XT600e oil leak
 

I know this issue has been raised before but I can't find the thread.
My 2002 XT600e leaks oil like a sixties British twin. It is coming out the engine breather via the air filter.
Put in new piston and rings, honed the bore and refurbished the head with new seals etc. But it still squirts out enough oil onto the rear tyre to give me the odd scary corner!
I see from other threads that overfilling can be a problem but I've checked this carefully and, in any case, the problem has only manifested itself after about 45000 km.
Any advice will be appreciated.

My first thought on this is that your oil scavenge is not working like it should, leading to a high volume of oil in the crankcase, therefore high crankcase pressure and oil breathing into the air filter compartment.
Take the bike for a short (10-15 mins) run then remove the crankcase oil drain plug and see how much oil comes out, it shouldn't be very much .. half a jam jar or so. (sorry for the imprecise measurement)
If you have more than this, suspect the oil pump.
Hope this helps

Thanks
 

Thanks, Lawries - that is a precise and understandable solution. I'll give it a go.

Oil leak
 

Hey mate,
Did you find the problem and cure? I'm interested as I have oil regularly in the airbox. The oil level is good, I've even let it go low to see if it does the same, Checked the oil crankcase breather and some, a bit, comes out each time.
I'm in Timbuktu and buggered if I want the engine to go bang way out here but then again I might take up the offer of 3 camels and a Tuareg wife for the bike just to shut them up!

Cheers!

It's a long story!
 

Have just tried Lawries's test. 500ml came gushing out the crankcase before I blocked off the drain. In short, it might be what we used to call "wet sumping" on old British dry sump bikes. The difference is, when those old bikes' crankcases filled with oil, you struggled to start them, and when you did, oil came pissing out everywhere, including great clouds of blue smoke from the exhaust. The XT doesn't show any symptoms like this - just the leak from the breather.
The old Triumphs, BSAs and Nortons had a valve to prevent oil draining from the tank back to the crankcase, which used to pack up. The XT manual makes no mention of such a valve.
The mechanic who services my bike spoke to old Yamaha hands in SA and they told him to be careful not to overfill the oil. This is the same advice I have seen a few times on this site. I am advised by these guys to only check the oil after running the bike for 10 minutes. So, this morning, I check the dipstick and it is absolutely dry - not a drop of oil on it. I ride the bike for 10 minutes, expecting it to seize at any time, check the level again and it is way over the max mark on the dipstick! I drain the 500ml out of the crankcase as mentioned above and the level is still over "max".
The XT manual says nothing about checking the oil only after running the bike and, in fact, for years (with the same mechanic) I've checked the oil "cold" and the bike has run very nicely without leaking.
So, when the bike is cold, the oil reservoir is empty. When the engine is warm, both the crankcase and reservoir have more oil than they should. And yet, the bike goes very nicely! Is this what they call an Act of God?
Lawries, if your diagnosis is correct, what do I do to fix it?
Geoffshing, beware the Tuareg wife, she is probably also a thumper with a few leaks!

Hey Stu,

I am also familiar with the old twin "wet sumping" problem having cut my teeth on Triumph twins of a certain age, and I know how to fix the problem but ...

I'm not so sure how to fix the problem on an XT. I believe I have seen questions about a non-return valve for the oil tank on the forum before and think the consensus is that one exists even tho it's not mentioned in the manual. If memory serves me right it's positioned at the bottom of the front fork tube where the oil way connects. But, I'm vague on this.

If you don't get any clarification on this forum, I suggest you contact David Lambeth and ask him as he seems to be the font of all knowlege for XT's :)

DAVID LAMBETH RALLY & OVERLAND

Good luck!

Thanks
 

Thanks, again, Lawries. Do you get the impression, like me, that there are probably 1000 Yamaha people who know exactly the answer to this, but keep quiet. It seems to me, that whenever there is a hassle with a vehicle, however minor, the factory and dealers enter into a conspiracy to deny its existence.
If a petrol attendant checks the oil level of my Subaru (I've had four - they're all the same) he'll insist that it needs at least another pint, perhaps two. However, if you take his suggestion you'll be way over the max level because it takes about an hour for the oil to dribble from the horizontal opposed cylinders back into the sump. That's fine, if you know, but the manual is silent on this point and the dealers pretend it's the first time they've heard of it!
I, too, remember a discussion on whether there was a non-return valve in the oil line. Strange that nobody seems to know for sure.
Thanks, again, for your interest.

I haven't seen any non-return valve. Only if it's inside of the oil tank, at the outlet from the frame.

From my owner's manual:

To check the engine oil level:

1. Place the motorcycle on a level surface and hold it in an upright position.

2. Remove the oil filler cap cover by removing the screw.

3. Start the engine, warm it up for at least 10 seconds, and then turn it off.

4. Wait a few minutes until the oil settles, remove the oil filler cap, wipe the dipstick clean, insert it back into the oil filler hole (without screwing it in), and then remove it again to check the oil level.

NOTE: The engine oil should be between the maximum and minimum level marks.

Hope this helps.

That pesky oil pump again
 

I used to have this "where the f*** has all the oil gone?" problem - i.e. nothing on the dipstick = nothing in the tank, but I'm damn sure there's the right volume of oil in the bike.

I rationalised this as having too-big clearances in the oil pump, so the oil could 'run downhill' past the knackered pump, into the sump. So I changed the oil pump (yep, clearances were out of tolerance). Problem solved - oil now stays in the tank.

Did this entail a full engine stripdown to get to it?:funmeterno:

I think this may be my problem. I had to add 4 litres at a recent oil change to get the oil up to the correct level in the tank, which by my estimation is about a litre too much. And then, of course, it pumps it all out into the airbox when running.

New oil pump - how easy is that, then?

Easy peasy - just take the RH side cover off and you'll find it nestling innocently just in front of the clutch.

If ya want to check if your oil pump is working as it should just put the bike running for a few minutes or ride it a few minutes.

Than, with the bike on the stand (side or central stand) remove the bolt on top off the oil filter housing. NOT one of the 3 long bolts that hold the cap on but the little bolt on TOP of the housing.

You should get dirty doing this as it should "geyser" out some considerable oil hot-spring!! lol


Vando:innocent:

Sounds like it's easy enough, even for me! Thanks.

Qed?
 

Thanks to all who've taken the time to participate - I think we've reached a conclusion! Which is:-

As the XT600e ages, its oil pump "leaks", allowing too much oil in the crankcase, some of which is expelled via the breather, and too little oil in the reservoir, causing us to scratch our heads and top up too generously.

The gradual wear in the oil pump explains why some of us experience a greater problem than others eg, BlackdogZulu, my motor needs to run for 10 minutes rather than seconds to bring the reservoir level up. Also, my pump is still strong enough to dribble oil out the breather above the filter - which is why I thought it was OK.
I suppose I'm pleased at having spent the bucks on new piston and rings and a refurbished head but I now feel confident that money spent on the oil pump will cure the problem.
Thank you! Thank you!

Well, I checked the oil as per book this weekend, and I couldn't get it to show on the dipstick at all. I topped it up with all I had (which was the half-litre I drained out following the last post). That's with a full 4 litres in from empty. When I ride it a bit tomorrow, I'm sure I will check it again and find the level way too high.

Dontcha love bikes with "character"?

Haha. Ran the bike last night for 20-30 seconds, left it 5 minutes, no oil on the dipstick. Ran it hard for 30 minutes this morning, left it 5 minutes, checked the oil, bang on the full mark.

The XT Oil Fairies must have filled it up overnight.

