The truth about BMW Rider Equipment - and it´s not good!
 

In 3 words: piece of crap!
The Santiago suits (we got 2!) started desintagrating within weeks of buying them. We got them for our 1 year tour of South America, forking out nearly 2 grand as we expected quality!
Some seams are so badly done that they are coming apart. Especially the lining of the jackets and trousers where many of the seams are coming apart. It makes you wonder what would happen if we were to come off the bike! How effective will the body armour be as it is fixed to the lining. Will it hold? Some zips have broken and most are getting stuck! A real pain in the a*re!
Whatever you do, DO not buy them! They appear to be designed for posing around Box Hill on your shiney, barely used 1200GS on a sunny Sunday afternoon and not for "adventure travelling" as they are marketed. The response from BMW customer services: they will examine them at our return in the UK!!!! Not much use out here.

Savannah boots: Allegedly Gore-tex lined! They take so much water every time it rains (and we are having a lot of rain in Brazil/argentina!) that my left foot is totally soaked within minutes.

And don't expect BMW worlwide cover to do anythng for you. Lots of words but when it comes to action - forget it! Typical big company, they can´t deal with anything that is outside the normal rule book. Computer says no!
Response on the boots: buy a new pair in Porto Alegre (for about 500 pounds thanks to import tax) while a committee takes few weeks to decide if my boots are faulty. No doubt I would never see my 500 quid again after having been already robbed blind by the Porto Alegre dealership (I will put details on this in Workshops forum!)

In summary; unless you are Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman traveling around with a TV crew don`t expect BMW to do anything to replace faulty equipment! SHAME ON YOU BMW!!!! I put them in my Hall of Shame on my website!

HG maybe better
 

Sorry to hear you got duff gear Maria.

I was pretty happy with my Hein Gericke Cruise suit and Tuareg boots I got for my trip. The suit stood up very well and was great in the cold/wet although was obviously too hot for some of the places we went to despite the vents. No problems with zips etc.

The boots stayed 100% waterproof throughout the trip but the stitching on the rubber lever protector bits on the top came apart near the end of the trip and despite my best glueing efforts, I ended up chopping them off as they were flapping about, not a good look. They look like crap now and Edinburgh HG would't replace them either.

I paid £400 for the suit and £150 for the boots.

Still, taking BMW to task when you get back will give you something to do!

Wow...I am so sorry...did you guys have enough time to test them before the trip? I had the same issue with a pair of Lowa boots...but when I got back in the US, the company I bought them from were VERY generous.


Yup...BMW is now doing what North Face has been doing...selling the brand and not the gear. BUT there are still some quality pieces within their selection, unfortunately you have to sift through a lot of crap for Chelsea tractor type folk...


I agree, BMW shops outside of your locality(and I don't mean country), won't honor the service or products purchased at other dealers, even if you present a receipt! Absolute CRAP...

Unfortunately, a lot of these guys including Aerostitch are following BMW's example...thankfully the Japanese are not...
That said, there is still some quality stuff BMW offers, but you have to sift through the crap to find it...don't presume the label/logo in this day and age, provides you any assurance of quality or warranty.

Mottoedde,
Interesting what you said about AeroStitch, I thought this was a premium US brand. I was supprised to see them selling seconds on their website, I may be wrong but I got the impresion these seconds where from the Far East that were not up to scratch. I thought about calling in and buying a Darien jacket but if the quality is falling I might have re-think.
I agree with the decline in quality of BMW clothing, my current suit is falling to bits rather than wearing out. It leaks, zips pulls broken and the velco does not work anymore.

Steve

Wellies
 

I suppose steel toe-capped Wellington boots and a thick pair of socks are no good any more?

Wow! I'm really surprised to here this about BMW Gear. I've always used, and currently on a Savennah2 jacket, ralleigh2 pants and the Savennah2 (AKA Oxtar) boots. All have preformen outstandingly. I guess BMW is taking the Short Way Down in the gear catagory. This thread should be sent directly to their head office. I won't buy anything new from them. I never have actually! I can't tell you how disapointed i am with the direction this once great company is going! This goes for their failing final drives and leaking seals also. I wish Ducati made adventure bikes :)

For those that don't yet know I had a small off the other day, slide for a bit before coming to a stop flipping dog with small child chasing it into the road from between two cars so no choice but to drop the bike or smack the kid. I'm fine the bikes a little scatched up and nothings to broken to fix, but my nice HG Voyager Gore-Tex Suit is killed the armour didn't move and really did it's job well but the suits a right off, legs a little bruised, No Stupid Children or Small Furry Animals were harmed during the crash.

So now I'm in the Market for a new suit, BMW have offered me one for £607.75 inc vat, which isn't to bad (15% off current price), and I was just about to get my Mum to go buy it and ship it to me with my TT kit (when it finally arrives) when I read this thread. And now I'm right the way back to square one choosing a new suit.

Water proof, Wind Proof, Warm, Cool, Must be Crash Survivable and not a Bank killer, any thoughts will be gladly excepted.

Rallye Suit
 

Well, Lee, I did warn you that the Velcro on my 2002 Rallye suit wasn't sticky anymore, didn't I?

Other than that, my newer suit is a good as my 2002 one (so far).

Sorry to hear the Santiagos aren't up to much.
Stephan

BMW still has some quality stuff...I used their Tourguard jacket and Summer pants...and the venerable K75s on my recent trip.

The Tourguard jacket may not get you laid, BUT will take care of you in the deserts, the monsoons, and the winters of hinterlands...its a good jacket and available on the cheap as its not stylish...

Pennsylvania , BMW, Ducati, Triumph, Vespa, Piaggio, motorcycle, dealer, European Motorcycles of Pittsburgh

Research the reviews out there though...as others have opinions too.

