Will 250cc do for Africa?
 

Hello together,
reading around in this forum has been really helpful so far and really enjoyable!
For mid 2011 I plan to start my first ever long distance motorcycle trip. It will cover most of West- and Central Africa. Can’t wait for that to happen and really hope, I get everything together by then as planned, including the $$. My question here is: how much would you value the (light-) weight of a bike for touring on expectedly poor quality dirt roads?
What I've got now is a Suzuki DR-Z 250 which runs just great and I love that bike and can do most of it's maintenance and minor repairs myself. I also know how to handle it on and off-road, with or without luggage. This one only weighs just over 100kg (plain bike weight). In Australian conditions (and with good quality fuel available) I never felt it lacks any power and the local speed limit of 110km/h can be achieved without trouble or vibration or too much noise. Mid 2011 it'll have around 20000km on the clock. I really love my little 250 but am unsure if she's tough enough for a long tour.
As an alternative bike I’d have in mind a Suzuki DR650SE, which you get for around AU$8000 brand new. Plain bike weight of the DR650 is 166kg. I know I would love that bike too.
On the plus side the DR650 would offer more power and since it's new, potentially less repairs. While at the same time maintenance and repairs are very similar to it's little sister, the DR-Z250, so I'd still be confident enough to do most of it myself too. On the minus side there are two big points: an extra AU$8000 on the budget plus an extra 60kg bike weight to carry around.
Many people are obviously happy with the DR650 and it's a proven bike for Africa tours. But, for comparison reasons, is there anybody out there with experience with a 250cc bike for touring? Will the engine most likely survive some 30000km in heat and seriously bad road conditions (after starting with already 20000km on the clock) without a need of rebuilding it? Would you see the need for more power than a 250cc can provide?
Cheers,
Marco

Hi Marco,

as for mileages well my trusty Yamaha XT250 gave over 75,000 miles of trouble free riding in a little over four years.

During that time she was used to commute daily, ran throughout the winter months, trail ridden all over the place and used as a touring machine when heavily laden with kit.

OK she didn't get the rough treatment that you may have in Africa but she's been a perfect bike for me and only a Hit n Run accident with a van stopped mer covering way more miles (she was written off).

Still on original clutch, cam chain, etc. Only service items were replaced, apart from items damaged in accidents.

Light weight has a lot going for it!

Reagdrs

Reggie

Perhaps you should consider a DRZ400S, it's about halfway between your 250 & the DR650 in terms of power & weight. Very reliable, plenty of aftermarket support, easy to service etc.

I've only done the north-west corner of Africa--Morocco, Western Sahara, Mauritania and Senegal--but what's clear is that speeds of 70-90kph are the norm, so you certainly don't need the additional power.

Can't see a problem with the heat--the bike would be big compared to what most of the locals ride.

Part of the problem with smaller capacity bikes is that the manufacturers tend to downsize all the other components as well - cheaper suspension, flimsier frame, weak electrics etc. It's these things that cause problems if you're dependent on the bike for months at a time. I'd have no problem using a 250cc bike if all the other bits were robust enough but that combination is rare in something that's road legal. They do exist though (and at this point hopefully others will chip in with a list! :scooter::scooter: )

Time and time again you'll see people posting that for their next trip they're going to take less stuff on a lighter bike but there's a practical minimum (beyond yourself + toothbrush) of stuff you need if you're going to be on the road for a while or going somewhere off the beaten track. You'll have an easier time mentally if you're not worried that the subframe is going to snap with the weight or the suspension pitch you off. Generally that feeling that the bike is operating well within its limits tends to be something that increases in line with capacity.

Hi Bikingmarco,

I went to Panama and back from the U.S. this spring on a 250 Kawasaki Super Sherpa. 20,000 kilometers of trouble free riding. The bike now has over 33,000 kilometers with just routine maintenance. It will cruise at 110 kph all day long, but in the third world, you are normally tootling along on back roads or rutted jeep trails at a slower pace. And a skinny little thumper is perfect for that. I used to travel on bigger bikes, (loaded down BMWs). I am a minimalist now. And really think the 250's are the perfect size for third world travel, IF you can discipline yourself to travel light. It sounds like you can.

One advantage of taking your DRZ250 over a newer DR650 is that it gets far better fuel economy. You will save a lot of money over the course of a 30,000 kilometer adventure. It is also easier on tires which are quite expensive in some countries. And new sprockets and chain should last your entire trip on a little 250. It is also lightweight and easier to maneuver in sand and rough conditions over a heavier bike. As well as easier to pick up if you dump it. Another advantage that may not come to mind immediately is that it is easier to throw in a truck or boat if needed. And you will be 8000 AUD richer if you ride what you have. Any bike you take is going to take a beating on a 30,000 kilometer trek through Africa. The little DRZ is a tough little booger with a bullet proof motor and can take a beating. Rather than thrashing a brand new 8000.00 bike, I would take your trusty little DRZ that you know how to work on. Put on some new tires, new sprockets and chain and ride the wheels off that bike. Spend your money on travel.

