f650gs twin - africa
 

ok so... short version - don't do it. long version - read on.

the fan fills up with dirt & mud, sand, grit etc. keep it clean to stop the engine, general, and oil warning lights coming on. no big deal.

the fuel pump failed at 51k. possibly due to running low, or out of fuel. if you want to preserve it - keep a 1/4 tank. not practical for africa where the range is already too short. carry a spare - i am using a pump from a hyundai accent. 60 bucks in khartoum.

when you flip the bike, you break the mirrors and the front brake fluid container. get it up before you take in air bubbles. the windshield was ok but put pressure on the headlight and shattered the glass. this was the second light i broke - having the metal or plastic headlight guard won't stop this.

when the bike goes down hard on the left side, you can shear the bottom of the two bolts that hold on the foot peg & side stand assembly. the side stand switch shatters - connect the red & white wires and the bike will run, but the side stand will have the bike leaning way over....

the hepco and becker alloy bash plate is rubbish. yes - rubbish. dunno about the bmw alloy plate (the after market one) or the touratech one. in any case, put a teeshirt between the bash plate and the sump guard. this is why:

on rocks, the clearance is too low. you get rocks between the bash plate and the sump guard. the steel bracket (stock) bends. of the four rubber mounts, the back two sheared off and the two countersunk bolts in the centre (of the 4 bolts) pulled through the alloy plate. i punched two holes through the sump - the size you could get 3-4 fingers through.

the tee shirt should stop you getting rocks in between then when the plate fails you won't puncture the sump. in the bush.... 250km from oil... lets just say the bike wouldn't have liked it much. carrrying 2-3L oil wasn't practical when i already had 40L of fuel for the 1000km trip between gas stations.

at one point after some gravel / dirt / corrugations the computer got upset. the horn blows intermittently, and the rear light (brake and tail light) failed giving a lamp warning.

after i flipped the bike the 3 plastic mounts on the display computer were destroyed - it had swivelled nearly 180 degrees. the two mounts holding the sides of the windscreen pulled out. cable ties fixed one side, the fairing on the other side was wrecked.

when you hit a rock with less than 2.5 bar in the front tyre...

1. a 2mm stone lodged between the rim and the tyre and broke the bead. no big deal... slime pump compressor and a screwdriver to dig out the stone...

2. bigger rock and the rim dents irreparably then you need a tube.

bottom out the rear shock and the top bolt of the two holding the shock will bend. i replaced the top bolt with a non-hardened steel bolt which nearly sheared in half after 400km. lucky i kept the stock bolt.

to sum up.... the bike doesn't have enough clearance. the cast alloy rims are rubbish. the rest is component failure (pump at after 50k) or result of damage off tarmac.

i would NOT use this bike in africa again. and i am only halfway down the east coast which is much easier than the west....

happy travels
d

I bought an F650GS twin in preference to a F800GS. I wasn't convinced the extra bits that you got with the F800GS made financial sense. For example, the upside down forks on the F800GS are still not adjustable. The standard bash plate is plastic. And I was concerned at the difficulty of mending punctures on the F800GS's tubed tyres when riding solo in the wilderness.

What I found was that on reasonably easy pistes the F650GS is fine and well up to the job, however on more difficult stuff the ground clearance isn't enough and my bash plate has the battle scars to show for it.

Also the sharp-turning front which is such good fun on tarmac is a massive disadvantage when you are restarting in the middle of rocks as you can't get up to walking speed before the wheel is diverted from underneath you.

Also suffered from component failures (wheel bearing, chain, top rad hose) and other concerns (overheating).

The F650GS cast wheels might not be up to harsh treatment (mine were OK) but F800GS owners report that the rims on the spoked wheels are made of chocolate. What's needed of the F800GS is more study rims with spokes through the edges so you can run tubeless tyres.

So far (touch wood) the Tenere has been everything I hoped for apart from it's difficult to pick up when dropped.

Hope things are OK with you otherwise and you are in a beer country!

Hey Man! Hope things are looking up! After reading your fuel pump thread I guess by now you know this bike very well. Everyone should check this out ... good example how the HUBB community comes together to share knowledge to help a fellow traveler. :thumbup1:

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...6-4#post289236
I don't think BMW street bikes like to be "flipped" to often! :taz: I am not surprised by the problems you are having. Such harsh use is not in the design brief of the F650GS twin. $1000 usd gauge clusters are not made to off road use.

I think in such seriously rough off road conditions ridden at speed, many street based twins would have the similar problems as your bike has had. Crashing is very hard on highly technical, modern street bikes. My guess is since you know your bike so well you probably won't have anymore problems that you cannot solve.

I rode V-Stroms through the US, Canada, Mexico and a bit of Cent. America. Quite a bit of off road too ... but I knew where to draw the line.

I have since gone back to simple, air cooled singles. Frickin' tough and bullet proof. My DR650 crashes extremely well ... little damage ...
but I haven't flipped it YET! :blushing:

In the end the important thing is that YOU are still in one piece! Bikes are very cheap compared to body parts! Take care out there ...

I go slow now and stay at the back, I let the fast boys go ahead and take my time to take pics and enjoy the beauty!

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_pXs6Z_85Tj8/TB..._3760.JPG.jpeg
This is where the fast boys end up ... run off the road by oncoming pick up truck on slippery, muddy roads. Two bikes off ... no injuries to bikes or riders. Bring rope and friends!
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pXs6Z_85Tj8/TB..._3831.JPG.jpeg
The fast guys ... they still wait up for me, I am enjoying the Redwood forests.

the bike was still running in gear when upside down... hahaha.

i broke the "stop" on the steering column so the bars turn too far and broke the indicator switch. didn't matter that the barkbuster hits the windshield coz i already ripped it out of the mount.

the hepco and becker crashbars are sensational as are the australian made barkbusters. i ripped a 125 honda apart with the crash bars when i hit at about 100kmh in iran and the bmw sustained only a smashed headlight from the other bikes handlebars, and badly dented panniers...

i cut up my spare tourance front that had 10k on it because i needed the rubber to replace the mounts between the bash plate and sump guard (i wired the plate back on) and filled up with 10W-40 diesel engine oil after running on 1L for 70km, to make the remaining 700km to nairobi. probably could have got petrol engine oil in marsabit but after 70km on 1L and 190km on diesel oil i figured she'd be right!

incidently i was avoiding the rear-shock killing moyale-marsabit road by doing the sandy eastern route around lake turkana between addis abeba and nairobi. i had already bent the rear shock top bolt before addis. the new bolts i had machined in addis - no good. one failed in shear 3mm after 400km tarmac (bitch to remove). reverted to the bent stock bolt.

These 650s seem to come in for quite a bit of criticism, but people seem to like the 800--isn't it the same bike, with a detuned engine? For instance, the 800 doesn't have any more ground clearance, does it?

There is a pretty impressive ride report on ADVRider ("Zambian Joyride") where an 800 seemed to do pretty well under very challenging conditions.

The F800GS has better groundclearance then the F650GS due to longer suspension.travel and bigger front-wheel. IMHO the F800GS also has a better riding-position and it feels more solid, it also has better brakes and better rims.
For me it would have been very easy to choose between the two bikes.
The important problems we have seen so far is basically the fuel-pump and some bearings, the same problems we have seen on AT/TA for decades.

The F650GS is a entry-level bike, it's not build for extensive touring.

Yes, the bike can do anything, it has been proved numerous times, It's all up to the rider.
The bike has some weak points, but I'm not sure if you find a better "small" twin suited for offroad.

Well, actually the riding position on the F800GS is identical to that of the F650GS in terms of the footpeg/seat/handlebar dimensions. No difference in 'solidity' that I can think of.

Better brakes--yes two discs instead of one. Different rims rather than better.

Despite the failings of the F650/800GS it's still an attractive proposition. Pity that the penny pinchers put the close ratio box from the F800S/ST in the GS models. A wide ratio 6-speed box would have been lovely, but as it stands top is too low on the F800GS and first is too high on both bikes.

I wonder when / if someone will manufacture different cogs for the F bikes, so we can have a lower first and higher top gear?

Higher top would also extend the range on tarmac. :)

The handlebars are different. F800GS is slightly wider and I think sweep and rise also is different (Part# 32717711767 for 800 and 32717711766 for 650). Upper trippleclamp and clamping support is also different.
The seat-height is different.

For offroad I always prefer spoked wheels, and I think most people do?

The problem is the rims which are made of soft alloy. Big rocks bend them in no time. I think I'd have mine re-rimmed with something in steel before setting off round the world. At least you can hammer them back in shape without the metal cracking, and locals anywhere in the world can weld steel.

I'm not sure if I had used steel.
The F800GS-rims have 36 spokes so it's easy to find a suitable ring. It's a shame it's not done right from the factory.

Steel rims, are we back in the 80ies? :confused1:


The big problem besides the inferior alloy is that the stock rims are simply too wide, on both the 650 and 800. If you want the best solution for off road riding, you should use a 1.6" front and a 2.5" rear. Excel A60 on the front, Excel double label or DID Dirt Star on the rear. X3 lace pattern with oversized spokes (Woody calls it "superlace"). It's not going to handle quite as well on the road, but it sure beats getting stuck in Africa with a busted rim.

Other than the wheels - which would also have sucked on the 800 - the major problem seems to be ground clearance. Colebatch reported that both of the 800s he was riding with on his Russian trip also hit the ground a lot, and I think they already had stiffer springs. If you are tall enough, I would be nice to raise it another inch or so. How much gain do you drop with the low seat?

Fuel injection is going to be sensitive to bad gas on most bikes, so carrying a spare pump and filter might not be a bad idea. Luckily neither is big nor heavy.

An F658 is IMO a very good starting platform for an overland machine, but as with all bike designs it is a compromise that will only become truly capable for the rigors that are likely to be encountered, after some thoughtful and well implemented preparation. Proper preparation prevents Pxxx Poor Performance!

Dajg's comments on what failed for him and his observations are fantastic "on the ground" information for doing the required preparation, which being from "on the road" experience IMO carry some weight.

The list of items on our F658's requiring modifiction or preparation before setting off on our journey is extensive and was added to as a direct result of his post - Thanks Dajg!

Hi Dajg,

We are travelling down the East Coast of Africa towards Cape Town on 2 F800GSs later this year. One thing I was concerned about, is the rear shocks on these bikes, but now I am also concerned about the 1000km between gas stations, where is that ??? :confused1:

I only have room for around 8L of extra fuel. Looks like I need to re-think that plan .... dammit !

It's a GS and therefore should be capable of dirt road use without falling to bits. That said, I seem to be reading a lot about modern BMWs falling to bits.

longest distance without fuel was omorate in southern ethiopia to marsabit in kenya i.e. eastern side of lake turkhana. think the western side might be less distance but more sand. in omorate fuel is 2 bucks a litre (black market).

i have a 12L liquid containment fuel bladder (made in australia) and bought 5L empty cooking oil bottles in ethiopia (also avail in omorate) for about a buck each so i was carrying 22L extra fuel. also had load of water.

contact chris at jungle junction nairobi to confirm but the story is something like this - group of 6 (family) from SA rode north on F800's and all 6 needed new rear shocks in nairobi. chris has a bucket with at least a dozen BMW shocks at his place (i have a pic i can email u if you want...). i believe this group had not ridden the moyale to marsabit road which is apparently the worst section on the east coast. i avoided this section by going lake turkhana which might not have been a great idea.

personally i think the f800 should be ok if you don't overload it - 10.5" clearance against the 8" on my f650 twin.

i carry 2 panniers and a half filled 20L drybag so when not carrying extra fuel, with panniers at 6.5kg each luggage is about 50kg. i ride solo so have all tools & spares for my bike - if you have a group you can share these around to reduce individuals weight.

problem with the rear shock is the top bolt. read on adv rider beasts forum. i changed mine from the 10.something to a 12.something grade bolt (had a ethiopia made bolt shear after the stock failed, so don't get local parts - chris at JJ's gave me the new one and a spare) but from what i read, the overlander problem is the bolt failing then the rider continuing (because they didn't have a spare) and the shock and mount doing serious damage. so - upgrade and / or carry a spare. i cut a hole in my fairing (the black plastic part) so i can use an allen key now to remove the bolt and check its ok rather than removing the airbox, cable ties etc as per bmw manual.

kit the bike with the crash bars... they will save you $$$. best comment i read somewhere on hubb website was "why take a 10,000 euro bike to africa when a 3,000 euro bike [(eg DR650)] will do..." personally i am shipping the f650 home from cape town and buying a DR in SA for my ride up the west coast.

happy travels
dave

Trade it for a F800GS:D

Congo-light: YouTube - Unterwegens's Channel

Here is what BMW says about the wheels:

Hey Dave,

That's one tough ride to cut across to Marsabit from Omorate solo, we went straight down to Loyangalani. I'm not sure what Omorate-North Horr-Marsabit section of road is exactly like but I wouldn't think that it would be any better than the Moyale-Marsabit road. I know the road to Loyangalani wasn't:).

In regards to the west side of Lake Turkhana, I have met one biker that did it but that was years ago and most are put off by the hassle and uncertainty of negotiating with the boat owners to ferry your bike across the river in their canoes. One pedal biker I met had a tough negotiation to get them down to even a bearable price. The roads are supposedly somewhat better on that side though.

As for the African west coast roads, depends on the season and route but in general they aren't that much worse that what you have already been through if you stick to the main route. I just came up from South Africa to Nigeria and while there is definitely more bad road than the east coast, I'm not sure that it is enough to need to switch to a different bike. I was riding a DL1000, which also falls into what I would consider the category of street orientated dual sports, and has about the same clearance as yours and while at times I wished I had a bike that was more dirt orientated, in general it was perfectly fine.

As a side note, I also met a rider from the UK in DRC who had completed a RTW the year before on a new Tenere but had heard that the roads were rough on the African west coast and as such went really light and bought a slightly older XT for a trip down to SA. In short, he didn't find the roads nearly as bad as expected and wished he had brought his other bike which he had already put the time and effort into setting up.

Sorry to hear that your bike has given you some trouble thus far but sounds like you now know your bike inside and out. Knowing the weaks spots of the bike you are riding (and all bikes have weak spots) is probably one of the most important things. Your bike already has the dents and scratches of the road so isn't really going to depreciate much more. Once you factor in the cost of shipping your bike home ($1,000-$1,250) and the depreciation on any different bike that you buy, (and other small items like the costs of temporary import permits at some borders if you don't get a new carnet), it'll cost you a fair bit to switch and I'm not sure that the roads really require it. For the incremental cost vs. benefit, it's probably very debatable.

Anyways, just my two cents. Drop me a line when you are heading north and maybe see you somewhere on the road.

mountain man, thanks for the advice. i have had similar thoughts.

my main consideration was - if i get to a point where there are two roads, one leading somewhere cool and the other leading somewhere dull, the choice will be dictated by the condition of the road simply due to what i consider the f650's lack of off road utility.

the cost of shipping isn't a huge concern - i would have to ship the bike home from the UK otherwise. also, my carnet expires in october (i'll be in SA in september) so will need to either renew or replace at that stage.

the following parts of the bike failed due to premature?? wear:

fuel pump - 51,000km
top bolt to rear shock - unknown, noticed about 53,000km
rear wheel bearings - 55,000km

everything else, i broke. however i expected several components to perform better - specifically the bash plate, bash plate mounts and sump cover.

regarding the f800, other than clearance i don't think my experience would have been much different. actually - i would have been travelling faster each time i stacked it....

safe riding.
d

I think the above statement is emblematic of a trend showing more travelers going away from BIG heavy, expensive road bikes (R12GS, F800GS, R100GS et al) to less expensive, more expendable bikes that crash better and generally are reliable. More going with 250s and 400's. More buying "in country" local china bikes. Things are changing fast. I still like my DR as a versatile travel bike but I'm in California now, not Africa.

With a few good mods the DR650 is surprisingly good on the road, even comfortable on long paved stretches at high speed. (Good seat a must, heavier springs will help) Try not to overload with too much stuff. Off road on tough tracks the DR is easy to ride if not over loaded. It's even good in sand (firm suspension helps), rocks if not too technical.

I'm sure once your F650GS is put right you can re-coup a good bit of your investment from the sale. Good luck with the DR.

I've read the ADV thread on the broken shock bolt as well. Some seem to speculate it's a design flaw from BMW.

BTW, you don't need any sort of Carnet for S. America, but if you're going back to Africa after that then I guess you would need one.
Safe travels, take pics, have fun! :D

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pXs6Z_85Tj8/S9...13_uX2cw-M.jpg
Too much of a good thing? .... or "Why I Don't Camp". This guy really needs a GS.

moyale to marsabit
 

it was good to read your blog. we are in adis at the moment and heading to moyale, to hopefully head to marsabit and on to nairobi. we are a group of four 2 guys on f650gs's and 2 women one a f650gs and the other on a yamaha 250. we are a bit cncerned about getting through in a day and the girls handling the terrain and the bikes handling the road (shockies) etc. the bikes are all new low clicks, just thought you could give us some info. maybe we try and put them on a truck.

Which Buke?
 

Yes modern BMWs do seem to give trouble!

