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-   -   SORN, MOT, Registration for Long-term-overseas UK bikers or drivers (http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/trip-paperwork/sorn-mot-registration-long-term-39472)

popotla 13 Dec 2008 11:14

SORN, MOT, Registration for Long-term-overseas UK bikers or drivers
 
If travelling out of the UK when the vehicle taxation/licence expires ("road fund licence", as it used to be or still possibly might be known), if one is to be fully road-legal, the licence must be renewed. Right? And if away long-term, more than one renewal might be needed.

In practice, do you actually renew each time, and if so how? And what about the MOT certificate, needed - I understand- in order to re-tax the vehicle?

MikeS 13 Dec 2008 12:07

Just do a SORN when you leave. Only lasts for a year but if you can't get anyone to renew it (maybe do it online?), I wouldn't worry about it too much. I got a few narky letters when I got back but nothing came of it.

popotla 13 Dec 2008 15:02

Sorry, my question wasn’t clear (and I’m going to re-post it).

I meant “If travelling out of the UK with the vehicle when the licence expires …………….?"

popotla 13 Dec 2008 15:10

Qtn. for UK bikers/drivers
 
Sorry, my question below wasn’t clear (so please read this one).

I meant “If travelling out of the UK with the vehicle when the licence expires, do you in fact renew it (possibly more than once, if away for a long time), and if so, how do you do this?

Also, the matter of the MOT test might arise. If this is due while overseas with the vehicle -and since the MOT is needed in order to licence the vehicle- how is this matter overcome?

docsherlock 13 Dec 2008 15:51

In order to get a road fund license in the UK you need to present valid insurance and a current MoT; as far as I know there is no way around this.

In addition, you need to make a SORN or statutory off road notification if you are not using the bike on public roads and not taxing it. They fine you £80 for not doing this if you don't pay the tax.

It's all a bit of a nause really but you could export the bike if you are going away for a significant amount of time....

SW

Alexlebrit 13 Dec 2008 17:10

I'm guessing you mean if you're going for more than a year? Because if you're going for nine months and lets say had four months on your current tax disc, you could get a refund on it and apply for a new year's one.

But if it's more than a year, I don't know, I'd guess SORN-ing it would be an option, as after all it's not on the public highway (in the UK) anymore, but then what do you do when you come back? I suppose you could say you were on the way to the MOT Station? Probably best to contact the DVLA directly, I have to say I've never had a problem and they've always e-mailed me back very quickly.

In France I see plenty of old UK cars with old tax-discs on, which clearly have no MOT either, and of course the big question then is, if any of these has an accident, will the insurance pay out?

So, I'd ring your insurer too and explain, and see if they would cover and get it in writing, I reckon in many ways that's more important than a tax disc.

Tony P 13 Dec 2008 18:08

Here we go again!
 
As in many previous threads -

UK Road Tax is only payable for UK registered vehicles when using public roads in UK. ie within the jurisdiction of UK Road Traffic Acts etc. If not on UK public roads not payable.

You can even apply for a part refund as you leave.

If a UK vehicle registered vehicle is not to be taxed (or a refund is requested because it is not going to be used on UK public roads) a SORN declaration must be made (free) that it is not going to be used on UK public roads. This must be done again annually. It can be done 'on-line' (ie from anywhere in the World) during the month before and after the Road Tax or SORN expires.

MOT is similarly only necessary if the vehicle is going to be used within the jurisdiction of the UK Road Traffic Acts (ie UK public roads).

On returning to UK it is permitted to use the vehicle without MOT and Road Tax to get to and from a MOT Test Station for a pre-arranged test appointment. The station can be anywhere in the land, not near the point of entry or your home - if stopped you be able to show you are reasonably en-route and give details of the appoiment time/date/place so they can check up.

So, book the test as you disembark, or while you are still away.

Insurance is a necessity throughout the EU and most of the rest of the World, so it is assumed you will have that anyway.

Never NEVER NEVER ask the DVLA. The only people you get to speak to generally know nothing!

RogerM 14 Dec 2008 09:27

Yep, here we go again.

Trouble is that when you de register your vehicle in the UK, to comply with the law in practically every country that you visit it must be registered. Your Green Card insurance or legal minimum insurance (EU) will be invalid as soon as you de register.

Within the Vienna Convention countries its an absolute must to have current vehicle registration to be legal and comply with the international treaty that allows free(ish) movement of vehicles - and a lot of coppers and border guards KNOW what a UK tax disc looks like, as well as the uniform registration documents. Its even harder for UK residents as so many people speak and read English and can easily read a UK V5.

