Additional lights - necessary or just sexy?
 

I'm hitting the road next year (2015) for a 6 month Switzerland to SE Asia trip. I'm still in the dilemma if having additional headlights on my f650 are really worth the price or really useful where I plan to go. I see so many full equiped big enduro bikes having such additional lights, but are mostly riden by week-end "adventure" riders. I still can't figure out the real added-value of those...

Can anyone bring some light in here?

Very few long term world travelers I've met will willingly ride after dark except in countries around western Europe or the USA. Most countries are just too dangerous after dark. Potholes, rocks, animals, and cars/trucks/tractors driving with no lights at all. Even with good lights those can surprise you easily. I remember only two who deliberately rode at night, one was trying to set a record for how fast he traveled south america, the other rode only the best pristine highways.

I improved the lights on my KLR650 by converting them to HID. I didn't use them for months at a time. I even rode with no headlights at all for a month or two. Worst case? Ride slowly and/or stay just in front of a car with very good headlights.

Forget them. Same with LED bulbs ... you won't find them on the road in rural asia if you need to replace them. Better off spending the money on the trip itself. Or barkbusters, engine guards etc.

Totally agree on the spot lights, just bling for the Charlie's, but an Led bulb in the rear is tougher, longer lasting, uses less power and if it does go can just have a filament lamp popped in in its place.

Andy

I wish I did have extras !
 

I totally agree that most extra lights are bling really but...........

On a recent trip on my vstrom my lights failed completely and I was unable to find the fault at the time. I don't travel at night very much as mentioned above. Day time riding was noticeably different though, I reckon simply due to not having lights on.? I seemed invisible in several countries, particularly Albania! If I had extra bling lights it would have made a difference I'm sure.

I have since my return rewired and re configured my lighting and added some small discreet LED lights ( very cheap) as backup-backup. I added some wire and a small volt meter for fault finding to my tool kit.

So I guess as long as you don't have common, known faults with lights, there is no need. If you have a vstrom then ..........yeah I would !

On my V-strom (which runs twin headlights with no relay because Suzuki are either cheapskates or idiots), I fitted a switch on the bars to kill one light. using an H4 plug and socket to break into the loom at the lamp connector the switch in the off position killed one low beam filament for daylight running. You could turn it on for more light or just switch/unplug in the event of a failure in the one in use.

Plan B on any Wee would be to fit a relay.

Andy

I've been blowing hot and cold on additional lights on bikes since the mid 70's - used them for a few years then not bothered , gone back again for a bit ... and round and round.

I agree with not riding at night in remote areas but there are times when it's just the way things go, and if you have to ride at night at least (decent) additional lights enable you to see the hazards a bit earlier. On some nights (and even on decent roads in Europe) when it's wet you don't get any reflection back and normal bike lights are useless. There have been a couple of occasions with just a stock 35w headlamp where I've been reduced to using the sat-nav to tell me where the bends are rather than seeing them with the lights.

Most of the extra lights I've seen working on bikes tend to be wired to come on with main beam - when you dip they go off. If they have any range (not all small LED ones do) I'm not a great fan of that arrangement. It's great when you light everything up and can see 1/2 mile down the road but as soon as something comes and you have to dip it's becomes hard to see just at the time you're being blinded.

I'm running a couple of small LED lights on my 125 at the moment because the stock lights are genuinely dreadful but the add on lights don't have any defined beam pattern and can't be left on where there's traffic (unlike you like getting flashed) so they're only of any use on back roads. They may not be of much use but at least they're cheap (not something you can say about the car rally lights I used decades ago), so on balance they're worth having. If nothing else they stand in when the main bulbs fail. It beats tying a torch to the handlebars or using my tent light. I ended up camping in someone's front garden once when the tent light was all I had to ride with. I thought I was in the open desert at the time.

Since all the GS/KTM Charlies use them on their trek to ASDA (beware riding on pegs into carpark with height restriction bar... especially with the Tellytubby GoPro on top of the helmet) I don't bother with spots any more :(

I've done the relay thing, 1 for each light, each switch-able. Also left the stock wiring and H4 socket untouched. For the un-likley event both individually fed relays or something fail?? And there is a piece of twin cable threaded through from battery area and coiled up under dash area ready to connect in a hurry if required. Over kill.............I'm scared of the dark :eek3:

Vaguely "humorous" replies were moved to http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...wont-you-79628 in order to keep this thread on topic :scooter:

Well covered. For a f650 l would go with hid main
Light and two small spots no more than 20w ea.

