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Wich bike is immortal
Im looking to buy a bike for my 2010 worldtrip Since my lack off mechanical skills i need a bike wich never brakes down i know that every bike is good and at the best bike there could brake something bust still wat should i buy
the 1200gs or the 660tenere or an old xt600 or DR400 or what can you advise for me |
No bike is immortal, unfortunately!! However, if you are travelling alone, I would not bother with the extra power and weight of a 1200 (two up is a different matter). 650cc or less should be ample. Personally, I quite like the aircooled singles from Honda (wot I got!!) or Yamaha (popular with many members on here). Air-cooled means one less system to worry about as well as being lighter (the radiator and cooling jacket coolant pump etc) and, being aircooled, they are usually less tuned up and so possibly more relaible (?).
More importantly, they can be bought quite cheaply. Just be prepared to change the seat. My Honda XR400 is not bum friendly. It is, in fact, bum-phobic... Would help other members if we had an idea of your destinations, chosen terrain, weight quota for luggage etc, not to mention budget (its a lot of miles and hostel stays in the price difference between a 1200GS and an old XT600!!): helps narrow things down. But whatever you do, REGARDLESS WHAT ANYONE SAYS ON HERE: TAKE YOUR POTENTIAL CHOICES FOR A NICE LONG TEST RIDE!!! You will be the one riding it, so you must a) be comfy, b)enjoy riding it and c) be comfy. Did I mention enjoying it??? |
Hello Ivan,
I almost fell off my chair laughing when I read that in your quest for an ‘immortal’ bike, you had shortlisted the 1200GS... You must be either joking or completely ignorant! Do yourself a big favour and spend some time reading up on the travelogues hosted on HU and on other web sites (e.g. ADVRider.com) and it won’t take you long to figure out that the GS is far from being an infallible bike. Your naïve belief in the GS’s reliability is only the result of BMW’s clever marketing strategies. I made the same mistake a few decades ago when I bought into BMW’s marketing hype fueled by their victories in the Dakar rally. I was also convinced that the then-new-on-the-market R80G/S was the ultimate adventure/RTW bike. After a few years travelling across Africa together with my girlfriend (now my wife), my dad back home in Belgium was puzzled why I never asked for parts (apart from ‘consumables’ like chains & sprockets) for my girlfriend’s XT350 while I regularly send him requests to mail me parts for the RG/80S. He thought she had parked her XT somewhere and was riding pillion across Africa… It didn’t take me long to realize I had been fooled into the wrong choice, and that I should also have bought a XT350, as it turned out to be stone-axe reliable. This said, keep in mind that the air-cooled R80G/S was a far simpler and more reliable bike than the modern GS oil-heads. And then we’re not even considering the ‘weight’ factor. If the itinerary of your RTW trip includes long distances on sandy/muddy dirt roads (inevitable when crossing Africa), riding a heavily-laden GS is anything but fun. They are already overweight behemoths before you even start adding any luggage. Just borrow or rent a 1200GS for a few hours riding in deep sand (e.g. in northern Limburg) and see if you still want to short list it as the ideal bike for your RTW trip. Regardless of which year GS model, they all suffer from grossly inadequate suspension that won’t last long when the bike is loaded up and ridden on bad roads, contrary to what BMW’s fancy publicity portrays. I can’t even begin to recall the number of GS owners that I’ve met on my travels stranded somewhere waiting for a replacement shock absorber to be shipped to them (including myself). The drive train is also not without weaknesses, and that is putting it politely. My comments here might draw rebuke from die-hards that swear by the GS, as BMW has its fair share of fashion-victims, similar to what you’ll find with H-D or Ducati fans. I don’t care about brands, I’ll ride anything that suits my riding style (preference for off-road) and fits my criteria and road conditions. (I currently own more than a dozen bikes, all ‘singles’, ranging from the XR650R, KLR650, XT350,… to KTM EXC’s and even a … BMW F650 (with the reliable Rotax engine, although the water pump seal is known to be problematic)). I fully agree with Warthog’s advice to opt for simple, proven technology, especially since you’re not technically inclined. I would also opt for a Japanese air-cooled single with carburetor and kick-starter if I were to head off again on a year-long trip across Africa. But with the increasingly stringent emission and noise regulations, I admit that it is becoming difficult to find a new or good second-hand air-cooled trail bike, as the manufacturers have been forced to adopt water-cooled fuel-injected engines. They are mostly quite reliable, but also more complex. And since you're not an experienced 'spanner man'... Like Warthog mentioned, you should give us a bit more information on where you intend to go, how much luggage you want to carry, whether you prefer to ride off-road, budget, etc. before we can recommend particular bikes. If you prefer the offroad end of the adventure riding spectrum, forget about big twins like the GS1200. If riding lots of offroad is part of your game plan, you should consider bikes like the DR650, XR650L/R, XT600/660, KLR650, 640Adv, TE610 etc., or even lighter bikes like the XR400, DR350/400, XT350 etc. I’ve become a firm believer of the maxim that captures best my travelling style: the ‘less = more’ approach: less ‘stuff/luggage/hi-tech’ is more ‘riding fun’. But I realize I’m part of a small minority when one considers the number of ‘big heavy Touratech-on-GS catalogues’ on the road. Drop me an email if your RTW trip takes you to my part of the world, dan ben je altijd welkom om bij ons frieten ‘op zijn belgisch’ te komen eten. In elk geval wens ik je een goeie reis. |
Forgot to mention one thing. Since your RTW trip will only start in 2010, you still have enough time to learn how to do maintenance and repairs on your bike, even if your knowledge of bike technology is very poor. Ask a knowledgeable friend or even pay a bike mechanic to be your instructor or let you watch when he works on bikes. Study the work shop manuals.
Even if you leave future road-side repairs in the hands of a mechanic, at least you'll be able to understand and check what he is doing. Being able to do the regular maintenance and diagnose and repair most faults by yourself will make a major difference in your level of confidence and peace of mind and hence in your enjoyment of your RTW journey. |
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Most on here will agree as already said that a KTM 950 ADV or a 1200GS is overkill for a solo trip. And not exactly the most trouble free bikes in the world The older 1100GS has plenty of cases of 300,000-600,000km on the clock. I have one myself because I'm just north of you in Tilburg,NL and often jump on the motorway and "cough" "cough" make good progress :innocent: down to the southern Ardenne and Germany on the weekends etc. She runs brilliant and is a plessure for this and some mild single track. I did a week trip to the Alps with borrowed big heavy camping gear ( mine is in NZ) and i hardly even noticed the luggage on the bike - once moving. But I'm looking at getting a cheap transalp or xt600 for a trip through the stan's for these reasons; 1 Cost. the bike will get a beating and with no insurance in alot of those countrys I'm not made of money to go and drop another 5-6000 eur on another bike if it gets stolen or heavily damaged. 2-3000 is less of a trip stopper! 2 Power... When taking it offroad or down rough tracks I'm only using 10% of all that power no point of having all that grunt if you can't use it on a rough country road. And at any rate ..power.. for what? it's (not normally) a race. 300km per day max is more reasonable than 800km per day ( though those days will sometimes happen) taking a bit more time to look at the country you're riding through 3Weight... your bike will lie down... often! if it be that it fell off the stand or a slip on loose sand. If it breaks down or or you simply decide a particular section of road is not for you..getting the bike onto a pick-up truck or a train.. al the extra gear and luggage will be enough weight without starting off with a 250kg bike! Go for a light japanese single cylinder if you plan on doing the "less developed" countrys or maybe a older transalp twin if you plan to stick to the hard stuff more. The africa twins, Transalps, XT's and KLR's are all popular and very reliable. But not failproof! But as has been said test ride! test ride! test ride! Something to keep in mind if you haven't already... Belguim has no import tax so once you narrow down what you want; have a look at mobile.de - Deutschlands größter Fahrzeugmarkt. Suchen, kaufen oder verkaufen Sie Neu- und Gebrauchtwagen and AutoScout24 Europas Automarkt für Gebrauchtwagen und Neuwagen for bikes for sale in Germany. There's a massive selection for sale and for very good prices Success! PS if you want to meet up for a coffee and a chat PM me! Cheers Steve. |
Thanks for the advice and quick reply
As mentioned i still have a year so still some time i now follow a cours in russian reading and speaking .After reading your comment i have decided on a yamaha Xt600 from 86' for one its cheap and according to owners it should keep on riding with basic spare parts .The plan is to drive from Belgium to Germany ,Czech republic ,Poland ,Lithuania ,Latvia ,Estland ,Russia Stpeterburg to Vladivostok and with boat to Japan and home and if finance allows it i would not go to Japan en go down true Mongolia to China then Vietnam Laos and Thailand and then home and in ther best case i could go on to Timor to then cross to Australia after that going home but i think its going to be Japan bringing the yamaha to Yamaha seems challenging enough
En die frietekes als ik Thailand moest halen zullen tegen dan echt goed smaken ik zal echte belgische mayonaise meebrengen voor jullie :offtopic: Greetz to All on and off the roads of Mother road |
OK. I still get the impression that you are travelling solo, Ivan, so I stick to my original advice. However, its a shame that Gypsyrider didn't have much joy with his BM, as our 1150 GS did really well for us in Chile and Argentina with a mixture of tarmac and dirt (although most on tarmac). It only needed oil filters oil and rear tyres for spares.
As with Steve, if you are going two-up, I would quite happily recommend you try the 1150 or 1100 GSs, having owned both (although most miles were on the 1150). Bottom line is, though, its your trip so test ride those you think would suit your needs, and go from there. I also agree with the various advice about increasing your technical experience. You do not need to be able to strip an engine using nail-clippers to be able to keep your bike ticking over nicely. That said, the fewer cylinders, the easier its is likely to be. Basics like changing you fluids, adjusting chain (if you have one), changing filters and even doing the valve clearances and balancing the carbs (if you have more than one) are pretty straight forward once you have had a go, and passed the fear of taking a casing off the engine! Doing some basic jobs regularly can help avoid the need for any major work ever being necessary. You can always buy a general motorcyle maintenance book to get faimiliar with the systems and some of the procedures and once you have chosen a bike, you can get a maintenance manual specific to that bike. I am not a garage guru, by any means, but the sorts of jobs listed above are fine, and are quite feasible for most people... |
the immortal bike is the push-bike. rather then that, all motorbikes have problems on long rides. the question is which is more reliable. i am sure there are more experienced people then me. if you are travelling solo go for a air cooled japanese single like xt600 or dr650. just my 2 cents worth:)
have fun |
when things go wrong as they invariably will at some stage, and you are stuck with a dead bike, what can you actually push, pickup on your own, and fix with a 10,12,13,17mm spanner? keep it as simple as possible.
in my opinion, forget anything with a computer (cdi's are good sometimes), fuel injection and bigger than 600cc. I have always lusted after a gerbil (djerbil), but thats another story.... |
Immortality = Memories
Bikes are just like human beings. They can only be immortal if they've lived a memorable life. I can say that the immortal bike will be the bike you will have your RTW trip whatever the problems will arise. Sometimes the magnitude of the troubles also increases the immortality span.
Cheers from Izmir, Turkey. |
..bikes close to be immortal are: 1. Honda XR650L 2.Suzuki DR650SE 3.Kawasaki KLR650. If you check who is travelling around the world you will understand, that they are using simple single motorcycles as the above. You can travel everywhere and you can do everything, with and on them.
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Know whichever bike you choose. It sucks being stranded with a broken down bike when you look at it thinking 'What does this do?'. Haynes manuals are good for explaining the basics in remarkable detail. We've done a large part of that route on our last/ first bike trip and travelled a lot of the other without a bike, so feel free to drop me a line or have a look on my blog. We're away on our own trip in a few weeks, but should be back in Oz during yours. Dus mocht je naar de Gold Coast komen, dan is er hier een garage beschikbaar. |
If you are going to stay on paved roads and good gravel roads .
If you cannot or will not learn about your bike's mechanical and electrical components . If you want to keep up with traffic in the the developed world , If you want a reliable bike , Buy a 650 VStrom . |
WOW Gypsy that was such hate on the BMW. But hes right about the maintenance the 1200 needs so do many of the "high end" bikes the dealers call it cost of ownership. If you like the idea of the BMW GS consider a DL650 by the sounds of your trip It will do you well.
Now about the trip Japan will not want you to import your bike and ride around. It can be done but more of a problem than it may be worth. Much of south east Asia is the same way. Then there is China you had better start the applications now if you must go. The price of going threw China you can ride North America and South America perhaps. My recommendations get a cheaper bike like a KLR (it dose not realy mater as much as you think) ride Europe and Asia It can be shiped home sold or just given to someone. Rent bikes in China and SE Asia. Fly to the USA get a lightly used bike ride Norht and south America. |
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The fact that you want to travel the world on a bike but expect it never to break down worries me. May i sugest you choose your bike now and start preparing it for travel. You see, it doesn't mater if you get the BMW, Kawasaki, Honda or whatever, they ALL BREAK! They all need their short comings remedied and you need to create an intimate relationship with the machine which will become your most important possession in the entire world. I work as a BMW mechanic part time and have built a few travel bikes. Having owned a 1200 GS, i would not recomend this bike for world travel, for reasons that were stated earlier. On the other hand, an older airhead, like the R80G/S or even the R100 GS, with the proper preperation has proven to be an excellent choice, along with the KLR's, DR's, XR's and XT's, but remember, ALL these bikes need to be studied, scrutinized and prepared for travel before you can proceed. There is only one simple answer to your question, buy a bike that makes you comfortable and puts a smile on your face, research it's shortcomings and prepare it for travel. Make sure you build a proper toolkit and try to get informational CD's on your model. Prepare your luggage and make sure the sub-frame is up to the task, otherwise re enforce it. Low horse power air cooled motors are usually an excellent choice. No bike has a real advantage for parts availability so consider using cleanable air and oil filters. Try to stick to the more common tire sizes, like 21" front and 17"-18" rear, the oil head BMW's have a big disadvantage in this area. Never under estimate the importance of a good skid plate! Make sure your charging system is ready for all the accesories you plan on bolting on, like lights, GPS, heated grips (i recommend them) and heated jacket. Trust me on the heated jacket, you won't regret it :) If you buy a chain drive, carry lots of master links and only use a good chain like DID. Toss the alloy sprockets and replace them with steel or stainless steel if you can. Learn how to lubricate it properly, there's lots of opinion there! If you choose a shaft drive, make sure you get a greasable drive shaft and learn how to maintain it. I have around 100k km on mine now,. but i love to work on my bike:) Prepare your suspension! Most bikes come with junk non-rebuildable shocks, except for KTM's WP. Ohlins has a good reputation, along with Wilburs, which is my favorite. Wrap your shock spring with a Shock sock to keep out dirt, this is the #1 killer of seals. I like to also cut a piece or rubber from a tire tube and drape it over the shock using a hose clamp to attach it. Protect your front forks with Gaitors to protect them from rocks and such. Consider your bike will be heavily loaded with stuff, adjust or replace your forksprings accordingly. As reliable as the Japanese bikes are, their handle bars and brake lines are for the most part junk. Pro taper or Magura and stainless lines are a good investment, along with aluminum insert hand guards to protect your fingers and handles. Do some research on your brake pads and rotors, they will cross reference with other makes of bikes making it easier to get them in foreign countries. I met a guy who thought he could only get brakes for his BMW from the dealer! Spoke wheels are superior to cast and usually repairable. I love the tubeless spoke rims from Behr of Akront used on the BMW GS's, very strong and reliable along with the ease of tubeless repair using a plug. Regardless, you must carry a tube in the event if a side wall puncture which is sometimes unrepairable. Purchase an air-pump, i like the Slime pump. Cheap and good! Practice repairing your tires, you'll need it down the road! Finally, don't read too much into the bike bashing that goes on here, it's a waste of energy and really doesn't help you. One bike is as bad as another if neither are properly prepared for travel. Enjoy! BTW, i really like that new 660 Tenere, it just might be my next one. I'm looking forward to some good reviews in the future. |
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As other has said there is no immortal bike. The idea of buying an oldish bike and prepare it yourself is good! Another important question is where do you want to go? What type of roads? Will you carry much luggage? What petrol-range do you need? How many km do you want to ride? |
Thanks
Thanks everybody i v made a deciscion it going to be a 1989' Xt600 on wich i will place 3 trunks bags tenere tank the full load to live on the road for min 3 months iv anybody got good tips for this bike what are its weak points please share it with me
have a save ride everybody :scooter: |
Hmmmmmm - dont see any road bikes in these lists ? Before you laugh Nick Saunders and this dutch guy whose name i cant remember both used R1 s and they went off road:thumbup1: there is also an australian guy who used a Fireblade !! If you aint going off road big time why use a trail bike :confused1:
Ok they may be a bit more tech but i defy anyone to say a gs IS MORE RELIABLE :thumbdown: And to hammer home the point my mates Fazer 1000 has just hit 83000 miles used every day and has never had a problem ?c? Just a thought - bound to be plenty of replies to this one i bet :funmeteryes: Im not ignoring you cos im off to Turkey on my Blackbird - and they are certainly more reliable than a Gs . |
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. . Yam Xt, Good choice. Both big enough, and small enough. Enjoy:funmeterno: |
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Unbelievable.... I would have thought that you, of all people would see that to get this topic off the ground again would be a bad idea, Patrick.... And yet I can see it starting all over again. Pigeon-holing from the off.... Firstly, the initial topic has been resolved as this poster seems to have opted for an XT600e, so, as far as I'm concerned I think this new line of discussion is off topic. Secondly, baiting others with terms like "BMW Mind Gestapo" is really not on. You will also remember that I did not care for some other remarks that you made in a now-infamous thread, as I thought them in bad taste and irrelevant. Do we really want to resurrect this again? Gypsyrider is entitled to his opinions as is anyone, and he has owned said bike but, please, please, please lets not go down this road again... For anyone who really feels the need to know the whole story, read it here, http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...s-f650gs-37094 rather than having it re-hashed in a whole new thread.... |
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There is (or was) a tough section between Khavarovsk and Chita in Siberia but because the Djebel was light, it was better suited to deal with the conditions. I dont think I could have done it with a heavier bike. Apparently that section has been fully paved now so there is no problems at all. Japanese aircooled singles are the only way to go, Im convinced. But as said it comes down to what you are comfortable with riding and what makes you smile. My girlfriend and I are doing a RTW now 2-up on a postie bike. I chose this bike because its the most comfiest bike Ive ever ridden and because it makes me and everyone who see's her, smile. Super reliable because I love her so, I take good care of her...(the bike!) Feel free to PM me if you have questions. Faster-Than-Walking N |
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These are ours in Mongolia. Sold them when we got back in Oz. They didn't like the salty coastal air much. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3004/...e1bf4e38_o.jpg |
I still don't understand how people can recomend bikes when they have no idea what the bike will be used for.