You'll have a fun adventure no matter what bike you take.

Best luck,
John Downs

Thanks for your replies, guys, much appreciated. I was pretty much concerned about needing to rebuild the engine half way through the trip as being the limiting factor. Reason being that there are quite a lot of similar 250cc bikes of all major manufacturers on ebay with around 30000km on them and an already rebuilt engine. They'd probably been ridden hard offroad most of their time. But it's quite encouraging to see Reggies XT250 lasting for so long.

It's a really good point from backofbeyond though that it's the rest of the bike that requires just as much consideration. I'll definitely have a closer look into the reliability of these parts.
As for the DR-Z400 - I did have a go on that one too, one of my workmates has on of these nice bikes. The thing is though that for whatever reason they are actually more expensive to buy then a DR650 and are only around 20kg lighter. It's probably because the DR650 hasn't changed in the last decade or so whereas the DR-Z400 has had some facelifts.

I've got still more than a year to go before departure day so it's plenty of time for more research. But if I decide to get a new bike I'd like to have it some 6 month before the tour to properly prepare it, test it on weekends and get used to it's behavior. But, to be honest, right now I'm tending towards taking my little 250cc. For the three reasons light weight, knowing the bike inside out and saving money. As I know myself I probably change my mind every second week on this :confused1: that's why your experience in touring and advice is heaps appreciated.

Cheers from Sydney,

Marco.

20kg is a reasonable amount when you're stuck somewhere & need to drag the bike out of a ditch etc.

There have been very few facelifts to the DRZ, there's the 400E with longer suspension, basic instruments & a flatslide carb - more offroad orientated. There's also the SM version in addition to the 400S.

One benefit of the DRZ is that valves are scheduled to be checked only every 15,000 miles with oil changes every 3,000 miles. One reason why they might be more expensive is that they're more popular...... Don't get me wrong, I put just under 50,000 miles on the earlier DR600 in the '90's & loved it but the DRZ is a superior bike on trails in the hands of an average rider.

Not sure what DRZ's sell for where you are but we recently paid £1,950 for a very clean & tidy 04 bike with some nice extras that had only covered 2,700 miles.

I won't bring up my WR250R that I'm taking to Russia next year. Not because it isn't a fantastic bike (I got rid of my XT660R because it didn't do anything better and a lot of things worse) but because they're expensive and hard to find in the UK.

Yes I agree, go small. I have a TTR 250 and an XT 660 and much as I love the 660, the 250 wins out every time for the long trips. I'm based in South Africa and recently did a rough 8000km trip on this very second hand bike and it never let me down, worn bearings and cracked clutch cover gasket notwithstanding.

Xt 250
 

My wife is riding her xt 250 thru Africa this year, she was originally riding her F650gs but opted for her sml bike mainly her concerns were road conditions and sand. She is quite light and luggage on her bike is quite minimal, we will let you know how she goes. I am riding an F650 twin which after every thing I am beginning to hear is a bit of a concern. I'm starting to think I should have done it on the 250 as well !!!!!!!

Cheers
Paul:scooter:

Thanks for all your replies again, guys! Very interesting. As probably most people here I spent quite a few nights reading travel blogs all over the web. And there are so many people who consider the overall weight of their bike and luggage as to high. I'd say that saving 20-50kg by choosing a lighter bike is easier than saving 20-50kg on luggage.
There are blogs of travelling on all sorts of bikes between 650cc and 1200cc as well as on scooters or 110cc Postie bikes. There is almost no one on a 250cc though, that's why I'm asking. And now I am very happy to see some of you guys travelling or planning to travel on 250s.
I will, however, have a closer look into the DR-Z400 again. Backofbeyond raised my awareness towards other parts of the bikes in an earlier reply and the DR-Z 400 seems to be a bit tougher in her suspension than her little sister. In other forums people have had some trouble with the DR-Z250 suspension and replaced it by a DR-Z400 one. Also there are heaps more things available to upgrade the DR-Z400, the DR-Z250 doesn't seem to be a very common bike. I will also have a look if it makes sense to potentially replace some of the original factory parts on my bike by better quality aftermarket ones as available (such as the front suspension).
The reason for focussing so much on Suzukis is just the fact that I'm heaps happy with mine and that I know my way around their Enduro bikes.