Speaking of which...
What ANNOYS me the most about the recent turn of events is that WE the 'adventure riders' who are willing to quit our jobs, put our arses on the line and take on trips like we do, are the ones who get the stiff arm from customer service...WTF?

We're the ones that help sell these products no? Unfortunately the truth to that query is complicated...and not one our community would wants to hear:(

...Well said!
Another brand to try is Rukka, from Finland. Nice stuff, well built and very well reviewed, but VERRRRRY expensive!

Maria, another thing i may sugest is, do some research and call the head office directly, go strait to the top. I've had to do this with BMW Canada with success (warranty issue) BMW will never get the point if they don't here about it. We are the true test platform for their products, and we must be vocal if we feel they are abandoning their commitment to designing the best gear and bikes.
BTW...Skype rules!!

BMW Tourance
 

Unfortunately, I have the same experience with my "Tourance" BMW clothing.
I bought an expensive BMW jacket and pants and then, when I was riding in Norway in the rain, even my underwear was wet.
Now I bought a cheap rain overall and that does the job.

Well you sure got some responses since you started this discussion just 4 hours ago!
You probably don't know about the two actors, you being out on the road; they are still riding BMWs but they are not wearing the clothing - now dressed in Belstaff stuff!
Same name as the original UK trademark but, apparently, made in Italy nowadays.

I hope you get some satisfaction about the poor quality, eventually. :rolleyes2:

Streetguard II
 

Bought the Streetguard II. Totalled the GS last year whilst overtaking traffic and the guy towing the trailer decided to turn right without checking his mirrors!
Whilst knocked out and away with the fairies, the suit and armour did the job and didn't need replacing. (helmet knackered)
Likewise the BMW boots - still 100% waterproof and saved my shins - had broken skin on the shins from the force of impact (shins into cylinders) and deep bruising but the boots did their bit in protection.
In a nut shell - I'm delighted with my BM clothing and boots. All totally waterproof.
Will put them to the big test next year across Russia and back through the Stans...
Cheers
Paul

I heard lots of complaint about BMW apparel.
BMW apparel is for sunny afternoons, that's right, not for extreme conditions.

I used only a System-4 helmet from BMW, after learning Schuberth makes them for BMW, I bought it from Schuberth.

Since I heard complaints I went for Hein Gericke which I am very satisfied. Especially Tuareg series il perfect and definitely weather proof. Prices also not "too high", you get back what you pay.

I was in Amsterdam 2 weeks ago. I went to Hein Gericke shop, I needed summer mesh suits. I bought a good pair for just 180 Euros, in Turkey a guy asked 270 euros for just one mesh jacket !

Bought a Gore tex, weather proof boots for 140 euros and it is perfect, I am using since two weeks.

If you are going to ride in extreme cold/winter conditions, I recommend defifnitely Rukka (as Mr.Ron already did).

Ok, we know fashionable people who bought 1200 GS instantly when it is out of the factory are fond of BMW apparel too (not criticising them, but it is not my way).

Sami

I was in the flagship BMW shop in Stuttgart with a friend of mine from Germany this summer...I asked him if the costly gear hanging on the walls was made in Germany or overseas. He felt sure they were made in Europe. I strolled over and started checking the tags...Made In China. Article after article, same thing. My friend joined me in the search, surprised to see that everything was made in China. Oh well, welcome to globalization- Chinese quality at a German price. None of my gear is BMW, but I'm sure most of it comes out of China! Kind of ironic I think, as the Chinese won't let me (outfitted in Chinese gear) enter their country to ride!!! Perhaps I can show customs all my tags at the border in lieu of a carnet? Ride safe folks. H.

Rukka
 

I bought Rukka Allroad jacket this year and stitching inside one pocket was broken when new. After 1 week of use stitching at the end of sleeve broke loose from rubbing against glove. The thread used there is very thin compared to rest of the suit, so I'm pretty sure this will happen to other sleeve as well.
The suit itself is generally very well made and very expensive but on some reason things like that still happen. :confused1:

It appears to be the case that most clothing on sale in the Western world is made in China. It does not matter what its purpose is - fashion, bike riding, climbing, whatever - the big and cheap factories are based there.

For what it is worth, one can read the threads in here that describe experiences with Chinese manufactured motorbikes.

So, I guess it does not matter what the designer label is, the source of the manufactured goods should be taken into account - does Hein Gericke manuf in Germany nowadays? I'm off to check the labels on my riding clothes!! :rolleyes2:

My BMW Rallye 2 GoreTex inner suite is made in China, which isn't any problem for me. Chinese can do the same quality work as any european, but at much lower price. Their production quality is decided what materials and machinery is given to them, just like everywhere in the world.

So there's basically no point to produce in Europe anymore, that why many makes move to India, China, Taiwan etc areas where stuff is made much more cost-effective, many of them just forgotten to buy them a good production plants tho :P

Only complaint I have on my R2 is the red colour is faded because of the sun's UV (no UV protection treatment in jacket's textile?) But that's the prob for all the older R2 jackets I've heard. Otherwise stunningly brilliant suite - I've compared with some other purpose clothing, including much more expensive Rukka and I got to say R2 fits my needs like a glove. And I got it half-the-price off from BMW stock after the Rallye 2 Pro came along, so it has been unbeatalbe for me in terms of price/performance.

My g/f-s Savannah 2 jacket was made in Portugal, GoreTex part in Bosnia if I remember correctly. So looks like it depends... And Savanna 2 is more expensive than Rallye 2 too. :)

Thanks for all feed back guys.
I will do a formal complaint to the board members of BMW as soon as I get to Buenos Aires and find a decent cybercafe that does not crash on me when I´ve just finished a long email!!!!!! Complaints to customers services would be a waste of time!
I will make sure to copy this link! There is weight in numbers !

And while you're complaining to them Maria, please ask them to ensure that they don't start making their motorcycles in China. That would really be a bit too much!! :nono:

My wife and I did tons of research before buying our riding gear and came up with what we think is the best stuff out there. It easily exceeds Aerostitch beacuse of rain worthiness and hot weather riding.

MotoPort

It is made in the USA, has the strongest seams I have ever seen and the outer mesh shell is made with Kevlar. We have ridden in the cold, rain and heat and the clothing performs perfectly. It is a triple layer system. Outer Kevlar lined mesh contains the new soft padding that hardens on impact and is lined, so you can ride in just the shell in the heat. Inside that is a fantastic rain suit that breathes, then the third, optional piece is the long sleeved quilted liner (top only) We are in the Utra II suits.

Our boots are Sidi Canyons. They have also performed well, kept our feet dry in all-day rain.

Sidi Canyon Gore-Tex Boots @ Extreme Supply!

Steep

Jep the famous "german build quality" is no longer there.

even the germans themselfs say so.
i prever italian "quality" these day's, fiat build the machines the germans used in the eighties to build bikes and cars.

Oh, they have. The Elefant 650 would be fun, but I'm only 5'6". Sure, there's shorter people that ride them but I like getting one foot planted instead of touching the ground.

My 250cc bitsa does well (except when I grenaded the piston and crank). I'll have to see what happens when I go completely crazy and get myself a Ducati Cucciolo for a long trip.

--Dave

Thanx for reminding me of the Elephant, Dave! Almost forgot about that one.

Actuallly, it's the first time I hear complaints about the BMW gear. I have been using a BMW Tourance jacket for over a year and it has served me well and it keeps water out great.

Maria - I hope BMW come through for you - I do not know how well they deal with customers in these cases.

Also - when you run a large production line, I do think you occasionaly come across an item that fails the normal quality standards, but naturally this does not mean Rukka make poor quality gear. If the company is any good they have a great warranty in place and will replace the item immediately without an argument. Rukka have a 5 year manufacturer guarantee on much of their gear I think, which speaks volume. Ahh yes and my next jacket will be a Rukka. :innocent:

I two have the Airmesh Ultra 2 Jacket (winter liner & water proof liner) and find it to be the perfect compromise. They are expensive for Australians to buy as our dollar is RS to the green back, but it is worth every cent.

I have ridden in snow in North America and 40oC heat in outback Australia all without drama. I recently purchased a pair of Kevlar jeans for Motoport, the only downside is that the Kevlar mesh is that abrasive that it is damaging the paint on both sides of the tank.

Please note that ordering from a supplier in another country does not always run smoothly as you can't just walk up the road to return clothing. I will be sure to make my requirements a lot clearer next time. I forgive you Wayne.

It is good gear and all made in the States to order not China.

:thumbup1:

Most of the stuff available locally is Cordura crap made in China. I had a Dririder jacket that lasted all of 2 weeks and 5000km before most of the important stitching and zips gave way. It was returned to place of purchase and a full refund given.

It seems that if the Chinese used a better thread that most of us would find the overall quality bearable.

Glen

Sorry to hear about your problems with your BMW gear. I too have seen a decline in quality of certain BMW articles (including bikes) but the Rally Pro 2 I have is fortunately not one of them. FWIW the jacket is from Kroatia and the pants from China. I had a get-off last year when I dropped my bike on me and the suit was fine. The seams are all good and so is the Gore-Tex liner. I have 45K miles on this suit and so far it is holding up very well.
I hope that BMW comes through for you as some dealers and regional managers for BMW are idiots. It is rare a dealer will stick his neck out as corporate BMW seems to think their poo doesn't smell. If enough customers complain I am sure the bosses in Munich have to wake up some day.
Unfortunately Germans are very stuborn and don't admit to mistakes easily. If their bottom line drops however they may change their tune somewhat.( I hope)
Good luck!!!

Exchange?
 

Hey Loxsmith,

How long has it been since you checked the exchange rates?? I am paid in US and now I am actually loosing money given that it is over 90 cents!

Therefore, buying gear direct from the US is cheap for us now if your paid in Oz$! Buy up big mate, we never knoow whats going to happen to it.

I have some BMW gear which is made in China, Portugal, etc and most is ok, but I do have several items that are rubbish, ie: gloves, helmets, visors. I had 2 x system3, 2 xSystem 4 helmments and the foam inside used to deterioate if not used for a time. BMW said that there was nothing wrong with it but then I see that the next model helmet came out with detachable washable lining! A coincidence???

Cheers

BMW's made in China and Taiwan
 

Actualy they do have plans to make the engines of the new 650 series in China and the new G450X will be build by Kymco in Taiwan............ Just read it in a bike magazine here in Holland. No use in buying European anymore. :-(

From the BMW 2008 "range" catalogue, picked up at the NEC show a week ago:

The Rally 2 Pro suit = £715 (and their other 2 suits are on offer at £850+).

Helmets are going for around £235, but a new one in Carbon Fibre = £850.

A joke that, as ever with these things, contains some truth therein:
Sorry about the font; it doesn't seem to want to change!!

Finally, here is a definition of globalization
I can understand and to which
I can relate

Question:What is the truest definition of Globalization?


Answer: Princess

Diana's death.


Question: How come?


Answer:

An English princesswith

an Egyptian boyfriend

crashes in a French

tunnel,driving a

German car

with a Dutch engine,

driven by a Belgian

who was drunk

on Scottish whisky,

(check the bottle before you change the spelling),

followed closely by

Italian Paparazzi,

on Japanese motorcycles;

treated by an American doctor,using

Brazilian medicines.


