What size of tyre iron
 

after doing about 10-12 tyre changes with a couple of cheap 12 inch tyre irons over the past four years I finally had a bit of a hissy fit in the garage after a particularly horrific change of some very cold and narrow tyres in the garage for my little 50cc.

It wasn't helped much by the fact I have a few cracked ribs at the moment, but, although the 12 inch irons are a good travel companion ,just in case I get a puncture on the road, I was wondering weather 18 inch or even 24 inch models make for easier changes and if there are some super quality ones that make changes easier and how.

Any useful experience out there?

cheers

Dave

Hey Dave,
Welcome to the bloody knuckle hissy fit club! :D

I can't imagine a 50cc bike causing much trouble, but I will take your word for it. It's all down to good technique. If you're having trouble breaking the bead, then I'd recommend a few things:

I use a big "C" clamp to break the bead. Works well even on stiff, steel belted tires. I put a couple little wood blocks to spread pressure on Clamp. Works well even on very stubborn tires.

Some guys can break even stubborn beads just using 8" tire irons and somehow wedging them in, working them around the tire. I've tired using bike side stands, car jacks and long 2 X 4 lever set ups, all with MIXED results.

On side of the road you will be limited. The C clamp works but is HEAVY and LARGE ... but many other solutions out there.

Another popular tire Iron now used are the Motion Pro ones:
BeadPro Tire Bead Breaker and Lever Tool Set
BeadPro FS (Forged Steel)

The long (16"), steel irons best for home/shop use, the Alu are 10" long, perfect for packing on the bike. These require using them in tandem to create a lever and POP the bead. Videos are about on the net showing how they work.

I don't own these but a friend did a change with them (short ALU ones) on his KTM 950 rear tire and they worked a treat. Impressive, and faster than using my BIG heavy C clamp. I will buy a set of Alu ones at some point. Best I've seen, and work for getting tire on and off as well.

I don't have much trouble once bead is broken, goes for removing tire/tube and getting all back on. I carry rubber lube on board called RU GLIDE. Many brands for sale, Motion Pro sells everything for tire changes.

At home I have a set of 16" irons. With these you really have to be careful, you can break the steel bead in your tire or can damage your wheel badly ... I'VE DONE BOTH! doh

One trick I like is using BIG HD plastic Zip Ties to clamp tire together. This helps to force it deep into tire Well easier, allows you to lever tire on opposite side. Keeping tire deep into tire "well" is key to getting tire on easily, even with short 8" irons.
Less chance you will pinch your tube as well.
SMALL BITES ONLY!
Also, never get greedy when levering on tire. Take small bites and keep constant pressure to force tire deep into Well as you work round the tire. Multiple Irons best for me. A buddies BOOT can help too to force tire into Well as you work round.

One important thing many forget!
ALWAYS REMOVE VALVE CORE FROM AIR VALVE STEM. If you don't do this ... you will never, ever break the bead. (but might break tire or wheel!) Let new tires sit in Sun or bring inside.

I carry 3 tire Irons. (essential, IMO) But whenever possible I let a tire pro do the work. Thing is, the more you do it, the easier it gets. It's still a terrible, bloody job. I've been on Baja rides where we had 5 flats in a day. Really sucks, eats up riding time badly.

We had one guy on one ride who was a ISDE level guy, could change a tire in under 5 minutes if plied with Beer! Me? A good half hour if things go well.
bier

What really pees me off is that after struggling for hours I take the wheel to some backstreet dump in the medina and a wizened old guy whips the tyre off with what looks like a couple of bent tea spoons.

Thanks for that Mollydog.

I'm not quite sure why i found my 110/80/18inch so hard to get onto my Derbi Senda. It made my 130/80 17 inch going on my Pegaso seem very easy.

Perhaps its just me, but I find the narrower tyres more difficult. What caused the hissy fit more than anything was the cold (+3-5 deg C) and lack of a good tyre soap. I was using a bit of water and washing up liquid, and I probably really need to invest in something that does the job a little better.

I've never had any problems with breaking beads but I guess it it very tyre and rim dependent.

So Tyre soap first, and if that doesn't make it any easier, a 6 foot long tyre iron!

cheers

Dave

Yeah some people are irritatingly good at a whole host of things that I find near on impossible..... And your not even allowed to be grumpy about it because it really is uncalled for!:(

I have used so many types of tyre levers. In the workshop and on the road..

I've found that £4 Ebay spoon ends are the best.

They can handle almost anything. The ends are perfect. The shafts are strong and the handles take the pain out of it. It makes the job far easier and that's important when levering tyres. It's tiring and sometimes very hard.

If you can't get your tyres on and off with these then it's your technique, not the levers.

