Kit review post a big off
 

Had a massive off in Spain a while back. Freak wind blast and in hindsight over laden bike = super exciting tank slapper. As luck would have it we were relatively ok but in need of some hospital attention and a ride home. In a nutshell have the following interesting info;

Me. Klim Dakar Pants... Absolute nails. Took the slide at circa 85mph incredibly well. So impressed went and bought another pair immediately. And a klim jacket. Don't plan on a repeat but if it happens then I want to be in Klim!

Me. Fieldshear jacket US brand with mesh panels. Average at best. Survived but didn't take the brunt of the spill. Wouldn't have wanted it to be first point of contact. Won't be buying again.

Her. Dainese mesh jacket and pants. Literally fell apart at the seams. Nothing left. A total disgrace. We both accept mesh kit won't offer the same degree of protection as leathers but bet there's plenty of others out there who expect some! Dainese stance was quite literally "it's not designed to withstand that kind of impact so we aren't responsible". Neither of us will ever touch Dainese again.

The Bike. A DL1000... Took us 2 up off piste through the high atless. absolutely faultless. Fortunately nominal damage in high side due to crash bars and panniers.

Insurance. With Carole Nash. Was diabolical shambles. Essentially left stranded in Spain untill attacking directly via twitter. Even then it was only the acrions of a sole individual that sorted us out. The organisation couldn't give a monkeys.

Any other info gladly shared...

Glad you two came out fairly OK. :thumbup1: You crashed at 85 mph off road on a Vstrom riding two up? Man, are you a former Dakar Racer? :rofl:

I rode former '02 DL1000 90K miles. Rode on and off road in Baja, mainland Mexico, western USA and BC, Canada and all of California numerous times.

Tipped over a few times off road, no major crashes ... but the Strom is not a bike meant to crash well :helpsmilie: ... you are VERY lucky, IMHO, that you, girlfriend and your Strom came through OK. :thumbup1:

Most of the top brands should give decent abrasion protection. IMO, the important factor is ARMOR worn under. Most built in Armor provides only cursory protection and is often OUT OF POSITION upon impact.

For years I've worn dirt bike style knee armor worn under my riding pants, either leathers or ADV type pants or light dirt bike pants for super hot weather. The armor to protect knees and hips goes under.

Up top I usually supplement back protection with better foam pad or a bespoke back protector. I also wear dirt bike style elbow guards as built in ones are rarely in proper position in a fall unless you jacket fits super snug. (I don't like tight fitting gear)

But even the best gear won't save you if you hit something solid or wham into an Armco barrier like I did and have your leg trapped between bike and
guard rail. Not good. Titanium plate to prove it.

Sliding down the road I've seen several top brands jackets and pants get shredded. Yes, even Rukka! (Aerostich being some of the toughest, with MotoPort right up there too)

Custom MotoPort gear, IMO, has the best protection of any gear I've seen. Custom made in So Cal.

Dainese, IMO, make some excellent gear. But many Mesh jackets will come apart in a good slide and tumble. I have a Rev' It Mesh, not crashed it but assume it will come apart. The good news is the Rev'It has good built in armor which is actually in the right place for me! (rare) But would not want to slide down pavement at 85 mph in that Mesh.

I have some nice hot weather ADV pants from Cycle Gear (in house Sedici Arturo brand) which are some of the best I've seen for the money. ($120 USD)
These pants aren't fully mesh and seem well built with just a few Mesh panels.

The KLIM gear is above average, but, IMO, way overpriced for Made In China gear. Like most riding gear, KLIM is ALL made in China. Exception is Aerostich and Motoport ...(even some Aerostich is made in China)

But IMO, brands like First Gear, Tourmaster, Alpinestar and Joe Rocket are not far off KLIM and are HUNDREDS of dollars less ... and ALL made in China. I can afford ANY jacket but ride in my trusty First Gear, my 2nd one. Fallen off many times off road. No damage to me or the jacket. Also own Alpinestar and Joe Rocket, owned Tour Master in the past.

Fieldsheer (originally a UK brand) is now a rather low budget brand, does not sell well (not promoted much)... so you see it at Fire Sale prices. Sorry to hear it let you down.

My point (finally! doh) is you don't have to spend $1200 USD on a KLIM jacket to get good protection if you supplement your outfit with proper armor UNDER jacket and pants.

That is "where the human flesh meets the road". It's often that initial impact with the ground or something solid that breaks bones or damages internal organs ... as painful as Road Rash is, broken bones are worse.

Armor can save your life in a big hit. At that point the Kevlar-Cordura does not
matter that much. bier

+1 for the dakar over the boot pants.

I have been very satisfied riding in Africa with the dakar pants, dakar jacket. When offroading at high temperature ( 35c -42c) , I was wearing the mojave jersey and the dakar jacket without the arms. I was also wearing body armors under the jacket and pants.

The dainese armor protection is very confortable.

Patrick

Glad your both ok.

Good on you Carol Nash should be ashamed of themselves hopefully we will all consider this when taking out or renewing bike insurance

This is not the first time I've heard negative things about Carol Nash. I'd be interested to turn this side of the original post on its head: has anyone needed assistance and been looked after really well with an insurer? If Carol Nash aren't great, who is better?

glad you are both ok - how about a mention of the boots, gloves, helmets and armor - be well! ... Michael

Equipment review or Insurance experience??
 

Carole Nash are merely a broker - the "middle man" type of business that has sprung up in the UK.
Shame doesn't enter into the business model.


There is a sticky thread from a few years ago that brings together some experiences of UK vehicle insurance.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...eriences-63707
Nowadays, it tends to be buried among many other sticky threads in that section of the HUBB.

Insurance ... how things change!
 

Insurance in UK reminds of a story told me by one of the Monroe brothers in San Francisco. I spent many a pleasant hour at their shop, a Triumph, Ducati dealer (and several other bikes over the years, including CCM!)

Pat Monroe tells the story of the trip he and his brother made to the UK in the mid 1960's.

Business at their shop was booming, so the two thrifty Irishmen decided to splurge (a very RARE thing for these two Master Cheapskates)

They had arranged with the Triumph factory (Meriden in those years) to buy two new bike's at dealer's special wholesale price. Plan was to ride around for a month, then ship them home.

So they pick the bikes up at local dealer in London and when doing the paper work, Jim Monroe (the smarter brother) asks about insurance.

The manager gives them a quizzical look "Insurance?", he says "There is no insurance for bikes." :eek3:

For all I know, maybe you lot didn't have it for cars back then either? But good things come to those who wait!

Point is:
Seems UK insurers have learned the evil ways of grave robbing that USA insurance companies have perfected since the 1930s.

Now, in USA, insurance is required by law and you can't register your bike without proof of insurance. (in most US states)

Hearing the Monroe's story was a shock at the time (mid 1980's) ... NO INSURANCE! It DID NOT exist
(at least not for motorcycles). Both Monroe brothers both have now transitioned to higher ground. RIP, Jim and Pat.

I insured my Triumph with Bennett's when in UK (2003) but no claims made. After I sold it I cancelled remaining policy (had 9 months left on it) ... and they mistakenly PAID MY REFUND TWICE! bier

First time I hit the road on two wheels was '67 and there certainly was a need for bike insurance then. I can still remember the pain of paying for it out of my 50p a week Saturday job (no minimum wage back then :rofl:).

I suspect the dealer's response was more engineered towards an easy life than strict conformity with the law (i.e. - two foreigners, I'll fob 'em off, they'll believe anything). It's always been possible to register new vehicles here without insurance - the two processes are not connected, so the bikes could easily be sitting there with number plates and ready to go without any insurance co involvement.

As for current insurance 'practice' ..... :censored: I'm right in the middle of insurance renewal season and every single renewal letter / email that's come in has used the 'inertia quote' approach. I did the house insurance a few days ago and the 'valued long time customer' quote was twice as much as the same policy from the same company as new business. Presumably it must work or they wouldn't do it but I've long wondered about the 'ethics' of an industry that works by a combination of fear, ignorance and inertia.

This is merely a failure to properly translate the dealer's comment. What he meant was "I don't have to deal with your insurance in order to sell you a bike." This is very different from "There's no insurance," or even "Insurance is not mandatory."

I've heard similar in the US in several states where, at least at the time, registration was independent of insurance. Here in Washington I can register any vehicle I want without insuring it, but if I venture out onto a public road and am caught without proof of insurance all sorts of dire consequences ensue. Back in Massachusetts, the registration document itself was filled out by the insurer, in their office--you then took their documentation to the state office to pay, record your registration, and receive your plates. But as far as I remember, dealers themselves bore no responsibility for this part.

What was the topic again? Oh: reviewing equipment.

Mark

I guess you were in the UK in 1965? So you know what the policy for insurance was for motorbikes back then? The point of the story ... from what I heard, was that insurance companies at that time in UK, did not cover motorcycles. !!!

I have NO IDEA if that is factual, but that's how Jim Monroe communicated the story.

Apparently the brothers went into an insurance office on the high street to verify and were told the company did not offer insurance for bikes and insurance was not required by any law at that time and ... point was, no one bothered with it. Go figure doh Remember, 1965.

I'm well aware how various states may require proof of insurance and some not. In California it was a ON/OFF battle for years.

So, you could register your bike without having to prove insurance. Yes, of course you'd be in big trouble if you had an accident without it, but our DMV did not require proof, nor did Police if you were pulled over.

All changed now ... yet legally, you always were supposed to have insurance! (WEIRD!)

For about 20 years now it's the law here and you have to have insurance to register any vehicle and must show proof of insurance to Police if pulled over.

When I was in UK riding a bike I bought there (2003), all I had to prove it was mine was the "Log Book". No annual registration card, and the log book did not even have my name on it. I have a feeling that all may have changed by now?
Bike had a tax disc on it, guess that was all that was required.

I was also fascinated by the UK driver's license. A funky little piece of paper that was hardly legible. Tiny print, thin paper. My friend never even carried his with him! He said no one did! In the US they might shoot you for not having I.D.! :smartass:

Mollydog - Thanks for the feedback and so sorry I never responded. I'm afraid I didn't see a notification re your post. Only noticed it today as back on board for some trip planning (I've been a member years but am not a frequent user).

As for our tumble - we were on road not off so that explains the 85mph :)

As you say - extremely fortunate to both be ok.

Point taken re kit and point of manufacture. Maybe I'm all starry eyed over Klim due to circumstance. But theres nothing like sliding down the road on something and escaping unscathed to cement your faith in something! there also Klims replacement policy...

I am very much in favour of underdog brands and budget options but in Kilms case I just feel its worth a few quid.

Apologies for very slow response - per my reply to Mollydog I kinda abandoned this post. But incase you're still here, detail below and apologies again for my poor posting!

Me:

Boots - were (are - I'm still riding in them) TCX gortex adventure style (like cheap Sidi rain)! Held up and stayed on no probs.

Gloves - thin Klim leather short summer style gloves (sorry dont have name to hand) one seam popped but otherwise all ok. Replaced with a matching pair.

Helmet - Spada MX style lid with goggles (personal pref for long journeys). Budget and took a whack but my sweed was fine! Replaced with same.

Here:

Boots, Gloves - Rukka - slide damage but held up. replaced due to wear but no complaints - they did their job well.

Helmet - Shoei - great protection, tiny mark after impact, replaced for safety but looked as if nothing had happened.

Bradden
Sorry to say that Patrick aka Mollydog died December 3 2018 of pancreatic cancer.
Hence the R.I.P

If I was going to use vented tops and bottoms it would most likely be from knox . The dianese kit u were using , I'm going to guess that it's ce cert is plus only . Alot of textile kit struggles to obtain an A rating some manage AA , its abrasion resistance will always be less then leather but its rip resistance will be higher .
My astar top is only A cert but upgraded by level 2 shoulder , elbow and chest armour .
We stock alot of manufacturers where I work and have just taken on a certain Dutch brand too.........if anyone wants an impartial opinion on something they are looking at buying they can always pm me .
Current fave jacket is the new version of the astar Bogota
Level 2 armour , excellent vents and a clever inner wproof liner.......goes inside or out , bit like triumph used to do and the price is a steal..........not an advert but well worth a look if u don't have Klim money