New bikes arriving soon - Suzuki, BMW, Yamaha and what else?
 

In lots of other threads there are various references to what bikes may be offered to the public in 2008, and this is the time of year for the rumour mill to work overtime - just in front of the bike show season that will kick off in the near future.

So, here is a thread to pull together all of the rumours that will be around in the next few months - one place where you can spread the information that you have seen or heard somewhere else, but, hopefully, some information that has a modicum of substance to the story!


I have just picked up the August copy of the freebie Motorcycle Monthly that is distributed here in the UK: MOTOR CYCLE MONTHLY NEWSPAPER - FREE Motorcycle Newspaper for real riders - www.motorcyclemonthly.co.uk
This "confirms" that Suzuki are bringing out a 450cc motocrosser, RM-Z450, with fuel injection for about £4500 list price (does anyone pay list price for a brand new bike nowadays?). Available around Nov 07 for those who are holding their breath at present. I guess that the 450 motor will turn up in other Suzi models in due course.

So, what else is new??

KTM690 adventure :thumbup1:

Hmm, when, at what price and how will it differ from the current Supermoto model would be nice to know (or at least have some amount of rumour in circulation!).
So, when does it arrive in the Netherlands?

Here in the UK you can now have the BMW HP2 in supermoto version for around £12500 (same source of information as my first post) unless you negotiate a discount with your dealer - could be the bargain to have between now and Christmas! :cool4:

You must ride this bike..!! It does everything well.

What new Tenere?

Thanks.

Ian,
This one, if the speculation is correct (hence my post to see if there is any substance to all of the rumours that go around and come around):-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...a-tenere-28195

Bmw
 

Just to say I went to the Erzberg Enduro (Austria) and the BMW team was running a couple of 450 Enduro´s there. I have some pictures but know idea how to show them here.

Fish.

15K and makes over 40 hp. A 250!!

For a mix of the 450 and HP2 check here: YouTube - BMW Motorrad Motorsport @ Erzberg 2007

Like Mollydog I have heard that the 450 is out but I have also heard that it's not... After all Erzberg was after most people knew abut the Husqvarna-deal and it doesn't make sense to let Chris Pfeiffer ride an abondoned modell, or......?

Interesting situation....
No factory efforts at Pike's Peak from the Japanese.
The US is where the money is regards off road bikes....so where are BMW?

Market segments for selling bikes
 

That's a nice link Alibaba, and there are a few other half decent vids in Youtube of that venue; KTM are well represented (of course, being in Austria), but I have no idea if there is factory support for any of these teams, Mollydog - maybe someone else on here is more clued up about Erzberg.

Anyway, for marketing differentiation purposes (What a management term for a simple concept!) it's possible that BMW could place their own badge on the 450 and sell the Huskies with other engine capacities and that badge; customers will always pay a bit more for the blue and white propeller. I would not be surprised if there is no firm decision by BMW at present, which might account for different rumours and versions of stories.

For a travellers bike, BMW will surely stick with the projected 800GS?!

Fish,
You can put pics in to your posts as attachments (see underneath any current post that you are typing for "additional options/manage attachments") but this will handle only very small (not many Kb that is) pics.

Lots of people put them into a free web hosting site and then show the link and some of the moderators say that they prefer this - keeps the bandwidth down I guess.

It must be right....and if its' good they'll sell a million.

Without the driveshaft enigma to market, this bike will be compared to many other machines, from 650-1000cc+. I don't know where pricing will fall, but I assume it will be typical BM'Wish'.

If it 'is' light and it 'is' reasonably crashable, they could pull new buyers.

Is this bike something other than a replacement for the old F bikes...and those owners/buyers?

Based on?
 

"BMW....they are going Super Bike racing and have a 190 hp race bike....a production version will come soon too. A real sport bike based on the GSXR1000, which was their baseline bike. (BMW are getting smart!)"

- Since the GSXR is a bike built by their rival, how come this be? Or you mean more like theyre going to use similar layout of the engine, chassis, etc? Doesnt sound like BMW to copy a Japanese rival! And where theyre going to race it then... like national level, European level or World Superbikes? Stock streetbikes are now making close to 190 hp, think theyre going to need much more to even dream of success. And they now have launch control, traction control and other very expensive electronics.

Werent BMW (and KTM as well) rushing into Motogp just a few years ago.. until they both realised how friggin expensive it will be, so they pulled the plug? Will probably need a big sponsor (like Ducati has) to make it a reality.

The 800GS will certainly be an interesting bike. While the 1200 is just too big for anything but good roads, and the 650 maybe a tad underpowered against some v-twins, this could really hit the nail in the head!

BMW and KTM have factory teams. Not sure about the Japanese. More then 90% of the bikes is KTM and this is in Austria so it’s pretty much a KTM-event.

Yes good riders are important.
Juha was number three after the prolog, which Simo Kirssi (HP2) won again, but Juha did a great job in the Hare Scramble (#3)


Is the market in US bigger then the market in Europe?
One theory could be that right now it’s a lot of testing going on and with a small organization (in fact it is) it is easier to do it close to Germany.


