Oliie,

1991 ex military defender:

Months in Africa now: 16
Things that have gone wrong in Africa:
A. Broken rear shocks (non LR related)
B. Extra fuel tank switch leaked (fixed with dental floss type stuff (non LR related))
C. Oil leak on front hub seal
D. Punctured tyre (non LR related).
E. Water tank kinda fell off (non LR related).
F. Battery system ignition wire caught on fire (badly fitted - no rubber grommet on on hole through metal, battery cut off switch saved the day(non LR related))
G: Starter motor failed in Spain on the way down on one trip.

With good preparation a landy can be fine. Can be ;-)

Every 2-3 months find a good landy mechanic and get them to look at everything for an hour. Prevention saves future headaches....

Tom Sheppard
 

Thanks for the link Chris, I hadn‘t seen that article.(shame I couldn’t spell his name):stupid:

OK I’m not an anorak but they call it a 463. His is actually a 461 which is a basic model with selectable 4WD rather than the full time system found in the 463, nice basic drive train……..good, however it has electronically controlled engine management (Sprinter engine)……………bad, especially given the fact that IMHO MB/Chrysler lost the plot around 1998 in the quality stakes. Hence my preference for 1991-95.

Still has diff locks front and rear but after messing about in soft sand with my 463 I don’t see them as a huge advantage. Rocks, cross axle, mud situations yes great though, allows waaay more finesse/control when compared with open axle set ups.

I’ll have to track down the book.:thumbup1:

Here In New Zealand a Coalmine brought 10 of the latest toyota 70 series landcrusiers 4.5 litre v8 diesels
within ONe year two engines replaced!!, other stories around here of valve trouble, landrovers at same place no engines broken, just electrics
So long as you are familiar with whatever you use its ok, I drove Africa, australia, russia, could always get the landrover home

land rover versus cruiser
 

We know landy and cruiser owners and have come to the conclusion that landy garages abroad are cheaper than toyota, parts seem to be cheaper as well from what we've heard. Availability of parts is the main issue and again we've come to the conclusion that it's equally split between the two vehicles for sourcing parts overseas- depending on which country you're in.
So it comes down to the vehicle itself- I guess neither vehicle is the wrong one, it's all down to whether you've bought a pig or not. Some come well dressed and some not. 'Wasting money on extra's' , depends on the extras- if you want to live in it you will want to buy some bits and as far as I'm aware neither vehicle comes with roof tent or water tank as standard. So once again the vehicles are placed equally. It depends on what type of traveller you are- are you going to buy this equipment but spend most nights in hotels or are you going to bushcamp most of the time? Live- in gets our landy vote- lots of space and less windows for good security!
I don't see the point of 'car bashing', everyone has their personal choice. Our landy has been fantastic- maybe it's a mix of a good buy and VERY regular maintenance. What-ever you buy- enjoy it, look after it and you will be rewarded with the best experience of your life. Overlanding is not about the vehicle you drive- it's the experience of doing it that matters.:cool4:

In the end a cars a car
 

I love land rovers, they look cool and make you feel your on an adventure every time you get in one. Back when I lived in the Uk I had one, but it cost me a fortune to fix all the time. Still loved it thou even thou I knew in my heart of hearts Japanese was better.
Lets face it there is nothing wrong with the design of a landrover, its just the idiots can't put them together properly.

I'm in Australia now and there's one thing that speaks volumes other here. Go to the outback and drive where you are thousands of miles from anywhere, fuel and water is hard to get, and if your car breaks down you could be stuck for weeks. If not worse, which happens regularly here. (You're not greenlaneing in the cotswolds here.)

Now why you are there look around you how many land rovers do you see? Not many maybe 1% if that. Sure in the cities you see a good few but not out there. Why? Because Australians have learned by experience here. Land rovers just don't work here. Remember Land rover was king here once just like it was in Africa. They have lost that crown now. People will just not trust them, and will not risk there life's in one, out where it matters.

So when I do the RTW trip it will be a Land cruiser, if I was a mechanic thou with time money and the willingness to fix breakdowns on route. Then maybe I would consider a L/R. But there's no real need too. Its about the journey so I would rather spend time doing that.

Sure the toyo will breakdown I'm not saying it wont, but it will be less frequent and easy to fix than the L/R.

I see the whole Landrover Vs Toyota debate as like when Jap bikes 1st came to the UK. At 1st they where Jap crap and who would want them when you can have a Bonnie or a Norton. But other time, the quality, design and ease of use, reliability, not to mention the price won people other. Now apart from a reborn Triumph the British bike industry is dead (sad but true). This is a lesson for landrover I think !

Is This the End for Land Rover?
 

Oh how right you are phtest. It's what I have been thinking all along. With the motor industry so deep in the poo right now even the good cars are going to struggle to survive.

I would say that in the next 5-10 years the only LR's around will be the ones that enthusiast play with, certainly not any serious travellers, companies, explorers or anyone else who wants a reliable machine.

Of course there will always be the people who won't give in but that's what makes life interesting I suppose, it's their choice. I've made mine and can relax and be content in the fact that my head won this battle, not my heart, there are plenty of other battles my heart will win.

Who's not buying them?
 

You should let the Italian armed forces know: they buy lots of landrovers, even the Carabenieri.
Now if you want a pretty good armoured vehicle, at about 3.5 tonnes, then it's the Toy-ota LC that has cornered that market.

perhaps you ought to read about toyota in deepest africa, read this page from about post 4 downwards, nothing is better than the other
:oops2:
:
Which Expediton vehicles and why? - Page 2 - Land Rover UK Forums

what about this for manufacturers confidence insoem countries I am told this applies, cannot be sure?:
The Land Rover is warranty covered for off road use, and the Toyota aint.

what about this: YouTube - Defender rescue Toyota Land Cruiser
:thumbup1:
or read this thread page about halfway down onwards!!!
Which Expediton vehicles and why? - Page 2 - Land Rover UK Forums
In reality, each to his favourite, each have strength, for me NO RUST is a big one

can a landcruiser do this?
 

YouTube - Land Rover Defender Towing a 12 Tonne Truck.

Yes, they can
 

I'm surprised the side shafts didn't snap :tt2:

see this and plenty more available in Australia!!! so both as bad as each other!!!:biggrin:
Leaking door seals new Hilux & handbrake issues with Landcruiser anyone else exp @ ExplorOz

Nothing is Perfect!
 

I think you might be missing the point here. There isn't a perfect car, never has and never will be. It's that there is no getting away from the facts that LR are poorly built, end of story.
It's just how much do you want to persist with them. If that is your thing to be fiddling with a car while on a world trip then good on you but like I say, I want a work-horse because, for me, I have better sites to see than under a bonnet.
No matter what there will always be things one could find wrong with absolutely any car, every company makes a faulty car on a production line. I am sure that out of every 100 Toyotas produced there will be some that don't cut the mustard but one needs to generalize for the sake of sanity so what I am saying is that in general Toyota are leagues ahead of LR - simple.
You have a choice, we aren't living in communist Russia 20 years ago, it's the 21st century so why not get the best your money will buy. Of course if you want to hang out with other LR owners on weekend get-togethers in the Surrey countryside then a LR is a slice of British history, just like the good old MG but if you want to go around the world then that's a totally different story.
Choice is a great thing but please don't try and prove something that LR are superior - quite simply they are not and nothing will convince me or hundreds of thousands otherwise.

The no rust applies only to the body panels (well, some!). The chassis and bulkhead rust badly, as do some parts in the doors. Mine did - the rear chassis cross member was rotten and the bulkhead shot to hell, as were door frames. We have a couple of even older HZJ75s to compare to and they are nowhere near as bad - not even close. The downside of the aluminium body is that it is also far more difficult to panel beat, weld and generally repair. It is also far less strong in an accident. As a fleet manager making decisions based on commercial reasons we ruled out rovers years ago - and we did run a defender p/up. No amount of "passion" or sentiment is worth anything when your vehicles are expected to earn their keep. Okay that is not maybe so relevant to overlanding, but for most people it would probably be. I like rovers and owned one, later when circumstances permitted I went for a TLC 78 after working with TLCs for years and therefore having an opportunity to assess the two. I don't regret owning the rover as it was a learning experience, but it was a love/hate relationship. I have discussed this with other commercial users - miners rather than foresters - here and while some go Nissan (like us) or Mitsubishi for lighter duty vehicles, the general consensus is that the LC 70 series cannot be beat for longevity and reliability. The fact that Toyota pioneered Kaizan etc is reflected in their products. The fact that LR is now owned by Tata appears to sadly be reflected in their products. If you don't believe me or think I am biased then go check recent customer satisfaction surveys, which car etc. And we run a whole bunch of Tatas too, so my opinion is not misguided or anti-Tata in any way... they are shockingly built is all. At the end of the day we are all spouting opinions, but global sales figures and success tend to speak for themselves. As for warranty well we have (in 14 years of fleet use of many TLCs) never had an issue... but if we did well believe me the warranty stands - off road or not. Underground is probably viewed a bit differently:nono:

Okay this could be spleen venting or more "car" stuff, but on the other hand a lot of people in the UK are under the impression that LR is the best "4x4 x far", so I honestly feel that they should really be given the whole story before jumping in a Landy. Okay I have now decided never (on HUBB) ever to comment on LR vs LC again as I cannot really think of anything else to add.
Cheers,
Gil