Zulu to Zulu
 

BlackdogZulu, with the help of a couple of guys like Lawries, I think the solution is within our grasp.
The manual gives max clearances for the oil pump but "my mechanic" has worked on bikes for 30 years and says he has never yet had to "mike" the insides of an oil pump.
A new one, here, is R700 ($70), imported from Japan in 3 weeks, which sounds like the way to go.
Incidentally, I live in KwaZulu/Natal. "KwaZulu" means "home of the Zulu" so give me a shout if you want me to look up any of your relatives!

Hi Stu - sounds like you are right on this one. A new oil pump won't break the bank. And if it's a doddle to fit, well, so much the better.

Thank you for your kind comments about my relatives! I'll pass them on the real Zulu - my dog. He is a "black dog", and when we named him we were going through various silly options (the daft stuff you do when you're in a car with a tiny Lab puppy weeing in your lap) and we went through all the Star Trek names. We sort of settled on Mr Sulu, after rejecting all the others, but my wife (not a Trek fan) misheard, and he's been Zulu ever since.

I've been advised by friends in certain parts of the UK that this name would offend some people, but it was certainly not meant disrespectfully. In fact, in Wales, where I live now and where my wife is from, the Zulu nation are objects of great respect and admiration, after the battle at Rorke's Drift. Luckily, he also responds to being called "Zu", so when we are out and about that's what he's called.

I'll have to start calling our house KwaZulu :-)

Attempted picture
 

BlackDogZulu, I'm struggling to attach a picture of Isandhlwana where the Zulus wiped out the central column invading Zululand under Lord Chelmsford. The Zulus were then repulsed at Rorke's Drift, where eleven VCs were awarded to the defenders.
You should come for a ride here.

Cool picture! Thanks - that's now my desktop background on my work PC (it's damp and cold here, and I like the warm feeling). As to a ride there - you bet. Never been to SA, and always wanted to. One day ...

Reliable method to check oil level
 

Hi,

Having owned and looked after a XT600Z Tenere and XT600E for about 10 years, I have found that the following is the only reliable method of checkinh the oil level:

To get a true oil level reading you must ride the bike for at least 10 minutes, let it tick over for 30 seconds or more while holding the bike verticle and check using the dip stick that is part of the oil filler cap as soon as you switch the engine off. You must hold the bike vertical and don't screw the cap on, just rest it on top to make the reading.

Yamahas recommended method just doesn't work, at least once there is a bit of ware in the oil pump.

The one way valve that has been mentioned is, I believe to stop oil draining from the top of the engine, not to stop oil leaking out of the oil tank, past the oil pump and into the engine.

It would appear that if you have a bad case of wet sumping that replacing the oil pump would be the obvious thing to do, but when I did this with my Tenere I still had to check the oil level as described or the oil level would be lower than the dip stick could reach.

I now check my oil level at the end of a ride, instead of at the start.

I'm not sure what the mechanic meant when he said he had never needed to mike an oil pump, but I'm guessing that my experience is fairly typical and that the scoring / pitting makes it obvious that it needs replacing without taking any measurements.

Hope this helps

Mark

The truth slowly emerges.
 

"Yamahas recommended method just doesn't work, at least once there is a bit of ware in the oil pump."
That's a bit irritating, isn't it?
Thanks, Mark, I think we're getting to the bottom of this whole oil thing now.
I have a manual for the bike which gives some fairly accurate and fine measurements for checking if the oil pump needs replacing and asked my mechanic (who is "old school") if he would be able to take these measurements. That was when he said he'd never found it necessary to measure the moving parts of an oil pump before.
I think you've summarised the discussion nicely. As your oil pump wears, your "cold" oil level will drop. Don't top it up - until you have run the bike for ten minutes and checked again.

non return valve
 

Hello, the non return valve is in the crankcase mating flange. Remove the clutch cover and look around this face. It is a rubber ring about the size of a ten pence piece with a steel ball in the centre. poke it with something to make sure it's seating properly. If it's screwed you can get a new one from Kedo.de. they cost a couple of quid at most.:thumbup1:

Thanks to all for the helpful posts.