I’m not sure if that’s right. People have talked about this for long time, even before the F800 was launched. As far as I know nobody makes “adventure” bikes in the range 700-1000ccm anymore. BMW had the 850GS but it was no success, maybe because it basically was an 1100.
The 1200GS have sold more then 100.000 bikes in short time and I don’t think BMW can handle a model that will sell a million :-) If it comes I think it will be "softer" then the 1200.

Actually Patrick, it's your fellow countrymen from Moto-X, raids etc. who go and enter the Erzberg - which is more an extreme Enduro event than a raid or hill climb. David Knight has won it because KTM Enduro iron rules supreme. Forget Jap hardware.

If you're interested, start reading at The Enduro at Erzberg
and then go on to read motorradmagazin - Erzbergrodeo.at which does have a link to some English text if your German's not up to scratch.

Checked some videos an found that five bikes made it faster then 12 mins and four off them was BMW... I wouldn't call that bad.
But you can't compare Pike's peak with Erzberg :-)

& from Triumph..........
 

Seems Triumph are close to launching their 1500cc, twin cyl cruiser for the US market:-

MCN Exclusive spy shots of Triumph's new 1500cc cruiser

This publication is usually close when putting about Triumph rumours; they seem to specialise in picking up on new bikes that are being tested as they leave the factory.


& an update on the Stelvio from Moto Guzzi:-
MCN Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 spotted testing
which is going to beat the BMW 1200GS.

KTM 690 Enduro nearly here.....
 

The 690 Baja bikes, which you can check out on this vid - YouTube - 2007 Baja 500 - 7x Team KTM 690 Baja
seem to have spawned the new 690 Enduro, pics here -
MOTORRAD online - LC4-Nachfolger kommt 2008
They look pretty identical and it mentions an underseat tank, which on the Baja version holds 20litres. Looks like a cracking bike to me........

Only Boxer cup ended up being a reality.
I agree.

If you count the MINI's and ATV's, KTM are doing well, out selling BMW overall. But Japanese companies still out sell KTM.

Any time you want to compare world titles world wide in all classes, between KTM and the Japs over the last 30 years....well, go ahead on :thumbup1: Prepare to eat crow. :Beach:

Mollydog,

Don't know about the Beemer racing effort but the Mercs "advanced engines" are designed and built in the UK (OK, England):-
Mercedes-Ilmor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As are most, if not all, Indy cars (+ a load of F1 car teams are based in the UK - no signs of Ferrari opening a workshop here as yet :nono: )

Not strictly relevant to bikes, but it is handy to know a bit about where the engine development is taking place!

A friend of mine works for Ohlins ... guess who their number one world wide customer is? NASCAR

I'm not aware of why the UK cannot produce a car that is badged as being from here but it is probably all to do with short term business attitudes to manufacturing blah blah.
Anyway, you are right, we don't have a mass produced British-badged car in production.
But, we do manuf cars with Honda, Toyota and Nissan badges to name one or two (or even three); in recent years there have also been dozens and more of specialist niche manufacturers of sports cars alongside the very traditional car maker Morgan (which still puts them together by hand on a wooden frame for the chassis - ashwood from memory). The Morgan Motor Company One or two of these specialists have gone to the wall in fairly recent times or sold out to buyers from abroad, but, so long as we hang on in there with Triumph I won't grieve too much! It is Triumph that is the big success story for bikes here IMO; sadly I have not owned one for quite some years but I could be tempted, depending on the title of this thread!

What about Land Rover?

Thought about them for about a second and then decided that they are not cars - but if you want, then OK.
Can't remember who owns them at present - BMW?

Jaguar are up for sale if anyone wants that badge - Ford are ditching them.

(Or is it Ford who own L/R??!).

Thing is that what is left of the UK badges are owned elsewhere - doesn't really matter I guess.
On a news item the other day, it was cheaper to bring a product from China to the UK then it was to distribute the same item within the UK to the final customer - that is comparing shipping around the world Vs sending it a few hundred miles further (so much for global warming, blah blah - with economics like that, nothing much will change).

:offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: but so what!!

Yes, owned by Ford but both LR and Jaguar are for sale and this will probably happen this year. Don't be surprised when LR will be bought by Indians, Chinese or Russians (as it seems others are not that interested).

Stelvio x 2
 

A bit more about the Moto G Stelvio which, according to this write-up, will be available next month, and have a choice of 850 or 1200 cc engines, but it will be pretty well road oriented - more like the current Triumph Tiger than the BMW GS for example (a matter of degree then):-

Moto Guzzi Stelvio Preview

F800 Gs
 

how the F800GS could look like:

http://www.motocyklmania.com/grafiki/rozne/000369.jpg

http://www.f800gs.de/assets/images/f800gs_mo.jpg

If you do an image search on google for F800GSyou will get a lot of hits:

http://www.gspassion.com/gsp2/images...SP/gsp800a.jpg

http://es.geocities.com/xavier_gordi...00GS_Dakar.jpg

Most of the pictures are pretty old, and fake...