Give them a shot. Two working together are perfect. They're well worth the pack space if you're expecting punctures.

Extra Long 12" 30cm Deluxe Tyre Lever Removal Tool 300mm Motorcycles Motorbikes | eBay

I'd say they are a bit of a step up compared to the ones I currently have which I think are actually a bit of the Mir space station that didn't burn up on its way down from space. Once you have got to the critical last bit to flip on they are being spat out because they are so thick!

The good thing with mine is that they have a little foot on on end that help with breaking the bead and in tandem, they can quickly get the job done.

Do you use those ones to bead break or have you got another method?

They work for everything. Braking the bead is best done in a rotating combination of lubrication, teasing with the lever and the heel of your boots ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw0B2gIwbBg

I always watch this video before a tyre change at home...sort of a refresher course, he uses window cleaner, I sometimes use WD40 which is the best if you let it dry after the change...

I guess the next thing is what is a good tyre soap to have in your garage, and also what is the best stuff to take on a trip.

And of course, what is the usual household stuff that does the job at 1/10th of the expense?

Window cleaner?

I take a 50ml bottle with 75% Washing up liquid and 25% water. Works very well. Tyre soap is nice but you have to buy it by the bucket usually.

Because I go everywhere as a 'happy camper', washing up liquid is usually in the bag anyway.

However my attempts at home have generally been at more of a 99% water 1% washing up liquid, so next time, I'll give your concentration a go!

cheers

Dave

WD40 is even better....

Check these out;
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=break+motorcycle+tire+bead+with+tire+iron s+video&view=detail&mid=1F1DC13A6E54662314FA1F1DC1 3A6E54662314FA&FORM=VIRE1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po7bII_fgc8

Definitely lots of dish soap and a little bit of water - I usually grab a bottle that is part used and top it up with water - then it doesn't evaporate off so quickly and the tyre stays 'slimy' so easier to slip the levers in, spoon levers do work pretty well, I was sceptical of them, but thy are pretty good and don't pinch tubes so easily, if you really need levers much over a foot long then you are doing it wrong. Warm tyres do make a difference too, hard to warm them up in Winter though, If I can I put them on the roof (with asphalt shingles) or in direct sunlight in Summer somewhere bloody hot they slip on much easier.

+1 for the ebay levers
 

I bought these originally
https://www.ajsutton.co.uk/product/B...FVFuGwodV2UHzA

And I could not use them, they were way to thick to get between the tyre and the rim. I ended up with two of the ebay tyre levers and ground one of the buzzetti tyre levers down so it was a lot thinner. I now use two ebay levers 1 adapted buzzetti and plenty of washing up liquid and perspiration. I could not take a tyre off without using 3 levers no matter how many videos I watch.

For me 16" steel levers, big blue G-clamp and a couple of bits of wood for breaking the bead and anything soapy and plenty of it. Don't know why but last set of tkc's were a pain to get off compared to the last set I changed! Caused a sweat!

Mal.

I recon some rims are easier than others. One manufacturers 18 inches might not be quite the same as anothers?

I am sure rims are getting taller and thicker? Many years ago I used to be able to take the tires off my D14 Bantam with old spoons :rofl: Admittedly I was much younger and fitter and I am sure Sheffield steel was better quality than the cheap Chinese crap we get from poundland these days :innocent:

Actual rubber lubricant as used in a proper tire shop is what I use. The product I've seen here is called RU-Glide. I'm sure you've got similar in UK?

Problem is Ru Glide only sold in huge gallon or 2 gallon tubs. Visited my local tire shop and the guy spooned me out some into a plastic film can. Done! (free)

That's what I carry with me. So ask local tire shop if you can "borrow" a bit of their rubber lube. (tip: it can get a bit runny in temps over 35C but still works fine)

Dish soap is OK but Ru Glide or similar is BETTER! (IMO)

Many of the videos shown are on tires like TKC80's or other NON DOT knobbly type tires. These tires are extremely easy to break the bead on. I'd like to see that guy do a Metzeler Tourance, Avon Distanzia or the like fitted to a tubeless style rim like the DR650 with the serrated inner rim which grips like HELL to keep that tire on there and WILL NOT let the bead pop easily.

On mine, you can't even get a tire iron in at all. A real BEAR to deal with :eek3: Tire sidewall must be properly crushed to break bead ... I use C Clamp. But I think the Motion Pro system may work better.

Tyre soap is good. Some stuff is designed for use only with a tyre machine though. Another good trick is to get a bar of household soap. Dip into water and rub it on. I carry some in my wash kit. Little ones donated from hotel rooms are handy to carry. And of course, they're dual purpose.

Expensive?
 

Another popular tire Iron now used are the Motion Pro ones:
BeadPro Tire Bead Breaker and Lever Tool Set
BeadPro FS (Forged Steel)

Mollydog they look good but they seem a trifle expensive?

Most guys I see go overkill on the tire irons, strapping the long workshop versions onto their bikes... I have a big set for my at home tire changes, but on the bike I carry a compact set of Motion pro 8" tire irons that fit in a sleeve and take up very little room... With proper technique the compact irons perform just fine ... The biggest mistake I see is people trying to pry a stiffer carcass tire off without having the bead opposite the working area sitting in the drop center of the rim... With a big iron the possibility of breaking or damaging the tire bead increases..

I did up a short video of a pretty casual tire repair on one of my back country jaunts:https://youtu.be/pKAzGBxJmuc

To pop the bead with the short irons I cross the tips and pry against each other pushing the bead away from the rim similar to the how newer motion pro tool works...

That technique may work on soft Knobby tires on dirt bike rims, but on other rims with safety beads ... running stiffer, road oriented tires, it's not going to work. (God knows I've tried it!)

21" front tires practically fall off the rim on a dirt bike rim like your KTM. Looked like the soft knobby on there was already broken by the time you'd stopped.

A 17" rear wheel with a knurled safety bead like the DID wheels used on DR650 and other bikes, can be extremely tough to break the bead. Once broken, spooning tire OFF back ON is not the hard part (for me).

The hard part is initially breaking the bead on the stiff rear street tire. I've even seen Tire pros at shops struggle with these using the No Mar tire changer.

With a Coates machine or other power changer, no problem ... but if you get the spoon/breaker bar in wrong, you can break the steel wire bead in the tire ... seen this in person ... luckily it was the worn out tire coming OFF that he ruined. I stopped him right there and got the boss to finish up the job.

On two occasions I've ridden on Flat Avon Distanzia rear 17" tires. One time for over 50 miles. I knew I couldn't break the bead with what I had on board ... and I also knew it would not break from riding flat ... it did not. Caught up with my riding partner who carried a 12" C clamp to break the bead on his 955i Tiger 150/17 rear tire. It worked on my DR's stubborn Distanzia. :thumbup1:

Anybody used the "body cream" from hotels instead of soap?

That front tire in the video was an MT-21 and it was pretty warm and soft cause I rode on it for a bit, you can see how easily it spooned off...
But I do run stiff carcass tires on the back more times than not and still get by with the 8" spoons... The rear tires I often run are the Metzler Karoo 3 tubeless in 140X80X18, the Dunlop 908 RR and also the Pirelli Scorpion Rally in the 140 size.... The Scorpion Rally is a big stiff tire that actually measures 150 wide and the biggest challenge is to get these big tires into the drop center of my DID Rim ... When the tires are on the rim for a long time the bead will actually stick to the side of the rim making it harder to separate the 2... When I get a flat I'll ride on it for a bit, this may not break the bead, but it will warm up the tire and hopefully make it more pliable ...

Last year I took a short jaunt and ended up doing an extended ride, problem was I forgot my tire kit... Well I hit some nuggets at speed and ended up with an instant flat on the front... With no tire tools I ended up riding 30 KM on it till I got cell phone service and phoned a friend to bring me out a tube and spoons... That front tire did not pop the bead in that 30 KMs of riding on it an I don't use rim locks...

Breaking the bead can be next to impossible on some tyre / rim combinations. The Michelin Desert + Excel rim on the back of my CCM took me a day and a half just to break the bead last time I changed it - and that was in my garage. I came very close to taking an angle grinder to it. There's no way at all it would come off at the side of the road with one person and two 8" levers. And it's not just lack of experience - I've been changing my own tyres for 40yrs and can do "normal" ones in about 20-30 mins.

The worst part is it now needs changing again ..... :(

I've never done a Michelin desert but have done a Michelin Baja which is probably similar construction while I remember it as a stiff tire I don't remember any problem breaking the bead... I worked as a mechanic at a small bike shop a couple yrs back and we did a lot of tires.. It was all done by hand with tire spoons as the owner was too cheap to buy a tire machine.. He built a fulcrum bead breaker out of a long 2x6 that fit into a jig on the workbench.. He was a street bike guy taking the tire off all on one side and had never seen the method of dropping the rim inside the tire that I use..

having only ever done 10-15 tyre changes myself, I count myself in the "have got a bit of an idea on it, but need more knowledge" category. There's been some really useful comments here, and a few useful ideas taken out, many of which appear to be tyre dependent?

I had a rear flat in my spoked/tubes triumph 955 tiger on the motorway 10 mikes from my house. I had a full puncture kit with me. I used every trick in the book and that bead just would not break. I had to get the AA out after an hour on the hard shoulder.

