Is the WR250R worth the hassle over a CRF250L
 

Hello folks of HU.

Here's the script.

So me and the other half are about 6 weeks into our RTW adventure, all is well. We have decided that as our European leg of the trip comes to an end, in around another 8 weeks time, we will select a much smaller bike for the trans-Asian route. We are currently riding 2 x F800GS's.

Once our loop of Europe is complete we will head back to Scotland, as we have to anyway, to sort out a few recent Visa/Embassy issues.

And therein lies a problem. The WR250R by all accounts and reviews is by far the better bike of the two... aaaaand it's not available here in the UK. Great.

So I am wondering; Is the Yamaha so much better that it would be worth the extra hassle to source one from Germany/Holland/Poland etc. Have it carted all the way up here and registered in the UK, over just going for the CRF250L?

I have read extensively through the CRF250 and WR250 RTW/long haul reports and although both seem capable... the WR250R still seems to come out on top.

Worth the hassle? Is the WR250R really the smart mans 250 RTW choice?

Interestingly my other half, Kyla, who is on this trip with me has a brother in South Africa who is planning his own Trans-Africa adventure and is in EXACTLY the same situation. He is choosing between a CRF or a WR... and the Yamaha isn;t available in SA either. HA.

My 5 cents thoughts about it:

The Yamaha WR is better when it comes to weight as it is around 14-15 kgs lighter. Its better when it comes to power as it has 30,7 HP compared to the CRF that has 23 HP. The stock suspension is also of higher quality on the WR compared to the CRF.

The WR has also been longer on the market so theres more aftermarket alternatives although the CRF has out a few years now too and aftermarket stuff are probably readily available for it too. The one thing I have noticed is that the biggest aftermarket fuel tank for the Crf is the Acerbis 12,5 liter whereas I think you can get a 20-21 liter fuel tank for the WR.

When it comes to reliability Im not an expert at all but in general its hard to beat a Honda. But the Yamaha is probably great too.

Another factor that might count in - youre going to Asia and Southeast-Asia maybe? The Honda CRF are made in Thailand, and thus parts, accesories, tyres are readily available there and to a certain extend in neighbour countries, and bike mechanics that know that model well are "everywhere". The CRF are also sold in Malaysia and I belive to a certain extend in Cambodia and Laos too.

There is a welsh woman going RTW on and CRF and a dutch couple too - on two bikes of course. So theres someone to get in touch with and get first hand information and experience.

I think a 250 bike is a very good choice through Asia.

Interesting post. Wasn't aware of those main differences. Haven't seen the CRF up close. I think there is a couple going around Africa on them and can't remember reading about any trouble. I've got the WRR and love it. Super reliable. Lots of aftermarket options and rider's knowledge. The CRF has a rear tank option as well though, so you should be fine for fuel.

I think getting one from across the ditch shouldn't be that much of an issue. Hire a van and go for a weekend away. Not sure on registration requirements though. If it was me the ups outweigh the downs. Weight and suspension is everything. At first it won't matter because it'll feel featherweight compared to the BM. But you adjust quickly and suddenly you'll be looking for less weight still. I'm finding the WRR heavy now.

Your points seem to match my research. The only things the Honda has over the Yamaha is the fact that it is in fact a Honda, and thus trans Asian travel would be a dream for parts availability and local knowledge of the brand.

I've looked over all the CRF250L RTW reports and although they seem like a fine steed they are not without thier problems. The Dutch couple on the RTW ride have listed 6 failures on their site. I wonder how many more minor faults they have had.


Like I said above the dutch couple in Africa have reported 6 failures on their page with the CRF's.

Although of all the WR reports I am following I have only stumbled upon 1 major failure, although it was a complete engine failure at 30,000km.

I'd love to jump in a rental van and go scoop a couple WR's from Poland or something. I just worry about the Registration, tax and import issues. Plus the cost of travel, rental and hiking it home. Pair that with the fact that the WR is already +£1,500 more than the CRF it could turn out to cost double what the Honda's would.

Dammit Yamaha, you just ain't making this easy.

If I remember right Steph - the welsh woman riding RTW only had one major issue with her bike and was that the rear frame/subframe snapped. However she got it welded and reinforced quite easily even in Indonesia - so not that bad. And I think she is somewhere between 60-80 k miles on her bike by now. She just wrote that the valves had to be adjusted for the first time on the trip - and thats quite impressive.

The dutch man have had some issues with his CRF. But afaik and understand it was because the aurfilter somehow came loose a bit and let in dirty air in the engine. And of course after a while that caused some major issues.
The dutch woman havent had any problems and they are both 90 k kms +.

If the price is almost the double and its a lot of hassle getting hold of a WR I might have taken a CRF.

I haven't owned either, but I have ridden WRR's and have friends with both the CRF and the WRR, the WRR is probably the better bike to ride dirt on out of the box, but for a long trip like yours and with the lack of (cheap & easy) availability of the Yamaha I would go with the CRF and be happy that you are riding a Honda.

What price is the WRR in Europe? if it cheers you up I can buy a brand new WR250R here in Canada for 4,130 GBP or a CRF250L for 3,000 GBP, taxes in- out the door prices :)

I have ridden both bikes and they are both good. I rode a Honda xr250 baja which is close to the crf, across Sri Lanka and Cambodia. I rode it like it was my sportbike (tried anyway) on the highway and off road like my old paddle tired suzuki rm250 on sand dunes. That little bike took all the punishment I could throw at it and ran like a champ. In Asia they are everywhere parts are readily available and cheap. For the difference in cost I would go with the cheaper option because on the road you I think you would be happy with either one.

What are the registration issues? Have you contacted the DVLA? Didn't think within the EU there was import issues (might change in a week and a bit). You could also just fly in and ride it back.

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The WRR sells for between £4,800 in Poland, way up to £6,200 in Germany. so $8,750 - $11,300 Canadian. When it sold here in the UK my closest dealer in Edinburgh sold it for £6,100, so not far off the top of the scale.

Where do you see a price that low for out-the-door? Lowest I can see is about $8350 in Toronto/Ontario area. Are other Province's cheaper, perhaps? I'd like to look into the possibility of a Canadian bought bike to do the Americas on... I'd love a bit of help on the matter from a real Canadian!


You may be right. Trans Asia might make sense for Honda, and for the rest then it'd be an even keel.

I'll look over the CRF one more time!

In Alberta, Saskatchewan and a few other provinces you only pay GST (Goods and Service Tax) which is currently 5% compared to most other provinces where there is another sales tax of 7-8% on top - combined its called HST (Harmonised Sales Tax).
In Alberta a 2016 WRR is $6,999 CAD but there are nearly always deals to be had on the unsold previous years models still in stock with a few hundred bucks off and you can normally barter with a smaller dealer - especially around the time of the next years model coming out (i.e. picking up a 2015 when the 2017's come out)

Another awesome deal is the venerable DR650 available at $5,799 + pdi + taxes, which works out about ~ 4000 GBP out the door - however they do need a lot of modifications to make them decent.


2016 Suzuki DR650SE | dirt bikes, motocross | Edmonton | Kijiji


BTW Im British, but living in Canada :)

Very interesting. I knew the prices in Canada were good, but this is excellent info. Also the pound seems to be doing quite well over the CA$ just now so all the better.

Do you know what the rules are for registering a vehicle in Canada? Can we just use a PO Box address for our ownership papers etc?

In theory Yes, lots of people have a PO Box as their mail (Billing) address, but you do need to show proof of insurance and a valid drivers license when you register the vehicle

I think for registration it's just a case of how to attain a V5, costs, waiting time etc. It's hard to pijn down any real facts.

You are correct that there is no import duty, only registration fees.

Insurance as in valid vehicle insurance before you register the vehicle? Crazy!

Sounds easy enough.


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Just to clarify, our registration here = title/V5 it is a document that is renewed annually and our license plates carry both a year and month sticker to show the registration is current, not like in the UK where the V5 is valid for the life of the vehicle

Seems to me worth deciding whether this thread is to address issues of registration/insurance/licensing in a country not your own....or the original question about which bike is preferable.

Purchase and registration of bikes in Canada by foreign nationals has been talked about quite a bit. Same with purchase and registration in the USA. My personal boilerplate says "Do your own research," with particular attention to the actual regulations in each province or state. They differ, and you don't want to be holding the bag when you discover that what someone you never met told you in an internet forum doesn't actually apply wherever you've made your purchase.

Or, at a minimum, you could search the threads which directly address that issue elsewhere on the HUBB.

Hope that's helpful.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Well, it's kind of 2 issues really, rather delicately intertwined. What I want to know is if the WR has better suspension, better engine, better service intervals, and better aftermarket options etc then to what extent of hassle would the WR's better characteristics no longer be worth it, in a situation like mines?

I just wanted to know the opinions of fellow HU'ers; if they would book a flight, rent a van, roam the continent to negotiate foreign dealers and transactions all for the benefits that the WR over CRF.

I quite thoroughly searched not only HU. but in fact HU, ADV, TT and even the CRF forums looking for a similar debate. There was nothing specific. Which is surprising I guess everyone who wants a WR in the UK must face this same mental debate...

...unless of course they just buy a KLX250 and go against the grain!

WR has only slightly better suspension and anybody riding off-road will have to change suspension on either bikes,engine is no better just has more power unfortunately though no at the low end. WR has much worse (shorter) service intervals then crf250l. In the end IMHO WR250R is way too expensive for what it is. For normal trail riding get crf or klx.

Change suspension? Shorter service intervals? Are you thinking of the F?

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no, wr250r 6k km service interval, crf250l 12k km.

Interesting. Honda added additional oil capacity. About half a litre. Actually my manual says oil change every 5k. Can do that in ten minutes though.
What about the suspension?

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Interesting. I actually had assumed that the oil and filter intervals on the machines were the same, or that the WR was slightly better. I guess I was getting caught up in the 40,000km valve adjustments. Good to know about the oil. A nod to the Honda.

Suspension however? Most reviews hold the WR in higher esteem, mostly however over it's adjustability.

If I remember right (I did a bit of research on both these bikes myself at one stage)

WR: Oil change every 5 k km and valve check every 40 k kms
CRF: Oil change every 12 k kms and valve check every 24 k kms.

Then again - if one ride in a hot environment and with a bit of weight on the bike and maybe some highway miles - maybe someone would like to change oil more often than every 12 k kms on the Crf?

The CRF has a lower compression ratio than the WR (10.7 vs. 11.8) and a larger oil capacity (1.8 vs. 1.5 litres). Thus the oil doesn't work as hard as in the WR and would probably go the distance if you use good quality oil.

But the CRF is heavier than the WR and has less power, so the WR's power-to-weight ratio is much better,

Power vs Serviceability. Decisions decisions... Good luck :thumbup1:

although wr has ,more power, crf has better torque down the low, what really matters off-road.

Ok, now we're splitting hairs. Both these bikes aren't true trail bikes. I know because I tried to consider it one on a recent Baja trip and am now lusting for a beta. (It never skipped a beat though.) But I've never had a situation on my WRR where I felt, dang I wish i went for a crf for that little bit more torque.

Both these bikes are lightweight adventure bikes leaning more towards a trail bike than an adventure bike compared to any other adventure bike. But out of the two the yammy is marginally more trail bike than the Honda it seems. Pick your route and choose accordingly. The Honda wasn't around when I got my yammy but I'd still get the yammy because of its better spec and aftermarket support. Made concessions on spec in the past add it just ended up pissing me off. Don't see the dealings with a foreign bike as that much of a hurdle myself.

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Ooh i do love getting into the nitty gritty.

The only issue I think that hasn't been covered here is the known reliability issues.

The last 2 days I have trawled the CRF and WRR specific owners forums to see what the most common faults that rear their heads. For the WR almost all of the problems were related to the to '08 (release year) fuel pumps and chain skip on the ridiculous pyramid shaped rear sprocket teeth. I really can't find too many gripes for common faults.

But the forums for CRF it was mostly oil leaks, fork seals and top end issues.

I can't tell if if made my mind up. I feel there has to be some dirt on the WR that isn't widely reported. It looks like the greatest complaint is the lack of engine torque and the stock gearing. More often than not when I see a WR vs CRF thread the deciding factor in favour of the CRF was the simply the cost.

I'm still keen to hear about any shortfalls in the WR suspension though. Most reports I have seen have praised it greatly over the CRF and KLX.

yamaha reliability really dropped these days and wr has far more issues, most recent stators failure and recall which can leave you stranded.

Top end in crf??? never heard of, but I heard about tensioner issues.

That's news to me. I've heard fuel pumps on the older ones. They changed the part number I think. Biggest gripe for me is the chain guide even as it's a minor part. No excuse for not working out the geometry in design. Particularly nowadays with computer modelling.

Still haven't heard anything more about the suspension issues.

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I'd ride what has parts available locally where ever you're going: Things like brake parts, shift lever, oil & air filters, sprockets, shocks. Having those parts available locally is important for my choice. In any case, I do agree that a 250cc moto is a great bike for travel & exploration. If you pack light, there is no hesitancy to get off the main highways and ride where the heavily loaded travelers generally don't go.

OK So today I took the CRF for a test ride, since it's been the fist day that it hasn't been storm conditions for the last week and a half.

Thoughts: Now I can't tell if it's because i'm coming from an 800 GS Twin or not, but the CRF felt needlessly underpowered. It felt like it developed less power than a 15 year old carbed XR250L. Last year I owned a 2007 XR125L and that felt comparable to the CRF today. Surely that can't be right?

Power aside it did feel fine however. Ususal Honda build characteristics and I felt very at home on it. My first ever bike was a Honda and I have had many since then.

Tomorrow I will go test the KLX, as in the FI Euro version, so I will see how that compares.

There is no option to test the WR. It would be a leap of faith purcahse, or a short flight to another country for a test ride. Eek.

well, because it is and gearing is screwed too.

You could plan your next holiday around a wrr test ride.

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Compared to your 800 a Crf will feel gutless if course. You will have to use throttle and shift pedal much more often to keep up speed. And the speed of a 800 you will never keep up of course.

I havent owned a Crf but have been riding it as a rental for about 10 k kms and on highways I found a sweet spot around 95 km/h. You could of course push it harder but then the engine seemed to feel a bit stressed. Anyhow - as someone mentioned earlier in the thread - the Crf has more tourqe lower down than comparable bikes. Its actually a downtuned CBR250 engine. I found the power delivered in very in useful rpm range. I havent been riding the WR so cannot comment upon that. But have had a week on a KLX250. But it was the carburated model and the Crf beats that in all ways.

Some Crf owners do go down one tooth on the front sprocket - I guess good for offroading and around town riding but personally I wouldnt do that on a bike for overlanding. Have a go on a WR if possible and share your experiences....

Hey folks, another step forward.

So yesterday I test rode the KLX250, purely because I had nothing else to do. I took it out for about 40 minutes around town. I didn't get a chance to take off road, but I did find a very beat up farm access road so I flew up and down that a few times.

Keep in mind this is the FI Euro version of the KLX and not the carb'd American version.

I felt that it had a bit more power than the Honda certainly, but since I got it home I looked over the stats and they are only within 1-2HP or so. Strange to think how much that actually shows at the wrist.

The problem though is that of the 3 the KLX is perhaps the least likely candidate to replace the GS as a super-lightweigh RTW steed. Service intervals are much shorter, very few aftermarket parts here in the UK and the closest place I could get an IMS tank sent from would be USA.

*siiiiggghh*

It really is frustrating living in the UK. No dual sport market makes life hard when searching for a lightweight tour option.

I went into a Yamaha dealership yesterday and discussed the WR250R, he said he was shocked the 250 even existed because for only £ 800 more you could have got a XT660! He really didn't understand the concept of lightweight adventure.

Typical European thinking.

Well I give myself perhaps 2 more weeks of looking into my options and expenses regarding the WR. So far it's looking like a £12,000 bill to get a hold of USED bikes, never mind new. I could have 2 Used CRF's for £6,000.