Hid use less watts than stock and 3 times brighter light. You never know when you may end up
Riding at night. Your spots should all be switched so you can shut them off as needed.
Good battery a must, ensure charging system is working properly as F650's tend to over charge.

[QUOTE=backofbeyond;488842]

Most of the extra lights I've seen working on bikes tend to be wired to come on with main beam - when you dip they go off. If they have any range (not all small LED ones do) I'm not a great fan of that arrangement. It's great when you light everything up and can see 1/2 mile down the road but as soon as something comes and you have to dip it's becomes hard to see just at the time you're being blinded.
QUOTE]



That brought back memory's of the sixty's. Had a 250 Super Dream. With a large set of crash bar's fitted. You know the one's. A double loop type. Fitted a couple of all car spot light's on the top bar. Most probley brought at some car boot sale. They all so worked on the main beam. All I had to do with the main wiring was up grade the fuse. The light where not that great to start with. But the extra two spot's transformed my night riding.
John933

Always amusing to read that old adage "never ride at night", especially when it is currently semi-permanently dark north of the arctic circle and we are very close to the shortest day of the year in the whole of the northern hemisphere.

So, "never ride at night" equates to "fair weather rider only" me thinks.

Apart from that, lights enable you to be seen as well as to see: not too shabby a concept given the average car driver in the UK.

In Australia a politician by the name of Brown brought in legislation requiring bikes to have their headlights on all day every day. After quite a few years of this the sats came in .. no improvement. The legislation got repealed. Here on a bright sunny day .. headlights don't help .. in fact I think a black thing is better .. but then that is simply so much hotter than a white thing I don't go there. :thumbdown:

Some people cannot see big red/yellow/white trucks with flashing lights .. nor hear the sirens and horns doh .. most people call them fire engines. The use of a motorcycle headlight might help some of the time, but not all the time.

This is so true. I was just in Mexico ... and the riding days were very short. Some days I'd panic when I looked up and realized the Sun was quickly getting very low in the sky. But after several night stints all was well. I did fine, good HID light really makes a difference on a dark rural road populated with Burros and Horses.

I'd set off at 7am ... but still got caught out nearly everyday. Mountains are especially deceptive. You "think" you can make your destination ... but you've got 100 miles of twisty mountain road to get through. Takes for Bloody EVER.
:rofl:

On my commute to work I know every pot hole and micro-climate. I only ride at night and it's not a problem.


When I head off into the Alps or Scandanavia at this time of year I have 6-8 hours of twilight, plus any additional time I can add using lit main roads. Sure, there is the risk of something not going to plan and one solution being to ride unlit, ice covered, tree lined back roads in the dark. Until they let me use the see-in-the-dark kit the military have, I'll usually try and avoid this option though, country hotels are often much nicer.


Andy
(fair weather rider!)

I dunno, each to his own but when your high beam looks like this, then with a $40 LED spot it looks like the second pic I know which I would choose.

Just slap me down and call me Charlie.

They came in handy in Mongolia when we got caught and had to ride in the dark too.

Chris.

That's a good illustration ... and about matches how my HID kit compares with the stock 55W H-4 bulb in my DR650. The $25 usd HID kit is a HUGE improvement and only draws 35W, so frees up 20W for Gerbing and heated grips. :thumbup1:

But a good battery (NEW IS BEST) and good charging system are key if trying to run extra Spots and Floods. On the F650 the Reg/Rectifiers can fail, then can overcharge your battery and KILL IT. Check it out.

I believe the F650 has enough elec. output to handle an extra 40W or so ... at least for a few hours here and there.

There any many lo-cost LED type spots for sale on Ebay, et al.

It's mountain roads where the LED spots help a lot. You set them so they see around curves. Very useful. For straight roads a good LED or HID headlight will do you fine.

Make sure headlight is aimed correctly so not blinding on coming traffic. I rarely get flashed on my DR650 with my HID (very bright!). Once in a while I get flashed, I'm OK with that. Can't please everyone.

Use Warm-ish 4000 to 4500K color temp on your LED or HID bulbs. Higher number means too blue, which really pisses off other cars.

I have installed the direct replacement single round headlights in LED on several customers bikes. They fit exactly in the headlight shell and draw 2 amps less than stock 60 watt. They are super white light and a world of difference. I agree winter trips in mexico can make for very short hours of daylight. Much prefer arctic circle in summer.

Yeahh right.

What a new word came on here recently "BLINC"? I do not give a flying FU$$ if something is nowadays called "Blinky" only because it was used in a moto soap some years ago. If I want it I get it. Simple as that.

And yes, I got extra lights on my AT, if I switch them on i can see till Mexico doesn´t matter where I am (Ok Ok, the others don´t see a damn thing they just think an UFO is coming, point taken but...).

And yes, I surely avoid driving at nights e.g. in Australia or Asia or SEA, but of cause had to do it from time to time, and then the lights came in handy. Of cause when you are in Europe somewhere on the highway... different story.

And yes, I like my lights and would not travel without them anymore, in Thailand I pimped them and got different bulbs as well. They are cheap and effectfull - so why bother?

And yes, same with my truck horns, 150dBz+. After installing them in Jacarta it was a whole different story. Traffic, what traffic?

...

I think the word was "Bling". It's the noise they make on shopping channels when adding fake sparkle to cheap rubbish.

Andy

Hi Guys n Gals,

the biggest worry I have during my Winter commute is that the tail light's really small on my Serow and there's always a risk of being rear-ended by a dopey cage driver.

So I grabbed myself a pair of LED combination lights, wired as aux lights into the wiring harness and mounted them to my panniers.

If anyone says that they didn't see me then I'd smack 'em one!

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0126d5b4.jpg

And this image is only on side lights, you want to see what they're like with brake and hazards going, it's a bit like close encounters!

The best thing of all is they only take 0.6AMP's

Regards

Reggie

I rode a Triumph throughout the 1960's Travelling 435 miles each way most weekends to and fro my home and the base on which I was stationed. Those lights were not very good.
In The last ten years I have ridden using lights twice. My advice is try to avoid it. BUT It really is a good idea to have good lights. So if you are obliged to ride at night it will be safer.

Following this discussion I may well look into the more modern lights.

Hi Guys n Gals,

here's an upgrade I did today by fitting waterproof connectors. So I can remove the panniers in seconds, leaving the original lights operational for servicing etc.

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/...ps74308826.jpg

Regards

Reggie

Hi Cameraman,

where did you get those side "rectangle" like brake lights? On my todo list are rear stop lights improvements, and those are the kind I'm looking for

Cheers

Arkean

Hi Arkean,

here's a link to the supplier.

LED Autolamps 200BSTIME LED trailer light Multivolt Stop Tail Indicator Slimline

They were supplied for stock and really make a heck of a difference, I'm well impressed with them.

Regards

Reggie

Pair of PIAA 1100X......
 

Not too big, not too in-your-face but when you need them, you will be very grateful they are there. Agree with not riding at night in remote areas but on road, with great lighting, you can make up for lost time or just keep going.

Rode from Freiburg North through wine country up into Belgium 250 miles after dark and without the lights.......nope, not a chance!
Try it, you can always take them off if you feel the opposite.

I rode at night a lot, for really pot holed broken roads or for off-road riding then yes they really are needed and also for when riding in long tunnels with poor or no lighting then yes again they are very much needed but they are not a must have more a nice to have


Dont look to much into the high priced "Adventure lights" as any lights can be adapted to work

USA price for that PIAA kit is between $190 usd up to about $250 usd.
They draw 55W each, so 110 Watts for the set. Did not find the Lumens rating anywhere?? ... do you know what it is?

Aside from high cost and high current draw, they look good ... especially on your GS, which puts out about 800 Watts. Many smaller bikes (like the OP's F650) have lower output, may not be ideal.

My DR650 Suzuki puts out a meager 200 Watts total. I've gone with a $25 HID head light kit, $40 LED aux light (one).
DDM Tuning : HID Kits and Components

My HID puts out 4500 lumens from 55W HID bulb.
Cheap, cheerful, Chinese. First ballast gave up after 4 years, DDM Tuning sent me replacement ... free!. It's so small, I carry a spare kit on board.

Regarding the PIAA's.....
 

Just got a pair of 1100X from Amazon (US).com for $150.00.

Bought them to replace the PIAA 530LED's that draw nothing, are extremely bright but are no better than my OEM Hella Fogs.