We had a couple nice ones

Out of curiosity Mollydog
 

Patrick,

Out of curiosity - what did you do to set up the Griso - why was it difficult? And what about did you like?

Dean

sexy bike unlike anything on the road. And it works!!

Thanks for the info. It is a nice looking bike.

Dean

Hm. I think you've linked to some of the older artist's fantasy presentation of a new Stelvio. Actually the new Stelvio seems to be a bit more in the GS Adv league, sporting spoked wheels. At least according to the video and early pictures from Berlin earlier this year. So I actually believe Guzzi will try to take on BMW's GS hegemony more than the Tiger/Ducati Multistrada market. Or at least I really hope so.

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/ima..._Berlin_3r.jpg

Ktm 2007-2009
 

Some more "rumour" from the UK MCN, but there is a lot of substance to this with a financial report for some light reading:-

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload...08-02-2007.pdf

The table in this report shows two new 690cc KTMs next year for "adv" riding, named here as a Hard Enduro and a Rally version.
Also, "Adv Dakar" and "Adv Travel" 1190cc bikes for 2008-2009.

Lets hope that it is all true & that KTM stick to their plans!

Could be Indu and that's the reason for this thread; to share whatever you know (or don't know but have a hunch about) is just over the horizon.
The Stelvio link of mine was what I could find and it is dated Jan 07.
If you look back at my earlier link about the Stelvio, it goes to this page, which shows wire wheels (dated Feb 07):-
MCN The new Moto Guzzi Stelvio

Vfr 1000
 

And for anyone thinking of a new sports tourer, Honda may have what you want:-

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne.../?&R=EPI-93661

Mollydog,
How did you like the Norge? To date I have seen one on the road here (same colour as the one in your pic - maybe thats all they come in?) and spoken with the owner who had the "balls" to take it to a BMW dealer forecourt and tell everyone there how good they are!!

Niche Yamaha
 

Not much of a news item, but:-

See the most important motorcycles of 2008 here - Motorcycle News - MCN

So, watch out for Monday 10 Sept when, among the hype about the latest crotch rocket, there may be a niche bike announced - a Tenere?

Real men don't eat niche...
 

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...8sketch_01.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...ransalp700.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...nda_teaser.jpg

Rumours, rumours, rumours...

08 Tenere without a price
 

New BMWs on the way for 08
 

There is some news, attributed to reliable information, about many BMWs for 2008 in this thread:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...5-2#post150892

I rather like it. I like the KTMish wind screen/front profile.

Any idea what the price point will be?

Hi Kyler,
Can't disagree about the looks (the KTM front-end was the first thing that caught my eye), but the first view of the real thing is the acid test!

Said to be about £5000 here in the UK, which equates to about $10000 at present. But, big but, bikes are cheaper in the US (ain't you lucky).

As a point, this thread is putting rumours and stories about: the Tenere was officially announced for Europe a week ago and there is quite a bit of discussion for it on the Yamaha tech forum; it's worth a look!

Cheers,

"new improved" bikes
 

In my humble, and maybe wrong opinion, all these "new improved" bikes sometimes leave a lot to be desired..... RTW with a fuel injected 450 husky? cant strip a fuel injection like a carb, can you? electronic gizmos? I wish my XT600 had good old points like my old BMW GS had..... monoshock...... whats really wrong with two easily replaceable and cheaper units?? am I the only Biker on the planet that at the grand old age of 43 (ok I will be 44 on wednesday) looks back with fondness to the days when bikes were EASY to fix?
Rant over!........:D

:rofl: - I have longed for my old '53 IH pickup where I could flip the handles on both sides of the hood, remove it, sit on a fender with my legs dangling in the engine compartment and work on the engine. But I worked on it a LOT ... hmmm....

I've gotten rather fond of FI and not so fond of carbs. I'm not thrilled with ABS but am willing to make an exception for FI.:mchappy:

No . My bike has carbs , points and twin shocks .Twenty years from now it will be a valuable classic ,right now it's invisible and untrendy .
But I can fix every damn thing on it without the need for a technician or a diagnostic computer .

at least im not alone......
 

Thanks Dodger! you made my day!

Likewise !
and Happy Birthday .

bmw gs800 dakar
 

looks like the new dakar will be inline twin same as f800s due early 2008 same weight as gs650 dakar

honda xr250l
 

can you buy one of these in the uk or is there another 250 dirtbike you can register, these are $9000 nz :cool4:

kiwiron,
Here's what Honda are importing into the UK, officially, at present:-

Honda (UK) - Motorcycles

Not a very inspiring range for dual sport, considering how little things have changed for so long now (that will be another new paint colour for this year then!); maybe Honda are happy with their sales figures and won't change, but you might think there would be some developments and announcements soon, in light of what their competitors are doing (not to mention Euro 3 exhaust emission rules which should turn everyone toward FI).

