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What cheap 35+ year old bike would be the best?
I am unfortunate enough to live in Denmark. This is a nice enough place if you dont like motorcycles, but with a 180% tax on vehicles it is hell if you do.
shitty bikes from the 80's are the cheapest at around 3000 euro for a not very good one and dont even get me started on the never bikes. I prefer cheaper bikes for travelling but I simply can't get one in my country and if I have one that is registered in another country I am risking getting the state on my neck (they see it as tax fraud). I have different options ofcourse, but one of them is (as the title states) to get an old bike from another country and register it under the veteran motorcycle rules. Then the import tax is very low. But it has to be more than 35 years old. So can I get a good, fun, reliable and cheap bike that is that old and what am I looking at? Enfield bullet from the british isles? Old beemer from germany? Which models would be good? I am more for dirt roads than tarmac and high speed is not as important as versatility. Reliability or easy of repair is important. I am not a good mechanic, but I enjoy trying (-: I would prefer not to pay more than 2000Euro. |
I would try and find a R80 GS and rebuild it. Should go for ages. There is a heap of info on the Enfields, but aren't they meant to be very unreliable? Not sure.
I've seen piccies of a Kiwi (New Zealand) bloke on a fifties or so Norton Pantera who was a few months ahead of us. He needed a heap of oil for that one. Crap, I just read that the R80 is about 10 years to young. Might have to go to an older boxer. |
That's my vote too
An R80 GS was exactly what I was going to suggest as well. More on-road I'd probably go for an R60 or R75 /6 or /7. Spend some time learning the rather simple mechanics of it and you'll find it very reliable. There is more information on the internet about the "airhead" models than you can possibly absorb. Lots of helpful advice and information. I find parts to be readily available and surprisingly inexpensive. Besides, they will hold their value or only go up in time.
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well the R 80 GS's are very nice, but they are too young!
The R 60 / 5 is old enough but not alot of ground clearance. |
A late Triumph Bonneville can be a good steed. Especially if it's used every day, it can be quite reliable. The parts are available, in the UK at least. Go for a late 750. Earlier bikes are way too expensive but I don't think you'll find anything for 2000 euro's that doesn't need a rebuild. Otherwise you're looking at late 70's Jap bikes which are starting to get expensive now as people are reliving their youth on them. Good luck in your search I know the first time I met a Dane and found out about your crazy tax I nearly fell off my chair!
What about a Nimbus outfit? I met a load of them in Norway a few years ago and they looked great! |
Totally agree with all the above. I have a Hinkley Bonneville and that works great, so I assume the older ones do too. I am also an ex-Bullet owner and would say they will go anywhere so long as you have the time and a bike that's had certain tweeks. How about an XT? Too new/expensive? There used to be a lot floating round in France that could be bought up for decent prices.
My other suggestion would be an MZ. Very cheap to buy, simple and reliable with enough ground clearance and lightness to go pretty much anywhere.Parts are highly interchangeable, so can bring something like a late 70's ETZ 250 up to late 90's standards if you feel the need. My 301 cruises about 10mph/16 kph faster than the 500 Bullet did which means you don't feel like you'll end up as a hood ornament on a truck if you go on the motorway. The downside is you need stroke oil and will only get 50-60 mpg while the Bullets turn in 70+. The last UK MZRC mag has an article about a chap who toured South America on one. If you buy in the UK, don't forget you'll need to buy a headlamp glass and maybe a speedo. I'm pretty sure the Danish police won't like our left dip beams or MPH clocks. Andy |
35 years old = pre mid 1973.
