Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB

Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/)
-   Yamaha Tech (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/yamaha-tech/)
-   -   Yamaha xt600e 2003 dj02 crankcase right broken (https://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/yamaha-tech/yamaha-xt600e-2003-dj02-crankcase-101010)

traians 12 Jun 2020 17:19
Yamaha xt600e 2003 dj02 crankcase right broken
 
2 Attachment(s)
hi I have a Yamaha xt600e 2003 dj02

and my crankcase the right side is broken, I want to know if I can use crankcase from earlier years like 1990 or 1986, because I don't find newer.

Grant Johnson 12 Jun 2020 20:16
I must be blind - I can't see where it's broken. I DO see casting marks which might look like cracks. Can you put an arrow where it's broken?

traians 13 Jun 2020 00:30
in the second picture I draw a black line, there is where is cracked


I am disarming the engine, to see if I can weld it, but I prefer to put a crankcase. if I can use one from a earlier model it would be great, I cant find a 99-03 one. on eBay I just found 84, 88, 90. and some are expensive.

traians 13 Jun 2020 00:38
1 Attachment(s)
look in the yellow circle

Mezo 13 Jun 2020 02:08
Quote:
Originally Posted by traians (Post 612100)
I am disarming the engine, to see if I can weld it,
It is non repairable, my 600E cracked in the exact same spot, buy this one (nearest to you).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-90-Yam...MAAOSwb4VbqlJS

Mezo.

traians 13 Jun 2020 16:23
but do you know if I can use crankcase from earlier years, if I can use it I can order it right know

Mezo 14 Jun 2020 07:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by traians (Post 612114)
but do you know if I can use crankcase from earlier years, if I can use it I can order it right know
Only the 3AJ.

Mezo.

turboguzzi 14 Jun 2020 15:53
mezo, just out curiosity, whats the difference that makes it impossible to use later model cases?

Mezo 15 Jun 2020 10:01
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612127)
mezo, just out curiosity, whats the difference that makes it impossible to use later model cases?
Not sure if i understand Bob? later as in the 4PT? i know the clutch actuation is different on them (being on the right) where as the 3AJ & 3TB are the same side.

Geoff knows more on engine swaps than me, he`s done most.

Mezo.

traians 15 Jun 2020 16:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo (Post 612122)
Only the 3AJ.

Mezo.
The 3AJ is the only one i can use??

Mezo 15 Jun 2020 22:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by traians (Post 612156)
The 3AJ is the only one i can use??
Your bike has an e-start right, most of the early bikes are kicker only, the 1VJ was both kicker & e-start but uses a unique starter that only fits that bike.

Your bike is a 3TB, it is basically the 3AJ engine carried forward.

Im unsure if the Belgarda or the TT600 cases will match? but whatever it must be an e-strart engine.

Mezo.

traians 15 Jun 2020 23:33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo (Post 612160)
Your bike has an e-start right, most of the early bikes are kicker only, the 1VJ was both kicker & e-start but uses a unique starter that only fits that bike.

Your bike is a 3TB, it is basically the 3AJ engine carried forward.

Im unsure if the Belgarda or the TT600 cases will match? but whatever it must be an e-strart engine.

Mezo.

Mine is the 4pt, the last year of the xt600e.
The 3TB is 1990 and up. So you think i can use the crankcase cover?

Thank you!

Mezo 16 Jun 2020 00:54
Quote:
Originally Posted by traians (Post 612162)
Mine is the 4pt, the last year of the xt600e.
The 3TB is 1990 and up. So you think i can use the crankcase cover?

Thank you!
Sorry i missed the year, so the main difference is how the clutch is operated, on yours the 4PT it is from the RH side & on previous models its from the LH side, i dont not know if this makes any difference internally though? i will try & find out if the case are the same.

EDIT: I sent Geoff a message so he may chime in soon with your answer.

Mezo.

Mezo 16 Jun 2020 09:14
I spoke with Geoff, short answer is NO because of the clutch issue, if you did it with an older case (if it can be done) you would need the whole clutch, the rod end, clutch cable, cover & brackets, and not 100% if it would even work (never done it).

