collapsible gas can
 

Help, where can I find a 1+ gal
collapsible gas can for touring.I have seen them on the internet but now can't find it now.
thanks david

David, re collapsable gas can,suggest 10L MSR dromedary bags. Last I checked they are impervious to petrochem. I have used gallon milk jugs in a pinch and they start a nice fire when empty. Al Jesse sells a unique water gas container ,which is 2.5 inches thick and fits inside most hard bags. Hope this helps. Bill

moonbmwr,
I am intrigued by your suggested use of the MSR dromedary for fuel. Has anybody actually tried this? Will the bag hold up even after months filled with fuel? Anyone who has tried this, please let me know.
Thanks Johan

I was going to place two 1/2 gallon Nalgine (sp?) "square-ish" hard plastic (water) container in my Tank panniers (RKA or Aerostich)... they are very durable, but I have never tried them with petrol, has anyone else had any experiance with these hard plastic (clear and white) containers?

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John

OK. I have finally got around to doing my own testing. I bought the 4 liter MSR DromeLight and filled it with fuel and left it in my bathtub to see if it holds up over time. The plan is to leave it there for 2 months or so and then do a complete autopsy, cutting it open to check for any disintegration of the bladder lining etc.

I immediately noticed a problem. The bag if fine but the cap is leaking slightly. The big main cap is fine but it is the smaller "drinking" cap which is on the main cap that is not up to the job. I have checked the MSR site, but they don't offer any other caps without this “feature”. I will attempt to seal the small cap myself and continue the experiment.

I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.

[This message has been edited by rodskogj (edited 17 February 2002).]

I guess smoking in the bathroom is hazardous for your health http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/ubb/smile.gif

I'm curieus for your test-result. Good plan to test it this way!

Maarten

Day 18 of the test. Time for a status update.

I filled about 3 liters of unleaded into the 4 liter MSR DromeLight, covered it in baby-powder so I could spot any leaks immediately, and hung it upside-down so the filler cap is pointing straight down.

So far so good. The baby-powder is still dry and no signs of any leakage, even around the filler cap. The MSR is in great shape and there are no signs of any degradation of the materials. The one thing I noticed from day one though was the gasoline smell in the bathroom. There seems to be a small amount of vapors escaping, but not enough to cause a fire hazard (I hope). After about 7-10 days the MSR really started to expand and now resembles an inflated balloon. I imagine that bouncing around on the road and hot weather would speed up the ballooning effect significantly as well. Even with the ballooning, the MSR seems do hold up well and even withstands slapping around and squeezing. At the end of the test I will do repeated drop tests to check impact resistance of the MSR in this ballooned state.

My initial thoughts are that the MSR should work well as a temporary solution if you transfer the fuel to your main tank as soon as there is room. Venting the MSR daily on the road by briefly opening the cap will probably buy you more time as well. But extreme heat or violent shaking could be a problem.

Stay tuned for more updates!

Johan Rodskog
www.rodskog.com

I would be very wary of putting gas in anything not designed for it. Take a look at this site which I found on the Ironbutt website

http://www.fuelsafe.com/main.html

Regards,

John



[This message has been edited by JohnA (edited 21 June 2002).]

I owe you guys an update on the improvised MSR gas can...

After two months the MSR has held up extremely well. It balloons up and shrinks down with the temperature, but will not leak. At the end of the test I had it outside for a few days in direct sunlight and very warm weather. After that I tossed it up in the air several times and it landed onto a concrete floor. It took this punishment extremely well with no ruptures and no signs of any damage.

Next was the autopsy stage: After a little over 2 months there was actually only 2 liters of fuel left in it. The rest had not seeped out, but evaporated directly (hence the smell in my bathroom!) I cut it open and carefully checked the liner and the seams. All was as good as new with no signs of breakdown or 'stickiness' from the fuel.

Conclusion: A fair amount of fuel did evaporate making it a less than ideal solution, but it did not burst even under severe punishment. If you plan on using it for a short period of time (a few days to a week) and top off your gas tank as soon as there is room you should have no problems at all. The good thing about this ‘bladder’ solution rather than a jerry can or fuel-cell is space. When not used it takes virtually no space at all. I plan to bring a few of these with me on my upcoming trip for the long stretches.

Best of luck!

Thanks for this test.

Maarten

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- www.maartensworld.tmfweb.nl -

rodskogj -

Thanks for trying that out... I'm going to use this method going through Chile this year, using the gas container only for 1-2 week sections where I think I might have problems. I might put some duct tape around the outside to add some more strength (what do you think about that?) I'll let you know how it goes for me.

rndmtim,
I don't think duct tape is necessary. The MSR proved increadibly strong, but perhaps a little extra protection couldn't hurt... I don't think the duct tape will do anything for the vapors though, they are just a fact of life (after all, that is why your bike has a venting hose!)

Good luck with your trip!

Duct tape and gas just makes a big gooey mess ...

Hi All,
Just read through this topic with interest.

I'm surprised no one has made further comment on JohnA's word of warning.

Strangely enough many years ago now I saw photographs of a guy (military personnel) who'd come off his motorbike while carrying extra petrol in a makeshift container. I guess he was unlucky that the fuel ignited but that's what happened anyway. The images were most gruesome!

I assure you that this is true and I was shown the photographs while on a fire fighting course as part of my training in the Royal Air Force. The military never shy away from showing the most unpleasant of things to their recruits, as any ex-serviceman will tell you!

My brother has got a couple of unbelievable stories about people torching themselves (by accident of course!) while in the Army. But that's the army for you..... can't expect any better really ;-)

Anyway I'm not out to preach. Just thought I'd pass on a life experience (starting to sound like my Dad now!)

Safe biking,
Paul

I've bought two of the 10 liter bags Dromedary bags for my trip to Alaska. I'm hoping to not use them, after carefully checking the Milepost. I'm also trying to find a replacement to fit the caps (I've got the ones with the pur spouts) - I've tried them with water mounted on the bike, and they seem ok with water, but if the level or pressure is too high they can slosh or drip, especially if they sit flat. Not a good risk unless I can get better caps. The seal around the cap seems tight though.

I know this is not the smartest idea, especially on a permanent basis. Liquid gas is not as flammable as most people think even though it burns very hot. The main risk is the fuel vapor. A full container is actually safer than a partially full container because there is less air for the fuel to vaporize in (that's what can be set off by a spark). I'm looking at something like these bags as purely a temporary stopgap for areas that are really remote where there is no other way - the last couple of hundred of miles towards Prudoe Bay in Alaska, or in northern Chile, for example. On the other hand, if you've already decided that riding alone on a gravel road with a steep dropoff with heavy trucks is an acceptable risk...

I don't think these are actually a much worse idea than a red jerry can, provided they are hung upright with the opening over the level of the gas, and no where and not above the exhaust or engine. The alternative mentioned above is many hundreds of $$.

[This message has been edited by rndmtim (edited 27 July 2002).]

The MSR Dromedary bag uses the same thread pitch and diameter opening as Nalgene widemouth bottles.

This means that you can replace that three-way Dromedary bag lid with the single piece lid from a 32 ounce Nalgene watter bottle.

You want the lid for this bottle:
http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce...grfnbr=5760748

Your REI store may also stock just the lids for ~$1.00.

Have fun!

<snip>
Not a good risk unless I can get better caps. The seal around the cap seems tight though.

...one more point, Nalgene's primary business is providing containers for labs so these lids are water (fuel) proof and should be impervious to gasoline just like the MSR lid.


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jim
seattle
r 100 gs

Heheheh...

Well it seems that when you put a Nalgene lid on a Dromedary 10 liter bag and fill it with gas, a good liquid seal is not going to be a problem. The gas welds the parts together after a night. This came as a rather unpleasant surprise to me in a snowstorm on the Dalton highway, about 120 miles from the Arctic Ocean. Using a small screwdriver I managed to pry the lid off the plastic threads of the bag, and neither seemed to sustain much damage, and were usable again for the return trip... but these probably are not going to work many more times, as I imagine the bag's threads are slightly damaged each time. A metal lid might be better, if anyone knows of something with similar threads... or maybe some kind of powder between them, but then the lid might not seal perfectly.

Also, I eventually realized that I should put the 2 10 liter bags inside the aluminum touratech cases, because anywhere outside risked catastrophic spillage in a crash (which I had, in 3 inches of snow, with calcium choride over mud...) and the lower they were, the less the slosh factor would screw up my balance and steering.

After the mild tossup, I was glad that they were inside the case - but the case itself reeked of gas, and the sleeping bag I had inside a waterproof bag buniged to the top of the metal case also smelled of gas for about a day (no liquid gas ever escaped but the fumes did.)

I've washed the bags and the box out, and hope to keep the Dromedary bags for use again later - I'm putting them in a plastic bag under my tools, and hopefully I can keep everything from reeking of gasoline along the way.

MSR Dromedary fuel can results?
 

It has been some years and no doubt some miles since first you tested using MSR Dromlite bags to carry fuel in. Between the leaky cap issue and the ever-escaping fumes, the slosh factor and the danger of carrying them on the outside should you crash, what's your latest opinion of using the bags for carrying spare fuel?

http://www.turtlepac.com/petroldetails.htm

They work very well

regarding evaporation through the MSR bags, this is to be expected, I remember the police for forensic samples used plastic bags, but if any accellerant from fire scenes or petroleum based liquids were to be sampled, the bags used were nylon, the fluid did not evaporate through them.

Poor man’s solution that works well on an as-needed basis. Fill two large water or soda (get the sugar out!) bottles with fuel. Place in a bag; a couple of large plastic shopping bags will do.

Secure “fuel bag” somewhere on bike with a bungee between the bottles, atop the center of the bag. They’ll stay put just fine with a tight bag & bungee.

With two of the largest bottles you can get about 1.5 gallons of fuel, which is adequate for a bike with a large (e.g. 5.8 gallon) tank traveling anywhere except the most remote locations. More than enough for anywhere in the Americas … unless of course you’re doing extended off road like the Transamerica Trail or old roads in the Rockies.

Back to civilization – look for recycling bin for plastic bottles. Voila.

I use Ortlieb bags with the same Nalgene lid. I did much the same testing, but I think the fuel-bag footie after months in the sun and rain may have been a little brutal! didn't notice any vapour seepage until it ended up in the rose bed and wept through the thorn hole. we used them for a few fill ups and prefer them to bottles as they are properly collapsible. I'd stay clear of further mods like duct tape cos its adding uncertainty rather than managing risk - what might the glue do to attack the bag?

Collapsable Jerrican
 

I found this site www.turtlepac.com and they do a 20l colapsible jerrican that seems to be very handy for bike travels. folded up it measures 100mm x 550mm. They drop one of their bigger bladders from a helicopter without any damage. I haven't seen one in person, nor have I met any bikers using this bladder, but if it's up to scratch and the price is right, it will be very handy to get one.

Have a look here Gas-O-Haul Emergency Gas Container - Each - Genuine Hotrod Hardware

Wow!
 

Wow brilliant stuff! Tempted top get a couple! Do you use them ?

I am curious as to what range is need for these trips?
on my own bike I can now guarantee 320km before needing reserve. ( it was 280km before i changed the needles and needle jets) bike 1985 bmw r80rt not noted for being frugal. I do often carry a spare gallon can in one of the panniers, strangely seldom on camping trips because I then need the space for other stuff.

colapsible fuel tank
 

Check out this site, <duramproducts.com,au> Go to containers and scope down. I was looking for a 5 gal container for my aircraft. Their containers are designed to hold volatile fuel.

Collapsible 20 LITRE jerrycan