For the "08 Dakar": have you heard something new? There are lots of stories around (see my post of about 3 days ago on here).

Cheers,

new dakar
 

the dakar info was from a local dealer that had an e-mail from bmw,looks like yam will have a wr250 road legal in uk/us.:cool4:

True = WR250R.
There is at least one other thread asking questions about this bike; it weighs about 20 Kg more than the F model, but I have no idea where that weight comes from!


Footnote.
There is a thread running in the Yam Tech that tells the tale about the weight; an Alu frame has become steel basically.

Anyone got a good camera?
 

Someone needs to go there and get some pics!

2007 Mondial Du Deux Roues

Oh Well
 

No sign of a dual sport/adv version of the Versys for 08 (not so versatile as it might be then! Versys = versatile system apparently).

Nor will a new KLE be available in the UK next year (and I guess in Europe as well - Euro 3 regulations).

New models: 2008

New Beemers for 08
 

I almost forgot; in visiting a BMW dealer yesterday (simply because my wife has one), the sales staff there were quite content to state that there are 6 new models on the way for 2008 - could bike sales staff be exaggerating? :rolleyes2:

Regarding the 800GS; it is about ready to be announced but they are "biding their time" - if a picture gets out, then it will be shown at the next available bike show.

Yep, a new 1200GS is on the way as well.

That particular dealer sees no way that they will deal in Husqvarnas; they don't want to train the staff to either service them or sell them, nor do they want to stock the spares or get extra tools to work on them.
Basically, they are too busy selling Beemers.

A new 1200 GS ?

Does that mean BMW think they have a lemon on their hands that needs a redesign ?

Naah, the rumours say that the 1200 will be upgraded so it becomes ”much better” then the new 800GS. Someone says it’s just minor details.

Most of the issues with the 1200 are ironed out (except the ring antenna, rear brake…)

6 new bikes for BMW
 

More detail of the Beemer rumours are contained in posts no 20/21 here:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub.../f800gs-8365-2

Now the BMW rumours are complete and together, for today at least!

Oh yes, for what it is worth, a couple of guys on 1200GSs were looking at various other bikes; when asked why (knowing how loyal BMW riders are to the marque) it is because they are now too common on the road and these two want to be riding something that is different.
Bikes really have become fashion accessories for some folk.

Hi Walkabout, bad news regarding no replacement to the kle:thumbdown:, i was disapointed :(so i emailed kwak uk for their reasons for no replacement for our brill machine..just waiting for the excuses
TDMalcolm

Kle 500
 

Hi TDMalc,
I've seen your post elsewhere about the reply from Kawa; good news; the more bikes available to the public, the better basically.
Strange how they don't list them on their webpage for 08, because they were listed on the UK webpage a few weeks ago (or my memory is playing tricks which is quite possible).
No matter, so long as bikes can be supplied is the main thing!

Cheers,

It appears that Honda will have a developed Transalp for 08:-

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...524#post151896

Shame that the Honda UK webpage does not tell anything about it, but I suppose it would not do to reveal too much, too soon (even if Yamaha & Kawasaki, to name 2, have got their whole 08 range on their webs). :rolleyes2:

Kawi's back in the dual sport game too...
 

Check out the new KLX250S.

Dr800 ?
 

I've heard Suzuki are to re-launch the DR800 as a full on GS beater, anyone else heard any whispers?
:confused1:

Haven't heard that one Ten660; that's a great rumour though - where did you get it?
I'll have to get around to a Suzi dealer! The MCN webpages say that their 08 bikes are being announced at the Paris show which kicks off tomorrow for the journos.

It will be a "BIG" no doubt.

Cheers,

Mate of mine works freelance all over and has heard whispers of some suprises Suzuki has in store for us all at Tokyo. I know it only took around 5yrs for them to release the B-king so who knows! I've always fancied the DrBig but the age put me off a bit.
Although if one was to be available at the right price.....:innocent:

Hi Dave, Just had a look on the uk web site under "dual purpose" machines and it's there with the versys:thumbup1: official price is steep @£3995 but can get them for £2995-£3299 if you look around
keep ewe a troshin bouy!:rolleyes2:
TDMalcolm

KLE lives on
 

Thanks for the info TMalc! Maybe you will be changing your name to KLE something or other? :rolleyes2:

As you mention, the KLE can be bought for much less than the list price; with a quick trawl around Autotrader I found a dealer selling new for about £2700 a while ago. I guesstimate that the 500cc will be available to the UK market at least until a new "versys" design of dual sport comes along.
I've talked with a couple of owners of the latter recently, and they have nothing bad to say about that 650cc engine or, indeed, the bike and its design and performance; it is another excellent value bike.

Cheers,

Paris show
 

Well the Paris show has produced the XL700V from Honda:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...4-3#post152694

but not much else of interest (lots of plastic crotch rockets, as ever).

That leaves Milan or Birmingham (UK) in the next 6 weeks or so for Yam and BMW to do their thing + anymore who might be sitting on a new bike release for 08 ( Moto Guzzi?).

Just to repeat the BMW 800GS rumour: it is about ready for release and if a "spy" picture gets out to the media then BMW will announce the bike at the next available bike show - it seems to be a case of drip feeding the new Beemers for 08 (6 of them in total with one announced at the Paris show - another variation on the HP2).

Paris show 2007: See the 2008 motorcycles and highlights - Motorcycle News - MCN

Umm sounds like an idea hatching!!!:clap: a new "versys" version of the KLE will have a lot to live upto.....so we await with bated breath:eek3:
TDMalcolm

I can see a lot of "mileage" in a dual sport Versys; I hope it is going to happen - the bike as it is now performs very well and the pricing at present is very competitive; as I mentioned, every owner I have spoken with has good things to say about this Kawasaki.

Another dual sport can only increase the choice of such types of bikes on the roads and provide more incentive to other manufacturers to get their pricing correct while providing well designed and specified products straight out of the crate.
In the meantime, when I look at the Versys I see really good detailing on the existing specification. e.g. compare their swinging arm with the latest version of the Honda Transalp. I guess the new TA is going to be around for quite a few years --- just had a thought -- maybe not. Perhaps it is an interim measure while Honda get their act together and produce a real dual sport???!! :rolleyes2:

Is the BMW 450 enduro dead?
Derfor kjøper BMW Husqvarna - Bike

Maybe, maybe not - toss a coin on that one!

For my money, I would say the 450cc will remain - it has been run by BMW recently, albeit well down the field.
But, it is early days; my local BMW dealer don't want to sell Husqvarnas - they can sell all the BMW bikes they can get, and that is without the new 800GS to handle in 2008.

BMW 450 Enduro Completes WEC Test - MotorcycleUSA.com

Royal Enfield - more a case of what won't be around in 08
 

I spent a bit of time with a RE dealer the other day; the last of the non-Euro compliant emissions bikes are now in the UK (basically the classics, as sold in India) - from Jan 08 the range available in the UK will be smaller therefore and will be only the modern engines; the Electra 500cc range.

Apparently as the emission requirements get more stringent for RE, a 250cc engine will be manufactured to meet these.

nice rumour but is there any substance to it?
 

There is a story circulating on another website about Honda "going head to head" with BMWs' 1200GS by changing the Varadero in 2008.

It is a nice rumour (and has been around for some years in the form of a wish for a decent replacement for the AT) - has anyone got better information about this?

Honda can certainly blow the doors off BMW anytime they wish.

Now BMW have something to cheer for!
 

[QUOTE=Walkabout;153197]Maybe, maybe not - toss a coin on that one!

Yeah, all is nice on the paper, but where's that Honda?

BMW heavy? Why contributing the myths and lies, again, Mollydog? Compare it with similar bikes first. 199kg dry, a big trailie bike having 1200cc engine, lot of additional stock comforts (standard heated grips, ABS, etc), telelever and shaft drive. I.e. V-Strom 1000cc is 208kg dry (the same weight as my almost 10 years ancient old oilhead GS w/o ABS btw), while having conventional forks and chain drive with regular swingarm. Name me a big trailie jap twin in production, having that capacity engine and is lighter than R1200GS?

If I'm not mistaken Honda Varadero uses de-tuned VTR race proven engine, and the bike weights 235kg dry. It's 36kg more than your "overweight" BMW that has bigger capacity engine with higher torque output.

BMWs weight is well in competition, and in fact, in the forefront of it, considering it has telelever and shaft drive, if you compare it with similar purpose and size bikes. I.e. KTM 990ADV is 199kg dry, it's the same weight, while having 200cc smaller engine, chain drive and regular forks, and is more offroad-oriented than the GS. And the same weight while KTM claims it has the lightest and the most compact V-Twin motor in the market of that capacity. Looking at other big trailies in production: Aprilia Caponord, V-Strom 1000 are another examples here, all of them are heavier than GS with all of its bits and bobs. Looking at the more realistic wet weights then BMW has a advantage of air-oil cooled engine not having cooling liquids, good example here is V-Strom that is 240kg (528lb) wet and R1200GS is 225kg wet weight, road ready fully fueled. Fuel tanks are approx the same size btw. And what we see? That, mythically known as, "lardy GS", having burden to carry telelever and shaft drive, is a massive 15kg lighter than smaller engined V-Strom 1000.

I'd recommend stop talking bollocks about BMWs weight.

Here's what Honda should do in my opinion (my shorter version of "M-s bollox") :) : shaft driven, like the old Honda XLV trailie was, horizontally mounted boxer-2 (i.e. reduced B-4 or B-6 off from Goldwing) based large calibre (torque-over-HP oriented, not another pointless high HP-output revver) dual purpose bike, with ABS, catalythic converter and other new generation gizmos and bits. Very comfortable & spacy for rider and pillion, good wind protection, 500+miles per day no prob, and all of this should fit into package that is lighter than 200kg dry. A must is over 10,000km maintenance intervals, over 600W generator and less than 4.5L per 100km fuel consumption on highway. I'd be a hard job looking how much GoldWings weight, but Honda has lot of tech tricks in reserve so should be able to do it...... I'd definitely consider buying one then. Do I win a breakthrough innovative design award for Honda now? :P :cool4:

But do you really doubt Honda could build such a bike?

I don't doubt, anyone or any make could build any bike with motivation (if it makes a sufficient income), but still, where's your supposed bike then?

Loyal to Honda people have been waiting for years Africa Twins successor without results. Many of them have already bought a GS or 990/950ADV that are probably the best bikes in their fields currently. Some wait for the F800GS hoping it'll be similar to AT with looks and decent upgrade from the engine side.

Don't change the topic to world championships thinking it'll solve your lies. You deliberately bash BMWs around the forums, which is OK for me since brainless BMW bashing is getting old and out of fashion, only some senile guys continue to do it these days manly because of jealousy :) . What I don't cope with, and the reason I replied here, is that you also deliberately generating and contributing myths about BMWs being overweight in their field in various threads, which, as explained in my previous post, is a lie.

Very probably does. German makes are one of the most precise and strict in the official weight specs, changing something can bring scandal. While I've heard the in the past before more strict weight standards came on japs even took off the tyres, or even seat and windscreen for "more suitable" dry weight specs to be better than European makes. Probably this is why we still rarely see wet weight specs for many bikes. BMW is one of the few makes who reveals that specification on all of their bikes.

In your case: GS was ABS model and with extras: engine guards and/or pannier frames+panniers? R1200GS is specified 225kg for a road ready fully fuled bike with no extras, any extra will add more weight.

Yeah, I'd like 2008 Honda GoldWing, with airbag and DVD-player to be cheap as chips too, so I can buy it as a sunday ride :rofl:

Like most of racing engines, the hand-made RC211V in V5 format hasn't found a way into production after years of its birth, being pointlessly expensive to produce on a production conveyor where different laws apply. Production (motorized conveyor) and racing (handwork) are two different things, with astronomically different cost-per-unit factors involved and very few regular motorcycling people have a serious need for strict racing technologies. Those, who need die-hard racing technologies and use it to full probably make 0.001% of the clients visiting MC shops around the Globe. Incoming amount of money from the production itself decides the real mass production direction and you can't change it alone. If it's cheaper and more effective to produce I4 in big numbers rather than V5 in small numbers, then I'll be so. Probably if Honda starts to make RC51 as a production and close to the performance specs the hand-made racing cousin has, then the next thing we hear is Mollydog is bashing Honda making a too expensive bike.

Like you've never owned a modern BMW yourself and thus you don't know anything about them, and still you keep contributing lies and myths about them.

Thanks, but never needed your help anyway :) Racing is more for PR, company image and sales booster rather than a tool for production development. For production it plays a minor role, yeah a bit bigger role for sports bikes and strict-MX/Enduro bikes, but most most of other type of bikes it plays relatively minor note, especially for big trailies.

With your logic, then if considering all the success in racing then the Varadero has to be less than 150kg, ...and 700cc Trans Alp has to be less than 130 kg. Well, (with lot of handwork) they can make 1000cc 250+bhp 5-cylinder V-engined GP bike around 130kg range (before the 148kg weight limit came on, so they now put "ballast" on it), so 150kg for Varadero would be a fair play don't you thnk? :rofl: But why V-2 Varadero is still much more heavy than a BMW GS? 100 kilograms more than its supposed to be? In fact Varadero is one of the heaviest big traile currently around and Honda hasn't made any considerably lighter multicylinder big trailie with similar CC than a old farty BMW GS throughout it's 25+ years of history. So how much the racing success has been affecting their big trailie evolution? PS: BMW or Suzuki or KTM haven't had nearly that much wins in that wide spectrum of racing as Honda had for decades, but most of them make lighter big trailes than Honda. Where are those smart Honda's tech tricks you mentioned?

They're a small company and they're different, they get all the bashing and criticism because of thinking different. They don't have agressive proven-to-be-successful "strenght in numbers" strategy like KTM has in offroad and rallye world or the jap big four in tar racing world, so I wouldn't expect them that much in racing unless they get a very big sponsor contracts involved and forming number of different independent teams in the same race rather than trying their luck with one team to save costs for the company.

You's to are like 2 old grannys. Yes honda should pull the finger out and either make a better varadero for more off road type riding or bring back at better AT. Far enough BMW GS's are different and they have spent alot of money of RD and thats why the bike is such a hit with most people you just get on it and ride. Maybe it does feel wierd at the start but most bikes do after you get used to another one.

