Ultimate fuel economy -- what bike?
 

Can forum members recommend bikes that deliver truly outstanding fuel economy? By outstanding, I mean upwards of 75mpg (on UK, or 'Imperial' gallons).

I have a specific trip in mind, in North America, and for my own peculiar reasons -- not just economy -- I am researching the possibility of doing a journey of several thousand miles at the absolute maximum practical fuel economy.

Sure, I know I could get a 50cc scooter to give me 100+ mpg, and maybe even a Honda C90 could get close to such figures -- but do forum members have other, more rational, more comfortable suggestions for bikes that might achieve similar levels of fuel economy?

The idea is at the earliest stage of planning, but the trip would involve as much as 10,000 miles, all on paved roads, but not necessarily with many l-o-n-g travel days, meaning a 200 mile day might be a long one, and that a machine comfortable at cruising at 50 or 55 mph (solo rider, not a huge amount of luggage) would do the job.

I would welcome any input from people with some practical knowledge to share.


ron

Royal Enfield 500 single. easy to maintain, cruise all day at 55 - 60 mph and give you 80 mpg easy.:thumbup1:
but then i'm biased. sure you hear horror stories. we have 2 electra 500's, cdi ignition, electric start, disc brakes...3000+ trouble free miles, cheap on fuel, tyres, tax and insurance. ok not for the mechanically inept, but even they can learn to fix 'em they are that simple.:innocent:

Hi Bikerz,

The Enfield was already in my thinking, though I don't know if they're readily available in North America. And then there is the worry about parts/service when the bikes are so rare. I see one of the posters here (Cameraman? Something like that) says his Yamaha Serow 250 gives great mileage and good reliability.

I know it seems like a daft question, but I have something rather daft in mind, and it does not require a bike capable of 800-mile days, and which means something like the Enfield or the Serow -- or even a comfortable scooter -- might be suitable.

Anyone else have ideas?

ron

I have`heard that the BMW F650 can get over 70 mpg (US gallons), that would be about 84 mpg Imperial gallons. And it will go freeway speeds with luggage.

Hello John,

Thanks for that. I am well aware that the F650 has a superb reputation among long-distance tourers, but I confess its ability to cruise on such a frugal amount of fuel had escaped me.

I know there must be an endless number of threads on F650 issues, and don't want to be a newby pain in the derriere by starting another one -- but is anyone here with experience of long-distance touring on the F650 able to back up the 70 mpg (US Gallons) that John has heard of?

And any other bike suggestions?

Thanks for this! The feedback and food for thought is much appreciated.


ron

I am with Bikerz on this one, get the new electra, whole world of difference to the 1950's bike . ( although it looks similar it is completely different).
they are available in USA at http://www.royalenfield.com/app/US/default.asp
If you really want high mpg try searching this site:= http://www.dieselbike.net/
the only recurring problem I have heard of is the clutch cable barrel at the handlebar lever end is sometimes is too tight and causes premature failure of the cable. just make sure the barrel is free in its hole and lubricate once a week.

2003 650
 

:scooter: Not certain about 75 but my 2003 650 Dakar provides consistent 65mpIg returns. Better in fact than my Suzuki DRZ400S. Though I doubt its as easy to work on as the Enfield?

Cheers Steve

At the Chain Gang site they have a forum
http://f650.com/phpBB2/
Do a search using "mpg"

Gas economy
 

If you are looking for a bike in the states that will run and run without being worked on look in to the Honda 250 rebel and the yamaha 250 virago. Both get in excess of 80 mpg US gallon. The serrow or XT225 as it is called here will also get 80 MPG US ridden briskly and who knows what when driven with economy in mind. These bikes should have service and parts availability across the US. Just what is your plan? You have me courious.

The Buell blast gets about 70 mpg US so that would be close if not meet your goal. While lots of people laugh at the blast it handles very well, can do freeway speed and is low maintance. They are inexpensive new and dirt cheap when used in exellant condition. They are a small bike and a bit underpowered off the shelf. Also the gas tank is small. They are worth a consideration IMHO.

On our last trip through the ME, we consistently got over 60 mpUSg. The high was 75mpg over 2 tanks with tail wind. We were 2-up (abate 2 light weight individuals) with gear.

Besides from 1 flat tire and being hit by a minibus, we got no problem from the bike.

Having said that, it seems that you're looking for an even more efficient bike. Perhaps one of the 250cc fuel misers would fit more.

[quote=mollydog]What "peculiar reasons" are at work here? Are you trying to invent a career for yourself? Set some or sort of economy "record"? Perhaps write a book on how to cross America for 5 pounds a day? Mooching off "kind hearted Americans" along the way?:rofl: Showing us how stupid we are driviing Ginormous SUVs while you putter along smugly on your 80 mpg scooter? So what's your point here?


