Never knew they took stiffeners but now we know ;-)

thanks

Chris, you mention about squeezing air out on your last post. It's one of my bugbears about any waterproof roll top luggage, I always seem to get air trapped inside, admittedly more with my roll top bag than my Enduristan panniers.

To get round this I've put in a Boston valve as used in inflatable boats.

http://www.bluewatersports.com/shop/...ton_valve2.jpg

I just melted a hole the right size with a soldering iron and screwed the two parts together, no glue needed. OK so the valve is designed to keep air in, but a push on the central core lets air out as you squeeze the bag.

The other perk when installed in a roll top bag is that you can use it as a pillow, just trap air in as you close the bag and then let the correct amount out for you as you lay your weary head upon it. I've even blown extra air in my bag, stood it on end and used it as a rudimentary stool.

I was initially hopeful for this thread finally be one that doesn't end in a chat about security, resulting in people being put off by it and flee back to panniers and leaving development to too few individuals. Sadly it only lasted 1 page.

I can't imagine a local bloke at a remote waterfall, most likely selling crap, walking off with two 35l bags parked in sight of lots of people. It would take a little while before he would figure out where the straps are in any case. They would need to have knifes to cut through the bag itself to snatch at least something that might be of value (most likely nothing sadly for him). If they are there waiting for tourists they are predators and not opportunists. Good luck with any type of luggage then. There are threads on here of stolen helmets which i think were chain locked to the bike at the Iguazú Falls in Argentina. Lock your car would really be it. No car = no locking space = no solution= find other ways.

In a town, say to walk around a bazar, I already alluded to ways to solve this. In developing countries there would only be a hand full along your entire route that warrant a detailed look. Surely spending 10 minutes to figure out how to deal would this would result in a satisfactory solution. In reality, to me anyway, population centres in developing countries are not places for sightseeing. Not like in Europe anyway. So spending lots of $$ to try and solve rather than spending more time on it (there or during the planning) like staying a night and doing some laundry, having a shower would be an easier cheaper solution. If you're a backpacker you wouldn't expect to be able to drop your bag at the entrance somewhere and expect it to still be there when you get back. A bike is not a secure facility that would change this. So we shouldn't think or expect it should be any different with one, I think.

In either case going with hard panniers would not be an example of a satisfactory solution. I say this with the aim of trying to put the inexperienced reader at ease. A bloke with an evil streak going to the bazar for some onions in his lada would easily break in to your metal mule with his screw driver that he keeps in his glove box to wind down his windows.
I don't know the details of the ferry theft, but I don't believe panniers would stop that theft either (understanding that you're not suggesting this or promoting panniers at all). Not by a crew. Only taking your stuff with you would. Going light, small and most importantly SOFT would only be a benefit in every way here. All these tree will help in all facets of you enjoyment. Security up front for the reason just stated.

Small = light = better riding performance = good security = :funmeteryes:.

The soft one (trying to go back on topic here) would be easy to realise. Plenty of options. The small is the tricky one. Most people take too much including myself on 2 occasions. i rarely if ever see people with just the panniers filled up. There is usually a soft bag somewhere. So much for the security argument from the hard luggage perspective. I now try to have about as much with me when I go backpacking with maybe some more camping stuff. And then I want to be able to take it off in seconds and make sure it's all together in a single item and light enough to carry somewhere, preferably over the shoulder. To me the GL design is the only gear that allows this currently. But the sizing isn't right yet.

You're right in saying any theft is a pain in the arse, but i find this the most with camping gear (tent, bag and mat. Maybe stove). Because the local stuff is rubbish often. But you can still get by with local stuff just fine, so it's mostly a mind set. For the rest I've got mostly clothes with me, looking at my list. Wouldn't really care about that. Electronics are in a tank bag which is a motorbiker's hand bag and stupid to leave anywhere.
I'm planning on a wolfman headlight bag to chuck some roadside foot into. I'm happy to leave it and unlocked.

Because the biggest annoyance is a slashed bag for someone to run off with a pair of dirty undies or jumper. I like the idea of twaron/ kevlar but I'm not convinced in it solving slashing AND it needs a rack in the current design. I much rather see use of the pacsafe eXomesh laminated cordura fabric. The external mesh is just a red rag to a bull. It's difficult to go past the argument of the straps needing to be integrated into the mesh, but to lock them off would need a padlock currently and then you're right back where you started on that. We need some innovation on that.

In the end I always end up, for myself, returning back to the conclusion that on a motorbike, due to the nature of there not being a 'high tech' (I'm referring to car locking technology) lockable cabin, security is a myth that we're just turning around in circles with, to develop all these heavy measures like panniers to put our minds at ease. Giving up way to much in the process.