If honda did pull the finger out image what they could make. The SP1 was made by Mr Honda because someone in another bike company pissed him off. So i think he just said to his designers here limit less money build me a brillaint bike, and there you have it SP1 was made. Could they do it with a new AT or different varadero yea why not.

As for the BMW GS's vs a new honda something it would be good wouldnt it??:mchappy: :clap:

What about this one? Looks funny!

http://www.bike.no/img/content/normal/972.jpg

http://www.bike.no/img/content/normal/974.jpg

weird
 

the bike looks like a fly big fuel tank by the look of it ,set of knobbies cushion for the seat and you should be off looks light enough.:thumbup1:

Rumours have slowed down
 

It seems that there is a bit of a lull in the rumour mongering!

The weekly news in the UK has this one about the MG Stelvio:-
Video: Guzzi's Stelvio BMW GS killer spied testing - Motorcycle News - MCN
Online it does not add much to earlier information - It looks pretty definite that this bike will be shown at the Milan show in early November. However there are some pics in this weeks paper version of the MCN and they look very much like a BMW 1200GS in concept, but it is shown with a twin round headlight; this could be a "bolt on" for the spy cameras.
No price is mentioned and nor is the 850cc version mentioned.

There does not seem to be much of great interest to be revealed at the Japanese bike show (Tokyo?) so all speculation is on the Milan show, especially for the BMW 800GS.

Anyone going to the Milan event to get the pics??

It's appearing in the US this weekend - can't remember the race series, but it is reputedly the first appearance over there.

New 800GS
 

Could this be it?

You mean this one?

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/042407top.jpg

Looks like it's not dead after acquiring Husqvarna, looks like they still want to continue the development of EFI 450cc single offroader, maybe with some co-operation with Husqvarna now?

I found this in the web:

BMW G 450 X MAKES U.S. DEBUT AT GRAND NATIONAL CROSS COUNTRY
RACE IN CRAWFORDSVILLE, INDIANA, OCTOBER 27-28

Woodcliff Lake, NJ – October 18, 2007… BMW Motorrad’s 450cc
sports enduro prototype – the BMW G 450 X – will make it first
U.S. appearance at the GNCC (Grand National Cross Country) race
in Crawfordsville, Indiana October 27-28. Former motocross
world champion Simo Kirssi – the lone BMW entrant -- will pilot
the G 450 X in the class of Pro Bikes in a 3-hour race from
1:00 to 4:00 pm on the 28th.

The talented Finn rode the G 450 X to its first-ever victory in
its most recent appearance in the final round of the 2007
European Cross Country Championship, held in Schefflenz,
Germany, October 6-7. The on-going development of the
production bike has been widely viewed by the public throughout
the off-road racing season in Europe, but the new enduro has
never made tire tracks on American soil.

The AMA/ATVA-sanctioned Can-Am Grand National Cross Country
Series is America's premier off-road racing series. The 13-
round race series stretches through the eastern U.S., beginning
with the season-opener in Florida in March and concludes with
the season-finale in Indiana in October.

Berti Hauser, head of BMW Motorrad Motorsport, is hoping for
another cross country victory across the pond. “We’ve
demonstrated that our sports enduro concept not only works, but
is capable of winning races,” he reported. “Now, we have
raised the bar to aim for consistent top performance.”

For more information about the Grand National Cross Country
Series, visit Grand National Cross Country Racing Series -- America's Largest Off-Road Racing Series -- Racer Productions, Inc..


BTW, we've also heard rumours that Jimmy Lewis will race the
HP2 Enduro in the Veterans class, which if true will be a first
for a GNCC race, as well.


Special Announcement

At the end of the event BMW will be making a major announcement
that any BMW fan will want to know about!


Lane Swall
General Manager
Sierra Motorcycle Companies

Sierra BMW Motorcycle
Sierra Motorcycle Supply
1380 Kleppe Lane
Sparks, NV 89431

Yep, the very one Margus!
For now, BMW are keeping the faith with their own brand!

That 800GS again X 4
 

A story doing the rounds on another forum is below; you could not invent this (unless you sat up all night or are a script writer!).

OPTIONS...

1.) The basic 800GS:
Very closely related to the current 650GS by way of suspension travel and range per tank. (~200miles).
The 90/10 ratio applies...Much better suited for the packed stuff out of the box, but handles the pavement like its big brother the 1200, solid...This version will go down in history as a great wannabe rally god looking bike -in commuter covering. Due in part to it’s having a seat that is actually designed by someone who cares about everyone's bottom end, yes gone will be the need to ply the “jewels” from the Faux tank!! Fuel consumption is down a little from the 650 to average out to ~58 MPG...better or worse dependent upon the user! BHP is around 72. Elec power output is up, never an issue running heated clothing, GPS, and add on lights. etc...
Stripped this would fall in the $8800.00 range.
Option package (heated grips/ABS/power outlet/center stand) $9300.00
Many colors available. More Hi Visibility colors come into use.