Once home I attacked it a again with a long levered manual need breaker. Even in the jig, it wouldn't budge. It took me an hour with a can of wd40 and a crow bar getting it to separate. I can't remember the tyre.

I've changed hundreds of tyres by hand and on machines and that rim was impossible. No wonder they changed them to cast wheels after two years.

So !! The point is. Sometimes it's almost impossible with whatever tools you have.

Anyway, after that I sold the bike.

It wasn't specifically the Desert tyre - I've done a number of those on other bikes and they're tough and need a bit more "commitment" than stuff like MT21s but otherwise they're ok. It was that Excel rim + Desert combination that proved impossible. Looking at it when I finally got the tyre off the lip where the sidewall locates is more pronounced than normal so it was holding the bead in place.

That works well as a "safety" feature - the same rim design on the front held the tyre in place so well that one one trip I didn't notice I had a puncture for 10 miles but the flip side is that when you do eventually notice you can't fix it (the rear anyway - the front isn't quite so tough)

On the 640 breaking the bead is not the difficult part when changing re-enforced carcass tires, it is the narrow drop centre band on the rim that causes the most grief.. The rims are fairly narrow so it is hard to get the bead to stay in the slot on one side when you pry across from it on the other, kinda chews on the knees a bit..

Try using Giant HD Zip Ties to squish the tire beads together, allowing the two beads to drop further into the drop center, making spooning on of tire on opposite side easier.

As you approach the Zip tied areas, just unclip the zip ties (most are re-useable) and pull them out of the way. Works pretty well.

Yes, it's the rim design. There are designed this way on purpose ... to avoid being sued into oblivion on a wrongful death case. The Japanese company DID and others have made rims like this for a long time.

TED, you should have figured out what my friend Bob (Triumph 955i) did ... he always carrys a big C clamp ... only thing we found to break that bead. It's the one I borrowed after riding 50 miles on a flat Distanzia. Bob showed me how to do it ... it works! BUT STILL ... a PITA!
https://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/p...-3ddhbSX-L.jpg
Bob and I (and 8 others) in Copper Canyon in '07. His 955i after a little tip over on road down to Batopilas ... he was snapping pics, riding no hands ... it bit him. :smartass:

For Triumph, using tubed tires on big heavy and FAST bikes, they needed rims that would hold tire fast when flat and a tire that would not break its bead easily. If bead breaks (especially front tire) at 80 mph ...the tire could come clean off the wheel. Then what? I know some old timers here probably had that happen to them on old bikes many eons ago. (it did for me!)

So they added that knurled safety bead holder thing on the rim and made it so it hangs on strong to tire bead. Many many dual sport and ADV tube type wheels use this type of rim and use tires designed to stay seated even when flat. (tubeless tires used with tube)

On the old Triumph Tiger list serve communities this issues came up many times. Finally, someone contacted then CEO of Triumph America, Mike Vaughn. He confirmed that Triumph specified this type of rim and tire for "safety" reasons.
Quite a few Tiger owners converted their rims to Tubeless type.

These seem like a good idea. tyre irons with a ring spanner on end which could save you carrying a socket for wheel nut?

These are good too. Gab at Zen Overland makes and sells them. From good quality materials.

I use the the besrest kit that comes with 3 8.5" irons .
For my 690 they're ok and very easy to use .
http://www.bestrestproducts.com/imag..._01_Kit550.jpg


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Moton pro do them too

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You can wtch the video on you tube https://youtu.be/7YNh6nFQ2Es

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Also the bead re setter https://youtu.be/5JPwpC4_7uY
Down side is costing im sure there is simler in uk or eu just not seen it yet!

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Got the Rabaconca tyre levers (16") recently as a present. Well ~ actually, they are part of the full RABACONDA Tire / Mousse Changer https://rabaconda.com package. The Rabaconda tyre levers have the same shape / pointy tip as the 16" MotionPro tire levers.

Rabaconda, brilliant portable tool kit for changing mousse and tubed tyres (inflated with around 0.6-1psi) with ease, shall take pics next time around but videos show how to process.... Rabaconda Videos: https://rabaconda.com/videos/

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...XsQqBXk-XL.jpg

MotionPro Tyre Tools.... https://www.motionpro.com

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...6hsMB45-XL.jpg

pnuematic tyres have been around for over 100 years old and a puncture still the big problem?,i still cant believe after all this time with punctures still being a pain, especially on bikes there isnt a long life road going moose ,then the only time the tyres would have to come off is when they were changed ,my moan over

On other forums I've seen it said that RuGlyde and Murphy's Oil Soap are pretty much the same. I don't have personal experience, though.

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