He says your better using an original case (4PT)

traians 16 Jun 2020 14:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo (Post 612171)
Sorry i missed the year, so the main difference is how the clutch is operated, on yours the 4PT it is from the RH side & on previous models its from the LH side, i dont not know if this makes any difference internally though? i will try & find out if the case are the same.

EDIT: I sent Geoff a message so he may chime in soon with your answer.

Mezo.
thank you! I appreciated it

N67 16 Jun 2020 19:10
meanwhile, please let me ask this question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo (Post 612104)
It is non repairable, my 600E cracked in the exact same spot, ...
- does that mean that it's something like a "weak spot" of the engine? pretty concerned about it...

turboguzzi 16 Jun 2020 21:36
first time i ever seen this type of failure and i run some heavily stressed XT based engines in my supermono and supermoto,



doesnt mean it cant happen, as we see.


im always more interested in the "why?"


one reason i can think of is heavily lugging at low rpm, but not that provable.


when you take the motor appart, check the right main bearing fit in the new cases, if its too loose, that could be another reason.

Mezo 16 Jun 2020 23:41
Quote:
Originally Posted by N67 (Post 612194)
does that mean that it's something like a "weak spot" of the engine? pretty concerned about it...
Well if its going to go, it will go around that area as all the ones ive seen have done so right in that same spot (around the balance shaft) my 600E, a 3AJ Tenere & a TT600 Belgarda.

And there have been a couple of catastrophic failures in the same area due to the balance shaft key sheering & then that just detonates the engine case.

I wouldn't necessary cal lit a "weak spot" if everything is within spec & maintained its a strong engine, but if something goes wrong (bearing, key way etc) that is where the case will fail.

Mezo.

traians 17 Jun 2020 15:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612197)
first time i ever seen this type of failure and i run some heavily stressed XT based engines in my supermono and supermoto,



doesnt mean it cant happen, as we see.


im always more interested in the "why?"


one reason i can think of is heavily lugging at low rpm, but not that provable.


when you take the motor appart, check the right main bearing fit in the new cases, if its too loose, that could be another reason.



ok, thanks I will check.
I used the bike as everyday ride for 2 years, and after 3 months of buying it I rebuild the engine, but dint change the timing chain, so in august last year I put the timing chain new, and I used to ride everywhere in Dominican Republic, and I was about to sell the bike before the engine started vibrating when you rev it, I thought it was a bearing but the right crankcase is cracked almost breaking part.
I am still waiting for the mechanic to disarm the engine

N67 17 Jun 2020 19:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo (Post 612201)
Well if its going to go, it will go around that area as all the ones ive seen have done so right in that same spot (around the balance shaft) my 600E, a 3AJ Tenere & a TT600 Belgarda.

And there have been a couple of catastrophic failures in the same area due to the balance shaft key sheering & then that just detonates the engine case.

I wouldn't necessary cal lit a "weak spot" if everything is within spec & maintained its a strong engine, but if something goes wrong (bearing, key way etc) that is where the case will fail.

Mezo.
got it. thanks a lot.

traians 18 Jun 2020 12:56
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo (Post 612171)
Sorry i missed the year, so the main difference is how the clutch is operated, on yours the 4PT it is from the RH side & on previous models its from the LH side, i dont not know if this makes any difference internally though? i will try & find out if the case are the same.

EDIT: I sent Geoff a message so he may chime in soon with your answer.

Mezo.

I found this lower engine 3tb on ebay, you think i can use this. It says they took it from a 1996

turboguzzi 18 Jun 2020 15:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo (Post 612201)
Well if its going to go, it will go around that area as all the ones ive seen have done so right in that same spot (around the balance shaft) my 600E, a 3AJ Tenere & a TT600 Belgarda.

And there have been a couple of catastrophic failures in the same area due to the balance shaft key sheering & then that just detonates the engine case.

I wouldn't necessary cal lit a "weak spot" if everything is within spec & maintained its a strong engine, but if something goes wrong (bearing, key way etc) that is where the case will fail.

Mezo.

Mezo, not really following you here... the crack in Traians case is around the main crank bearing, not the balancer shaft.... are we talking the same failure here? or is it just my bad eyesight? :) started wearing reading glasses lately...

Mezo 19 Jun 2020 00:32
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612272)
Mezo, not really following you here... the crack in Traians case is around the main crank bearing, not the balancer shaft.... are we talking the same failure here? or is it just my bad eyesight? :) started wearing reading glasses lately...
Well around that area, mine was the same place as his but hairline cracks, his is a very bad crack, but they all seem to be on the RH side.

And traians, G30ff is going to chime in soon (hopefully) in regard to the 3TB engine & whether it can be used, he`s forgotten his password for the site but stay tuned.

Mezo.

G30ff 20 Jun 2020 00:04
Hi Traians

If you're going to fit the complete bottom end in your bike then I'm sure it will be fine, you will need to remove any clutch operating mechanisms on the 3TB and fit the blanking plugs from your engine... you may need to buy new ones if you can't get them out.

You will need to check the condition of the 3TB... gearbox, small end, etc.

It would be preferable to fit a 4PT if you can find one..

Out of curiosity is the primary drive nut still tight on your engine?

Geoff

Grant Johnson 20 Jun 2020 00:23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezo (Post 612282)
he`s forgotten his password for the site but stay tuned.

Mezo.

Tel him to TRY and login with ANYTHING and he'll get an opportunity to reset his password - and find out his username if need be, so long as his email address is still valid! If not write me direct with details.

Mezo 20 Jun 2020 00:27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant Johnson (Post 612299)
Tel him to TRY and login with ANYTHING and he'll get an opportunity to reset his password - and find out his username if need be, so long as his email address is still valid! If not write me direct with details.
He`s back in Grant, post above.

Cheers anyhow.

Mezo.

traians 20 Jun 2020 02:02
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by G30ff (Post 612298)
Hi Traians

If you're going to fit the complete bottom end in your bike then I'm sure it will be fine, you will need to remove any clutch operating mechanisms on the 3TB and fit the blanking plugs from your engine... you may need to buy new ones if you can't get them out.

You will need to check the condition of the 3TB... gearbox, small end, etc.

It would be preferable to fit a 4PT if you can find one..

Out of curiosity is the primary drive nut still tight on your engine?

Geoff

Thank you very much! My mechanic just send me the picture of the crankcase, its just cracked so maybe im going to repair it. The best crankcase that i found was the one i send earlier.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F293299270050

I dont put a 4pt because i don’t find one, in dominican republic we dont have parts of this bike. The mechanic send me a picture he disarm the complete engine, tomorrow ill go and send you more pictures.

turboguzzi 20 Jun 2020 13:09
use welding as your very very last solution...


even if it's "just cracked", the temperatures of welding can distort the cases, change the tolerance of the bearings fit, etc.


a good welder will preheat the complete cases before welding so there is less distortion



of course that if you dont have another solution it is better than nothing.

Mezo 21 Jun 2020 00:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612309)
of course that if you dont have another solution it is better than nothing.
That`s what i was thinking, worth a try i guess? but looking at his first picture is that a couple of hairline cracks i see? to the right.

Mezo,

traians 23 Jun 2020 21:15
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612309)
use welding as your very very last solution...


even if it's "just cracked", the temperatures of welding can distort the cases, change the tolerance of the bearings fit, etc.


a good welder will preheat the complete cases before welding so there is less distortion



of course that if you dont have another solution it is better than nothing.


Hi, mi brother took the cranckcase to get it repair, and its impossible ill have to buy one, the crank bearing has some freeplay.
I think im going to order the 3tb low engine because i dont find another one.

nickargas 25 Jun 2020 17:10
Quote:
Originally Posted by traians (Post 612385)
Hi, mi brother took the cranckcase to get it repair, and its impossible ill have to buy one, the crank bearing has some freeplay.
I think im going to order the 3tb low engine because i dont find another one.
hello from Greece ! well xt is very popular here in Greece so we have a lot of used parts.

the site that we use both for cars and bikes is called car.gr

after 5 mins of searching i found this one

https://www.car.gr/parts/view/647091...t600-papagalos

hope it fits!

turboguzzi 28 Jun 2020 12:16
long time nick! still riding like a hooligan?


:)


sending an engine from Greece to the Dominican Republic will not be cheap...

traians 28 Jun 2020 14:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612481)
long time nick! still riding like a hooligan?


:)


sending an engine from Greece to the Dominican Republic will not be cheap...
Hi
I found this crankcase cover, are the same code as my engine, but how i buy and ship to DR or to United States.


www.car.gr/d10768329

traians 28 Jun 2020 14:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickargas (Post 612414)
hello from Greece ! well xt is very popular here in Greece so we have a lot of used parts.

the site that we use both for cars and bikes is called car.gr

after 5 mins of searching i found this one

https://www.car.gr/parts/view/647091...t600-papagalos

hope it fits!

Thanks!!!

I found one with the same engine code,


www.car.gr/d10768329

But i dont know how to buy it and ship it to United States or Dom rep.

nickargas 28 Jun 2020 20:49
Quote:
Originally Posted by traians (Post 612487)
Thanks!!!



I found one with the same engine code,





www.car.gr/d10768329



But i dont know how to buy it and ship it to United States or Dom rep.
Send them an email and ask them about shipping costs. I'm not close, I live 400 miles away, otherwise I would stop by personally.

Sent from my MI 8 using Tapatalk

traians 1 Jul 2020 23:28
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickargas (Post 612501)
Send them an email and ask them about shipping costs. I'm not close, I live 400 miles away, otherwise I would stop by personally.

Sent from my MI 8 using Tapatalk
thanks!!!

I have send them 2 emails and they don't answer.

right know my only option is the lower engine found on eBay, that engine seems to have the cable clutch in the right side like my engine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29329927005...1&isGTR=1#shId

traians 3 Jul 2020 14:02
2 Attachment(s)
Look at the engine

Over the bearing crankshaft is the problem.

I tried to buy the lower engine but is impossible to ship it to me. So i need to fix my cranckcase .

turboguzzi 3 Jul 2020 17:35
heat the crankcases with a propane torch and drive out all the beairngs first as well as remove the oil pump.


after that, take a picture from the inside too.


in orfer for the weld bead not to stick out, you or a machinist need to make a V groove into the material.



and like i said before, ask the welder to slowly heat the whole case so it doesnt distort, dont let him start welding without doing it.

nickargas 4 Jul 2020 08:00
i'm always online my friend keeping up with posts that i could help and chat!

come to Crete (that goes for everyone here too) and let's ride together man!

now i'm currently trying to set up my single fcr 39 on my xt.

fiddling with the air and idle etc.

it's a beast and i'm sure you would love riding it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612481)
long time nick! still riding like a hooligan?


:)


sending an engine from Greece to the Dominican Republic will not be cheap...

traians 6 Jul 2020 13:00
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612665)
heat the crankcases with a propane torch and drive out all the beairngs first as well as remove the oil pump.


after that, take a picture from the inside too.


in orfer for the weld bead not to stick out, you or a machinist need to make a V groove into the material.



and like i said before, ask the welder to slowly heat the whole case so it doesnt distort, dont let him start welding without doing it.

thanks!!! I'll do that. I take pictures and upload them here.

Mezo 6 Jul 2020 13:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612665)
heat the crankcases with a propane torch.
The propane torch was my late fathers most useful tool (along with mothers freezer). :thumbup1:

MEZ PORTING HOME PAGE

Mezo.

turboguzzi 6 Jul 2020 21:05
WOW, hat is off... of course heard about him, i do vintage road racing...


Did you follow his steps into porting?


I do my own, even built a flow bench, but always good to hear from somebody so close to a master!

Mezo 7 Jul 2020 09:33
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboguzzi (Post 612744)
WOW, hat is off... of course heard about him
I sent you a PM, didn't want hijack the thread.

Mezo.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:15.


vB.Sponsors