XT 600 dies on me....
 

Hi guys,

I'm new here. Hope you guys doing gr8! Hppy new year!

I'm a bit frustrated with my bike. I'm trying to fihure out what's going on with it, but it dies when i open it. Can't go above 50mph....

So i can drive slow everywhere, but as soon as i give petrol, it diez...:(

I did put a new airfilter in, service the bike, but that did not help.

I THINK it's the carb and it might be the needle & seat that is finished...?

I did try to change the pin to different levels on the ''jet needle assembly'', but that did not work. It's rather other way around.... It does not get enough petrol then to go anywhere....

Jets - I bought it and it was fine, but just wondering if there is a standard jet...

Anyway. It would be very helpful if anyone can advise me how to fix this.

O yes. XT 600 Yamaha , 1988 model.

Cheers

Kwagga

Sounds carb related. I would take out the primary jets in both carbs and clean them and everything else.

Check fuel flow from tank....... Take off the pipe from tap to carb, and see if fuel flows nice & fast.... Check filler cap air vent, incase its blocked, causing a vacuum & slowing fuel flow.

Any other symptoms.... black smoke from exhaust? Try putting choke on at higher speed to see if makes any difference?

Hi Kwagga,

Seems that carby problems are taking their toll at this time of year it is winter in the north so condensation could be a problem, :confused1:

My questions are did this problem just start or did it happen when you did something else before this happened?
Check to ensure that you dont have an air leak on the inlet manifold

Sounds like it is starving for fuel, so what’s stopping the fuel?

• I can see no reason to change anything if this was not a previous problem
• Do you have the same result with the tank switched to reserve?
• If it just started did it start after you fuelled it up?
• Did you drain the fuel and check for water or dirt?
• Do you have a filter in the fuel line? If not you should have….. if you do check the filter
• Should the needle and seat be a problem…. Only if it has some junk under the needle and it is over-fuelling the engine this is usually a problem at idle the needle and seat operate as a small valve and only allow sufficient fuel to enter the float bowl as required by the demand of the engine it usually cuts off the flow as less demand is placed on the fuel. Protect this by having a small filter in the fuel line
• Ensure there is sufficient flow from the fuel tank: - if fitted with a vacuum valve check that the valve is working by removing the fuel line at the carb and placing in a clean bottle or jar so that you can examine the contents. Remove the vacuum hose from the carby and provided that there is no fuel leaking from it suck the hose and see if fuel is released from the valve.
• When you start the bike with the air filters removed can you observe the carby pistons rising which cause the needles to rise and allow fuel air mixture to enter into the engine?
• Check the diaphragms by removing them and holding up to the light checking carefully that there are no holes or cracks in the diaphragms
• Check the vacuum placed on the diaphragms

Purchase an overhaul kit and completely strip the carbs and clean thoroughly looking for any abnormalities.
Hope this helps
In the spirit of good biking
Trust all goes well :D
Merry Xmas and look forward to an exciting new year

Champ :mchappy:

Thanks for the replies guys!

Ok:

Jens: I've asked the guys at the bike shop to clean the carb, so they did....

Pigford: I will do that and check it.
Symptoms, yes, if I stopped and gave too much petrol, the bike needs to get going again, but unless I use the choke, it would not go.... Yes, black smoke!

Globi:yes and will check that :-)

Champ: The problem just started suddenly. Did not change anything...
- Does not matter if the tank is switched to reserve.
- Starts normally when i fuel it up.
- Nope, did not drain it.
- No filter on the fuel line...
- I'll put a filter in :-) The guys who previously helped me fixing the bike said he thinks the neadle & seat is finished, i should replace it.
- Have not started the bike without the air filters....
- thanks for the advice!!

Thanks everyone. Will checkit out!

Kwagga

I had this exact issue and it turned out to be a blockage in a very HIDDEN fuel filter in the float bowl valve...

Loads of carb cleans miss it if they don't know its there.

It's common to gum and clog up !

Ok....

What's the best way cleaning it? How did u do it?

Cheers

kwagga

Hi Kwagga,

Google carberator Cleaning

1. Video results for carberator cleaning
Click on Vidio results for carburator cleaning and enjoy

Also Google Motorcycle carburettor maintenance and follow any of the self help videos

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-technical-articles/articles.htm

http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/carb-adjustment

Just a little test before you strip anything down :-

Start the bike and warm up … allow to idle spray some WD 40 around the inlet manifolds a little at a time and trying one inlet at a time where the maifolds joint the carby and again at the head … see what effect this might have on the bike. Note any changes and if revs increase it is likely that you have a leak around the manifold.

By having the exhaust pipes hot spray some liquid ether on the exhaust pipe near the head. The exhaust pipe should be quite hot and the ether should instantaneously evaporate if it doesn’t and visibly bubbles around this will indicate a cylinder with a problem.

I come from a mechanical background but have little experience on motor bikes so my knowledge is a collective from working on other engines.

• As an apprentice we are taught to start at the source and follow a system through. In this case the source is the fuel tank. Start there and make sure the
• petcock is clear and in good working order, drain the fuel and then remove the petcock,
• No filter:- Put one in, just a small inline filter throw away type
• Fuel pump if fitted ensure it is delivering fuel at the right pressure
• Having completed the test I suggested and having noted any changes then tackle the carbs:- the videos will clue you in as to disassembly and reassembly… ensure that replacement parts are available especially o rings gaskets etc (Full carby kits) as they should be replaced at this stage old O rings will leak when they are disturbed.
• As I said and the videos will back me up the Needle and Seat is usually only a problem when something is stuck under the valve and fuel will leak continuously from the carb.
• Follow the instructions for cleaning checking for abnormalities and where the fuel flows to the carbs for any tiny filters usually on the inlet to the Needle and Seat
• Note any adjustments as per video and you should be able to download a manual for your bike from the net this will have the set up procedure for your individual bike.

Just a little information here that may help: - I have a 1977 GS750 Suzuki and although I do most work my self things like multiple carb settings I leave to the experts.
I had a problem with the bike when I bought it was really running ratty hard to start needed choke and don’t touch the throttle or it would flood took ages to settle down once the engine started . I knew I had a CarbX4 problem and by the liquid tests I new I had a leaking manifold. The bike had been altered quite a bit , air box had been removed and pods fitted jets had been altered.
No self respecting Motor bike designer would design a bike to run like this believe me it was a pig.
When I took the carb’s off and the then the inlet manifolds, the O rings in the inlet manifold disintegrated in my hands. To get the bike back to somewhat near new I sourced an air box and put everything back to standard< I chose to have a well known Motorcycle mechanic Acid bath the carby’s and re-kit them the reason being why would I want to set this up and then in may be two years be on a RWT. These guys do this everyday and are aware of all the little individual tricks.
·When you reassemble the carbs take the time to fill the bowls with petrol an leave them stand for a while and ensure there are no leaks before putting them back on the bike Believe me its all part of the job and you may not want the practice of putting them back on the bike and having to remove them again.
· TUNEING It is likely that to get the best tune set up that you take it to someone who is experienced and NOTE WELL a bike that is running lean can burn valves and that is a problem that you don’t want.

By the way the GS now starts and runs as it was designed by the manufacturer, it is yet to be tuned and the carbs properly balanced. Tell you it is a shining black horse that wants to get up and go. Imagine being in the depths of nowhere and some unlikly charachters approach you wanting your wallet and your Rolex and you have an unreliable tired old machine that wont start and takes an hour to warm up and run properley.... not for me Sam I want to be out of there :scooter:

IF there is something that I can help with I will be watching the posts
Take care and I wish you all the best
Hope this helps

Kind regards
Champ:mchappy:

To clean (or remove as some do) the filter...

Take the carb off
Remove the float bowl
Remove the float valve by pushing the pin out.
Cant remember specifics, but its under the float valve.
Be careful not to bend the height adjustment tang or you will have to reset it

Just clean it in petrol or carb cleaner, blow it clean etc..


It's simple to do if you take you time and remember where everything goes !


If its not clogged or blocked, clean the rest of the carb out.

Hi Kwagga,

See item 43 in :-

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...tlout/h-06.gif[/IMG]

This is the valve that Ted refers to. The very small filter is the upper component of item 43 in the exploded detail, which blocks easily and causes fuel starvation.

Alec

Goodness me, you guys r awesome!

Thanks for the replies!

I have not had time yet to fix it, so this morning in to work I stopped 5 times!! It's a bummer when you r in all the busy traffic and your bike starts puffing, then you know......i've got a few seconds to get somewhere to park!!:palm::eek3:

Not nice, but i think i'll have to do it this Friday/Saturday....

Thanks again for the advice!!!

kwagga

ok....

Last night i thought i'll do it. Then i started checking the fuel tap. and it looks good. Petrol flow through well. Have not put a new filter in yet, but will do....

Then i took the carb off opened it and cleaned it like on the video's champ suggested. Everything was clean and i did not get anything that was clogged up....? So i've put everthing together again after alot and alot of frustration. Just rediculous to get that carb back. Such a mission that took me ages.

So i came to work this morning without stopping at least, but had to go very slow because of the snow, but i'll have to open it a bit and see if it performs good.....

Some things i was unsure of:

1. The float was not straight, but was basically lying on the bottom of the carb bowl. Is that suppose to be like that?

2. There's a little screw on the bottom of the carb, I think to tune it. Am i correct? How do i know then when it is correct?

3. Idling - It almost cannot idle... So, if i turn it up, does it make any difference to the performance or just the idling?

will keep you updated

kwagga

The screw poiten out to the left of the bike is to drain the carb.

Theres a CO screw (Airscrew, but it actually controls the petrol instead of air)

The Co screw is hidden in a slot on the carb, towards the front of the engine. Of you screw that screw out, the bike will burn richer (open p the fuel) if you screw it in, it will go leaner.

When its cold, the air is denser, and theres more "air" in the air, so ypu bike will burn leaner. And if you also have a low float setting it will be even leaner.

Perhaps a sparkplug check ? post a picture if you do, my guess is its white.

Try to adjust the CO screw out for half a round, see if it helps. It's a flat screw, and as i said, is well hidden. I'll try to get a pic.

Think this could be it.

*Edit*

Heres a beemer carb, dont mind the sizes and shapes, its only to give you the location in case you dont know:

http://peecee.dk/uploads/012010/coscrew.jpg

Do yourself a favor and check the cylinder compression of your piston!
how many miles/km does your bike have?




Hey guys.. it's been months..sorry, had no ISP...

Vando ;)

Thanks Jens!

I did fiddle with the air screw, but what happens now is that is started backfiring alot! Donno if that is because of too little or to much petrol....

Also still stop when i open it up....

[quote=bacardi23;271809]Do yourself a favor and check the cylinder compression of your piston!
how many miles/km does your bike have?

How do i check the compression mate?
I have 33000miles on the clock Vando.

You will need a compression tester to check it, where abouts in London are you I run a small motorcycle workshop and have one if your stuck but im in Essex.

You say it's a 1988 XT600, is it a standard model or a Tenere ? If it's a Tenere, take a look at the fuel pump. I had similar problem with my Tenere, ran fine at low speed but lost power when I opened it up. I cleaned the carb and filter, no change. I then had a look at the fuel pump, it was full of muck (mostly crumbs of paper that had previously been the inline fuel filter). cleaned it and the bike ran perfect...

Thats usually when its running too weak !!! Also turning down the idle speed a bit can help :thumbup1:

If it backfires more when cold, then lean, more when hot, then rich. According to this website.


To set idle mixture, I turn the idle screw into until the bike starts to run roughly and unevenly, then wind it out until it smooths off, then perhaps a 1/4 turn more...

Compression: need a compression guage: easily bought from Amazon.co.uk

Screw it into the sparkplug port, open the throttle wide and press the starter button (you will need to disconnect the wires to the ignition coil otherwise you'll still get a spark: not good!!). Wait until the guage reading stays levels off. I'm no expert, but that is the gist of it...

Also, do it with the engine warmed up :thumbup1:

ok guys, i think i got the problem!!

It still needs a good tune, but now it runs good already and no stopping! heeee-haaaa!!!

Before i could not get the problem after cleaning the carb and the petrol tank, new airfilter and all. Checked the compression etc etc. Everything was fine, but it stopped all the time now even when i go slow....

So I went to Trix'es place and we did the compression test there. (Thx mate!) He then advised me to get a refurb kit for the carb and i did.

So today I got it and thought, ok, let me take this sucker of and clean it again and just replace the new parts(float thingy) and hopefully this sorts it out!

So i took it all off and cleaned it and came across this:
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1088/fault.jpg

But before i could get there i saw the screw was stripped and i never bothered to try and get in there........

So i took the iron saw and cut a groove in the stripped screw so i can loosen it. Worked well. When itook it of, there it sat! One thick piece of crap sitting on that little filter! No wonder!:eek3:

Quickly put it back together and whalla!!!!! :thumbup1:

So yeah, it runs ok now, but as i say, just need to tune it then it'll motor again!!!

Thanks again and again for all the replies. Helped me alot and I learned alot!!

Hope this might help someone else in the future!

Cheers

Kwagga:clap:

HAH ! Thats exactly what I told you to check 2 weeks ago :smartass:


It's a very common problem on the XT. Many people just bin that filter.

Nice find!! -- and thanks for sharing.

Does anyone know if this little filter is in all XT’s and TT's or only the older models?

Was in my 2003 model and that was the last of the XT600E's.

Glad to hear you got it sorted

Sadly I am returning again with the problem with my XT.

Is was fine for a little while, but now something totally different is wrong again. When i came to my bike the next day, the petrol was all over the tarmac.....all leaked out of the carb....So i took it off again, checked everything and put it on again. Still leaking....:(!

Ok, so i tried to get to work like it was and what a mission. When i open the throttle, it dies. Way too much petrol. I took the carb off again put another seal in and some silicone to seal it. Done. Nicely sealed.

Now still it just puffs and backfires and dies very easily.

I took it in, and they struggle to fix it. Doono what it is.

If anyone can help again plz, that'll be MUCH appreciated.

cheers guys

kwagga

Sounds like the fuel valve is sticking or has dirt in it....... The bit that is worked by the float.

hi there it sounds like the fuel valve is sticking as pigford says, so take it out again and clean it also have a look in the fuel tank, you have either filled up with dirty fuel, easy to do if you filled up just after the tanker left the garage and there tanks are old the new delivery will have stirred up the dirt , so try changing garages . also your fuel tank maybe rusty and flakes will continue to block the carb until you clean the tank out and seal it will some kind off sealer , try undoing the drain screw on the bottom of the carb and catch the fuel in a clean container to see what is in the carb , also run a little fuel through with the screw out this can flush any small bits of dirt out . zigzag

Cheers guys,

I was so fed-up with the bike, i took it to the bike shop again and said they must sort it out. Donno what they did, but it runs like something of another planet once it is heated up...... When it is cold i have to rdie with the choke out at least for 5 mins or so....

Never use to work like that, but hey....it works! :scooter:

Start very easy as well. Use to kick a bit b4.

laters

kwagga

Hi Kwagga,
:thumbup1:

Frustrating Eh!! You gave it a real good try and good on you… so things to consider if this happens again…… If you bin the filter and it the fuel system ie tank to carby.... still has crap coming through the system where is that crap going to end up In your fuel valve / "needle and seat" and then in the jets of the carburetor.

The Needle and seat are there to control the fuel flow through the carb and it only takes a small hair or flake of some sort to keep the needle off its seat. Tus fuel continues to flow out the carb and onto the floor.

The fuel can only enter the carb through the fuel hose leading to the needle and seat there are no other places for the fuel to enter the carb.

I have a set of similar carb’s so I dismantled one and had a look…. There is an O ring around the fuel valve and if this is not in good condition then fuel will leak past the valve and flow over the floor.

Provided the float was working properly when you installed it, it should hold enough pressure against the needle to keep the fuel from flowing into the float bowl or chamber. The part removed by the four screws.

I Suggest using selastic or any other sealing compound in or near the carb is not the way to go except for the most severe emergency as this may cause other problems….like a piece lodging itself between the needle and seat or in one of your jets.

When dismanteling and cleaning a cara a good thing to do is to get a carb kit and replace the O rings and gaskets.... there are kits with screws etc and these can also be replaced when you clean the crab as any movement in the O rings can disturb them and cause leakage.

Always when there is crap in the little filter clean backwards through the carb and back to the tank, its blood flowing to the heart of your engine it needs to be clean (analogy only) as I suggested to you go to your bike shop and get a small filter and fit it in the fuel line to the carb.

As for running on Choke the only thing that the mechanic may have altered would be the float level and this may be a little low causing the bike to run lean until everything heats up, even the fuel will heat in the bowl, if your not happy with running on choke and the bike is warm then go back to the mechanic and take it up with him if he has altered the float level by adjusting the “Tang” on the float if you don’t feel that you have the right answer certainly make contact through the site and seek another mecs opinion.
a goo thing to do is when you have assembled the cabs is to test for leakage. Take a Coke bottle drill a hole in the cap a little smaller than the fuel hose. poke the hose through the cap about one inch and seal with selastic..... let it set overnight ....and then put petrol in the bottle and with the hose attached to the carb inlet turn the bottle upside downan dtest for leakage. leave the bottle hanging up ao that it is above the carbs and the carbs should be level as though they were attached to the bike, leave it overnight and check in the morning . if anything is leaking then fuel will be all over the place. just 6ml not the whole tank :clap:

Very happy that you have it fixed so you can ride it and good on you for having a go

:D

Kind regards

Cheers
Champ :mchappy:

anyone wanna come over for Barbeque??

Today is the day this bike is going to be roasted if he doesn't stop his crap.:clap: :nono: lol :-)



Thanks for the replies guys! I have not read them yet. Will do now, because this week was hectic busy and the bike made it even worse.

This afternoon i'm gonna try and dig into the thing again to fix it. Lets see what happens.

Laters

kwagga

ok, i have done what you guys said, but it did not make any change....

Thanks for the advice again! :-)

I will try and get another carb for the bike and see if this would help...

Cheers :-)

kwagga

Hi guys,

I'm selling my XT if anyone is interested. I'll buy another bike. Cannot be bothered to fix it.

XT600 YAMAHA WHITE / RED 1988 ENDURO XT 600 on eBay (end time 20-Feb-10 12:26:28 GMT)

Thanks for the advice!

kwagga