Virtually everything from that period (in the UK at least) has either been rebuilt at least once or is rusting quietly in the corner. The rebuilt ones are now "fast appreciating old classics" with a whole industry dedicated to selling them / supplying parts for them at suitably inflated prices. Think of any 60's / 70's bike and you'll find a dedicated website somewhere where owners are complaining that parts you couldn't give away 15yrs ago now sell for national debt levels on ebay. I'm guessing that the rebuild from a pile of scrap option is not a route you want to go down. I think you'll struggle to get anything British that's pre 73, usable and under €2000. Perhaps stuff like BSA Bantams but to me that wouldn't count as usable! With BMW's I think you'll only have the /5's and certainly here they would be more than €2k I'd consider MZ's from the early 70's. They're still cheap. You could probably buy a whole fleet for your budget. Were Russian Urals available pre 73? It must be about that time I first came across them in the UK. Plenty of Japanese stuff around but most pre 73 is either a "project" (= you'll spend two years searching the world for parts and still be missing the left hand silencer) or you'll be buying someone else's finished project and priced accordingly. The latest UK VJMC magazine has plenty of cheap(ish) late 70's bikes but only a couple of pre 73ers under €2k (eg a 72 500/4 Honda -£1850 (ok, that's more than €2000 but it won't be soon!)). I would have thought you should have been able to find a reasonable 750/4 Honda in Germany though or if you can wait a year or two how about a 75 400/4 Honda. My last suggestion would be an XS1 /2 Yamaha 650. I bought a pretty good one a year or two back for less than €2000 and there is a good parts specialist near Kiel. |
R60/5
I would look hard for a BMW R60/5
These bikes run forever and most parts are still available. That can be a big problem with some older Japananese bikes. It's not smart to buy a cheap bike but having no parts for it. |
I have to agree with the choice of BMW. As you live in Denmark it should be easy enough to get any spares needed from Germany.
They are simple and reliable and most importantly made to last. |
The Bullet might be a good option for you. Don't know how strict your contries registration rules are, but you might even be able to retro-fit one of the new lean-burn engines into an older frame, giving you the frame number you need for tax reasons and the new, reliable engine you'd want for touring.
Even if you can't, there are absolutely loads of aftermarket goodies available for Bullets which will fit an older bike. Many of these are made in Europe and while there are plenty of performance enhancing mods available, there are also lots which are made to enhance reliability. If an enfield is looked after (you have to perform 'old style' maintenance on them, like regularly checking and adjusting points and tappets etc.) they are actually pretty reliable. There are a few bits and pieces of the Indian bikes that are a bit rubbish, true, but once these parts are replaced with european aftermarket stuff, the reliability of the bikes shoots up. You've said you are not much of a mechanic, but are learning. That's pretty much how I'd describe myself, and the Bullet is a great bike to learn on as it's so simple and everything is very easy to get at. I recently pulled my 2002 Bullet out of the garage after a three year lay up and after checking the points and giving the plug a quick clean, she fired up fourth kick! (And that's with three year old petrol in the tank!) On a general note: people have taken Bullets all over the world, so they are clearly capable of travelling long distances. Out riding mine on Saturday, for the first time in 3 years, I had a grin the size of Hampshire on my face. They are a gentle, slow bike but amazing fun all the same! Matt :) |
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Plus when you are done you can 'restore' the vehicle to showroom condition and sell it for a lot of cash.... What is the tax situation with a rebduild, i.e. buy a bike frame for very little money, declare that as the cost of the vehicle and then essentially the rest of it is a repair cost.... would this work? Sorry about the figures being in GBP but I am a lazy lazy man |
Try to check out old Guzzis. The beauty of these bikes is that it's easy and very cheap to find spare parts. They are built very sturdy, and are quite capable of looooong trips. From 1973 you can for instance find a good 850 T,
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gal...0%20T%2073.jpg or perhaps a 850 California http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gal...ornia%2075.jpg Personally I'd go for a 850 T which has the famous Tonti frame. They used it until way into the 90s. If ground clearance is an issue and you want a more off road capable bike, the 850 T is great if you want to build this one: http://www.motostefano.de/umbauten/850T5_enduro.jpg It's fairly straightforward to build one of those, using some Guzzi Quota parts to heighten it. The dry weight of this baby is barely 188 kgs, btw. Check out deals on mobile.de and ask the good people at the Danish Guzzi Club Moto Guzzi Klub Danmark for additional info. They are a really helpful bunch, I assure you. |
Only One !
I can't believe this is even a question!! The man says: "Pre-1974", and "I prefer dirt". So there is only one option:
http://www.oldrice.com/Bill_Bell_Honda_Cycle_10-77.jpg The early Honda XL's were the cream of the crop (in 4-strokes) back then and won many of the BAJA races. There are thousands still out there, and stuff STILL made for tricking them out. The one I drive, I bid $0.99 for on ebay AND GOT IT!! :D This is my sixth one and they have never let me down. My first, a '72 XL250, I boosted it up with some Ohlins, put on some 6-ply run-flat knobbies, and rode all over the Amazon. They are bullet-proof ! (Yes, I know about the kick starter idler gear!) :mchappy: Check out this website:http://http://www.oldrice.com/xl_page.htm |
XL250's rule!