UNLESS we move past and abandon the use of ali pannier and sentence them to the history books and progress along a path on innovation to come up with a decent solution. I think we're close myself.

New Wolfman panniers seem a decent size. Wolfman Motorcycle Luggage: Rocky Mountain Saddle Bags Problem remains of straps over the seats when riding two up. Like to see a set on an 11XX GS even so.

have you tried putting the straps under the seat?

I have done this for my last two bikes, not so much for pillion comfort (I never carry pillions, I cut the pegs off so I can't), but for added safety, the panniers cannot be lifted off.

Are there many bikes that cannot fit the straps underneath the saddle?

No I haven't. They are on my short list to buy, and of course there is a rack under the pillion seat on my 1100GS which would be ideal to strap across, but it looks like the front strap would be fouled by both the seat overhang and possibly the catch. There is an adaptor plate by Windingroads to do away with the need to strap across the bike but it is extra complication.

If I'm travelling, I'm nearly always two up on this bike which is why I need the space and also need to keep the pillion seat on the bike. If I was anywhere near a dealer I'd take the bike down to try 'em out.

Bags with buckles
 

Hello!

Since you are talking about soft bags and I don't want to open a new thread I will just ask here if it is ok. Tommorow I am setting of on a 3day trip with revised packing list to give it a try. But there is a slight concern. Do you people trust the plastic buckles on the soft bags?

My bags secure to the seat base plate with 2 buckles each of the panniers. But this year they are a bit heavier than last year as I also have some tools with me and more clothes. I am affraid that these buckles will give up on any rough surfaces. Here is the picture of the buckels:
http://shrani.si/t/1i/N2/1RyGLMVY/img37071.jpg

I have also secured them to the racks with 1 cargo net and 1 bungee cord per bag.
http://shrani.si/t/20/5x/2PqXLWAB/img37081.jpg

Thanks for help and sory for hijack!

In my opinion the elastic bungy and cargo net will have little effect in keeping your bag in place. Elastics are more useful to temporarily hold down light things like gloves or maps.

If you don't trust the pannier clip buckles to take the weight (and I can see why you would think this) back it up with a cam lock strap or even just a belt. Done up tight that will help pull the weight against the rack and take the stress off the clip buckle.

Ch

I have a lot of Kriega gear. Probably enough that I should go to meetings about it.

I took a very long look at the Overlander setup - and then bought a set of Magadans. I'm pretty happy it was the right choice for me.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...30552935_n.jpg

(I'm less happy that I only got to use them for a week and a half of my trip because I broke the bike they were attached to, but that's another story)

I would just add to get really good quality cam operated straps; I've had one of the cams fall apart in my hands when put under tension and another one became slack very quickly, far more quickly than I anticipated (I was checking the luggage pretty frequently) - the slack one became so slack that it rubbed on the rear tyre and disintegrated before I found it.

Whatever I use, carry a couple of spare is my rule of thumb.

Some people do rate "Rok straps" for bungie type straps - they might be worth considering?

Out of interest who makes those? It's an idea I've had for a while to have panniers which could clip on to a harness which could remain strapped to the bike.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will sure get some cam straps. I allready have ROK Straps, but only 2 to secure the tent to the rear rack.

Those are made by Moto Detail and sold by Louis - Motorrad & Freizeit - Europas Nr.1 f�r Motorradbekleidung, Motorradhelme und Motorradzubeh�r., here is the new version of my bags, just different grafic style: MOTO-DETAIL GEPAECKSYSTEM - Louis - Motorrad & Freizeit

I will most likely be seeling them(cheaply) in late august if you are interested.

Well, from being a happy Ortlieb saddlebags user, I'm now starting to think that something that is more field repairable would be better.
I had one of the welded seams pull apart in a low load area, possibly from the roll top closing action

It's not feasible to ship them back to Ortlieb for repair in the USA or Germany, so will have to compromise it with glue and stitching...

The dealer (Aerostich in the USA) told me to look up Ortlieb customer service, neither Ortlieb USA or Germany have responded after 4 days...

What types of seam joins do other expedition type systems use?

Sent from my A898 Duo using Tapatalk 2

I don't understand the problem. Can it not be stitched back together? Bit of seam sealer over the stitches and away you go.

Try Aquaseal/Aquasure or SeamSeal (same thing but thinner) - all produced by McNett. Great stuff - can be all-purpose glue or a sealant and just right for smooth PVC.

Ch