I have had two before; a R60/5 and a K100RS. Neither did give much trouble - although neither were happy on a gravel road; hunting and weaving and generally feeling nervous.

I have wanted to find a R80 GS in any condition, here in Queensland, to be rebuilt if necessary for overseas travel. But they all seem to have vanished from the roads.

There are plenty of the more modern öilhead"GS models, and they are at a good price.
Plus, their reliability seems to be acceptable. However I have other reasons to look for an old airhead.

The first is that my wife could never feel safe on a modern oilhead. Even with my Sportster, she is on tip-toes to sit astride. An old airhead would be much better for her. If/when we travel overseas, she would be on her bike, I on mine. But time comes when it is necessary to swap bikes. And it thus necessary to be comfortable on the other's bike.

The next reason is sentiment. When the R80GS came out, I was church-mouse poor, and could not even dream of such a beautiful bike.

Time moved on. My finances got better. I now own a '04 Sportster, which I love and which I would be loath to sell, especially to buy a hideous GS oilhead, which would quickly lose value, as well as be unridable by my wife. I have put 100 000km on the Harley but could still resell it at a profit.

But my affection does not blind me to the Sporty's shortcomings. 1000km range? As if! I am looking for fuel a little more than 200km! Suspension is OK, now, and for reasonable roads only. Africa? I'd rather not. And I have a drive belt. MUCH better than a ghastly chain, but prone to damage on a gravel road.

Yes I am aware of the ElectraGlide Harley of Peter and Kay Forwood, to date the only vehicle of ANY KIND to be ridden/driven in every country in the world. So I could use my Sporty. With suitable modifications. Some of which may decrease the pleasure I currently get while riding it!

Meantime, the search for a rebuildable R80 GS or R100GS continues.

Rob Hall

Which Buke?
 

Yes modern BMWs do seem to give trouble!

I have had two before; a R60/5 and a K100RS. Neither did give much trouble - although neither were happy on a gravel road; hunting and weaving and generally feeling nervous.

I have wanted to find a R80 GS in any condition, here in Queensland, to be rebuilt if necessary for overseas travel. But they all seem to have vanished from the roads.

There are plenty of the more modern öilhead"GS models, and they are at a good price.
Plus, their reliability seems to be acceptable. However I have other reasons to look for an old airhead.

The first is that my wife could never feel safe on a modern oilhead. Even with my Sportster, she is on tip-toes to sit astride. An old airhead would be much better for her. If/when we travel overseas, she would be on her bike, I on mine. But time comes when it is necessary to swap bikes. And it thus necessary to be comfortable on the other's bike.

The next reason is sentiment. When the R80GS came out, I was church-mouse poor, and could not even dream of such a beautiful bike.

Time moved on. My finances got better. I now own a '04 Sportster, which I love and which I would be loath to sell, especially to buy a hideous GS oilhead, which would quickly lose value, as well as be unridable by my wife. I have put 100 000km on the Harley but could still resell it at a profit.

But my affection does not blind me to the Sporty's shortcomings. 1000km range? As if! I am looking for fuel a little more than 200km! Suspension is OK, now, and for reasonable roads only. Africa? I'd rather not. And I have a drive belt. MUCH better than a ghastly chain, but prone to damage on a gravel road.

Yes I am aware of the ElectraGlide Harley of Peter and Kay Forwood, to date the only vehicle of ANY KIND to be ridden/driven in every country in the world. So I could use my Sporty. With suitable modifications. Some of which may decrease the pleasure I currently get while riding it!

Meantime, the search for a rebuildable R80 GS or R100GS continues.

Rob Hall

Just my 2 cents worth but while riding up to see a friend in Luxembourg last week,the throttle cable broke on my 100,000 mile VFR, in the break down lorry and I ask the older guy, what 'bikes does he pick up the most and why ? BMW's he said and electronics are the problem... So there you go :)

Unfortunately: Yes. I love riding my 1150GS on good roads in Europe. Comfortable, fast, great suspension, but when it comes to off-road rides in the Balcans or eastern Europe I prefer my old 80GS any day.

In the mean-time she has 150 kkms on the clock (usually with lots of luggage) and hardly any probs so far. Low ground clearance is a point, but the bash plate does a great job :thumbup1: And yes, the standard rear shock was the biggest crap on the bike, a secondhand rebuilt Wilbers now works reliably for well over 70 kkms.

The only semi-modern Beemer I'd buy is the older 650 GS Dakar single.... :innocent: