DR650 is a good choice. Not a perfect bike off the floor, but the accessories available is almost endless, including a range of bigger tanks from 16-30l, side cover protectors, footpeg lowering kits, carb jetting kits for more responsive power, suspension and more.

Added advantages include easy service and repair, longer service intervals (as opposed to CRF450 and the like), lower compression engine that'll run on the crappiest fuel etc. And very reliable. Air cooled means less things that break if you drop it.

There's a good reason why this bike is the most popular choice for outback riding

DR650 would be great ... only reason I didn't list it is that I don't believe you can buy one in Spain. In fact, they haven't been sold in UK or EU for like 12 - 15 years, AKAIK.

A few DR's may trickle into UK via Grey market, but rare.
Also, EU and UK do not get the KLR650 or XR650L. Yes, the DR650, KLR650 and XR650L are ALL still in production.

The UK do get some nice Yamahas that we DO NOT get in USA.

The DR650, KLR, XR650L are also sold in Australia, Canada, Ecuador and a few other countries RTW.
Single, Carb bikes can't make it past Euro 4 smog regs.

I agree - XT660Z is a very comfortable long-distance travel bike. I know people who have travelled around the world two up on one too.

I do not agree. The Rally-Raid kit for the CB500X was designed to match or exceed the performance of three key bikes: the F700GS, the XT660Z and the KLR650... As you are probably aware, I've owned both the XT660Z and helped develop the CB500X kit - and it is every bit as good as the XT off-road, and even nicer on the highway.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...wj7t2CS-XL.jpg

I'd say either are an excellent choice for the OP if they genuinely want to ride long distance, and also carry a passenger.

Jenny x

Well, that solves that....thanks mollydog...shows how much I know. I didnt even think about that fact that a motocross bike would not have a a frame that I could build a luggage system around. As for the "lightning", I have no idea what that all means but it sounds like another good reason to avoid the idea of making a motorcross bike street legal.

And thanks Jenny for weighing in on the 500x rally kit.

So Im thinking maybe, as suggested, it is a good idea to look into finding an older street legal dual sport in Spain. I checked around and there are indeed some decent looking options of mid-weight dual sport bikes here in Spain. It seems you can find them here up until about 2008 models, that must be when some EU laws squashed them.

For example, an XT600:
https://goo.gl/SA9Ra6

Here is an XT660:
https://goo.gl/Hdj4jq

And a Suzuki DR650:
https://goo.gl/vifgGr
A DRZ400:
https://goo.gl/Ly1rv1

A KTM 450 EXE
https://goo.gl/QN6utk

I already rode that 40 year old enfield through 20 countries which was great, and I still have it for putzing around, but for this bike I want something more reliable :wink3: I had in my mind to get something no older than a few years. But I suppose even if a bike is 12 years old or so...if I can find one with under 15 or 10 thousand kilometers on the ticker, it should serve me well eh? And hopefully not too hard to find parts for them?

So what do you guys think out of the models I linked to above? Im not even sure all of them have a subframe I could use to make a luggage system. Basically if there is an aftermarket rear luggage rack that can fit on it that is all I need to work off of.

I guess the downside of these dualsports is limited range (small tanks), limited oil capacity (frequent changes)...and as people have pointed out, seat comfort, which I think I can rectify to some extent.

As for budget, I have a 2015 Triumph Scrambler I will sell, I imagine I will get about 7500€ for it. So more than enough for these options.

Hi momo - I think the reason people have suggested something in the 650cc class is because you say you'd like to travel two-up, and any of the 450cc 'class' dual-sport bikes tend to be designed for solo riders, or very occasional pillion use (ie. a short lift into town or back from a pub/restaurant), not day-in and day-out touring - as there isn't the space and/or associated comfort typically, unless you go for a physically larger bike.

If you don't want to go for something like the twin-cylinder CB500X (which is only 471cc btw. and punches well above it's weight in that regard), and stick with a single-cylinder dual-sport design - then of the bikes you list above, I think the DRZ400 is going to be your best option. Plenty of people have travelled all over the world on those - they are reliable, and have far more 'street' style maintenance schedules (4000 mile oil changes as I recall), plus there is a huge aftermarket for them if you want/need a larger tank, more comfortable seat, luggage racks and engine guards etc.

I have a number of friends who use these as 'travel enduros' around Europe, and they swear by them - they are also fully street legal (if you by the S or SM version), and even the E model can be registered for the road in most European countries.