You're not so far off, MollyDog -- though it would have nothing to do with pouring shame or scorn on anyone, nor with 'mooching' off of anybody. I like the idea of achieving a lot on a minimal amount of fuel, but not to the extent that I'd take you up on the kind offer of the wooden cross and the crown of thorns -- or elect to ride a Honda Super Cub, which might be the equivalent. I'm a writer and photographer and eternal wanderer, forever on the look-out for another daft adventure.

My thanks to everyone who is taking the time to offer their thoughts. The Buell Blast does look like a serious option, too. Which leaves me with, at present, a shortlist of the BMW F650, the Buell Blast, the Enfield 500, and the Yamaha Serow -- not counting possible scooters.

ron
www.ronmcmillan.com

I second the sugestion that you consider the Honda Rebel. Late 2004-05 models are available for around $2,000 U.S. and they are known to be quite reliable. Fuel economy can be in excess of 85 mpg, depending obviously on how you ride.

On my '05 f650gs I easily get 55-65 MPG (US) on interstates at speeds 70MPH (+). Drop it back under 70 MPH and it climbs to 65-75 MPG. Gives me around 225 (+-) per tank when the reserve light comes on. I'm 200lb and have Jessie Paniers on the back. As for comfort, I've done Baja top to bottom and back. Some off road. Very comfortable. Done several Iron Butt rides (1000+) miles in 24 hours. No problem. A 1200 GS it's not. There are many varibles that can add or substract a few MPG either way. The biggest varible is interstate vs back road travel. As someone noted, we scream when gas goes above $2.50 I did once, until I did an extended trip across Europe. We practically give our gas away. Go to WWW.F650.com and you'll see tons of info. www.advrider.com can give you a lot of trip bike specific info.

Fuel economy
 

Hi Chaps,

yep you were right T'was I with the XT250 Serow and I previously ran an F650GS & an R1200GS.

The Serow's covered 31,000km in 16month and has averaged around 85mpg.

My R1200GS used to give around 60mpg.

Mr F65GS gave around 68mpg but when treated gently could give nearer 80!

The Serow cruises all day (and everyday) at 95kph and is well within it's limits at this sort of speed. Flat out she manages 131kph but I wouldn't like to do that for long.

The R1200GS was the ultimate in long distance tourers for me but well to heavy for anything else.

The F650GS was had similar restictions to the R1200GS.

The Serow's a blast! You can tour (OK at a leisurly pace but that's my type of touring). You can trail easily and even get it out of bogs on your own. You can commute through heavy traffic (like I do daily).

Cheap & fun biking.

For serious mpg you can't beat diesel.
I seem to remember someone here in the UK producing a diesel powered bike some time ago. It used Enfield running gear and a single pot compressor (?) engine of around 350cc. In the region of 120 -150 mpg seemed to be what was reported. Googling Enfield Robin should get more info.

Thanks to all for the advice. That it differs according to where/who it comes from is all the more valuable, since I sometimes get more than one view on the same topic.

Patrick (MollyDog): Yes, I'm working on a freelance 'spec' idea, though at the moment it's very speculative -- you know how hard it is to get a pitch to the right person, eh? I don't want to get into too many specifics, because the 'idea' is still developing -- but it could involve 7000 to 8000 miles in different parts of the States, and doing it 'on the cheap' in terms of fuel economy would be a key element to the tale I anticipate telling.

Your point is well taken about long distances and sufficient comfort not to turn the trip into an agony endurance experience, which is why I lean towards getting the most out of a naturally-frugal 'mid-sized' motor like that of the F650GS or perhaps even the Suzuki 400 single (nobody has mentioned that -- is it not an option?), rather than suffering endless power shortages on an asthmatic Super Cub or a scooter.

I'm intrigued by the Alaska-Argentina story you mention, but cannot find a site at louisontheloose.com. Is the URL perhaps a little different? I've tried 'louise' and 'louisa' and 'luis', without any luck.


Cameraman: I have read elsewhere that the Serow, when taken out onto long-distance highways, is a misery because of lack of power. However, those comments could come from people who only measure fun by way of bhp; have you done any long highway journeys on your Serow, and if so, was it up to the task, or miserable? I mean, will it sit at 55 to 60 mph into a headwind without straining itself to death? Is it comfortable enough to do 200 to 300 miles a day in such conditions, or does it become cursed by its very upright seating position and dirt-oriented suspension? Also, do you or anyone else here know much about the 'new' 250 version, and however much it might have changed the bike, perhaps for the better?

GSing: I am very interested in your 650GS experiences, particularly the long-distance journeys you have done. Do you think there are ways that might further improve fuel economy on the 650GS? Would a small screen add to rider comfort and possibly reduce fuel consumption even a little, or would the extra weight just negate that benefit?

I'd be delighted to hear from any of you on this or other aspects of the notion. But with only a few postings on here, it seems I am limited as regards sending PMs -- so if anyone cares to make contact, please do so to the email address on my website.

Thanks again!


ron
www.ronmcmillan.com

tracked down Lois
 

With due thanks to the GoogleGod, I tracked down the 'on the loose' site that Patrick mentioned. Naturally, it involved the only spelling of the name that I hadn't yet tried.