Thanks again,

Marco

If you're happy with it in Aust. mate, you'll be happy with it in Africa.
Much better to have something you know well

I´m not going to take a stand on the eternal does-size-matter issue....but I´ll say that part of the decision might hinge on how you define a major trip. Mine is currently at 50,000 km and I am still a long ways from home. There is a big difference between this distance and 8000 km.

I will also say that when I run into riders on light bikes--250, 400--they generally complain a lot. The last one I hung with for any period was last heard from trying to figure out why she kept busting spokes despite being lightly loaded and half my size. But when I read posts from them on the web, they are almost universally enthused. I don´t know what to make of this, but I´m sure it means something. Perhaps.

Mark

(approaching Belem and the Amazon River crossing)

In my humble opinion a 250 would do the job at a push (if you picked the right one) BUT you will be much wiser to pick a dependable/simple trail bike around 600cc size. Stick to a simple bulletproof model. For Africa stick to a single cylinder if possible, anything complicated will be nigh on impossible to repair in African roadside workshops. Spare parts will also need to be considered.

I'm biased a bit but the number 1 SUPREME adventure bike in Africa is the Yamaha XT600 (any version is fine). A more modern XT660 is probably almost as good. You can still find immaculate low milage examples (XT600E) in the UK for around £1,500 - £1,800 mark. Remember that the XT series of bikes have won more Paris/Dakar rallies than almost any other bike (including BMW's).

If money's not a problem perhaps consider a current model BMW or KTM. These are rather highly strung machines compared to an XT. African roadside mechanics may struggle fixing them whereas they will know the XT very well. Older Boxer BMW's which are simple and robust are hard to find in good nick these days...

If 600cc is too large for you why not look at a venerable Suzuki DRZ400? A lovely little offroad machine capable of so much.

Remember that you will need to haul round a lot of heavy kit and a 250cc may run out of puff and wheeze or start protesting (reliability problems)...

Forget HUGE 1200cc bikes for African adventures - they will do the job but will be heavy cumbersome and not much fun.

I'll chip in with a comment that does not relate to any specific bike but to the notion that modern, technically advanced motorcyles present a repair problem when travelling in Africa or Asia.

All of the third and semi third world countries I've visited are well populated with late model Toyotas, Mercedes, Peugeots etc, all stuffed with chips, sensors and other electronic wonders. These vehicles are far more complex overall than the average motorcycle and somehow they get maintained and repaired. I remember a motorcycle and scooter repair shop in Vietnam with glass booths enclosing white coated mechanics fiddling with computer monitors.

You surely won't find one of those shops in the middle of the Sahara but you won't find one in the middle of the Mojave or on the Dempster Highway either. That's what telephones, tow trucks, patience and, unfortunately, money and UPS are for. The idea that you can't get complicated stuff fixed in faraway places is, perhaps, a tad overblown. Many people seem to invest a great deal of effort (and often quite a lot of money) rebuilding older, simpler bikes in the interests of simplicity and reparability but you have to wonder if a modern, much more complex but very reliable bike (and many are amazingly reliable, especially the Japanese brands) wouldn't make more sense. It would seem to be about balancing probabilities.

normw

250'll do ya fine mate. :cool4:

I rode an RD350 Yamaha (2 stroke twin road bike same size as the RD250) throug Africa back in '78. No problems with subframes breaking even with carying a 50 litre plastic fuel tank and 10 litre water tank on the back of the bike along with all the rest of my gear.

That was in the old days when just about all of the Sahara was sand tracks and what a lot of fun it was fishtailing in deep sand for over 3,00kms. :clap:

The year prior to that I had ridden it two up from Singapore to the UK.

I still have the RD in the garage (stiil goes) after I shipped it back home from Mombasa but I did seize the mongrel of a thing in the main street of Nairobi - crossed too many rivers and sucked a truckload of water in to the crankcase which resulted in intake ports in the piston skirts disintegrating 1,000kms later - rebuilt it my hotel room, easy peasy - but that's another story. :biggrin3:

Thanks for your opinion again, guys, much appreciated! It seems, what is being singled out as the potential weak spots of taking a 250 to Africa is the trustworthiness not so much of the engine but more of the other components with markhaf mentioning the spokes again. Also my DR-Z250 handbook has a warning in it saying that the bike is not designed to carry luggage. As reason for that they state the effect of luggage on the handling of the bike. I never carried more than 15kg on it so far but couldn't feel much of a difference in the bike's behaviour, even on trails. But it certainly puts another testride with more luggage on the plan. Probably the weight of luggage has a greater effect on a light weight bike because it plays a bigger part in the overall weight. We'll see.

So if we would conclude that the engine of my 250 is strong enough and reliable enough to do the job (seems like other 250cc travellers have had no major problems with that) the next step would be to identify potential weak spots (e.g. suspension, wheels), swap these for tougher parts and we'd have a proper touring bike? I'll also have a closer look at my workmates DR-Z400 and it's frame to compare tube diameters and geometry and see, if Suzuki downsized the frame for the DR-Z250.

The other thing coming up about bikes with high tech components - personally I'd rather not take any of those. But that's a personal choice. It's true that nowadays you probably get replacement parts sent into every corner of the planet. But I guess that will surely cost. And if something needs to be worked on, it's more likely that on a simple bike I could either do it myself or get it done by non hightech-savvy local shops. The three bikes I'm trying to decide between (DR-650, DR-Z250 or DR-Z400) would all be rather simple single cylinders anyway.

There are literally hundreds of reviews for the DR650 on the web, most of them pretty positive. Similar for th DR-Z400. But almost no review of the DR-Z250, the bike I've already got. Drives me kind of mad. But maybe it also means something...

Thanks again to all of you,

Marco

Probably because you're on the mainroads where they're not well suited. They probably say the bigger bikes complain more offroad and hold them up :thumbup1:

What people are not mentioning about this largerCC vs 250 etc thread is that for most of these long trips you are going to spend a massive amount of time on highways (even if they're poorly surfaced) and not on proper offroad. From UK to CapeTown on the busiest routes it is now over 95% tarmac (in terms of distance).

The people enthusing on forums may be people like me who have done the trips on bigger bikes and have selected a smaller bike in the knowledge of where the small one will excel and where it will be a pain in the arse. I still reserve the right to complain and if you're lucky I may even wait for you and help you pick your bike up in the more challenging sections :thumbup1:. This is not about right or wrong bike; its about focusing on the parts that are important to YOU.

I agree completely. In fact, this thread has encouraged me to think about how much time I spend complaining about my own bike, a 650. I agree also about the relative proportions of on vs. off road; I'm on tarmac 85 to 90% of the time in S.A., and most people seem to push this into the upper 90's. But the viability of my trip hinges around my ability to at least manage the soft-surface parts, therefore a dual sport rather than road bike.

I haven't needed any help lifting my bike. Usually the adrenaline coursing through my veins ("Omigod I hope nobody's watching!!!") enables me to lift it myself without further humilation!

Mark

(from Belem, at the mouth of the Amazon)

My 2 cent worth

I rode a DR200 from Cape Town to London up the east coast last year. (24000km) No problem mechanically. If I did it again I would go for some thing a litte bigger, as most road are (95%)tarmac.

A big + for smaller bike are they are easier to throw in a truck or boat and squeeze in to the hotel lobby.


Soft panniers I would go for the dr250

Hard pannier drz400 /650

i hope this help, and have fun

This is the reality of the fallacy that magazines and 'explorers' are sometimes a little dishonest about. These long distance trips are mostly about road. It is in their interest to keep these places exciting and inaccessible in order to sell articles. Flame me by all means but I'm just saying the routes people take, from what I've seen, are by and large the same whether they're on big bikes or small ones. On my next trip I'm hoping to change that.

ALSO - if you take a small bike you probably don't have to worry about the hardpannier, softbags arguments ! That alone is a good reason :)

Wow, I must say I am very positively surprised by this thread. Thanks again for your comments and sharing your experience with me newbie! :thumbup1:
Also thanks to Mick for the link to the Trans-Africa page on the TTR250, sounds like a great trip and certainly will keep me busy for a while.
Totally agree that on many trips most of the km will be done on decent quality roads, most likely on my planned tour too. Without going into too much detail on my plans here - the tour will basically go from Capetown to Tangier (Morocco) via central and west Africa. The company I'm currently working for in Sydney is well involved in development aid projects and has offices all over these countries. My plan is to stay 8 months in Africa using these offices as way points to relax, get stuff sent too, connect to locals and keep in touch with the world outside or even earn some travel money if needed. The fact that I will most likely travel by myself in between these offices (my friend is still deciding but it doesn't look good) puts the reliability of my bike high up on the priority list. Also the route will lead me through areas in the Democratic Republic of Congo, the other Congo and Cameroon - countries which are famous for awful roads. Therefore a lightweight bike is just as much on top of the priority list because it will need to go through muddy tracks, corrugation, creek crossings etc. and will very likely be dropped a few times. Whereas I wasn't so much concerned about the lack of power of a 250cc the reliability issue was something I was totally unable to assess.
All your comments are really helpful here. The option to put a bit of preparation work into my beloved DR-Z250 and use her for touring seems more and more a viable option now. Packing light has always been on my cards anyway, I learned that from some overland bicycle tours. Soft panniers therefore seem the way to go with my 250.
At the end of this year (when summer is back) I'll do a few multiple day camping trips with a few friends in Australia, going on quite a few unpaved tracks in National Parks. That'll be a good test if it all works out I guess.

Cheers again,

Marco

Regardless of the bike you decide on, have a good trip & let us know how it goes. :mchappy:

Hi Marco
3 reasons to go on a 250:
1. It'll do the job adequately and probably more adequately than what a lot of people (including me) use(d) for Trans Africa

2. Some of your biggest expenses will be fuel and freight. A 250 is likely to have a higher mpg than most and if you have to ship it somewhere it'll cost much less because it's lighter and has less volume when put in a box

3. Most importantly for you: You already have one, know how to work on it and you trust it. Lots of people discard the bike they have and buy something else for their trip. I did and it was a mistake. Go with the bike you've got.

Let us know how your trip goes.
cheers
Chris

Yep Chris, these are the reasons why I would love to stick with my 250 for the trip. The replies here made me lots more confident that a 250 is actually not a bad choice and I hope I can toughen her up to last the distance.
It's still early days, for various reasons departure date is mid 2011. I'll keep you guys up to date with the preparations and, of course, there will be lots more questions where your experience on your tours will be most helpful :thumbup1:.

Cheers from Sydney again,

Marco.

Travel Africa on a 250cc
 

Yes you can do it on a 250cc many have and are doing it now. I am also one of the few that had a GS1150 and sold it because it is to heavy, don't get me wrong the GS is a great bike if you are using a freeway and have a ton of luggage, but on the dirt roads and sand and rain, you will be crying sooner or later when you get stuck and 2 of you cannot lift her, if you like to suffer no problem. I used to have a KL175 and a PE250 when I lived there and both these bikes performed well riding in all sorts of terrain, the PE250 had more oomph,2 stroke! After my GS I bought a VTX1300 cruiser, once again only for good roads, I have also sold that. Now I have a Little Honda 150cc bros Brazilian made, that I keep and use in Mexico when i am there and have also just bought a Yamaha XT 250 back here in Canada! What a great little bike i just love it , I only have soft luggage for it and do not overload. Remember it's not the size of the bike on the road it's the type of person that is riding it!

Its not the ride, its the rider. Get the maintenance up to date before you leave and she'll probably run just fine. The bike you have now that you know and love is almost always better than the unknown. Worst case, have the motor rebuilt and everything else checked out before you leave.

I'd also give another half nod to the WR250R (can't wait to hear about your siberia trip Ed!), pricey because there aren't many around used but they are basically bulletproof, excellent gearing, better than average suspension, tons of electrical reserve for gadgets and heated bits, strong subframe, and more than enough motor for any sort of road, trail, or goat path you want to take it on. And IMS is working on a proper long range tank (4.5gal) now too...

More than a little jealous, wishing I could afford to leave North America to travel...

I've decided on the WR because it really has a split-personality that makes it so versatile. I need the ability to cruise respectably on the highway but hold it's own when I get into eastern russia. It needs to be reliable for tens of thousands of miles without a rebuild and be maintained with no more than a litre or two of 10w-40 and the couple of filters I'll carry in my bag. After all is said and done it needs to be as light as possible but still able to do all the other stuff a RTW trip demands.

Skierd - Buddy, there will be a full writeup, as this bike demands, once the planning and prep starts ramping up in the coming months:thumbup1:

250,s
 

My girlfriend and I are on 2 xt 250's. So far we have done 30000km trouble free around SA. We intend on travelling from UK to Japan this summer. We cruise at 90 km all day long, sometimes as fast as 100km ahahaha. We even drove the bikes up a Volcano to 6000m.

Anyways we enjoy the freedom of a little bikes for bush camping and things but they are not for everyone.

Journey around the world - Home

Cheers Dano

Very impressive trip, Dano! :thumbup1:
Getting more and more convinced that a 250 is a good choice for light weight touring. I'm really seeing my bike with new eyes now.
Also sent an inquiry to the 'Safaritanks' guys here in Oz if there's an option for a bigger tank. They do one for the DR-Z400 but there's nothing about the DR-Z250 on their website. My current tank takes me 200km max, definitely not enough for Africa.

Why not? There will be lots of stretches where there is fuel every 200km.

If you're worried about fuel range tie a 4litre plastic jerry can on the back, or even easier/cheaper use plastic coca cola style bottles as needed. They are indestructable, don't get affected by petrol and fuel station nozzles fit in the hole. To make them easier to tie on the bike, put 2 in a plastic bag and then tie them down.

HTH
Chris

From a european perspective some people reading that will be terrified by the thought of fuel in coke bottles and plastic bags but they'll just have to take your word for it (and take on board that it's not to be attempted in countries where it would be illegal to trasport fuel in an unapproved container). I find the biggest problem with coke bottles for fuel is that if they're hit they can develop pin sized holes - I just tipped a 1.5ltr one over in my garage to notice a fine jet, almost invisible, coming out of it.

Buya Ikhaya
My wife and I did London - Cape Town in 2007/08 (Feels like yestrerday) on 2 XR250's. Light, easy to handle, more than adequate speed as most places you can only go 70-90km/h anyway. Just gets bit scary in southern Afrcia where traffic starts moving much faster than you.

Many previous responses on various threads specific to this topic.

I don't know if they are here on HUBB, I met an ozzie couple in Dakhla who were traveling on two beaten up Kawasaki 250's all the way from South Africa... They looked the business, the kind of bike you can leave parked and no one would steal it.
One more thing to consider is that Yamaha and Kawasaki are much more popular in Africa than Suzuki, so you would probably find parts easier for those. Still, if you already have the bike, your decision is very simple.

Xt 250
 

My wife is riding her XT250 from Cairo to Cape Town, then onto Sth. America.
Bomb proof and never missed a bit, currently in Kenya.http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...1&d=1296276097

I would think the DRZ 250 would be the ideal bike. That engine is used in several other models with excellent reliability.
If you know and have the bike already it's a no-brainer, use it.
Travel as light as possible, keep up the maintenance and avoid excessive flogging.

I'm considering getting an OZ agricultural version of the DR200 to tour Australia. There's much to be said for the economy those bikes offer.

I own 6 bikes from an R1100GS to a c90 engined special,including a KLR250. The KLR cruises happily at 60mph and I have often thought it is a perfect speed to take in the scenery and still be safe. Go for it!

I've just ridden my DRZ400S from the UK to South Africa.

I rode the east coast....

I've found my 400 slow and uncomfortable, especially on some of the LONG highways. I struggled to hit 60mph (even with longer gearing) and my MPG is actually worse than a FI 650 bmw etc etc.

I can do about 150 miles a day before I start cursing the bike and dreaming of a little more power and comfort. I have a Corbin seat, sheepskin, highbars etc.

I used the DRZ400 as I was convinced I needed an offroad capable enduro bike but it just wasnt the case. Once I loaded it up with luggage it handled just as bad (or even worse due to the balance) as the 600cc class bikes Iv travelled on. The only time in really came into its own was when I had a van carry my luggage down the bandit highway in Kenya (300+ mile of terrible offroad) which then made it a great bike !!

Its personal preference of course and a small bike CAN and WILL manage but its all a case of how much agony you want to put yourself through and what will the benefits actually be ??

I recommend you REALLY research the roads you going to be riding. Don't punish yourself on a small dirt bike if you're riding 90% tar.

If you chose a smaller bike, you need less luggage than you would fit in a rucksack to make it even worthwhile the downgrade in CC.

Just my opinion of course !!! Ted

My wife and I have been traveling relatively long distances on 250 cc bikes for a few years now, so I will leap in here with my 3 cents worth (in these inflationary times).

We are cubic centimeter challenged and travel on a pair of Kawasaki Super Sherpas with the mighty 249 cc engine. Our last trip was a year on the road from western Canada to South America, 43,000 km. We like small bikes and are quite happy with the choice. I do not wish to rehash the small vs big all over again. Suffice it to say that price, fuel consumption, spare parts, simplicity, ease of repair, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, etc. outweigh the drawbacks.

I do not like riding 2up, so when we got into this madness, we went for a pair of small bikes. I have 2 observations, however, which I think are important considerations when setting up the bike. Well, OK, 3 observations.

#1. Minimalism. It has been said many times, but is even more true with a small bike.

#2. You cannot just buy 3 big boxes and hang them off the back and expect and hit the road. During bike setup, get as much weight up front and low as possible. I have a tool tube on the frame in front of the engine with heavy items in it (mostly tools and parts--the weight is forward and low). Using tank panniers slung over the gas tank gets more weight forward and lower around the level of the engine. Limit the size of the boxes on the back. We have a pair of 21 liter Givi bags on the sides and a 45 liter topbox which carries bulky lightweight gear. I built my own rack and have the boxes as far forward as I can get them, keeping the weight above and forward of the rear axle. There is no room for a pillion, barely enough for me.

#3 Gearing. I am pushing the upper limit of weight capacity (according to Kawasaki), so gearing becomes quite important. The stock gearing, we found out, did not really work for the long haul. Our clutches were done for by the time we got to Ecuador. Too much clutch slippage while crawling over the Andes and crawling through city traffic. The clutch gets cooked. After fitting new clutches we also fitted smaller front sprockets for lower gearing. Big difference. That lower first gear eliminated most of the need for clutch slippage whilst performing feats of motorcycle daring-do. You really do not lose anything on the top end since highway speeds in most of the world are low anyway. You are on a 250, after all, and are not going to win any races, so sit back and enjoy the ride.

Speaking of enjoying the ride, I cannot tell a lie. After a full day on the little bugger, you will feel as if you have been flailed and beaten and wonder what it is you have done to deserve such treatment. I like to think that the beating makes a real man of me. Problem is, however, I think it is making a real man of my wife as well.

Off to Turkey and Asia soon. As we speak, the little darling Super Sherpas are in the garage being prepped for the next journey.

Which bike for Africa?
 

It's been a while and I am surprised this thread is still going. So I thought, as the original poster, I let you guys know what happened. But first: thanks heaps for all your responses! It is immensely helpful to get insight into different points of view!
However, the question of either taking the DR-Z250 or an DR650 to Africa for me has been decided in favour of the DR650. It's the result of a lot of thinking and considering and reading the thoughts of you guys on the forum. After almost 6000km on the DR650 and from taking her on similar trips as I did earlier on my DR-Z250 I can also say it was the right choice for me and the particular sort of trip I'm planning. My reasoning behind it was the following:

Top 3 reasons for the DR:
- it is a model proven in similar trips (peace of mind)
- offers a lot of power for still being relatively light weight
- runs on any sort of petrol

Top 3 reasons against the DR-Z 250:
- it's a very uncommon bike (almost impossible to find touring gear for it) and largely unproven to be capable of a long trip with luggage (e.g. engine wear, subframe strength, wheel strength...)
- my DR-Z250 would have had 20000+ km on the clock before starting the actual tour which is a lot for the little engine and it might need a lot more parts replaced during the tour than the DR650
- it needs (according to manufacturer) at least 95octane fuel which can be hard to find in places like Africa

I also had a look at other bikes / brands / models but to lay out my reasons for or against them would just be outside the scope of this thread. Deciding for a bike is heaps more exciting than I thought it would be. Finding bikes, sitting on them, having a close look at them and comparing them all is has been great :D

It sounds like your making the right choice Marco.
While any bike WILL do( :scooter:) the choice of a small bike for the sake of being small can turn your ride into an endurance test.
I rode a xt225 around OZ for a year, even using it for work outback.

Although it was a great little bike, it was always a little bike. I wish I'd of got a bigger thumper (dr650 would have been ideal) in the first place. The only time it was better than a 600cc single was in very tight single track. EVERYWHERE else it was lacking.
With the extra maintainance costs I actually spent more than if I'd have brought a similar age and condition dr650 too.

6 months into my stay a friend came for a trip from darwin to sydney. I brought a battered 1600cc toyota pick-up for $1000 and put the bike in the back. If I was on a bigger bike I would have had the option of travelling 2-up on that.

Small is good to a point, powerful is good to a point. DR650 right choice.

Have a good trip...

Yep my thoughts entirely (see page 1). A larger 600cc bike is the way forward in my humble opinion. Then again I am biased in terms of XT's:thumbup1:

FACT - Africa = Yamaha XT (any version, they are all superb Africa steeds).

BUT a 250cc trail bike will certainly do the job. :scooter:

Stay SAFE! :D

Lois did it on a 350? forget now.
I would say look at the bikes load them up go round the block a few times to see how they feel, then if you want to be really keen put it on its side try & lift it, then decide

I would stick with your 250, you stated that you know the bike well.

I think the comments that smaller bikes are less well built is utter bull.

My Yamaha 1994 TT250R has much better quality components than MY 2008 Yamaha XT660z tenere.

Smaller Bikes stand out less. There is more chance of finding spares look at what bikes are available localy.

I have ridden across spain on my Trusty 250 not once did I wish to be on the 600 I rode the year before and they were Long long road miles.

Bigger bikes are normally worse on fuel and all that weight (and lets look here you are talking around 100 kgs more) Small bikes can carry a good load no worries.

I have read of far more journeys being ruined by the big bike being a pain and very few were people state that there smaller, lighter bike was a pain.

I would not hesitate to take the smaller bike every time. Long trips are not just about trying to crack the ton in sand.

I think the ideal world travel bike is a small light bike of around 250 cc air cooled. maybe an additional oil cooler. 400cc bikes can cut it too but if you already have the 250 use it. Overall what speed are we talking my TTR can keep up with most 600's on road and in the dirt it smokes them :scooter:

Hi Selous,

Lois used an TTR250 for her African trip.

I was speaking to her husband Austin 2 weeks ago and he mentioned that one of the large bike mag's had just rang him and asked for his comments as to which current bike does he consider to be the best RTW machine and he told them the XT250 Serow.

Regards

Reggie

My bike of choice is the DR 350, and im heading to Africa now (currently in India) . However, I wouldnt have minded my DRZ 250 i sold just before leaving...