Vienna Convention summary;
"The vehicle must meet all technical requirements to be legal for road use in the country of registration.

The driver must carry the vehicle's registration certificate, and if the vehicle is not registered in the name of an occupant of the vehicle, proof of the driver's right to be in possession of the vehicle."

If you travel with a carnet, then a condition on the carnet is current registration, some countries will only permit entry on a carnet based on the length of registration that is left.

I see a business opportunity here!!!

docsherlock 14 Dec 2008 09:32

So the answer is to buy a new bike which will not need an MoT for three years; tax and insure it remotely - get the disc posted to you and you're away. Of course the difficulty is buying a new bike....

SW

Alexlebrit 14 Dec 2008 15:08

I presume then that the Vienna Convention equally applies to any MOT then, as that's a legal requirement for a British vehicle too?

I see a nice little dodge though, bring your vehicle to France, I'll register it at my address, and then you won't EVER need a tax disc as we don't have them here.

DVLA, I wouldn't telephone for a response, I'd e-mail them, you don't usually get and instant reply, you'll get a considered reply a couple of days later, and that will have the correct information and help within.

Redboots 14 Dec 2008 16:07

For a vehicle to be legal outside its country of registration, it must be legal in its home country.
For the UK, that's taxed, MOT'ed and insured.

However, how many foreign fuz would look for a tax disc, I don't know. There are plenty of Brits living in France and Spain that dodge the tax disc... with seeming impunity...

Alexlebrit, are your quad things classed as bikes or cars in France?
In China, I had to get a "Safety Inspection" done on my BM because, being registered in France I didn't have one. My mate forgot to bring the MOT certificate for his bike so was in the same boat.
Simple check though... sit on bike, squeeze brake and clutch levers, passed!

John

Alexlebrit 14 Dec 2008 16:20

So to the OP it looks like there's no strictly legal way to do it, I'd guess drive on your tax disc till it gets close to running out then get to an internet café and SORN it from there.

But look out in France, I don't know about Mister Boots, but up here in Brittany les flics have started impounding British cars without the proper documentation.

Tony P 14 Dec 2008 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerM (Post 218899)
Vienna Convention summary;
"The vehicle must meet all technical requirements to be legal for road use in the country of registration."

OK- say it meets it! Just there is no requirement to have a certificate to that effect (MOT) with you. Some countries have no periodic Technical Examination for all or some classes of vehicles.


Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerM (Post 218899)
If you travel with a carnet, then a condition on the carnet is current registration, some countries will only permit entry on a carnet based on the length of registration that is left.

I see a business opportunity here!!!

LOL.
UK Registration is known a Continuous Registration and is perpetual unless it is declared as sold, scrapped or permanantly exported. (See Final notes on a V5,Page4).
Hence the obligation is to SORN it or to buy Road Tax EACH AND EVERY year for ever and ever.
Therefore a UK Registration is always 'current', even if the Road Tax or SORN is not. So this Carnet condition is not a starter for UK vehicles.

-- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Steve.
Got your PM. Will reply fully later. In the meantime these are some similar threads
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...mot-road-32649
and
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...rn-again-34052
and
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ax-while-25088
- - - - - - - - - - - - -- -

Alex/Red
I think your local fuz are after UK and other non French registered vehicles that are more or less permanantly in France and should really be registered locally. EC Directive 83/182 allows for visiting vehicles for visits of up to six months in a 12 month period - thereafter local registration necessary. We all know this is being considerably 'extended' by many ex-pats.

RogerM 15 Dec 2008 11:25

However, how many foreign fuz would look for a tax disc, I don't know. There are plenty of Brits living in France and Spain that dodge the tax disc... with seeming impunity...

There was a widely reported roundup of UK (un)registered cars in Spain last year when we were there in April. It was conducted with English speaking coppers and by all accounts UK officials were involved with providing additional information from the DVLA about the vehicles and drivers. The German residents had also been caught, but they are very easy to spot with date stickers on their number plates.

Alexlebrit 15 Dec 2008 11:28

Oh I'm sure they are after those ex-pats who think they can get away with not re-registering, my point was more that if say you're on your way back through Europe and you don't have a current tax-disc on display, they might impound first and ask questions later. There's enough illegally used British cars here for them to all be aware what a UK tax disc should look like.


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