I really need to get that figure well under £10k to make the Yamahas a feasible option.

oh please...do not sin, there are thousand of places more frustrating to live then UK :nono:

Get a KTM 690 enduro R, almost same weight as crf250l and you'll get guts to travel efficiently. 250cc is not meant for that.

Ehm, the kato is 310 pounds dry. The WRR is 295 wet. Bit of a difference.

No kidding. The main reason there is no 100kg 500cc long service interval offroad weapon. No other reason as a large part of the global market has nowhere to ride them.

I'll sell you mine with all the bells and whistles (overland ready) for a good price if you can wait until next year.

WRR is simply not worthy the money they're asking, and your dealer is right - you're better off buying xt660z which costs almost the same. (if you were to buy WRR)

BTW you can wait for new crf450 Rally coming soon from honda :)

completely different animal and way lower spec. And with that rational there is no point getting anything smaller than a 650.

The honda weighs 330 pound. Not even close to the mark.

Well, I dunno if my dealer was right to recommend me a 200kg lump when I asked about a 130kg trail bike.

Especially as I still have the dust in my hair from Russia on a 200kg machine, and he was sat on his arse in a computer chair.

The KTM 690 is certainly an option, but it's not just me on this expedition, If I were going alone I would be more seriously considering the KTM. My sidekick is Kyla; a a 130lb 21 year old female, who although just manhadled a F8GS around Eastern Europe, I think would struggle when the roads get reeeaally bad. I worry the extra 20kg on top of the 900+mm seat heights would cause problems.

Now a Honda CRF450 would be an amaaaaazing prospect. But I worry it will be just like the Yamaha WR450Rally, or the KTM450 Rally or any of the other 400+ Rally bikes that already exist for the public.


All I want is a WR450R or CRF450L...

I think I have to agree with you. Every extra lb in the machine is a lb you will wish you never had when you leave. That goes for kit, bike and belly fat!

Weight is actually the main reason I am considering 250's. I am not convinced by the power or it's merits on tarmac at all, although I am sure it's possible. But I just can't ignore 130kg wet weight. That's the holy grail of overland travel in the developing world.

Hmmm Nect year?... Can you bring it over next week?

You might have a long weight for either of those bikes unfortunately - Id be buying one too, as long as the motor is not too highly strung!


What is the price of the CCM 450 in the UK? I know they are expensive here in Canada ($12,000 + CAD)


At least with the WR250 you can easily put the Athena 290 kit in and give it a bit more pep :)

Sorry mate, but I'll drive it up your driveway after I ripsnort along the dirt tracks of Africa on it first. After that I'm done with adv riding and I'll be possibly getting a 100kg 500cc snorter and put up with the once a year piston change. Maybe once every 2 years.

I was quoted £9,000 for a 2016 CCM450. So about $17,000CAD....

I could pick up a few used ones, but they still sit upwards of £6,000.

Ouch!

If you have lots of time to do your trip then I would just go with the CRF, it will cost you a bunch more cash to get WR's sorted out and that is money that can be used to travel, at the end of your trip whichever bike you buy will be worth very little and need a full overhaul.

I still haven't seen numbers on it. Until then it's speculation.
If it does I agree.

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Well folks, it's a sad day. After around a fortnight of research I can announce that it seems that the WRR is, by almost all means and measures, not a viable option option for a UK based overlander.

Here's the problems for anyone else in my situation:

1 - The UK market has only a very limited supply of leftover '08 and '09 models left on the island. Most of these are high mileage, many never received the appropriate recalls and due to lack of supply are selling way too high. The best one I had seen was a 2009 with 7,000 miles, not in the best condition, no recalls complete... asking £3,000. But hey... At least it was never used off road right... right? :lol2:

2 - So next port of call would be to a buy a European bike, bring it home and register it here! Excellent idea. Except of course half of Europe also cut the model from Yamaha dealership floors in 2010. Again, few models, poor condition and high prices.

3 - Registration. The UK has an exceptionally easy vehicle registration process. The rest of Europe requires you provide a residence permit and proof of insurance before you can register.

4 - Exporting is even more confusing. The process of getting export plates for the bike in most Euro countries makes the process slow and awkward. The export and import back to the UK will add around £300 to each bike.

5 - Shipping the bike home is another big expense. Hell, even if i just rode the bike home, uninsured, untaxed and undeclared it would still cost me a ferry + 1,000 miles in fuel per bike. Just to get to the start point.

The reality is that if you live in the UK and hope to get your hands on a UK registered WR250R, you are looking at upwards of £5,500 for a decent used model. A Brand new one closer to £7,500, or a rubbish one here for £3,000

It leaves me in a pretty crap position now. I have 2 big adventure bikes here that I have no desire to ride across Asia. And a vastly limited supply of small bikes that are up to the task.

It might just be that the CRF250L and KTM 690 are the only options that exist for us. Research and test riding the CRF has led to believe that the bike is, although perhaps up to the task, would be boring, under-powered and uninspiring.

The KTM, a bike I never really raised in this thread, is bigger, taller, heavier, more expensive and many magnitudes less reliable than i'd ever hope to go on this trip.

What am I do to! I am due to be back on the road within a week, and I have no bike!

Aaaaargh

Just take the gs

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Now you've read the numbers below do you agree? ;)




The only other smaller capacity bike worth considering is the DRZ 400, but you are starting to climb in weight and are not far off the 600 cc bikes, but with a bigger tank and better seat they are pretty good travel bikes that can take a serious beating, but they are probably getting rare too. Either change your trip plans or as tmotten says take the GS's

I think he should buy mine.

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I was just surfing on hubb and found this thread :D
Right now I am doing a small world trip on a klx250. I used to ride 750cc engines, so the acceleration and top speed of the 250 is crap, but in rough Terrain, I just love the klx. Easy riding, Stairs to the Hotel Lobby is no problem at all. Moreover I had a few Situations, where I nearly dropped the bike, but with that Weight I managed to keep it stable.

The cons: Bad Aftermarket, slow travelling Speed (~95km/h), less space in comparison to other motorcylces.

After 6 weeks riding ( 44 weeks still to ride) sometimes I miss the power on Highway, but I love the Agility.

So all this makes me want to keep my WRR forever :) Havin both a WRR and a KTM 690 enduro, I must say they are - of course - completely different beasts. For a long haul trip in Asia I'd choose the WRR any day. And if I could have only one bike, it'd be the WRR too. Much more versatile despite its shortcomings.

One thing worth considering about the klx is that you can easily de-restrict it. That would give it nearly as much power as the wrr, with a top speed of about 130 km/h. Should work on any >2009 efi model.

Anleitung zum Entdrosseln des Drehzahlbegrenzers der Kawasaki KLX250
Derestrict klx250 2009 EFI for FREE - KLX/KLR 125/140/250/300 - ThumperTalk

DRZ 400 is actually harder to acquire than a WRR!

The GS's just aren't an option for us. They have almost zero real-world off road ability.

That's encouraging to hear about the KLX. How are you finding the service intervals on the road?

Aaah rub it in why don't you.

Due purely to lack of options. I have been looking at the KTM690's. It seems there was a few revisions in 2013 making the bike lower. I wonder how they are doing with the horrible reliability record.

How's your 690 holding up? And what year is it?... Just in case it comes to the unthinkable

Is the WR250R worth the hassle over a CRF250L
 

Just go with the CRF250L it is great for traveling outside europe. Also the most reliable bike I know. As soon as you leave the modern world you will have the most powerfull bike around;-). If you are worried about the power difference between the WRR and the CRFL, maybe the 250 league is not for you...

www.amsterdamtoanywhere.nl

What's your route that you feel you need that ability?
I wouldn't consider a drz. I replaced mine for a wet. The drz is a way better trail bike but not fun on the open stuff.

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iO@SuperSonicRocketship:
The Service Intervall is 12000km. So it's quite ok. I will do it Pakistan in 2 weeks. In Pakistan I am not sure if the bike is sold, but in India and asia it is, therefore the service should not be a Problem.

If you take the Honda,wrr or klx is just about riding each bike and decide then. I bought the klx, because you can adjust the Springs and the exhaust is stainless steel. The Honda is a bit more comfortable for me, but I bought a airhawk for the klx. The wrr was too expensive for me. I wanna spend that money on the trip.


Today I had a exercise day, I wanted to ride on a dried salt Lake. It was fun, but I went to far in the middle of the lake. There it wasn't dry and I screwed up.
It was 45°C and nothing to put under the tire. So I just unpacked and laid the bike aside, pulled it and lifted it. With this Weight possible. I sweated like hell :D

Edit: I am not experienced Rider on such a condition. So next time I won't stop for a photo :D

Mossi, how do you find your klx after a while? how is gearing?
I know suspension is better then crf.
I thinking about trading mine crf250l for it :)

You have to change a lot the Gears, because it's only 250. Because of this I have to shift down when it gets mointainous or windy, but I carry a lot of stuff and myself ;)
I don't think its worth a trade. Only if you don't lose any Money:D

Interesting discussion. I've been going through the whole WR-R thing too this year, wanting something lighter for Morocco and maybe Sahara. I change bikes most years. Tried an overpriced WRR test bike from a dealer and loved the response.
Had a CRF-L (in the US) and have a KLX hack (carb) there too.
As the OP concluded - hard to find a decent WRR in the UK for the money, and while there are a few more in Europe and re-reg'ing in UK is easy, the hassle in finding a good used one and expense of riding or vanning one back all add up, unless you're buying new or near new from an EU dealer. Tried with a couple in DE, but they lost interest.
I'm sure I looked, but didn't spot the great Polish price - bargain - like Ozzie. May have tried there had I seen it. Saw as low as < £5000 new in Italy (may have been an X - all the same to me).

I considered a UK KLX (efi) too. New price was below £4k last time I looked and as said, much better suspension than a CRF and prob as economical and as low, but aftermarket tanks are small, not in UK, and I suspect CRF-Ls are more reliable and a bit better made.
Even the OE WRR suspension is not so hot. Depends how you ride but the rear shock is under damped. The re-valve is a well-knkwn tweak (explanatory vid). Other issue was stator on the 08s which is a recall, spare fuel pump not so expensive and I'll watch the chain wear on the swingarm guide.

Anyway, have accumulated a giant IMS tank, got a bash plate and other bits and have an 08 being put together by Hyperpro in NL. Never had so much trouble sourcing a bike (aka: initially too stingy to accept the age/price ratio - same story with DRZs). Let's hope it was worth it.

Either could be a truly perfect dirt-biased overlander.
Bit more poke for a little extra weight, so closer to 690/CCM but with the benefits of Jap design.

Each to his own but for long-haul RTW I wonder if a WRR might be a bit wasted. Seems to be a unique bike - a Jap tralie with European-like performance, but perhaps better suited to shorter duration BAM/jungle/desert type off-roading. Cant go wrong with the best CRFL or KLX you can get in the UK for your money. Subframe I noted was chunkier on my US KLX (summary here). Mine also has clever adjustable dog-bone joints. Never seen those.

Depends what type of terrain you plan to ride off course but I think the WRR will surprise you. I've had mine since 2012 and it still surprises me. It's deff not right for tight desert and I imagine jungle trails. The gear box is way too spaced to be a good trail bike. Long distance gravel and double trails is where this thing shines. Then when things get tighter or you come through a few rock or sand washes the trail metrics come into play and what looked like an obstacle becomes an enjoyable break. Country roads are fun too. Highway sucks but to me they do anyway. The idea of this bike is a trail bike with an adventure bike gearbox and maintenance interval. It allow you to get of the beaten path. So it's better too spend more time planning to link dirt roads up and then when you find cool trail just point it and go.

I'm currently using the long weekend to test a few things so am riding fully laden on stock suspension. I never bottom out but I'll have them resprung for my trip to be sure.
I recommend a steering stabilizer. Always struggled with the price but now I have one I don't want to ride without anymore. Saved my bacon many times.

I would be happy to fly to a country that sells this bike and start a trip from that. This bike needs very little mods. A tank, few USB chargers, a bit of extra lighting, comfort seat, stabilizer, alloy bars and hands guards, bash plate and that would be about it. A day to prep and away you go.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...702_130948.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...6999301190.jpg

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Nice looking WR-R for sale on the ABR forum
http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...ha-wr250r.html

Wrr in France
 

Hello,
There are three nice wrr for sale in France. I have just secured one of them for me.
Tell me if you need help/accomodation to see these bikes. One is in Versailles, easily reachable from Paris for a test ride.
Guillaume

Heeeeeelloooo Folks...

A while since I checked in here.

UPDATE:

So as I previously mentioned, I have given up on the idea of picking up a WRR anywhere in the UK, then subsequently given up on having one carted back from Europe.

So I started my online shopping career for KLX's, CRF's and even, in a moment of desperation 690's... I nearly pulled the trigger on a 2013 690.

Then

Out of nowhere

There it was..

2010 WRR 5,000 miles and 1 owner pops up out of nowhere for sale in London. I am not exaggerating when I say I about verbally ear raped the man when I phoned him to enquire if it was still for sale. It was!

Long story short; 1 van rental later I was heading home with my long sought after WRR in the back. Huzzah!

Better yet. When shopping for a few long haul basics; skid plate, hand-guards, safari tank, fork valves, racks, bar risers etc, I actually found a dirt cheap '08 WRR on eBay with all of these parts already attached. So whilst I had the van I swung past there and picked that up too.

So I've went from having no WRR's... to 2 WRR's in a week, Perfect! The older WRR still runs like a swiss watch, but the plastics are a bit scuffed and it was diiiirty. It actually cost me less than the sum of it's aftermarket parts. I got it for £1,500 including all it's original parts too. Hell the Safari tank alone is £600 in the UK. The main '10 WRR set me back £2,700.

The plan is to strip the old '08 of it's bounty, set up the '10 real nice, swap the '08 back to it's original form and sell it back on again. Ironically the old '08 WRR actually is in great shape once I got it home and cleaned it up. The old caked up mud fell away from the bike with some hot soapy water revealing a great little machine. Part of me thinks I actually could have just took this one in the bloody first place.

I can likely sell it in it's stock form, with new plastics and full service, for a little more than I picked it up for.

Pics soon!

Cool. But on second thought, maybe that Honda would be good too.

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Both the WR250 and the WR450 are available here in South Africa.


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That's the F though. Different bike

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But it was gutless :(

I believe you are looking at the F, which is about as similar to the R as a WRC Rally Car is to a Land Rover.

I also confused F and R for years (below), otherwise may have bought one ages ago. CRF-L-X-R a bit more obvious.

Enjoy your WRRs, SSR. If you look long enough they'll turn up, tho didn't work for me in the UK.
Interested in how you rack it. I'll prob get a motorack in the US later.



https://adventuremotorcyclinghandboo...wrrvswrf21.jpg

you'll be disappointed with 250cc very soon.

No he won't. He'll take it where no 800 can go.

I was only joking about that Honda. Enjoy the mighty wrrrr.

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You don't need a rack. You need a sewing machine. Then just ride it like it's not there.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...7724214141.jpg

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dream on... beer

No dream. Just spent 1000km on the dirt this weekend. Didn't see a single big bore.

Prepping for 25000km on dirt routes in Africa where I don't expect to see many either if past experiences are anything to go by. Most people stick to routes where the bike is most comfortable. That's the world upside down.

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here you go

http://www.4shared.com/img/K1GPVEbfc...0151027_125102

Looks stuck to me. Better turn around. There seems to be more of that ahead.

Might get some knobs too. They come in handy off the road ;)

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Congrats on the 250's. Long time WR250X Adventure rider and love it. After I got my 250 I never went back to the big BMW. The 250 will actually be one of the larger bikes in Asia I would guess. Probably lots of fully loaded 150's will be passing you.


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F i n a l l y got my WR-R set up and ready to go south before it gets too hot.
Lightness really is the key - at least to me at the moment.

More here and more to come.

Ditch those racks mate. Luggage has no place being carried there. beer

Totally with you on that one Chris!
We have the same set up.


Although the only thing we missed this time: it would have been useful to have a little topbox on one of the bikes, to fit tools that we used all the time and the waterproofs, instead of an additional roll bag above the panniers.

We had sooo much rain and storms last summer across Russia and the Stans. So many storms.


And it was a pain in the &*%%& to remove the panniers! We had to get the roll bag off all the time... dealing with too many straps every day.


But Travel light is the way to go to enjoy the trails and added freedom. Anything we may need we can buy on the way.

Sounds like you're better off with the reckless bag from Mosko Moto then. I wouldn't bolt any hard luggage on a light bike. Particularly on a small bike. The whole advantage is that they're lighter so you can ride more aggressive routes. Sandy tracks for example. With those you'd need to place your weight further back which you won't with a hard luggage. It's also a hazard hitting potholes or stuff like that when the rear kicks you up in the arse. The rebound on these isn't great to begin with to keep that from happening.

The added advantage to this arrangement is that you can loose the racks which turn a nimble bike into a tight rope walker. Keeping it tucked in is everything. You can reduce the impact of the effective mass by over half.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...%20Section.jpg

Mine is only a few weeks in a sunny region Maria, so my luggage is simplified.
If I was going on a C.Asia trip like you, I’d probably add something like my much-underused Peli 1400 on a small tail rack. Lockable and rounded but a bit heavy at 2kg in the wrong place. I'd actually like to see a much larger version of my old T'tech tail pack. Say what you like, but a box-like tailpack is dead easy to get to on the road.
I agree easy pannier removal and access are key. The less faffing with grubby straps end of the day when you’re tired, or start of the day when you’re dozy or distracted - the better.
Are those Magadans on the blue bike? I ran them a couple of bikes ago, lashed securely to rack/bike and just pulled out the inners to take indoors. Worked OK.
Up to a point I found the big outside pockets on the Mags mean your usual daily needs can be met without opening the main compartment. That’s why I got the strap-on 6L pockets with the new Kriega panniers. They’re currently empty - so is the tank bag and little tailpack and the main bags aren’t full either - so plenty of short-term expansion room for longer desert stages.

Good lesson from the road!

The pelican case 1400 is heavy for the inner volume you get.
Now Pelican came up with a new design: " pelican air case" series.
They claim they are about 40% lighter. They have a more rectangular shape too.


Patrick

I think the bags Chris shows above are Kriege soft bags? But ... they are mounted on steel racks ... and set outboard quite far. Not great, IMO. And as said, the steel racks ADD WEIGHT. Do you really need them? Why?

I prefer throw-over bags using a cross seat strap to take the load/shock and support the bags. (soft bags of course)
Racks can be trouble if taking full load of panniers. They add weight and attachment points are famous for cracking/breaking after some rough riding. doh

On the WR250R you will need some sort of HEAT SHIELD for the muffler so soft bag can lay on the shield and not burn. Should keep the bags tucked in close, helping to centralize mass with less stress on sub frame.

In terms of fiddley straps ... ?? Inner bags! :D So easy. I never take my panniers off. Just open and grab inner bag and go. Panniers stay on bike.

Top bags are convenient and if lockable, good if passing more urban locations. But some over load them and few are spec'd for much over 10 kg. If you overload you risk cracking/bending sub frame. But perfect for rain gear and maybe just a few key tools?

If suspension is correctly set up, then rebound should keep seat from whacking you in the Butt over Whoops and such riding at speed. WR is pretty good stock, but can be improved even more and will be really GOOD.

If doing mostly PAVED travel then a big top box like a Pelican is OK ... I guess?
Not my cuppa unless doing a daily commute in the City where a big Pelican, GIVI or other is useful. I've seen these big boxes SNAP off riding off road.

:scooter:

If you're doing mostly paved or graded roads then you don't need a WRR. Check out 2.17 of this vid and let me know if the rebound is any good on the WRR. On every bike it's a compromise on safety though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8VomeL0FZo&t=665s

The over seat bags are superior in every way but convenience. I take that very minor inconvenience every day because I tend to focus on the riding. But there are no stressed seams so it's way more robust, no racks are required, quick and easy to install and it's as tucked in as can be. Sadly there are no models available that have it low and are large enough for long distance stuff. So I made my own shown on the first page.

The stock heat guard is pretty good and I haven't needed anything further to avoid fire with my bag. But the bolt does get so hot that the rhinotek fabric gets broken down over time. The bag also gets a little too warm for comfort with that stock heat guard. I've tried increasing the reflective foam on the inside to a higher spec one. Not clear how much improvement that provides. I've also put a longer bolt to the exhaust on it, but I still prefer some more air gap. So I've added some PVC tubing under the bag to keep the fabric from the exhaust guard completely where it's hot and provide an air gap. Luckily I've sewed on heaps of molle webbing on it so tie-ing those one was easy and field repairable which to me is key with all luggage.
Racks have no business on bikes IMHO. The engineers spend most of their effort increasing maneuverability by reducing the width and centre of mass. Then the luggage boys (or owner) come along and turn all that upside down.

I use a tank bag which I cable tied down to a rear rack which I keep stuff I need to get to fast, Tool to adjust the chain, Chain lube, weatherproof clothering, etc.
The tank bag has a built in rain cover which I use all the time stops sticky fingers?
Works for me ok

http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/...pss69fdxkw.jpg

I keep thinking I might try one of these rackless ‘horseshoe’ bags, but volume, convenience and price puts me off. I could do almost as much with a couple of kayak dry bags. Mosko’s Reckless V2 system has lots of smart ideas, though it doesn’t look like the ’80’ refers to anything like capacity in litres. Plus it would cost nearly 600 quid to get a set to the UK. Makes GL look cheap.
I feel these horseshoe bags are great for BDR-ing and dirt-riding camping weekends where bike agility counts. Not so suited to overland travel (in the AMZ) where for most its not about the bike.