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The initial poster hasn't given enough information...hell, if I'd posted the same query on here before I took my trip...I guarantee you the k75 would not have made the long list...but I digress. |
Ivan, I've just done Korea to Italy (via Russia/Kazakhstan/Scandinavia) on a Burgman 650 maxiscooter, and you know what?
If I do it again I'll be doing it on the same bike. The Burgie handled the Khabarovsk to Chita section fine and had minimal problems with the offroading in Kazakhstan. I travelled 30,000km on the Burgman (and another 8,000km in China on a locally produced 125cc road bike). The total amount of offroad riding was around 3,000km or less than 8% of the total journey. Why compromise 92% of the journey by doing it on an offroad bike that is slow, uncomfortable and offers little weather protection? The Burgman handled the offroad with aplomb and yet was smooth, exceedingly comfortable, nimble (you can't beat them round bends) and economical (4-4.5l/100km) onroad. Add to the mix the CVT on the Burgman ,which made for a much more relaxing shift free ride, and you're laughing. See my blog Across the universe for details. Garry from Oz. |
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But if the road is more like this for a few thousands km a streetbike is probably not right. http://www.actiontouring.com/pic/uralr.jpg I know that petrol in Russia can lead to problems with certain bikes but I don’t know if you have to go 200 kms or 1000 kms between fuelstops. Will he travel light or not… IMHO the old XT is one of the best bikes out there, and with the right preparation it should work nice. Gestapo greetings AliBaba |
Were you riding it?
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Woohoo!! Cool picture!! That is what I hope my Ural will be doing in a couple of year's time!! All that is missing is our dog in the chair!! (Must admit that petrol range is my biggest concern for the Ural, though, and there is only so much fuel you can carry...) |
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I would go for a bike which is full mechanical .. dont worry too much for your mechanical skills . You will learn on the way (which i think how everybody learned....hard way) I would go for a bike with a supplier who ships parts worldwide ... I would go for a 2 cylinder bike ... |
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Which brings me to the idea of BMW bashing. I had a Ural with which I had a love-hate relationship. I hated the fact it mostly ran on one cylinder and made a horrible noise with it's gearbox and loved everything else to the point where I put the Ural chair on the Triumph. This I can fix as it only rarely has issues which mostly get fixed by swapping electrical bits. How i'd love a Ural made by Honda and sold at Triumph prices :oops2::offtopic: The point to me then with bike choice is what are you most comfortable with? I'm good with electrics but hate carbs. I have no issues with getting a blink code out of an ECU but wouldn't know a gearbox fork from a fish knife or soup spoon. To me you need to research the bikes that'll do what you need when running and find out what stops them. Then you need to learn the fixes. Technology is a matter of knowledge. Anyone out there know how to use a theodolite to find their position? A few old boys will think you are nuts for chancing your navigation to an electronic set up. Our kids will laugh at us explaining now we used to set the mixture by doing plugs chops and listening for pinking. We'll wonder what happens when the 2049 XT can't talk to Yamaha central for it's hourly update and reset for the last lot of fuel. I think the first reply says it all, go ride is the main way, but you also need to get other peoples REAL experiences. I think the myth of BMWs infalibility is as false as some of the repeated tales of over complexity. Personally I'd go for an XT, Bonneville or Bullet, but that's only because I know these in detail. If someone ran a mechanics course on Urals I'd get one. It's what YOU know that counts when you are out there. You can't buy reliability IMHO and the people who do huge trips on C90's, Harleys, Guzzis, Cagiva Elefants etc. just prove it. Andy |
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The problem on the road is finding the problem. In a workshop it's easy, just plug in and the vehicle tells you. Would you go on a big trip without a multi meter? Then why have an R1200GS a thousand miles from the nearest service tool? You can do field repairs (and the big tip; assume it's NEVER the electronic), but the skills are very different from finding a problem with an older style system. The conclusion is the same of course. Andy |
Re. BMW Bashing
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Hello everybody,
I've taken in this thread with lots of amusement by the high pitched controversy re. BMs reliability. Not wanting to put any oil into the flames and admitting that you CAN be lucky to ride an airhead without any failures, my personal experience is another one I've had an R100GS, rode it for 4 years from 30k to 100k kms, mostly in europe on tarmac, with some, but not much travels on gravel and sand. In this time I needed to replace/overhaul gearbox twice, shaft twice, alternator twice, starter motor twice, diode board twice, ignition switch once, hall sensor once, front wheel once (leaking air), rear shock once (snapped literally), brake rotor once (coming loose from the hub), to name just a few. This gave me some unpleasant situations in the libyan sahara, eastern anatolia, christmas day in southern spain and so on. three times it was a show stopper, vehicle to be towed / trucked. Total cost of spares (without consumables) 3500 Euro. Now thats impressive....contacted BMW, they wouldnt want to know about it, telling me I was the only one to experience all this...warranty? Nope. After this I was absolutely fed up with the BM, sold it and, as my wife got a 89 transalp with absolutely nothing going wrong on it in all this time, 2004 went for a 99 Africatwin with 40 k km. Now, after many travels and a 9 months trip all over South America the AT is at 100 k, the Transalp at 130k and all we had to change after the trip was the head bearings.. Oh, I forgot, the AT's speedo worm gear wore out in Patagonia... So, for me also BMW is finished. Altough I would not use all the bad language used in this thread so far, there were times when would have ranted the same way or even worse.... Its unlucky as the BMs are made in my country but for me Japan rules...and that is not second hand opinion but bitter experience... Martin |
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Firstly, I do think that the Bonnie will be more efficient. The Triumph engine is way more modern; running a lot more efficiently, IMO. After all the Ural engine is bascially a mildly refined 1940s design, as you are probably aware given your woes with it!! So, as such I think the Bonnie would get better MPG. Then there is the chair. A fellow Ural rider once told me, very solemnly, that a brick really was more aerodynamic than an outfit!! So that won't help much. The very best I have had from my rig is 45mpg, and that happened only once, riding alone, a steady 50-60mph on a straight road for an hour or so. At all other times, its more like 33-35mpg. That does not take into account my girlfriend, the dog, kit for 8 months, fuel and water as you say, not to mention off-road. I hope you are right and I'm wrong, but so far I think 30-35mpg is realsitic and that is not far with a 19 litre tank (130 miles or so). Add to that the 20 litre Jerry can and I can hope for 250-280 miles? I may try and squeeze a bit more here and there, but the chair cannot be filled with stuff or the dog will have perching room only, and I would feel a bit ashamed if she only had 40 litres of unleaded as a bed-fellow! |
Sjaak Lucassen | travelling the world by motorcycle | Yamaha YZF R1
YouTube - R1 Travelling The World it has all been done before it will be done agen A R1 not my first choice but it has been done. |
I've just stumbled onto this thread - what a can of worms.
My advice would be to not consider which bike, but as a primary concern consider reading up about what an 'average' bike requires at each service interval (new oil, clean/new oil/air filter(s), valve clearances, etc etc). Forums such as advrider.com (others are available) are ideal for reading up on the how-to guides. This is how I approached my recent trans-africa trip and in doing so found my KTM to be 'bullet-proof'. I did 20k km's and not a single engine problem. I reckon the golden rule is to service regularly yourself because you never know what other mechanics do or don't do, and also perform a mini 'inspection' service yourself between each major interval. Just my two cents. Mark |
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I'm trying to work out if it's weight or aerodynamics that really effect range. I think in my case it's the nut on the throttle that needs changing :confused1::offtopic: Andy |
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This one - MINE! The venerable and legendary XT600E
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air cooled singles!!
Pushbike is immortal....
but air cooled singles, and Japanese ofcourse :thumbup1: "Im sure you guys remember about the guy who got his bike stolen somewhere & I think its either Yamaha or Honda had replaced his bike with a new one f.o.c :D!!!" |
BMW r100gs road test: Results = mortal
Having undertaken the following road test:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...mw-r100gs-7766 I now own 5 bikes: Unsurprisingly none are made in Germany. Furthermore, upon taking advice from people who have also been there and done it, none are made in Austria, Italy, India or the USA either. 4 are made in Japan (3 x singles, 1 x twin) and one in England (triple). BMW = Bring Mir Werkzeug (the German for "bring me tools") ChrisB |
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Having completed a trip from the U.S. to Argentina I would also not recommend taking a BMW. Finding parts and tools is a major PITA. The guys that do best imo are the ones with Africa Twins, Transalps, V-stroms, DR650, and KLR 650s.
These bikes still break down once in a while but are a lot easier to fix and can be frankensteined a lot easier then a German bike can. |
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http://www-bdnew.fnal.gov/hq/mcginni...ankenstein.jpg In 3rd world (I hate this term but have no better). People regularly "make do", they simply make the part they need from something else.. it is amazing what someone can make from a old tyre a tin can and some duck tape this is why I prefer the term MacGyverable. http://sharetv.org/images/macgyver-show.jpg The one thing that they can not make is a new computer controlled dohicky for your microchip assisted ABS.. So go old and simple and you will be happy. |
I reckon that's bullshit myself. What do you really need to keep an FI rolling? The same as a non FI. Fuel, air and electricity. FI's have a 'get me the f out of here' program. If something fails, it still goes, you just don't get the performance it's designed to give. So what. If you're carby isn't jetted right, you get the same result. I haven't heard of a failing FI system yet.
If your ABS goes, you don't have ABS. Does that matter? You still have brakes. What else electrical is there that we can go into? Local mechanics may be more suited towards mechanical things, but that's just evolution. In the future they'll have to get up to speed with electrical engineering. And I'm sure they will. For them it's survival. You find the latest Mercedes cars in the most unusual places and I'm pretty sure that the people at Mercedes don't bring out a 'third world' design without electrical components. A friend of mine drove converted trucks through South America for tourist groups on Toucan tours which were the latest around. Think your typical late fourties old fashioned trucky. At the time I had an old bike and used that argument to him but he rebuffed it by saying that when his trucks went in the middle of nowhere, you just push all that shit aside and you'll be dealing with the same of cogs and shaft as before. I've now been working and preparing and FI bike for months now and I've started to agree. I've taking the much revered XTze 3aj around half the world, and couldn't find parts for it outside Europe. And that things was nearly 20 years old. It's not like parts gets distributed further the older it gets. It's all about the preperation like Mr Ron and other said before. If you don't do your homework, you get bad grades. That principle lives on after school. |
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(BTW: I realise that my posting is off topic to a near-Biblical proportion. Sorry for that. But I couldn't let "MacGyverable" prevail, now could I?) |
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Incontrast.. I rode for 3 weeks in Romania with out rear brakes on my old honda.. Quote:
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What a silly question - my '75 Moto Guzzi V7, off course. North Pole, South Pole, three years, 60.000 k's and she never failed on me. Spent only 700 bucks on maintanance, including three sets of tires and 100 liters of oil. How 'bout that?
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For clearing fault codes on the F and maybe others you can get this little unit built by Jerome in France. Just one of these things that are part of the evolution of the increasing presence of electrical engineers in the automotive industry. I've got one and am very impressed with it. It'll be first tool used when the tell tell lights come on. http://www.geocities.com/robertosat/cmon.jpg |
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Like I said I dont understand these things,My bike is a simple old honda (aftrica twin), and hence i dont need to know the in and outs.. But I do feel that is a small village out in the middle of nowhere a simple bike is easier to Bodge a fix then complex one. |
Bike choice.
Nice post!
Have to agree with the 600-650 air cooled choices being offered. I run a GS1200 and wouldn't use it for a big trip with a fair bit of off road, instead have a Honda XR650L, (Dominator engined XR600). Anything that's electronically complex is lovely when it works but when it doesn't or gets damaged!! Your back street mechanic is gonna do next to nothing for a fuel injection/electronic problem if one should occur. The availability of spares ect may be an issue too, and as Jap bikes have found their way to most places on the planet this is a bonus, plus, many enduro type bikes share common parts (brake components ect), especially true with the Honda XR's Weight is a biggie too! Especially on sand. The new GS's are a bit too flashy for some places I think too with an air of "rich tourist" about em. Good luck with whatever you choose though, as mentioned, get a fair few miles done on whatever you go for to learn he in's and out's of the bike and make changes while your in your home country. Dave. |
seems to be one missing...
i been reading this topic and have to say that a carburetor based single, has got to be the best choice...anything you can hit with a hammer or tweak with a screwdriver to make work has got to be a good thing!
i have owned plenty of motocross / enduro bikes in the past and am now looking at options for the BIG TRIP..seems to me most people skirt over KTM as a manufacturer.. my experience with them has always been good, am i missing something here, or is there a reason why they dont seem to get much of a look in, on these kind of threads? myself im considering a 640cc lc4 adventure... any thoughts welcome! |
There are a few good threads featuring KTM's . I'd make sure I paid extra
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ktm bikes
cheers for the perspective guys, i been doing loads of reading on forums and chatting to guys with these bikes to get a better idea...sure i bet they will need plenty of staying on top of, ref. maintenance. and renazco i have heard of a few times before...sure wouldnt let a hard seat put me off having a big smile!
gonna continue my research and get hands on with a few models...not looking at anything older than the 2007 640, as i dont see the small saving of getting an older bike helping me out in the middle of nowhere! for my trip, im planning quite a slow ride / lots of offroad or tracks...hence the bias towards ktm...but would deffo be interested in hearing more about the top rated mile munching singles out there...no evil twins or electro dooberrys for this rider! cheers |
if I needed something I could email them for help.
Good travels, |
patrick, thanks for that reply! seemed very balanced and not bias in either of the slippery slopes that we all know about...when i get home from working away, ill definitely have a look at a couple of the lighter jap singles you mentioned, having had a couple of dt's / xl's and an rm in the past, i know they hold up well and arent a pain in the derriere to work on!
as for loading up bikes..no thanks! i work away most of the year travelling in and around africa's finest back country nowheres, so dont tend to have much in the way of 'things' and prefer to keep it that way! some of the bikes i have seen leaving through tarifa in spain have made my eyes pop with how lovingly the owners have stacked up their 'things'. im not discounting the ktm as yet, and will definitely have to spend regular time on love and kisses for the girl, but, as i expect to buy a second bike for the americas [rather than shipping], perhaps a jap single for the africa/asia/europe bit would make most sense. thanks again for your thoughts...too easy to daydream about shiny fangled toys, rather than keeping your eye on the ball...if i were being mr sensible head, then id have to agree 400-650 jap single, cheap n cheerful and reliable; as opposed to [please dont shoot me down!] an all singing all dancing mortgage machine such as a shiny new bimmer. i know which one, i would be less worried about dropping on the rough stuff! |
For the record: The only true immortal bike around is the one that is owned by Chuck Norris. I just thought you should know.
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Indu is right, unfortunate for us...
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Electronics
Ok, i'm an ex industry "insider". I used to sell ABS systems for trucks. Believe me you will NEVER be stranded by a failed electronic unless someone has been welding or letting off Atom bombs. ALL other failures are down to the same electrical issues that will stop any spark ignition engine, chaffed wiring, water, bad earth's etc. In 14 years of testing ECU's returned from truck dealers I think I accepted two as out of warrenty failures, so massively under 1%.