Supposedly, allegedly, the new PIAA light bars (LED) are meant to be great but until I see em.....?

suppose it depends on what kinda adventure riding you do. My observations over the years are:

1. Like Mollydog noted, the reality is, no matter how sure you are that you wont ride at night, you will. To not prepare for it is like not bringing tyre levers with you because you dont plan to get a flat tyre.

2. Getting more light on the road makes a huge difference in riding at night, especially on poorly lit roads or offroad.

3. Its never as simple as getting more light on the road or blasting out more light. The shape of the beam is very important. A cone of light blasting out from a non shaped aftermarket beam is not really adding much value. It results in the foreground being very well illuminated, which then shrinks your pupils and means you lose your distance vision, due to the overbright foreground. The best results are obtained from a proper headlight beam which is designed with a beam shape that is relatively weaker in the foreground than a simple cone of light and more concentrated towards the point where the light hits the horizon / beam cutoff. Think about it.... if you have a light source 1 metre above the road and you are trying to illuminate a road surface stretching in front of you 100m, the best result is to have that road surface evenly lit, as it would be by daylight. How you get the road surface 100m away just as bright as the road surface 3m away from the light source? Its only possible with a very very precise beam pattern, and that usually means projector lights, not reflectors or LEDs without projector lenses.

4. Additional bolt on lights need to be mounted wisely. The vast majority are not. They are just waiting to be broken off in an impact with a tree or the ground.

5. Bearing all the above in mind, I have a strong preference to (i) always have vastly improved light over stock, because stock is always crap. (ii) improve the standard high / low lighting rather than bolt on additional lights. Many years of experimentation has resulted in me usually using retrofitted bi-xenon projector lights from cars on the adventure bikes I build and set up, in place of the stock lights.

A set of these on the bike is by far the best lighting I have ever had on an adventure bike, and that includes a direct comparison with an earlier 1200GSA with 4 aftermarket HID Hella lights on it. Bi-xenon: Sportbike Stage II Kit

https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6063/...a088612c_z.jpg

Many bikes have single 7 inch round headlight units, easy premade retrofit bixenon units exist for those.
http://www.futurevisionhid.com/h6024...headlight.html. If you cant be bothered doing your own conversions, there are companies that do it for you.... Sick HIDs

The distribution of light is much much more important than quantity of light in terms of visual utility. That output needs to be shaped, ideally by a projector lens. Avoid over-illuminating the foreground.

Getting back to the OPs question ... "Additional" lights are un-necessary. Better results come from replacing the stock lights with better ones. And additional lights in my view absolutely are unsexy - to me they dont look professional. To me they look weekend warriorish.

But hey, Each to their own .... some ppl think this looks hot:
http://i1.wp.com/www.lasvegas360.com...ter_lights.jpg

I've had some huge Hella lights mounted on the nose of my vw golf mkII when crossing Morocco and I really liked having them. A beam that could sign to Saturn so strong. Useful for driving, or trying to pitch a tent in total darkness. And the headlights of a 30 year old car are not the best anyway. So afterwards ditched the car and kept the lights. If I ever get a new 'cool' car I will bolt them on. Looks nice, works well.

I'm coming to this thread from a different angle, and that's daytime riding. In France, as with a lot of other countries , it is a legal requirement on modern machines to ride with dipped headlight, indeed they are wired in to the ignition nowadays. This is supposedly a safety feature, which does work to a certain extent in dull conditions, but as soon as the sun comes out pretty useless on it's own. Think about the SMIDSY situation of an emerging vehicle not seeing a motorcycle because it's not moving against the background. The emerging vehicle driver may not even see a single headlight, or even attach much importance to it as it doesn't give the appearance of anything significant in size, but put some width into the light display and it's a different matter, you appear much bigger and more threatening, and other road users tend to notice and be more careful.

I completely agree with Walter Colebatch on beam pattern for those days when a bit of night riding is unavoidable, but equally I am a fan of some bright day time running lights placed at a good width on the front and not on the same level as the headlight. ( lower).

At the same time good reflectors placed wide or pannier lights as discussed are good at giving you width at the rear, which makes overtakers give you more room as they pass.

It works for me - been doing it for years!

Agree that good DRLs (which are increasigly available these days) are not a bad idea.

