Starting problem - solenoid?
 

Hi,

The other day I went to start up my 2003 XT 600E after a few months inactivity. I have been charging the battery every now and then. Before starting I checked its voltage - about 12.5v

The engine turned over a few times, without catching, then died, just making a clicking noise. After a few moments I tried again and the engine turned over as before, then the starter started dying as though the battery was out of charge. When I released the starter button the starter motor continued to try to crank the engine, before dying altogether.

I checked the battery and it had become completely discharged (in a few seconds). I recharged the battery off the bike overnight. When I tried to put the battery back in it sparked at the terminal and started cranking the starter motor even though I was not pushing the starter button, so I removed the battery again.

I figured that there must be a short somewhere in the system and wondered if my solenoid was knackered. I removed it from the bike and put twelve volts through it and it seemed to work OK. When I put it back on the bike - nothing. It's as though the switch is sticky and gets stuck in either the on position or the off position.

I'm not very good at electrics and wondered if anyone had encountered something similar or could shed a little light? New solenoids are £40! Many thanks in advance!

Matt :)

Starter Relay HS
 

Hi Matt ,

I am almost 100 % sure it's the starter relay , it happens to me 3 times before I figure it out!

When the battery is too weak for some reason it damage the relay, I think it's because the current does not reach the starter motor well enough and "burn" the relay which stay on even after switching off like you describe it..

Gwel

Hi,
By the way I would change the batterytoo , because it may damage the new relay you will put on again.

gwel

Ditto. not an uncommon occurence then:eek3:

And what usually keeps the battery from being shot is the Regulator/rectifier which killed the battery and the battery killed the solenoid...lol

Damn. I can't stop laughing! That same thing happened to me, even with the key turned off the bike would keep trying to crank the engine....I got so nervous that I even threw the keys away and only found them about one hour later LOol :rofl:


Vando :D

You checked your spark plug matt? that was my down fall :(

Hi Matt, this sounds like the classic bolloxed battery, for starters, a good charged battery should be reading nearer to 13v, suggest that being the bike has stood a while that you clean all electrical connections from starter button, battery terminals through to starter motor and retry with fully charged battery and if it goes flat as quick as you say, then get a new battery, you may have damaged other components whilst making the system 'labour' underload from a stuffed battery. If a charged or new battery starts the bike fine, it may not be the end of the trouble as the 'full' power of the battery can mask another problem, like I found out on an airhead BMW, a new battery masked a starter motor fault.

TommyTommyTommy, the problem has occured long in the sequence before the spark plug.

sorry dave, Il try and remember to be less suggestive in the future.

The fact the solenoid stayed on leads me to believe the contacts have burned and have become 'sticky' Probably best to change it. One for an Enfield ( made by denso) is £25 from Watsonian squire. It may also be your battery is poor as evidenced by the bad starting. It is a shame you don't have a kickstart. Try bump starting the bike, should start easily. If not investigate that. This is a typical "one thing leads to another " scenario. That was common to old Brit bikes:)

When the relay is stuck, give it a dang with the end of a screwdriver. It happened to e 2 once. After a dang, and a freshly charged battery, it started over fine. And my battery was good, it crancked for what seems like forever, but was probably 2mins.

I have changed the relay since, just to be sure.

Mine acted intermitently for about 2 years, first thing 2 year ago the starter stuck on and nothing could stop it then 10 months ago nothing happened when I pressed the starter but 2 minutes later or 10 minutes later it would start working again that would happen over a two week period then was fine again for 6 months then I'm glad to say it packed in altogether in December so then I could properly test for the fault.

Funny thing I got quoted between £35 and £50 for aftermarket ones and the original Yamaha was £36

Being my first electric start bike are these starter problems common on all electric start motorbikes or is it because my TTR600RE is more Italian than Japanese ?

You can have a car 15 year old with the same starter and selonoid on it without any problems.

Our starter motors are smaller and more compact, and are loaded more.

The problem stems from the nature of having a smaller Ah batteries. (i.e. quicker to suffer voltage drop under load) The starter motor requires a certain amount of Watts to turn the motor over.
Governed by the following equation Watts = Amps x Volts it's fairly straightforward to see that as the battery voltage drops so the starter motor tries to pull more amps. This starts a vicious circle because it causes the battery voltage to drop lower etc etc. The outcome is

1) the starter motor is gonna get bloody hot bloody quick and start burning the commutator
2) The relay contacts literally weld themselves together (think arc welder here) hence the issue described.

As usual, brilliant replies and loads of info. Thanks again! Will have another look this weekend and check what charge the battery holds. Damn, a new battery and new solenoid would be expensive. The battery is a Saito and only 6 months old!

Matt :(

You can try and ask a friend that has an XT like yours ans swapp the parts!
anyway, if I were you, I'd also replace the reg/rectifier as I've had that same problem... changed solenoid, new battery and the problem was still there. solution was the reg/rectifier!


BTW...talking about batteries... Are there any smaller/lighter batteries that will work on the XT600E?

On my 1990 XT600E and I'll probably fit the battery in another place sooo...
I've modded my light switch and now I got an on and off for the headlights!
and fitted the kickstart on it..

?c?


Vando :innocent: