to just before the border and find the ARG Aduanas. Tell them you were planning on returning to Argentina same day as you exited, but now you changed your mind and will be out of Argentina for 6 months or more. This is going to b rather difficult since you will have to exit Brasil immigration to do this, but they should stamp you back into Brasil without issue.

Must be a reason why the aduana building is in stealth mode - no signs, no boom gates, nothing. And I was looking hard for it. I stopped 100m past immigration and walked back and found the aduana man lazing in the shade and handed the TIP to him since he reckoned it was his job to take them.

This is the bit in my earlier post that was relevant The previous owners of my first vehicle found they had four uncancelled TIPs on the computer when they entered the last time prior to handing it over to us. Luckily they had to sort it out because I wouldn't have been able to.
Their system is obviously pretty slack, especially when vehicles come in over the isolated border crossings.

With all your paperwork you could always try the above board approach if the flag you on re entry, just tell them you were told to change it at the border as that is where all the official stuff is done ... then play dumb.

Why don't we do it in the road...
 

Back to the original post, where to swap license plates. I can't say for sure, but my gut says, turn in your TIP papers in AR and swap the license plate in the parking lot like you do it all the time, then cross the no man's land (or on the ferry, you will have time to swap plates, trust me.)

The key concept, you aren't doing anything illegal. I guess you are concerned that you will be confronted or get in trouble. If someone goes nuts on you, then ask calmly for clarity on the infraction. If you are getting no where, then again calmly ask to talk to someone at higher level. There are usually plenty of those at a frontier.

You can always show your documentation, which is valid and legal, and tell the story of what you are doing. At worst, you put the old plates back on and change them when you get into the no man's land or the other side.

Coming from UY to AR on the ferry, the immigrations officers for UY and AR were sitting next to each other, but the importation of the bike didn't happen until the bike was on the dock in BA. My advice, make the swap on the UY side. They are more laid back and more likely to simply nod. In all cases, act like you know what you are doing. You would be surprised what you can get away with. In Latin America confidence carries the day.

Why don't we do it in the road?
No one will be watching us
Why don't we do it in the road?
The Beatles (1968)

Why not just leave with the bike and return the TVIP, explain that you transferred the bike from the previous owner who had the TVIP in his name and now you are putting your new plate on the bike to continue your trip. Kind of like you explained to us in your original post. Should be nothing wrong with that.

Is this based on actual experience in SA?

I've never been to South Africa

I realized the other day that I never updated what had happened with my situation at the Iguazu border crossing.

After having successfully exited Argentina and entered Brazil without handing in my Argentinean TVIP, I was worried about re-entering Argentina. I had my buddy drive me on his bike back to the Argentina border crossing to hand the TVIP back in. No problem leaving Brazil since it's basically an open border at the Iguazu crossing (ie never got stamped in/never got stamped out).

When I walked up to Aduanas to hand in my TVIP, I told the customs officer that when I left Argentina a couple days prior that there had been no one working in Aduanas. The officer took that in stride (think it's normal for no one to be working in Aduanas at Iguazu) and wanted to know where my bike was to inspect it. I told him it was broken and in the shop and I was unable to bring it to the border. He hemmed and hawed for several minutes, but when I pointed out that my TVIP was expiring soon and my bike was awaiting parts from the USA, he folded, took the paper, and told me I was good to go. Success! Upon re-entering Argentina a few days later, no hay problemas!

For anyone reading this thread, trying to do what I did, I highly recommend using the Iguazu, Brazil border crossing. Just make sure you hand in the TVIP when leaving the country. I don't know that there would have been problems with reentering had I not handed the TVIP in (especially with new plates and papers), but the VIN # may have brought up a red flag. Not sure.

Thank you so much for posting your experience! I plan on doing the same thing - buy a US plated car in Argentina, register it in Washington and a big concern I had was about swapping the plates. Thanks again! When you exited did you need to show the old title of the car? Or just the poder? Also, how was your experience registering it in Washington? Are you from the US or somewhere else?

What you need to show depends on the post or the day or the person.
Iguazu was particularly slack.

Theoretically you might be dealing with one person as is common at say Paso Sico so he will have your passport and then the TIP and if even slightly awake will notice the two documents don't match. Then he will ask for the Poder which should explain the discrepancy.... Even if the Immigration and aduana are separated, they often ask for passport and tip together. Wanting to see the title on the way out is uncommon but possible, especially if the officer is a bit suspicious.

Don't count on there being a "nomansland" because things can change overnight and combined border posts are becoming common.