I know [some] people bemoan the lack of a 6th gear for higher speed cruising at lower revs, but to be honest the stock gearing is good for 70+mph if needs be, and most backroad and off-road touring is done at a far lower average speed.

If it were me, I'd buy a clean DRZ400SM model (slightly lower suspension, but with the USD fork from the RMZ range, and 17" wheels) and re-lace the front hub with a 19" rim. That way you'd get a 10" travel bike with 17" rear and 19" front wheels that can take a whole range of dual-sport tyres, with improved road-manners over a dedicated 18/21" wheel/tyre combo. Both the S and SM models also come with pillion foot-pegs of course.

I'd fit a larger aftermarket tank (IMS or similar), and probably look at a more comfortable seat (or at least a replacement foam and cover); and if carrying a passenger then a rack for luggage - otherwise, just a Giant Loop bag over the rear of the seat.

And 'crack on' as they say!

Hope that gives you something to go on...

Jenny x

ps. Looking at your potential budget, before you make your mind up on a single though, do check out my recent ride-report on the Rally-Raid CB500X here - it really is an excellent all-terrain travel machine.

Wow, this is great info, thanks so much for this this Jenny. So I went back and carefully read the adventure-motorcycling.com review on the CB500X and your ride report, which were both very encouraging. I also checked out the RRO website and looked at the options. I definitely see the benefit of the twin. As you pointed out will be more comfortable with a pillion, smoother on the highway, and although im not hungry for it... its always nice to have a bit more power when needed. Im finding some good looking used ones here under 10000km in the 4400€ price range. As for add ons, Im not the type to tear up too much track and push a machine just for sport and fun so I imagine I would be fine with the RR suspension kit 1 (im also only 1.73m so wouldn't be too keen on the extra 2 inches of added height). Im not even sure I could justify the tubeless tire kit. But would be curious to hear which of the RRP upgrades you would consider a "necessity" considering my needs.

Anyways, yes, I think I will keep this as an option.

But I was also sold a bit on what you had to say about the DRZ400. I found this thread which seems to add credence to the fact that you can ride one of those fairly comfortably at 70mph speeds. DRZ400 on the highway | Adventure Rider

And I can pick one up here in good condition with abou 7k km on it for just under 3900€. With all the money leftover I could modify the hell out of it and make it a pretty badass little machine. New gearing for starters, and your idea for the tires makes great sense.

Its a whole hell of a lot lighter than the CB. (146 vs 196).

Anyways...I think I've narrowed it down some at least. Thanks again everyone for the input. Hopefully this thread will help someone else out in the future.

No problem - always happy to help!

I've always thought the DRZ (SM, with a 19" front wheel) would be an excellent travel enduro - the only thing that has stopped me buying one in the past is that I've always felt the styling was a bit gawky, coupled with my general love for Honda's too of course ;o)

I have some good friends who are currently on their way to Eastern Europe from the UK on theirs - they travel every summer all over Europe (they have the E models, street-registered in the UK) and love them. On the right tyres and with a slightly smaller rear sprocket (to up the gearing) they are plenty comfortable and fast enough on road, and for general unpaved trail riding.

With regard to the CB500X - you certainly don't need to go the whole hog and fit the longer travel LEVEL 2 suspension, although for more serious off-road use the extra travel and ground clearance give you a lot more margin of course, plus the 19" front wheel offers a wider range of tyres, and generally makes the bike feel very stable and secure on off-road surfaces.

That said, the LEVEL 1 set-up (that is upgraded front and rear suspension in standard-travel length) offers a significant improvement over the stock components while retaining the original seat-height. Lisa (in the photo below) basically just has the LEVEL 1 suspension, Rally-Raid engine guard and Barkbusters fitted, plus some decent all-terrain tyres of course (Continental TKC80s in this instance - which have a dedicated 17" front size available), fitted to her stock cast wheels and therefore can be run tubeless of course.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...HBvwkwJ-XL.jpg

We have ridden together all over the western USA, and it is surprising capable as long as you consider the lower ground clearance and pick your line through rougher terrain more carefully.

So that is certainly something to consider, especially if you do envisage riding some long highway miles to get to the trail regions you want to explore...

Jx

DRZ400 SM ... and Other Issues
 

Don't know the bike market in Spain or UK for the DRZ SM, but here in California SM's sell for LOT more money than do the DRZ400-S dual sport of same year/condition. Around $1000 more, depending.