This is sent to you by

a Canadian,

using Bill Gates's technology,

and you're probably reading this on your computer,

that uses Taiwanese

chips,and a

Korean monitor,

assembled by

Bangladeshi workers

in a Singapore plant,

transported by Indian

lorry-drivers,

hijacked by Indonesians,

unloaded by Sicilian longshoremen,

and trucked to you by Mexican illegals.....



That, my friends, is Globalization!

Most cars have all the forged parts, even the BMW, Mack trucks, Mercedes....name it and its most probably forged by Bharat Forge in India but the prices have not dropped for the customers.
Even the latest Chevrolet is a KIA made in Korea

So it comes as no surprise to find the new enfields have nicasyl barrels, which has confused some new owners as it takes 6-10K miles to run them in.

Well this is the email I finally sent to various board members of BMW and the DG of BMW Mottorad. Maybe I will get a reply! we live in hope!


Sirs,

This is to make 2 formal complaints.

One regarding the DANGEROUS incompetence of Porto Alegre - Brazil workshop, and second regarding the appalling customer services treatment regarding faulty and /or low quality rider equipment.

To put things in context, we are motorcycling on 2 BMW F650s all around South America and have been on the road for 6 months now.


1/ Porto Alegre - Brazil workshop.

After the theft of my motorbike in Brazil, and subsequent find by the police, I had it transported to BMW Motorrad Porto Alegre (Brazil), and asked them to check the bike as it had been stolen. We had a translator with us so they understood the situation and what I asked them to do.

When I picked the bike up few days later, I was charged over 1000 USD for the transport of my bike to the workshop (200kms) and the only work done was fitting a non-BMW ignition key. The forks where mis-aligned and the handlebar was bent in 2 places! As a result, the throttle would be "sticky"and would not close on its own, I would have to close it up or it would stay open. I was absolutely horrified that this was not repaired! I rode the bike out without saying a word and took it immediately to a different workshop to get the bike repaired. As it was, the bike was dangerous to ride, and I am absolutely horrified that BMW let me leave their workshop riding a dangerous bike!

2/ BMW Rider equipement

We bought 2 Santiago suits and a pair of Savannah boots in London for our trip.
The Santiago suits started desintagrating within weeks of buying them. Some seams are so badly done that they are coming apart. Especially the lining of the jackets and trousers where many of the seams are coming apart. It makes you wonder what would happen if we were to come off the bike! The response from BMW customer services: they will examine them at our return in the UK!!!! Not much use out here in South America.

But the worse are the Savannah boots, allegedly Gore-tex lined! They take so much water every time it rains that my left foot is totally soaked within minutes.The response we had on the boots from the customer services was to BUY a new pair in Porto Alegre (for about 1000USD, thanks to import tax) while a committee takes few weeks to decide if my boots are faulty! No doubt considering our experience with this dealership, we would never see our money again! This is totally unacceptable! I was not asking for a free gift, only to get replaced faulty equipment!

BMW motorrad market adventure motorcycling but do not deliver the quality and the support that you market! It is a great shame that you let down the very same people that get in the front line, riding around the world, using your bikes and gear, and discover ashaming BMW pratices and quality! You claim that BMW is a global brand and can provide support anywhere. Well in my experience, you can certainly try to rip off your customers even further but that´s about all!

I am continuing my trip, with leaking boots, and will curse BMW everytime it rains. As far as my husband and myself are concerned, you´ve lost 2 customers. I intend, at our return to Europe, to do presentations on our trip. I´m afraid I will be less than complimentary when BMW is concerned.
You can also see from these forums that I am not the only disatisfied customer.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...quipment-30324

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...und-the-world/

Sirs,

I do not salute you!

Maria Robinson

PS this is an open letter and any response (or lack of it) will be published and discussed in various motorcycle forums)

index

make Suzuki's motor parts too.

Current Aussie - US Exchange Rates
 

Todays exchange rate is
1 Australian dollar is worth 88 US cents. I has, and always will be dearer for us to buy US products.

Mollydog and I both seem to agree that the Motoport gear is well worth it

"dearer' is a realitave term.

Many decades ago the exchange rate was $usd1.10 ... that is right the OZie dollar got one dollar and 10 cents 'merican.

------------------------ Whatever the exchange rate is (or inflation rate) .. the cost to someone is probably best expressed in how long they have to work to obtain the goods.. Is it 'cheaper' to make it yourself .. or buy it .. that is the first question. If you are going to buy it.. the next question is 'where from?"

---- The latest B&H catalog (USA photo firm) arrived here in Australia .. posted from Sir Lanka .. nice stamps!

I thought the 'stitch Darien was via India, but I could be wrong.

I had one for a little over 120k? miles and loved it. Tough as dirt/nails/etc.
I have maybe 80k? on a 1st Gear Kili 4 and it's also been good.
Most name-brand gear is good nowadays and it gets down to what things you're most picky about. Isn't it good that we can now be picky?

I can remember riding in a fatigue jacket and multiple sweat shirts, not being able to afford a yellow rain slicker, and life was great. :)

And before I forget....:)

My GF, a shopping fool/addict she is....had some of the bestest, greatest, latest Rukka gear that could probably be traded for enough food to feed...you get the idea....and I never saw the value. She sold it...eventually.

What spoiled people/riders we are, I think.

Does it rub your neck or chin in a weird way? Well, fck, then there's no way you could tour with that crap.....

BMW clothes
 

Well my Rallye 2 suit has taken a hell of a battering over the last two years and is still just fine, if completely filthy (Red suit - bad move!). I can't vouch for the Santiago suit, but is it really designed for living in day after day for months? I don't know.

The boots story sounds dire. This shouldn't have hapenned. However, I've never had a pair of boots, or gloves that stay watertight for long. I'm sure that waterproof boots and gloves don't exist (aside from wellies and Marigolds!).

Currently using Bullson boots. They stayed watertight for about a week after I first bought them, but are otherwise a good tough boot. Shopping bags keep the water away from my socks if riding in the wet.

All this breathable but waterproof fabric stuff is just nonsense. If it can 'breath' it can let water in eventually. I've never had truly waterproof gloves in 25 years of riding. Putting workshop/surgical latex gloves on first for wet riding makes life a bit more comfortable.

I find that the Rallye suit is not best when it's completely freeing cold (under about 2 degrees C wind chill). Too many zip vents which let the chill in when closed. But overall, I'd recommend one to anyone.

Craig

I like surgical gloves too, but I squeeze them on the OUTSIDE! Keeps your leather gloves dry.

Back when I first started riding overseas in '74 1 Aussie would buy close to 1 and a 1/2 US.

Garry from Oz.

Don't Bring Out The Big Guns Straight Away
 

How to win friends and influence people!

Personally I would have started the first letter at least along the lines of

Dear Sir,

As a long time and generally satisfied customer of BMW I would like to bring to your attention two unfortunate experiences I have had recently with an official BMW workshop and with some 'mission-critical' BMW rider equipment I am using for an around the world tour (please see my link www.XXXX.XXX.XXX)

....just a thought but going to DefCon 4 immediately doesn't leave you much to work with if their initial response is unsatisfactory!

Anyone got any comments on the Rev It Cayenne / Cayenne Pro?

BMW clothes: expensive (and rubbish) fashion wear!
 

I've always felt BMW gear was over priced. My freind has just replaced his inordinately expensive Rallye Jacket. Bought at roughly the same time as my £120 Hein Gericke Tuareg, his jacket has done roughly a quarter of the miles in much less tough conditions. My Tuareg is still going strong (although it is permanently filthy now!)

For waterproofing I wear (underneath the Tuareg) a North Face Goretex Paclite hikers jacket which I got in a sale for £100. It works perfectly and keeps me dry as a bone. This has the advantage that I have a nice looking waterproof when I get off the bike.

If you want to look like Ewan, great. Otherwise spend your money more wisely, grasshopper!

Matt :)

I see the stereotypes are spreading, especially from people who very probably never owned or worn one :)

Years back when Ewan and Charley weren't even heard of, I used to think about the same - they're expensive, too "stilysh" (everybody wear dominant black clothing on the street - why I shouldn't?) ...until I got to try one. Especially after a nightmare with my cheap "conventional" clothing in Iran.

Aside from Maria's, who hasn't had any extensive MC travel experiences before and her clearly winded-up story about their equipment reliability thinking about the expensive clothing should do wonders, I'd like to add my own, balancing views. Previous post was about the parts of the world they've been done, but I haven't really shared my views about their functionality.

I don't know much about Santiago, but my better half has worn the previous version of Santiago called Savannah II that has a women-cut sizes and she only is saying good words about it after extensive use.

Seen and worn most of riding equipment, from very expensive till the very cheap I'd say BMW Rallye equipment is one of the very best currently available for serious adventure-traveling use. In fact most of other makes are just copycating the original BMW Rallye concept, and ironically, none of them has really surpassed the R2 in terms of it's original concept, a fact which itself says alot about it, IMHO anyways.

- Advanced ventilation
- Robust
- Light-visible colors
- Lot of pockets

Would be the keywords here. Previously you only saw a pitch black Sun-sucking clothing, made to ride -10C weather, with limited vents that would make you sweat to death in the +45C Iran traffic and be unseen in the traffic in your black clothing. "Adventure travel" style of clothing stared with the original Rallye 1 that changed that by making clothes light and highly ventilating, instead of the common outer waterproofness (that would make it poor-ventilating cloth) they put Gore-TEX inner waterproof suit.

With R2 I've ridden +40C heat madness in Syria, with all the vents open and -10C here in Estonia all the vents closed combined with goretex insert and I find it hard to find any similar purpose clothing capable of that wide range of temperatures and conditions. That's exacly what got me hooked with the BMW stuff that I hated at that time. I've been looking into (even more expensive than BMW) Rukkas and couldn't find a model that does it better.

If you take a close look at the Rev'It the first thing you'll notice it's a clear BMW Rallye 2 copycat, and you see the quality of the materials and seams are inferior (hence the price difference). Reading reviews Cayenne leaks after some relatively short time use - my R2 is now 3 seasons old and over 50,000km ridden never leaked a drop. It's worn, burnt by the sun (red colour is fading), it's dirty as hell, but it still goes strong - seams are strong, ALL the zips work and the goretex inner holds me dry.

BMW equipment expensive? OK, UK is long been known as a rippoff country... We've got ours half of the EURO list price brand new, who buys their stuff with the list prices anyway? :)

So while guys bash BMW clothing coz of Ewan and Charley et al. jelousy vs media stunts (never cared about this game anyway), it hasn't made the clothing any worse for me. So while I hate the "BMW lifestyle" ideology etc, in my humble opinion, (both R1&R2 and Savanna 1&2) are among the best clothing I can find for my traveling purpose.

Maybe BMW clothing build quality has gone down with the new models of Santiago and Rallye 2 Pro...

But I wouldn't knock one until I've tried one.

I've never owned a Gucci handbag either, but I'll still stick to my Macpac rucksack thanks! :)

Matt :)

Macpac is for fashion victims and wannabes :)

I use a cheap chinese made rucksack instead that does the same job, but is much cheaper ;)

Good comeback! :) Actually, have used a £3 indian army shoulder bag as a lunch bag on my XT for ages. Damn thing refuses to die so I can buy a 'proper' tail pack! ;)

Matt :)

MoD Police - Special Escort Group (S.E.G)
 

I notice that the UK MoD Police (MDP) have recently chosen RUKKA to supply their S.E.G outriders with plain black textile suits whereas all leather suits have always been provided "made to measure" by BKS Leathers. The textile suits are tendered at only £350 each and the Leathers are only £500. I guess they get a reduction for buying in bulk?