Despite having one in the early 70's they're not that common in the UK at least (pre 73 ones that is)
Mine was one of the original grey motosporters and I remember it as being ok when I could get it started! Nothing beat it for cantankerousness until I bought my XR 600. I think you're better served with cheap old Jap stuff on your side of the pond. I have a friend in NJ who has collected just about every 70's bike he ever wanted for what is essentially pocket change - similar to your $0.99c XL |
Cheap
Ever consider leaving Denmark for a while? In the U.S.of A. where I live the are multitudes of bikes for far less than e2000. With todays exchange rate thats about $3000.00.I have bought 3 bikes this year and the most expensive was a Guzzi Convert with a sidecar for $2050.00. Also a DRZ 125 flattrack racer with a special frame for $1355.00. And finally a XV920 rh, 1983 vintage with 20,000 m iles on the clock for $750.00.
There are some Irish fellows I've met living here,one's a horse trainer the other a finish carpenter. They both own several bikes and though they get glazed looks in their eyes when speaking of home, they stay and enjoy the afordable life they have here. I know not everyone wants to live in the U.S.A. and there's not room for ereryone anyway ,but if you are smothered by the economics and can get away ,this is an option. |
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Pheeww, lots of replies. Thank you guys!
OK, well I found a BMW R 65 / 5 on motoscout 24 which is only 1700E. This seems too cheap maybe as the only other one I found is around 4000E. If I was to rebuild an Enfield with only newer parts, aside from the frame, it would have a higher taxation I belive, but not as much as if it had a new frame. Maybe an option, but could also end up as a another cardboard case project on ebay... Guzzis are very nice, but finding a cheap one (that works) is going to be really hard I think. MZ are an option and these can actually be had pretty cheap in Denmark. Even the old Nimbus'es go for 6,000+ euro. Too many people who restore them and sell them so buying one an doing it yourself is not really an option. Triumps and other brits are also an option, but I know very little about these bikes as they are not from my generation (little kid here was born in 1981) and the cheap ones will probably come in a cardbox and perhaps leave in it again. running out of battery on my laptop, will post more later back Hans: his idea is good enough so lets not make the thread political. We all know the ups and down of the US so please keep personal opinions out. About moving to the states: Man that is one amazing bike country! So many cheap bikes and so much space to use them on. Lots of friendsly people. Yes I would be tempted to move there and have even thought about it before. BUT as welcoming as people may be, homeland security, american politics and the lack of familiy and friends are things that keep me based in europe. I would love to move there for a year of two, but that is damn difficult these days... |
warning !
As far as I know there is no official R65/5.
It may be an R60/5 with a R65 engine but in that case be sure the work is done right and the papers are OK. Non matching numbers can give you big problems at foreign borders. |
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no problem man...
About the older hondas. I think the best ones are in the americas, we dont have a lot of the really cool ones over here from that period. Spare parts may be a problem for these older japs someone mentioned. hmm well the old BMW r 60 / 5 are nice machines for sure. I guess you could even bastardize it for offroad in the same way as the guzzi? some higher front forks and springs? the guzzis are beauties, but I simply dont think they come in my pricerange. unless I am looking for a cardboard box project the brit bikes seem to be out of price range. Also the extra hassel of headlights and speedo makes it less attractive. If I lived lon the isles I would definatly go for one though. |
Try a google serch of "sheck BMW" for some inspiration on old BMW dirt bikes.
BMW entered the ISDT along time before they officially sold the G/S range. There are lots of old modified BMW bikes like this in Germany, they are easy to work on. |
hmm I don't got too many results on "sheck bmw" but maybe I just need to be more persistent.
I found this BMW here MotoScout24 - Europas große Motorradbörse 3000E and then it will be a little less than 1000E to put plates on it Denmark. beautyfull bike. if it can take the beating I am going to give it it would be perfect. I beat my bikes alot, how would the beemer take it? would it be unfair to put such a nice old lady in the hands of me? hmm. Now I just need to get my KLR sold here in SA. Then I can fly straight to Germany and pick up the beemer. What a silly idea. I really like it. |
Guzzis.....expensive...?
Not in Italy they're not...! :mchappy:
http://www.moto.it/epoca/consulta03.asp?EID=1590433 Not really much good off road, and will probably need some TLC, but it's just to give you an idea. Take a look on the same website under "ricerca avanzata" or also on : Annunci moto usate e accessori usato gratis- Vendita Moto usate There are always some pre 1973 models within your price range, and plenty of bargains for some slightly more recent ones, there's a job lot of 4 working ex police V65s going right now, for 1500€ the lot! The export procedure from down here is quite simple, PM me if I can be of help. Ciao, Antonio. |
Hi Giacomo.
the best bargains are after 1973 and then the registration fee is too high. even for the ones from 1970 it is around 2000E to get it registered in denmark. Dont know why they are so much more expensive. maybe I will just have to get an MZ. just such a small bike for a big guy like me (2m tall) |
So, now I know why my cousin in Fredensborg rides an old triumph!
baswacky. |
yes that could be why (-:
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Why not import a rough therefore very cheap old enfield. then after you have had it registered and taxed rebuild it. No taxes to pay on the rebuild value, and by doing it yourself will be cheaper, plus you will be able to fix anythingthat might go wrong with it.
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several reason why this is not an option.
first of all, the danish tax system forsees this therefore you have to have it re-evaluated if you perform different kinds of rebuilds. They will taxate you accordingly. The thing is also that it has to pass a roadworthyness check BEFORE its value is decided. Otherwise everyone would be doing it... the next thing is that I don't really have the time or room for a project like that. I dont have a workshop because my life has been kinda nomadic for the last three years (travel-work-travel-work) and it probably will be for at least three more. My last option is to cheat and buy a bike in germany and have it registered there with the help of a german (maybe mr. aleman is up for it) then hide it somewhere until I am ready to go on my next trip. I am looking for a travelbike anyways, not a daily commuter. Maybe a nifty little gs 100 dakar mmm. Always wanted a bike that would fit my long legs. |
If you did not get any good results searching sheck BMW go over to Adventure Rider Motorcycle Forum and search Classic BMW ISDT photo .
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Schek works better as a search word
Schek bmw:-
schek bmw - Ask.com UK Web Search= |
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Yes Peter, everyone is doing it, and "emigrating" into some other part of the EU that suits their particular circumstances better. No wonder the political elite of the EU want to bring in tax harmonisation. I can't see your proposed ownership of a bike registered in, say, Germany and kept in Germany as a "tax cheat" - but I can understand if a particular Government, in this case the Danish, view it that way. Any Govn will aim to maximise the tax take from their own citizens as "quietly" as possible, so that they are re-elected. |
You might consider a Yamaha xs650 .
Cheap to buy . Very reliable engine , faster and more reliable than a BMW 650 . Two problem areas are ---handling [ new swingarm bushings and steering head taper rollers required] --- charging [ fit a permanent magnet alternator ] Then you will have a very reliable bike that will take you on dirt ROADS and just about anywhere else you want to go AND be able to keep up with modern traffic . Tuning parts and engine conversion kits are available to take the power from 55 hp [stock] to over 90 hp . Parts are readily available from specialist vendors . |
The problem is that you are only allowed to cheat if you are rich.
If you are rich you can afford a lawyer who can make thing "legal" that are not legal to people with less money. And since the rich people with expensive lawyers are hard to get to, the government hunts the easy targets instead, these being me on a german bike )-: If I get caught and they have resonable proof that I am evading registration I will be forced to pay registration + additional fees. For a year 2000 650cc bike this is around 7000euro + fees just to give an example. In england they dont hunt you as much because there simply isnt that much money to get since registration fees are much lower. Instead they look at insurance being up to date and so on. |
Tr1
Peter,
no one has mentioned these bikes yet: 1981 Yamaha TR 1 specifications and pictures Good and reliable with a fully enclosed chain. John |
Now we are getting somewhere.
nicest bike you can afford. |
I am going to have a look at the XS and TR 1 and report back. Thanks for the suggestions.
Mollydog: I am in Buenos Aires now on an american KLR 650 (-: But having an american bike in europe is just trouble. It is ahrd to get rid off and the licence plate is questionable in all countries because it does not have the "euro-look". I know it is possible and if I cant sell it down here it will be reality, but it is just not nearly as practical as having a bike that is registered in your own country. American bikes are the deal! I am pretty seriously thinking about picking up another for my russia trip next year, but what I need now is a euro touring bike. |
I would say that the older BMs are the best option. Guzzis are expensive as they are not as commonplace. Japenese bikes of the same era tend to have more serious faults such as cams running directly in aluminium cylinder heads, which is fine when it's working but spares tend to be model specificand often hard to get BMW parts are often interchangeable and many parts are common (or at least can be used on) models from 1960 to 1996.
In Africa we found that a lot of the dealers had stocks of service parts for the R75/6 and R80/7 models which were used by the police forces and a lot of these could be used or adapted for use on our 1989 R100GS |
good point magnon
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"""Japenese bikes of the same era tend to have more serious faults such as cams running directly in aluminium cylinder heads, which is fine when it's working but spares tend to be model specificand often hard to get """
XS 650 has SOHC running in bearings - absolute bombproof engine . Spares are easy . |
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Yamaha XS650. Great motor, easy to equip for long distance travel and very reliable. If I could find a clean one, I'd buy it in an instant.
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hehe, that was an interesting angle Max :rofl:
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If you want to get an idea of what's out there, go to google and run a search like "Yamaha XS650 site:craigslist.org" You can do it for whatever model tickles your fancy and all the ones being sold on craigslist in the US will pop up. |
yup, I know craigslist.org, very nice site.
Thing is that I am mostly looking for +35 year old bikes in europe, and I haven't really found any xs 650 that are old enough there. But will keep looking. |
It's just taken me ages to find this thread again.
I can't remember if you mentioned you were against importing an old bike from another country but browsing on ebay the other day, I found this 1973 Ducati Condor and decided to watch it to see how much it went for. The guy got one bid and it went for £900! See here: Duacti military Condor A350 motor bike on eBay, also, Other Motorcycles, Motorcycles Scooters, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 31-May-08 09:24:51 BST) BTW, you mentioned you tend to be hard on your bikes. I don't think hard riding and old bikes go together. Just a thought. Good luck. Indoors. |
thread is still alive then, woohoo.
You are right about that and maybe I will just have to cheat and get myself a german registered bike. I hope that noone feels that I am spamming the which bike forum, but I didnt start biking until 4 years ago and I dont really know alot about bike (or did at least) so I need to learn. What better way than to ask questions here? thanks to all for their info. |
Two years on....
I know its been two years since since there was any activity on this thread but I'm gonna fire away anyhow.
I have just completed 4 months of motorcycling on an Enfield in India with my girlfriend on the back. This is my only biking experience so far, but I'm totally hooked. The reason why I'm writing this is that I also live in Denmark, and would like to buy a bike and try some off-roading. Normally I'm happy to pay my taxes, whatever they are, but the danish vehicle registation taxes are pushing it a little in my opinion. They somehow don't take into account that some people actually use vehicles out of interest and not just out of necessity. I think it's unfair that people in Denmark should pay up to three times as much for their hobby, as people in Sweden or Germany do. Anyways, Peter(if your still using the Hubb from time to time) I'm just interested to know what you opted for in the end. Did you end up buying an old bike, og did you cheat the system?:cool4: I'm also considering buying a bike and registering it in Sweden. I know it's illegal, and if you get cought you are in trouble. But I'm not thinking of it as a daily commuter, but a fun bike so I won't be using it much on the road, at least not in Denmark. I know people that live in Denmark and have used foreign registered bikes and cars as daily commuters for years, yet they have not gotten into trouble. |
I would have to say any cb 250 350 or 750 honda would be ok. If you don't mind going just 45 miles per hour and like on road and off I would say the cheapest bike would be a honda ct90 or ct110 which is still in production after 40 years . the best 35 year old bikes aren't cheap anymore. honda Dream Sport 300," "CB92 Benly Super Sport," and "C100 Super Cub, are good bike from then. also any bmw that you can find is a good all round bike.
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