So, if you do get the DRZ ... I'd go for the S model as you don't have to go through expense and complexity to fit a 19" front wheel. Watch out for screwing up geometry and handling going from 17" front to 19". I know it's been done ... I'm not a fan of going this route.

But overall, reading everything from Momo ... you gotta go with the Honda CB500X, Rally Raid kit or not ... it's still the BEST bike for what you're talking about doing.

The DRZ is a great bike if you really want to stick to OFF ROAD. If you intend to ride mostly ROADS (either dirt, gravel or pavement) I would most definitely go with the CB500X. Faster, smoother ... and nicer on highway. I've spent significant time on highway on the DRZ400S. NO BARGAIN! I'm sure the twin is better everywhere.

If you can afford it ... do ALL or SOME of the Rally Raid kit mods. Definitely do the conversion to TUBELESS. A must do, IMHO. Suspension too if you can afford it. Bash plate and Bark Busters too!

The Honda is going to be the better "All Rounder" vs. the Suzuki, IMHO. It will also last longer once 75K km down the road. Easy to maintain, good value for money. bier

Did you miss the posts about the Honda CB500X? It's only 50cc away ... also did you see the DRZ400S posts?

There aren't a lot of current 450 dual sport bikes other than the new $10,000 USD Husky and KTM's. Both would be terrible travel bikes. Been there, done that.
:thumbdown:

I have reservations about taking the CB500X offroad in its stock form at least.
I rented one for a week in Greece and tried some trails. The CB500X is just not an offroad bike: the balance is wrong, the bike just doesn't want to go where you want her to, brakes are too agressive and the rear alloy wheel on my bike was already dented. After 10 kms of trails I was exhausted like if I had carried the bike all the way.

I'm not making here any assumption on the adventure kits, the one I had was full stock. Just saying the CB500X is not much more of an offroad bike than my good old 4-cylinder and 200+kg GSX750.

Like the OP I was also on the look for a dual-sport in Europe. Ended changing my plans and got a DR650 in Canada that I'll ride South this year.
Before doing that I thought one bike which is worth considering for the use that the OP described is the SWM superdual 650.

Another 450 is the GP450 from CCM
 

It's an interesting machine and may be the reason that CCM, the UK bike manufacturer, is in no hurry to produce a bike as the successor to their GP450.
(the same 650 engine is in use by CCM but the company are selling into a completely different market - one with far more disposable income).

Despite the name, it's actually a 600 cc engine. It's also used by Portuguese manufacturer AJP on their PR7 model.

The SWM is really the closest thing to the DR650 that one can find in Europe. Has lots of cool features.
There are however also oddities:
- The DR is waaaay cheaper. Nearly half the price. The SWM is nearly 8000 euros (ready to ride).
- The SWM is still a bit too heavy. Dry weight is above 170 kg it seems.
- Ground clearance is limited.
- Exhaust pipes routed underneath the engine, reducing ground clearance even more. Why is that? The same brand's RS650 has the pipes running around the cylinder (same engine).
- Why 2 exhausts? Adds weight and complexity.
- Seat height 900 mm with a 19"/17" wheel combo and reduced clearance. Hmpf. Yes I'm short legged :D
- 5000 kms service intervals, which is OK but I wonder why we get the 'bad' things of modern engines (FI) and not the extended service interval common to newer bikes, usually 10000 kms.

And then there's ABS and fuel injection that I wouldn't want to have on such a bike (but here we can't blame SWM, there's no way to get around that with Euro regulations).

honda was listening to this and countless similar threads and will release next year crf 450L Adventure bier

well, we wish...

I have a DRZ 400. I'd say two up would be a huge strain on the engine, it was bad enough when I started out totally overloaded. Geared to S spec I would struggle to hit 70mph, whereas my partner on his CRF250 Rally can easily get up to 70mph and stay there.

I had the SM, but it had what I thought were E wheels but it turned out the rear was a 19'. I specifically changed it for an 18 as most tyres I could source for the 19 were soft MX tyres and not hard wearing overland dual sport tyres. Also avaliability of 17 and 19 inch tyres in Central and South Asia was very difficult as most bikes have 18 and 21 inch format.

I would worry that the ali rear subframe would not take the weight of a pillion, by front subframe bolt connecting to the main frame snapped twice, it is a weak point.