What will strand you is dealers who are muppets. Resetting an ECU does NOTHING except clear the error codes into a different part of the memory structure. At each start up old errors are moved, the ECU looks for all it's components and follows it's logic structure accordingly. Kill the power on permanant supply pin and the ECU MUST assume it's on a new vehicle and will start up again from scratch. If the same pin is wrong it'll store the same error and externally looks like it did nothing. Clearing the memory just looses the data that might help you do a permanant fix. Some old ECU's did lock up when they'd stored the same fault 255 times, but this is bad practice unless there is a very good reason (safety is been ignored). These lock out's only ever put the vehicle into limp home mode. What the muppets at BMW did in this case was remove the battery, unplug the ECU, WD-40 the pins and put it back. They then used the diagnostic tool to watch the start up routine! The corroded/loose pin that caused the problem is still there. Plan B is to ring my opposite number at BMW tech support and say "we fitted three ECU's and they all do the same, the customers really hacked off", to which BMW's chief techie will say "it ain't the ECU mate, get your meter out and find the problem". My advice for dealing with Electronics:
That said, why the heck would you want an ECU to make your indicators flash a la R1200GS is beyond me. The only advantage there is to BMW's production costs. Don't get electronics for the sake of it, but don't discount what you don't know either. Andy |
I work with industrial applications and have used various bus-systems for 15-20 years. In short my experience is that the bus-systems have less fault then conventional systems and when there is a fault it’s easier to find because cabling are minimum.
As earlier said the main components rarely fail, it’s mostly bad connections (water, corrosion) or a cable break once in a while. Usually the system will tell you which component it can’t reach, unlike the conventional systems. The process of finding fault is a bit different using some kind of computer like your mobile or GS911 but it’s possible to buy tickets for the bus or surf on internet via a mobile so why not use it to fix your bike? On a bike the fault will be even easier to find because the network is quite small. The bike is not even 2 meters long and doesn’t have many electrical components. The main problem with error-tracking on conventional systems are that there are two many wires and components – with a bus-system you decrease wiring and components so the possibility of errors get smaller. In a while it will be possible for a computer in Japan to find errors via your phone when you stuck in Angola. In the future we will se bus-systems on most bikes, and after a while we will get control modules which are freely programmable. This means you can control everything on your bike the way you want (light, injection, ignition, indicators ++). The modules for ignition and injection are already on the market but this is just a vague start. Personally I have never heard about errors with the can-bus system, on the 1200GS it even tells you that the ring-antenna has broken before you push the start-button. Computers (and bus-systems) control airplanes, traffic-lights, trains, power-systems and most of the infra structure, believe me it’s also able to control a few things on a motorbike…. On the other hand I’m not sure if newish bikes are made to be immortal. The important factors when designing a bike is related to power, weight, looks and cost. Most of these factors do not increase longevity. |
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The third ECU I believe is what we'd call the dash and they'll call a Central Module or Rider Module. It takes any function not directly related to engine or brakes. The two wire system is CAN (Control Alpha Numeric). Each item and function has a code made up of an identifier, item and status. So as a made up example ECU AA is the dashboard, item 47 the rear left indicator and 00 means it's off (I made up these numbers). So long as the (electrical) switch is open circuit the dashboard transmits AA4700 as a series of 1's and 0's via the two wires. This has a repeat rate of something like 60 milliseconds on most vehicles. The rest of the time is filled with every other message going round the system in a big queue, each ECU watching for anything it might be interested in. Press the switch, ground a pin on the ECU and the message is changed to AA4701 for indicator on. In this case the indicator is actually flashed by the same ECU, but on a truck or car another ECU a lot nearer the back might control the actual voltage once it saw the message change. The advantage is that if for some reason the ABS or FI needed to know you were turning left, it would get a clue when the AA47XX message changed. You can also do clever tricks like have a controlling ECU respond with another code only when it see's the voltage drop of the lamp. No voltage drop means blown lamp, means put the red light on and maybe flash a tail light as an additional safety feature. For something like the starter motor lockout it makes a lot more sense as you really do save a lot of copper by running two small wires in a loop, but even so it's a very small system with honestly limited function. A truck with seven ECU's and lights galore has a lot more potential for improved function, even more when the trailer has the same and you can talk via the two wires. You'll gather I'm not a huge BMW fan after one or two service issues in the past. As a little dig, their two wire system needs three or four: CAN-HI, CAN-LOW, Power and Earth :smartass: Andy |
Ahem ! Wow ! No thanks !
Coil and points ignition is plenty complicated for me , even Hall effect dodads are black magic . I thought CANBUS was a new public transport system in Toronto . Back to my cave I suppose , very happy to be stuck in the stone [ flint ] age . Whatever happened to hot tube igntion, magnetos and acetylene lamps ? |
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(Although I am mighty impressed by the CANBUS insight you guys have. It's strange: Just as I learnt how to disassemble a carb and diagnose a misfire feeling on top of the World :) I am thrown back into the tar pit just because CANBUS is the new name of the trade...) |
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On the other hand no bike comes with a multimeter or a torque-wrench… Quote:
If you want to take a look on how it works, look here: YouTube - GS-911 Diagnostic Tool Quote:
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I've heard various descriptions of what CAN stands for. Area Network is a useful description and in the case I heard it Crap And No good was fair at the time :rofl:
I've not had much to do with cars, but SAE J1939 the CAN standard goes back to the mid 90's. There were simpler versions before that that could get three or four functions on one wire in the late '80's and I imagine the luxury car people were first. I've not seen one working, but doesn't the new Tenere have a sort of fault code display on the dash or at least an FI mode set up? Andy |
keep rolling it
One of the most intresting threads i ever come across regarding adventure bikes thanks chaps
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Interesting question. I agree Mr. Ron in everything he said because I did everything wrong. And, like a miracle, I am still riding farther and longer. I mean, current bikes are all good and all bad. All of them break down. And it is a mess when happens, but that is the game. Waiting for a spare while stuck in Kazakhstan is part of this business.
I have to confess I’ve been riding all my life and I do not know a s…t about engines and mechanic issues. I am a sinner. I decided riding the world one day and I didn’t know how to change spark plugs. Of course, after few months on the road, you learn how to change spark plugs, tyres, wheels, oil, filters and even money at borders. I am saying I didn’t know a s…t about Ted Simon, Touratech, Long Way Down, aluminium panniers and all the stuff. I just bought a preowned BMW 1200 G/S with plastic suitcases, no GPS, no new shocks and even no BMW gear, and went to Samarkand. Later I went to a lot of different places but I am still feeling like a foreigner riding crappy bikes and not well prepared for the adventure. But like the big fly who keeps on flying with small wings, I keep on riding farther and longer. Even BMW found surprisingly riding the World in their standard bikes (not too confident, isn't it?) http://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/news/?news_table=national_news&article_id=69 No matter about bikes, all of them are good and all of them are bad. Is about you. Do you want to ride? Ride. |
I personally have no problem whatsoever with CANbus. Because it is a protocal, there is nothing to fail. It a language, or a program. The components operated by CANbus are what might fail, like micro switches, frayed wires and occasionally the computer itself. These failures are rare, and are no different than broken chains, dead coils and magnetic pick-up failure. CANbus has been around for a long time and is nothing new. The automotive industry has been using CANbus since the 90's, and industry even longer. CANbus is far simpler than the standard wiring system, is cleaner, lighter and has the added bonus of telling you where the problem is as opposed to having to diagnose it yourself. Most people are afraid of CANbus because they don't understand what it is or how it works. Carrying a GS911 diagnostic tool in your kit is no different that carrying the special exhaust nut tool for an air-head, or the right size axel nut wrench for your Suzuki. Like i mentioned before, you need to understand the short comings of your particular bike.
My thoughts on Fuel Injection: I recently purchased a Suzuki DR650. Excellent bike! Tough, solid low compression engine, air cooled and anvil like reliability. BUT... if there is one thing i could change, it would be binning the carb and installing fuel injection :thumbup1: I hate carburetors! They suck in altitude change and are innefficient. They are a pain in the ass to work on and IMHO are complicated, filled with moving parts and have far more components that are prone to failure. FI on the other hand is far simpler, consisting of a pump, an injector, an oxygen sensor and a controll box. The only weak point is the pump, which is easily packable. FI is OLD technology!! Every diesel engine in the world has it. It's easy to fix, clean, and diagnose and rarely fails. I have NEVER read about a FI failure, never! I have read about pump failures, just like you read about much more common coil, condenser, spark plug and chain failure. It's cleaner, more efficient and over all better IMHO. People should not be affraid of FI! People talk about being able to fix everything in the middle of nowhere. In fact i used to think this way, until i started travelling and realised that packing absolutely everything was futile! Why?? The world is full of people, over 7 billion of them if i recall! If in the event you have a severe breakdown in the middle of nowhere, instead of packing with you absolutely everything including the kitchen sink in the unlikely event of using it, i would rather take the chance and deal with the problem when it arrives. There will always be someone around who can help. There will always be a truck or a car that can tow you, and the world is filled with cities with even more people who are capable to fix anything. There is always a way and an answer. Now i pack only my essential tools and spare parts that are absolutely show stoppers in the event of failure, thats it. Your best defence is learning how to use your resources, which the world is full of! |
+1 to that. The MZ gives me no hassle and if it does I have a whole spare carb that I could either fit as it is or strip off one of the six or seven bits that actually do more than hold it together. Same went for the Enfield although the AMAL was very poor construction wise. I dare say you can get bits for these anywhere in the world in three days. The Bonnevilles twin, diaphramed, linked, heated things on the otherhand would be well replaced with a simple pump and squirt set up (and will be once the small matter of about £5000 is sorted).
I had BMW R1100's and disliked only two things about the FI. One, It was pointlessly set up for a few extra HP or marginally flatter torque curve and so was no more efficient than carbs (41 mpg no matter how you rode them). Two, the loom started to wear at five-seven years old and the parts (Bosch relays etc.) weren't standard and off the shelf. Compared to the Triumph carbs it was no better or worse. Now the Tenere system (when they finally get the map right) looks promissing at 70 mpg. The hardware is 30 years old, but the bike software has IMHO only caught up in the last few years as the Euro regs are killing off carbs and they can't just sell a carbed bike to those of us who complained about surging and stalling etc. Andy |
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. Hello All, i would like to retract my suggestion of the Yamaha XT350 In its place I would go for the bigger, more reliable Africa Twin. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...8032010040.jpg It is heavier than the XT 350, but also has a lot more carry capacity. If you are going solo, then the Africa Twin, will be your excellent companion. You could probably load it with about 80 kg of baggage, and she would not complain. I have had both the XT 350, which was good, make no mistake. But now i have the Africa Twin, 750 Adventurer, I can say the AT is a more fuller and complete machine. 'vette |
I think almost everything has been said about the different bikes.
It ALL depends on what you want to do, and where you want to go. 1- light = better 2- simple = easy to repair anywhere 3- technology = more problems that nobody in the world can solve I had the same questions when I left 20 months ago. I long hesitated between a 250MZ with side car, and the bike I had for everyday. I chose to keep my bike and see what happens. So I went opposite the obove recommandations, but it does not prevent me from enjoying the trip: - A k100 RS is heavy, very heavy, and to put it back on its wheels is tough, very tough, particularly with the wheight of luggages (three 45 litres Givi paniers) - A k100 RS does not go off road that easily. BUT: - The engine is bullet proof - since I added a side car, I don't hesitate to go off road - You can't find parts, but you don't need parts (well, almost...). Now, we're two of us travelling, and the side car is kind of helpful... Regarding mecanic: I have a master in Philosophy, and was a philosophy teacher for few years. So you can imagine that using my hands was not part of the job requirements. But maintaining a bike is just about nuts, bolts, screws and sometimes more complicated stuff. But it is something you can easily lear, if you want to. Buy the bike, buy the technical manual, completely dismount the engine, try to put it back together (if possible, with all the components you took off the bike), and that's it! Do it three times, you'll know your engine. Good luck, and enjoy yourself! |
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