2.) The 800GS Dakar:
Adds another 2” of suspension and another 1.5 gal of fuel. Yes, a little more fuel...
Gone are the days of waving flags spewed across the tank...Some other conservative scheme is applied to ID the Dakar version other than by its height. Standard is a real Dakar windscreen, paw protectors, better pegs and engine guards...~$9500.00. Optioned out as mentioned above, add another $500. A cool $10,000.00 will get you a set of keys. One color scheme only.

3.) The HP800GS:
An all out monster. Lightened by bits and pieces that are forged. Compression is up, power output is up to 80 BHP and gearing is matched for the apparent usage. Suspension is better than the G650, -much better. Fully adjustable in every sense. No extras. No options. A true Enduro/ almost MX bike that will go anywhere at great velocities. Has the smaller fuel tank of the standard GS (for weight reduction). Paw protection, pegs, bar, risers, tires, chain guard...All the goodies you’d want for off road performance and thats all you’ll find on this version.
Knowing “someone” will complain about the range, getting the larger tank is something that must be done on ones own. You’ll need to order the Dakar tank and seat combo, and install yourself.
NOTE: The HP version seat will be designed by someone who stands on the pegs 90% of the time and could care less about a comfortable seat...You’ve been warned.
The suspension upgrade on this model alone drives the price up $2000.00. So no, you will not need to go and get a “better aftermarket suspension later”...This set up is awesome and can be sent back for rebuilds ----done (at) any BMW dealership around the world.
Add the “less costs more” theory- (for reference search LTW M3 to see the differences less makes in $$) and you will shell out in the neighborhood of $14500.00...
The Dakar tank and seat combo (if ordered with the bike) will run ~$750.00. Ordered separately, expect to pay almost $1100.00

4.) To pay respect and give some homage to the original...

Enter the Limited Edition.

800GSPD:

Paint scheme matched to the original 80 GSPD.
Huge tank. Yes a huge tank capable of letting you run well over 300 miles between gas and pee breaks.
Suspension of the Dakar model, but has more adjustability. Some bits and pieces of the HP show up on this model, helping to keep the weight down and performance up.
Elec power can run a set of lights so hot they’ll melt the corneas out of passing motorists at 50 yards. Plus handle anything you plug in, be it jump starting stranded 18 wheelers and RVs - and what not...
Lower compression ratio so as to have the ability to run ANY nasty fuel you happen to find and it still runs great. Gearing is suited more for a 50/50 planned usage. Tubeless wire tires...with a 21” on the front. .
All options of the Dakar plus center stand, heated grips, and a very easy to get to (but not accidentally) ON/OFF ABS switch. Plus this model comes standard with HID.
Price is the SAME as the HP, $14,500.00

He did sit up all night and he did invent it - when this story first appeared on advrider it finished with the classic Henry's Cat punchline 'and then I woke up.' The last line's been chopped and the dream's been circulating ever since.

1 out of 10....

Suerte, Dan

BMW can keep a secret
 

Thanks for the education on that one Dan; that's what a rumour thread is about I guess.

BMW are pretty good at keeping secrets so, for now, will just have to revert to the rumour of about a month ago:-

Moto Guzzi confirms the Stelvio
 

The Stelvio is revealed, except there are no technical details here and no prices! :rolleyes2:
At least the pics are pretty:-

Moto Guzzi releases first official pictures of the Moto Guzzi Stelvio - Motorcycle News - MCN#

Shaping up well for the Milan show next week and MG gets their press release out ahead of Beemer!

Does Moto Guzzi deserve it's own technical forum, now that it has a bike to rival the BMW 1200GS (to name one rival), or does it end up in the "other bikes" technical forum?

Let's see in a couple of years' time. Maybe?

Is it my imagination or they've swapped to 17" front wheel now?

When the first pics of Stelvio came out it was 19" front (I think?) like the GS and I seriously started to think about one, since it'll be then the only bike directly comparable with BMW boxer GS. They both share the same benefits (for me): dry clutch, separated gearbox oil, single sided shaft drive for long maitainance intervals, horizontally mounted engine for ease of maintainance and character, plus ABS option.

But now Guzzi says they want to focus it more to tar-only handling, thus making it 2x17" wheeler, another "city hooligan" bike that the latest fashion is, like the new Triumph Tiger, Buell Ulysses, Ducati Multistrada etc? But 17" frontender isn't exacly a very comfortible-capable third world travel bike in my book, especially when in combination with relatively small suspension travel...

I seriously hope they'll sell 19" front wheel version of it too with longer suspension travel and optimized chasis balance for carrying bigger radius front wheel. I'd seriously consider one in the future then! :)

Earlier I too read some rumors claiming that Guzzi was aiming at the new Tiger rather than the GS. I think these pictures of the Stelvio proves otherwise, that GS is Guzzi's main target. It seems to me like a 19" up front and 17" back there, but we'll know for sure in a couple of day's time.

Mg
 

Hi Indu,
The Italian websites are saying that it is a 19" front with 17" rear.