Personally I have always thought Frank Thomas gear represents outstanding value for money compared to the more expensive German options. I still have my old venerable "Aqua" Jacket and reckon it's got a few miles left in it yet.

It would be interesting to compare which suits the different police authorities use because it's common knowledge that they usually pick the best quality in terms of longevity and protection. Although looking at my Council Tax bill this year I reckon they don't give a toss about cost...

getting a bit off-topic but....
 

My 'desert fuel tanks' came out of a market in Buchara and was meant for a camel - essentially it's just a throw-over type thing that goes over the hump, whack it over the bike tank, ad three empty coke bottle to each side and hey presto, another 15 litres of go-go juice! Cost about 10 bucks. Good for the thrill as well as it gives the impression of riding a massive incendiary device

It's sort-of visible in this shot (from KZ) (tanks empty)

You guys are lucky ...
 

I was born in a hole in the road.

My fuel I distill each evening from sugar cane I find by the highway, and my backpack is a big blue 50p IKEA tarpaulin bag that I have sewn an old zip to. I retread my tyres by melting stray rubber bands to them when the rubber gets low. For food I roast road kill. And I have found that you dont really need toilet paper if you stick to the "one hand principle".

But I still wear a BMW "twat suit" ... cause it fits, its very comfy, I have had no quality control problems at all (my trousers were made in Turkey?? and the jacket in Hungary??) and its done its job well in plenty of tumbles.

I have however (in concession), long ago removed all the BMW badging from it.

He he! :) :) Reply of the thread!

Matt

ah, but Aerostich riding gear is made in the USA, in Duluth, MN. i have had
FIVE jackets and a few less pants (don't like the one piece; they leak at crotch) and have been utterly happy with them -- and their service.

z

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with BMW clothing. My only piece of BMW kit is the Santiargo Boot.
I've used these for around 1000 miles now and in all weathers. I honestly rate them. Waterproof, Comfy to walk in and give a good sense of being solid safe boots.
I hope you get some joy from BMW head office.

regards

Shaun

I am sorry to say, but I hate those guys who buy a BMW GS 1200 ADV full equipe and also buy the whole BMW gear at the same time. I can see a lot of them near the mall, but I didn´t find them on the road. Ups, yes, I remember I found 15 of them in Uzbekistan, they were on the Kudu Expedition leash and even had a 4x4 following them in case they burn a small lamp. Ok, all of them were wearing the most expensive BMW stuff while I was riding almost nude. I was crazy after riding the Aral Sea and they were still fresh living they lifetime adventure with nannie.

I tried a lot of gear and what I can say is BMW makes good expensive motorcycles and sells bad expensive gear and the italians sells bad bikes and makes good gear. Save your money and buy BMW to ride and Dainesse and Alpine Star to wear.

Leaning toward Maria 41
 

This is not a total abandonment of the more $1,000.00 USD I paid for one blue, gray with little black and white stripes BMW Motarrad Rallye 2 Pro jacket at a BMW shop in Phoenix, Arizona, but about 10,000 K into my last South American tour, I lost the neck velcro and the main zipper. As long as I don't have the waterproof jacket zipped in I now use the secondary zipper to keep out the chill. Another immediate problem is the elastic string at the bottom of the jacket, it disappeared into the jacket ????

Elisa is about to buy a proper zipper, remove the defective one, and sew in the new main zipper. Needless to say I am very disturbed the zipper became useless without any misuse.

Unless any BMW rep is reading here and advises differently. And to BMW, no one respects your warrantee here unless the product was purchased here. And, there is no way to ship my BMW jacket to you in some other country, because after you repair it I will have to pay half its' value new to the customs here, or it won't be allowed back in the country. the Rallye Pro is not a "sexy" jacket, but one can fold up and under...the hipps/butt protective aspects of it , when you want to show off your great ass.

It is running about even in terms of getting laid between the old leather and the tucked in BMW Rallye Pro . I have a lot more money now then when I bought the leather jacket, this may or may not be an important consideration, only tempered by the upgrade in quality of woman I am now attracted too. Another factor might be that I am 30 years older, this is a plus or a minus consideration depending on the woman.

The protective pads worked well (stayed in place) and the outer material prevented what should have been really bad road burn. It does get very heavy when wet, I just wear the included insertable jacket or, my old Northface underneath.

I always wore my black leather, like Marlon Brando wore in the "Wild Ones," with a NorthFace waterproof parka over in case of rain. If any one wants to see my old (now about 30 year old )leather jacket I am wearing it on our web site on Home page and see our services page. The zipper is still like new and the removable fleese still zips in and is warm. Not one thread has come loose, even the included black leather belt.

Back to BMW gear , at the same time as I purchased the Rallye 2 Pro jacket, I bought BMW (MADE IN ITALY) (ECHT LEDER)??? touring boots, they were expensive, but other than the leather behind the zipper always getting caught in the zipper are waterproof and fairly comfortable, lower heel was weird at first, but I got used to it.

My previous boots were TIMBERLINE "Down Shifters," I think it is a little known fact that Timberline has several motorcycle boots available. These boots saved me a broken ankle so I really can't say anything bad about them.

The BMW thermal long underwear is GREAT.....

I hope BMW is covering this thread. Or, the creative marketing department of some other motorcycle gear manufacturer who understands how valuable the information here is to marketing AND PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT . If I was a decision maker at BMW I would immediately followup on all defective product reports here.

Eat, Drink and Be Careful xfiltrate

I am sorry to say, but I am exceedingly tired of people who criticize other people for their choice of riding gear, or the trips they go on, or who make sweeping, unjustified generalizations such as "I can see a lot of them near the mall, but I didn´t find them on the road" or "BMW...sells bad expensive gear".