I like smaller bikes because I am
a. a short girl
b. carrying less than 20kg of soft luggage
c. love to get out on the off road when possible
d. It is a simple engine with simple parts and I know air cool engines pretty well now
e. you can get parts for the smaller bikes in most places!! As a lot of countries have these bikes for racing etc.

This is a great posting - it probably should have been a poll!

It sure would be an intersesting Poll, I think a lot of people have an infactuation with bigger is better and i think when it comes to off road travel thats just not the case.

I was looking at Brasil, both Yamaha and Honda offer interesting small capacity bikes. you have the Yamaha XT 250 Tenere and Honda have a 300 cc adventure bike.

Having toured thailand on a 250 mini dominator I think it was an ax 250 it was brill. You could do technical slow stuff and then ride it fast on gravel fire roads with the back end drift slidding around the bends.

I have been seeking the ideal all rounder for years now and I think the bike manaufacturers are doing us an injustice, bring some of these bikes in and people will buy them, look at the TTr that was grey import for years.

If Kawasaki took the engine from the Ninja 250 they could make a great little adventure bike. likewise honda have the new 250 single from the cbr.

These bikes could offer all the features of bigger bikes but without the penalties of weight, cost and fuel consumption.

Decent size fuel tanks and mini fairings offer all day poetential.

each to their own on engine size, but having expirienced both ends of the scale I will go small and have a ball :scooter:

Light is right
 

The lighter the better.I weigh more than 110kg with simple amount of luggage I have never used needed more than 250cc around Asia and plan to use xt or crf250 in Africa too. I grew up in South Africa and have been riding since age 10.....
Helped more riders with big bikes up and out of mud over years than I care to remember
Go light go right. no shyte!

Capable vs Suitable
 

I've done my share of travelling on unsuitable transportation (as well as suitable). I've done Cape Town to Nairobi on a classic 200cc Vespa PX scooter with 10" wheels - easy.

I've also done the 9000km Budapest to Bamako Enduro Rally with two scooter buddies, ending in Guinea Bissau - on the very same scooter - unassisted, carrying all tools, parts, gear and half a change of clothing... a lot of pistes under construction, off-road... Not so easy, but still enjoyable and lots of fun.

Would I do it again? Yes!

Would I do another? No! I would take the most suitable bike I could afford. I would advice others to do the same... unless they have some perversion they just have to get out of their system.

I think that a 250cc like a Yamaha WR, or the like, with some mods, can make an ideal bike for any part of Africa or traversing it... if you plan to take the occasional scenic route or do a lot of offroading. If you plan to stay on the main roads, then a bigger adventure bike would be more enjoyable. In my opinion, a comfortable twin would be best.

As for minimum mods on a 250 dual sport:

• Long range tanks
• Radiator protector
• Bash plate
• Strengthened sub frame, on models where these are known to be weak
• Metal panniers, lockable. (There is an endless discussion of soft vs hard. It is my opinion that for crossing Africa in particular, hard is best).
• Center stand
• Comfortable seat
• Hand protectors (i.e. barkbusters)
• Windshield
• 12 V sigaretter socket, possibly also a USB socket
• Phone and Navigation holders
• Camel toe on sidestand
• Upgrade any model specific weak points

Other upgrades are in my opinion unnecessary luxuries for most riders - the nice to haves that often end up not warranting the money and effort. In some cases, mods can come to bite you in the ass or make life cumbersome. If you are wondering if you need it, it is likely you don't - you probably don't have the experience level to get the most out of it (i.e. expensive shock upgrades). For most, the priority should be: reliability, safety, simplicity, keeping as much stock as possible and change only things that really makes a big difference, save money for off the bike luxuries... and in that order.

My dream bike for a satellite trip in Africa would be the likes of a Husqvarna 701 Enduro. For crossing Africa it would be something like a Yamaha WR250. For an RTW it would be a Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports with the DCT gear box and wheelie control.

But a classic Vespa can do the job.

I think the 250cc will be fine - the vast majority of bikes in Africa are smaller, and although most of them don't do long trips, they are exposed to the same conditions as you will encounter. We travelled with a friend on a 100cc Bajaj Boxer through eastern Uganda to the Kenyan border and it was amazingly capable.

The only bike I've owned which I've used in Africa was a 500cc ex-police bike, which I found robust and capable but I have to say that it was heavier than would have been ideal. When we were considering a two-bike trip through South America we thought that the 660cc Teneré would be the best option, however would have preferred a smaller, lighter bike (we ended up doing the trip in a 4x4).

All I say is CRF250L. Me and my wife had done almost 90000km on them, before Corona came.
We did nothing but oil/filter changes, tires, sprockets, chains, chain sliders. Even the valves didn't need any adjustment. It is probably the most reliable bike in the moment.