I tend to ride on high beam during sunny days, because as you say, low beam in sunshine is pretty much invisible to cars.

keeping your light on during day time
 

It is not a supposedly safety mesure : it IS a safety mesure ! It is not because it is less effective in bright sun that it is not effective in general. Quite a lot of the accidents en Europe are due to drivers in cars not seeing you. Having your light on helps a lot to be seen.
Also concerning the adage "do not drive at night "(in remote areas of course like SE Asia) almost every body understand that but many still put aditional lights to their bike and then finish by driving at night. It is not less dangerous because you have good lights and can see what's in front of you, but it is dangerous because if a car or a truck comes facing you you cannot see what's in the road anymore for a rather long moment. In Europe for instance it is ok because you can drive with this moment of blindness as there is normaly nothing in the road (although not all the time !!!) but in SE Asia for instance there are so many bufalos, kids, scooters without light, dogs etc you name it, at night on the roads that you are at great risks!
My advice would be : keep your bike light without any aditional light hehe so that you will not be tempted to drive at night (once again i am not speaking for areas like Norway !)

Into head on overtaking traffic in Kazakhstan I was more than happy that I had the LED spots to switch on!

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8700/...f028e53574.jpg

It's your choice don't be put off by what you here off other people, you can be court out by bad weather, traveling that distance, how many time you here some one had to push on into the night as they had some sort of machanical problem, if you fit them and don't use them good, if you don't fit them and you needed them, bad.
I used a a reasonable priced pair off eBay for £20 each on a 36 hour endro through the night they worked great, I'll give a link to them when I get home

"I tend to ride on high beam during sunny days,"

Ah, you are the one.
Guess you get used to car drivers turning their lights on to high beam too so they don't get dazzled.

I used some thing like these but I only payed £37 for the pair, they came from China, they were really bright though the night, they lite the trails up great
I've just seen these on eBay for £13 a pair with free delivery, the same ones I used, these are really good water proof, bulbs have 30,000 hours use

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...obalID=EBAY-GB

? How do you get dazzled by a headlight on a bright sunny day ??

So no, I dont have to get used to car drivers turning their lights up because none of the tens of thousands I have passed have ever been dazzled during the day I guess.

I agree with what's said. No matter what your intentions, You may have no choice than to ride at night.

I HATE it and it always happens in the worst places. I got stuck at the Ethiopian border for 5 hours and it was going dusk as I left.

No way I was stopping in that mental and corrupt border town so tried to make the 50 mile trip to the next town. It went dark with only 20 miles to go and by dark I mean PITCH BLACK...

The crappy DRZ headlight was no use. I nearly hit two cows and a few trees. In the end I ran over a huge rock which jammed into my tyre and tore a 3" hole in it. I slept in a field that night and it was a nightmare to sort a tyre repair. Long story.

Anyway... Get the best headlight you can without going crazy.

I've considered a cheap Ebay pair of LED lights for £20. For use in an emergency. Wired direct to the battery with a hidden switch or relay.

For £20 you can't complain if they don't last too long.

2PCS 125W CREE U5 Motorcycle LED Headlight 3000LMW Driving Fog Head Spot Light | eBay

Daylight Dazzled
 

I have been dazzled by super bright lights in day time ... from oncoming motorcycles! Not so much dazzled really ... more like hypnotized, causing a total target fixation towards the oncoming bike. I fought it off ... but at first it really did get me. Never seen lights that bright on a bike nor a car. :helpsmilie:

It was a guy on BMW R1200GS with 4 extra spot lights mounted up. Stunningly bright. His headlight also SUPER BRIGHT ... was modulating type. Very hypnotic affect. First glance I thought it was a cop, but our cops don't have lights that bright.

Would have loved to have lights like that riding through mountain tracks in Baja at night. As it was, seemed totally inappropriate for road use, day or night. :thumbdown:

Good news is this sort of over kill is rare around here ... even in BMW heavy San Fran Bay area.

In most civilised countries it is illegal to drive with fog lights on day or night unless atmospheric conditions absolutely require it and it is always illegal to drive with high beam or driving lights on within X00 metres of another vehicle day and night.

Must be a reason for it - wonder what it might be.

You can easily be blinding in the daytime. Usually by people aiming their lights too high. Stare into a 125W bulb at 100 metres at any time of day and you'll go blind... With two of them on a flood setting and it's like riding towards the sun. doh

There is NO EXCUSE for blinding lights in day time. It's just total selfish poser behaviour.

I'm not keen on daylight running lights on motorbikes,just my opinion, they do have there uses as people say traveling it's best to have them than not, with them attached to the bike they are not really a problem, you can even leave them not conected till they are needed.
It's only when you have a problem like touring ted had, now he will not be without them on tours, same as me.

"Always On" headlights
 

In some countries and most USA states, an "Always On" daytime headlight is the law. Not really strictly enforced here in California but it IS the law ... and has been for about 30 years.

So, every bike you buy will be wired for an "Always On" headlight.

If an owner does mods or changes lighting set up (like I did), then it's easy to
install an ON/OFF switch. I like this as it saves battery on start up. If your headlight comes on with the key (as most stock bikes do) and it's very cold and your battery is low, then that can be the difference between the bike starting or not. doh

I always have my headlight switched OFF before start up. Then switch it ON once under way. I would like an additional low wattage spot light for night time running, but would never use it in daytime.

Having an ON/OFF headlight switch is also very handy if you ride a low elec. output bike like my DR650. With only a 200 Watt output it's hard to run accessories. On very cold riding days when running heated gear (Gerbing elec. jacket (77 watts) and heated grips (30 watts) I switch my headlight OFF. This frees up 35 watts. (I run a 35 Watt HID light instead of stock
H-4 55 Watt bulb).

This makes a nice difference in how well the elec. jacket works. With a total output of just 200 watts you only have about
90 watts free. Adding 35 Watts by switching off headlight helps quite a bit and you never risk running down your battery.
The DR650 Suzuki will keep running even if you run your battery down flat. But then it will not re-start ... unless you Bump start it. So I try never to over tax the system.

But when riding in 30F temps one really needs that heated gear. Huge difference in survival. The DR650 needs at least 400 watts but no way to get that. After market stators give you 250 Watts but are unreliable Chinese units (not Denso).

The headlight helps a cold start. The current draw while minimal warms the battery. The cut out relay then kills it while the the starter motor turns. If you have a switch its better to turn it on for about two minutes then off just before you push the button.

I will never again rely on heated kit after I knelt on the plug just south of the North Cape one February. Minus 18 has to be survivable using food and insulation not electrical gizmos. They can make you comfortable though.

Andy

Ah yes ... the cut out relay! True, most Japanese bikes have this feature but not all. In fact, neither my Suzuki DR650 nor my Triumph 1050 Tiger have a cut out relay for the headlight. I wish they did! doh

I've heard of "warming" batteries with the new Lithium-Iron batteries like the Shorai and others, but not with standard lead-acid, AGM maintenance free batteries. Does it really work?

NO cut out relay on Tiger so headlight stays ON while your trying to crank over the engine. NOT GOOD.

Does not get BETTER with use, gets weaker then stops altogether. I stupidly installed a crap battery that is not even as good as the standard Tiger battery,
so most of this is MY FAULT.

Next up will be higher spec batt, a Deka or Yuasa. It's slightly BIGGER than standard batt but can just squeeze in the compartment. :thumbup1:

On my visits to UK riding around I noticed not many riders used heated gear.
That was in '03. I lent my friend my Gerbing jacket and he immediately bought himself one for X-mas. Maybe heated gear is catching on there? Was brutal cold around London when I was there.

I've used heated gear for 25 years, never travel far without it. If you know how to use it and have a bike with enough elec. output, it can be a life saver. I only use a heated jacket (Gerbing) and heated grips. My heated grips are not very good. (Some riders have heated socks, pants and gloves.) A high output touring bike is best to power elec. gear. (at least 400 Watts)

The good news is many new bikes now come with very effective heated grips. MUCH better than aftermarket ones. Triumph factory ones are fantastic, as are most BMW ones. Even some new Jap bikes now come with heated grips. :thumbup1:

The DR650 is a challenge for heated gear given its meager 200 watt output.
But I sneak by most times although I did freeze recently riding in 27F temps.
Had to slow down, then pulled off at Cafe, waited for things to warm up. This in Arizona! (not always hot there!!! :freezing:) But I was wearing Summer gear only ... as I had been in Mexico :palm:, on the way home.

Some riders don't use heated jacket correctly, layer wrong. Even so, once below freezing it will be less effective no matter what. But DOES help and can at least extend your riding time before hypothermia sets in. :mchappy:

Once you get the routing, hook up and connector issues sorted it's a no brainer far as I'm concerned. Never leave home without it. No more Michelin Man over dressing.
bier