Once payloads and volume grow – aka: a travel bike – racks are hard to avoid. Unloaded, my WR probably weighs 150kg wet; the rack is 4kg – or say 90 miles of fuel. I’ll take that penalty over the drawbacks of throwovers.

I’ve had it all over the years: melts, fires and know people who’ve lost enter bikes - and took out a field of corn while they were at it. Plus modern, lean-burning bikes with cats run especially hot.

I was running throwovers on a KLX250 last year. I distributed the weight appropriately to limit bag swing and pipe/side panel pressure. But sure enough, as I dropped down I-17 into baking hot Phoenix I could smell melting plastic.

I agree weight centralisation is important on any bike. I load heavy items low and to the front of a pannier. And heavy fluids etc in the front pockets. It all helps. I’ve seen pix of some truly shocking set-ups - rotopaxes hanging out in another time zone.


PS
I can guess which famous WR vid that is… ;-).

FYI: I have a WR shock with a Hyperpro spring if anyone wants it to do the shim-stack thing.

horseshoe bags
 

Chris,

For trying out those horseshoe bages you might be interested in these:
ROGAL XL

Quite a bit cheaper than what you find elsewhere.
Didn't try them myself, and Polish is just good enough to understand they are 50l and 187Euros...

They have a range of sizes and bags.

Rob

Time to get the sewing machine out Chris. ;-)

I fundamentally disagree that compromising on mass centralizing is acceptable for anything other than highway riding. Particularly when that means having to spend money on it.
If you're already spending it, why not continue and spend it on something you know will improve your situation. Didn't you sport those Magadan's at some point? Those aren't cheap.
There are some obscure brand throwover options out there.

I've not used this particular pannier but have used two other Nelson-Rigg bags with GREAT results. The ones below look very good to me! and only $180 USD !!!

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/...dry-saddlebags

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-.../i-STtCXCn.jpg

Perhaps a very light, minimal rack only to keep bags off pipe and hold from
flopping round on rough terrain.

This set is just a few lbs. ... been on my DR650 for 60,000 miles, NO problems.
Very light weight, do the job. Notice how close they fit to side panel. To me, a big plus for keeping things centralized.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...-HMTrcgW-L.jpg
no fires, no melted panels ... even with LOADED panniers! (Wine!) Cheap and Cheerful racks ... must be something similar for the WR250R?

Big racks with cross brace not required if just trying to prevent a fire.
On mine, the cross seat straps take ALL the load, NONE on the racks.
I use inner bags (the new Nelson-Rigg ones shown above come with inner bags! Nice!) These seem a good size too, should fit well onto the WR and be in scale to size of bike. Maybe worth a look!

I do like those racks as far as racks go. But even those are totally not required (I better not jinx myself). The majority of the mass should be at the pillion footpeg. Leave that on and there's your frame. 90% of the bikes have their exhaust tuck in as this one does in that location. The trick is to keep the plastic from touching which can be achieved through other means.

I have a WR250R, great bike. I have only had one issue in 30,000 km of adv travel. I am currently “stuck” in LaPaz BCS the part I need is on back order minimum 3 week back order or more stateside. :(

I am a little surprised any part for a modern bike would be unavailable. I am thankful I am reasonably close to Canada.

Doing it again I may of chosen the Honda just for parts global parts availability.

My experience in south-America is that they have only wear parts and hardly that too. And that is for models they sell in south-America. Most other parts other than wear parts they order from Europe of north-America. And you are stuck for 3-4 weeks anyhow. That is if the parts actually arrives at all...
So it wouldnt matter much to bring in a bike they dont sell there versus a bike that is sold here.

Since American Yamaha is located right there in SoCal (Cypress, CA or is it Brea?? )
They have a major warehouse there. In theory should not take much time to source the part(s) you need. I would deal direct with American Yamaha customer service there in SoCal, who knows, maybe they can actually help a customer in need? :innocent:

You could ride (or bus or fly) back up to SoCal from La Paz in a couple days, get your part, then go back to your bike, fix it and go. Better than waiting weeks for part to arrive via Mexican Yamaha dealer.

Anyway, whatever happens, good luck, hope thing work out.

bier

Sorry to hear that, interested to know what part has left you stranded? FI Pump maybe.....

Just got one of these, going to try and fit. First impressions - quality is good - although I think the GL roll-top is better than a zip.
Also the saddle mount strap is fixed length with a fixed hook so there'll be some faffing with this.

I got all the extras - if I ordered again I'd just go for the plain Rogol XL - use my own dry bags.


Update: All the above is true, the 'fitted' dry bags option is definately daft avoid.
Fitment - the bottom of the bags has a webbing buckle and some clip which is completely useless on the stock WRR so you will need to modify. My bro just used rockstraps over the whole gear instead of the two main straps and bottom strap - worked out well. The lower end of the WRR exhaust gets hot even on the heat shield, I added a second stock heatshield ontop of the first with a 10mm spacer. Worked nicely. Other options exist.

Overall - good for the price. The achillies heel is the zip. Really a pain to fight closed and if you muscle it too much you'll snap it. Get the Giant Loop Coyote roll top. Thats what ill do once i break these enough!