Good on ya if you want to ride around "almost nude" or "crazy" from exhaustion or whatever you were crazy from. I'll buy the gear I want and thus far, it has generally been BMW gear, and I have very few complaints--my Santiago jacket has about 50k miles on it and is still going strong. I could probably find cheaper gear that would be about as good, but given that I keep jackets/pants/boots for several years, the incremental price difference just isn't that significant. I hope that's all OK with you?

Blimy, I never thought I'd end up pitching in on a BMW bashing thread as I've never owned one and am probably never likely too. But I do wander round my local dealer in Oxford from time to time and about five years ago bought a Savanna 2 jacket on impulse in their post Xmas sale (actually, the impulse was that my wife offered to buy it for me and you don't turn down stuff like that).

My first bit of anything to do with BMW and after five years of pretty heavy use my conclusions are: best jacket I've ever owned. Not really warm enough for the depths of winter - especially now that I've managed to lose the liner (anyone got a S2 liner they don't need / want to sell?) and the weave on the material does tend to collect dead flies, but that's it. Nothing has broken, worn out and it's still comfortable. Which is more than I can say for the Frank Thomas jacket I bought about the same time. It sits awkwardly on my shoulders, cuts into my neck and the main zip is badly under specced. It was ok in the showroom but just doesn't work on the road. Both jackets cost exactly the same (ok, the S2 was in a sale).

Will the experience make me rush out and buy a GS? No, but credit where credit's due, it's a very good bit of kit that's lasted and done exactly what I wanted. I'm aware that one good experience swallow doesn't make a BMW heaven summer but when I do come to replace it I'll certainly be having a look at what's in the BMW range - come sale time anyway.

I have owned a BMW but I don't now it was a great bike but just not what I was wanting .

But I did get some city pants earlier in the spring and I have to say best quality bit of biking kit I've owned.

They aint waterproof so I can't comment on that but for a pair of pants that look ok off the bike they are well protected and I wore them on a short euro tour and they were ace.

If i found one of their jackets cheap I may even be tempted.

My kit is a mish mash of whatever I find cheap still love my Lidl boots 5 years old can't fault them comfy and totally waterproof £12.

Luckily these city pants arnt covered in crap branding so they blend in.:scooter:

I bought a Santiago jacket because I wanted a warm weather jacket that wasn't BLACK and also it didn't scream " look at me ,I'm a BEEMER MAN !"
[in other words -it was styled conservatively and could be worn in casual situations when off the bike ]

It certainly is a warm weather jacket , at any temperature below 20c ,it's bloody cold even with the bmw liner ,mainly due to the full length arm zippers which have no backing strip .
The material is good and it's not stiff like some jackets , the pockets are a little awkward and I'm anticipating the pocket zippers to pack in soon .
If I'm expecting to go a long distance ,I always take my heated jacket liner with me because this jacket is so damn cold .

My Belstaff [ BMG ] jacket cost less than half the price of the Santiago and is a much more versatile jacket ,quality of material and manufacture is on a par with the Santiago .

I still haven't found the perfect jacket ,but for me it would have to have a waterproof outer shell[ like the Belstaff ] ,four simple outside pockets with flap tops , two zippered inner pockets , soft material [like the Santiago ] ,no bloody velcro , a liner that can be worn as a casual jacket , conservative styling that didn't make me look like an out of work circus clown and not have the makers name plastered all over it .

Not too much to ask for - is it ?:confused1:

PS I wish Barbour would make a modern bike jacket .

About gear: Belstaff stinks. All the posh people in Spain wear vintange fashion from them just to walk into the mall. They never will ride a bike but they think they are cool wearing like Lawrence. And probably they are. I am getting old. I prefer bike gear for riding bikes. And posh gear for poshing posh girls?

About to generalize. As Motorreiter said, the people who do that stink. I include myself in the stinky mud. I am always stinking and hating that kind of people who buy bikes just to go to the mall. I am wrong. I should love them because they feed the second hand market with the bike s I ride to Hell. I am sure if you pick one of those guys and talk to him, sure is going to be a good father or a better mate. But, who in the hell wants to waste time knowing people who ride to the mall? I do not, but I am the wrong guy who likes to ride crazy and almost nude (or nude at all).

[quote=Miquel-Silvestre;264527]About gear: Belstaff stinks.


Oh Really !:nono::nono:
Maybe the fashion Belstaff stuff stinks ,but what serious rider is going to wear that anyway ?

Look at Motorcycle Jacket | Scooter Jacket for the real motorcycle jackets .:mchappy:

I still love the look of the old Belstaffs, especially the TrialMaster. But I don't like the waxed cotton material. There was a version made with nylon or something, but I found the price was ridiculous, and without ventilation, it wasnt realistic, cos the material didnt breathe. I saw one in a boot sale recently and would have bought it, but the guy wanted stupid money.

I wish Belstaff (now Italian owned I think) would cash in on a good name before it's too late. But they'll have to abandon the mad money thats asked for bike jackets.:eek3:They should be shot for the prices they ask for waxed cotton.

I think they sponsored our two BMW stars on the Wrong Way Down, and I resent paying for a jacket whose manufacturer paid rich people to advertise it. We all pay that in the end, and I don't like it.:nono:

Hi all
First post on this site so please be gentle.
There has been a number of opinions regarding the most suitable make and style of clothing most suited for all round riding. I would like you honest opinion on which you feel warrants my money Rukka or Hein Gerricke. I am looking to purchase a jacket and trouser for all year use including initially commuting through the winter in the UK.

I am looking at spending approx £800 on the lot. I have bought cheap in the past and found it ok for the cafe run, but not for everyday use. The price is a lot more than I would like to spend, but I am interested in buy something that will last for years and therefore will hopefully get my monies worth.
Thanks in advance
Welshstrome

2 years later...
 

Wow! I did not expect so many posts. I put this thread on when I was on the road and felt really angry about the gear but also, mainly, at BMW attitude.

When we came back (in May 2008), I sent the boots to BMW and they admitted they were faulty. I got a refund and got myself Altberg boots.
As for the suits: zips are not improved but at home and using my trusted sewing machine I fixed few seems and "waxed" the zips so that they do not come stuck.

I still use the jacket, I like the vents and the fact the gore-tex liner is removable. It makes it a very good light summer jacket. ANd the gore-tex liner is totally waterproof, I never got wet with it. So hat off for that.

One thing I want to stress is that being a woman, when I came to look for a MC adventure suit, the choice was EXTREMELY limited. First, most makers can't make trousers than fit women's shapes. Hein Gericke is good, but in the Women's range they seem obsessed with black leather. Sorry chaps but I'm not into bonding gear! Especially when it comes to a 1 year MC trip! The Touareg suit for example, is very good, but comes only in men sizes.

BMW did most of their suits in Men and Women sizes, so I went for it, because, unlike most other ranges, it fitted! Not because I am a "fashion victim" and like to show off in an expensive (but discounted!) suit, but because it was the only suit I found fitted me and was adapted to all weathers.

I do have Hein gericke gear (among others, and in leather of course!) , but it was not suitable to an overland trip like my santiago suit. None of my gear at the time was. Most was adapted to the british weather. I would have died of heat in Brazil with those suits!

SO will I use that BMW suit again for my next big adventure? Maybe the jacket, if I don't have more trouble with the zips.

Unless HG decide to make a good women suit like Touareg or something like that. Or unless I find something nice that fit and I like and will buy because I want it!
In any case, enjoy your rides guys! x

I don't mean to necro-bump this thread, but after reading every post in it I really want to see how the complaint letter to BMW was concluded.

Maria: you mentioned they admitted the boots were faulty, and you kept the jacket. But what about your complaint towards the dealership you had to deal with? And how was the whole complaint process handled? Who did you contact and what were they like to deal with?

Thanks!

I replied earlier in this thread about the quality of my RP3 suit and after 80K miles it is still going strong!! A few more bumps and drops with the bike, and the only thing wrong is that the blue color is fading a bit but I live in South Florida and the sun is brutal on any clothing. I am still dismayed at the OP's (Maria) bad experience and am interested what BMW had to say about her experience....

I also have an issue with BMW linings,also the zip on my Boulder jacket broke after 3 mths,and BMW said they no longer accepted returns and i must get it repaired myself.My Santiago suit is just fine after 31000 miles.
The quality is no longer there in the new gear and i would not buy any more.

Hi LEgo,

I did not contact them to complain about incompetent work on my bike in South america or at Vines in Guilford. I sold my bike, AListair sold his and got ourselves 2 new bikes. Obviously not BMWs! We won't buy any again. That simple. They lost 2 good customers.

During our trip we were in contact with a guy in the uk who was processing complaints but I did not keep his email, and it was 2 years ago.

I have a BMW Santiago suit (not the boots) and I love it. I am not an overland traveler like a lot of you. I admit it is not the perfect suit but I have yet to find one that is. I like a lot of the same qualities that Dodger noted previously. It is a cool suit and below 40F I need a heated jacket. Also the tab snaps on the pants liners ripped but I have have since repaired them myself. The suit is not perfect but it is the closest I have found and it is very versatile.

jealous. ...
 

I have been writing for 30 years on and on and many type of suit jackets and suits . BMW suit has being absolutely the best suit I ever owned in all kind of the weather even into a hundred degrees heat outside is absolutely worth the money , its expensive maybe should be a little cheaper but there's a lot of people saying something bad about it just because they can afford one, if they could , they would love it just like everybody else they have one pretty much I enjoyed them very much.
In fact, I am about to buy a new one, around $1, 500 last one is 3 years old, still great shap. Hey, my wife spend almost that much every year in hair and make up! Why shouldn't I treat myself to something nice !!!
Cheers!

Seriously?
I did 3 years with a 150€ jacket so why should I pay ten times the price just to have the BMW logo on it... And yes, I could afford it, but I don't want to. The diffence in price is one month of traveling.
Don't generalize please... not everybody loves this or hates that.

Interesting thread. Although I don't do globetrotting on a grand scale, I do get about a bit in Europe on my 650 twin Beemer, and have been so impressed with it, thought that perhaps their riding gear might be good as well. It would appear all is not well.

I have looked at their stuff in the local dealer showroom. Having been in the rag trade some years ago, i'm pretty good at examining products in terms of quality assessment, and although the material used should perform, the construction of the garments I looked at appears built to a price and not a quality, which surprised me. They are (IMHO) far too complex design wise. The more zips and pockets, the more press studs etc, in other words the more holes you put into the material the greater the chance of water ingress and stress deterioration. Can't comment about boots, the only ones I've found that do a reasonable job are some cheap ''pro rider'' boots I bought on line.

I've had my Rukka jacket for over 10 years now, and although a bit grubby is still in as good condition as it was when new. It's a very simple design with minimal seams, all the zips and press stud work, the material is excellent, and the build quality is faultless. It's also still waterproof (Goretex). They are not expensive when you amortize the initial cost over such a long period of use.

I buy most of my clothing slightly used as there is plenty on ebay and I have been using BMW gear for the last few years. I have a Rallye Pro 2 suit for the Summer and I doubt there is a cooler jacket for hot climes.
For the Winter I have a Steetguard 2 suit.
I think both suits are brilliant but I could never justify paying the full cost, although I could afford it.