It's well worth a look: www.loisontheloose.com

GSing: Thanks for the latest tips. I look forward to hearing from you. I hope your wife has a great trip to Hongkong -- a place I know very well, having lived there from 1988 to 1998!

ron

A note on the xt225. Louis stated that the max speed on the bike was 55mph. The freeways here are usually 65+ speed limit with most exceeding that. As for the4 blast it will do freeway speedand to be honest many people have said bad things about them, but most never rode one. When my Girlfriend got one I was quite doubtful, but she is samll and it was the bike that fit her best I was pleastntly surprised. I am well over 200 lbs and I have had it up to 80 mph. I have alo put on a diffrent pipe etc to let it breath and run better now, but stock it would do freeway speeds just not get there very fast. As for price they can be found for about $2000 with very few miles on them. The firat couple of years they were out they had a couple of issues that have been resolved. If you are a tall person tis will probably not be the bike for you since it is a small bike. Here is a link for some more info. Also the blast has a belt drive and hydrilic valves, that means no maint on these items. The only pain working on it is changing the transmission fluid. I will have my local dealer do it next time.

http://bcrider.com/buell.html

As for the ninja 250, another good option. I have never rode one, but hear good things about them.

thanks ekaphoto
 

John: thanks for that information. I will definitely do more research on the Buell Blast as a possible bike for my needs. Apart from anything, it would be somehow appropriate to do a big American trip on an American bike.

At the moment I'm leaning towards the Blast and the BMW F650GS, but the jury is still out on the new Serow, the 250cc model. Does anyone here have any experience of the updated Serow? Do the changes and the little bit of extra power make a difference?

ron

The Yamaha XT660 is fuel injected now, should give a similar mileage as a F650FI.

For diesel options surf to dieselkrad.tk

ultimate mpg
 

This is the ultimate for mpg, comes ready equipped with panniers..

http://www.f2motorcycles.ltd.uk/usedbikes.html

But you will need to learn to be patient and avoid the expressways :)

inclined to go for the F650GS at the moment
 

So far, the most convincing case seems to have been made for the BMW, though the jury might still be out on the Serow.

But the Buell Blast still interests me, at least partly because it is an American bike. I have made some enquiries around the UK for a contact name at Buell's Press/Media/PR division, but without success. Anyone got a name/email address that I might use to promote this nascent partly-formed notion?


ron

Fine, but if you read the Touratech brochure you need to virtually rebuild a BMW as well before it's fit for a RTW!
That was in defence of the Enfield, bt I didn't want to copy the whole post!

Hi Blueron,

well my Serow is the new 250 model and the maximum mileage I've done in a day (so far) is 546 miles.

The most comfortable cruise is around 95kph and she'll do this all day. OK I've been slowed down to 80kph when battling headwinds of around 90kph, so I'm sure she's got enough grunt for my needs.

The initial set up's very lean, so I released the main jet and installed it about 3 turns out. She still runs very lean so I plan to put a larger pilot jet in, which should aid in the low and mid range area's, as well as the top end.

Would an F650GS offer better long range comfort, well yes but can it go where the Serow can, NO WAY!!!!!!

It's horses for courses.

I've down sized from an R1200GS & R1200RT and don't miss either.

Good luck with your choice.


Regards

Reggie AKA The Cameraman

Economic bike!
 

Don't do it on a moped or a scooter. Get a cheap Vulcan Harrier 125 ( a nice Yamaha copy) or similar. Mine does over 100 mpg, 60mph comfortably (70mph with a tailwind). Its got a very comfortable seat and riding position. Starts first and every time, ultra reliable ( once you beef up the micky mouse electrics and treat every nut and bolt with locktite!) Its got an electric AND a kickstart, gas rear shox and a cracking little engine. ( I've not had another 125 pass me yet).
You can pick up a good one for £500 - £700 depending on year and condition. As an added bonus, it is not too small, I'm 5'9", the previous owner was 6'2", and it is a very cool looking bike.. far nicer looking than most 125 commuters.
Sorry, you can't have mine, I just sold it for more than I paid for it. I'm now having a different kind of fun on my Fazer 600.

If you are hell bent on doing your own daft gig, don't let the armchair pundits put you off. If you can walk there, you can cycle there. If you can cycle there, you can get there on a cycle with a motor in it. End of debate.
I'm planning UK to Vladivostok then onto South Korea on a couple of old R80/7 police bikes. Complete with full fairing and panniers. Its a case of riding to your own and the bikes capabilities, so I won't be jumping sand dunes and climbing over rocks. You'll do it on whatever you got it might just take a little longer.

Whatever you choose, have a good gig.
Cheers. Ian.

The lean burn enfield is a new modern bike, do not confuse it with the old 1949 model, for which most of teh tooling is worn out. the new engine and gearbox is built using the most modern machines available, The engine and gearbox are all new, although they are physically interchangeable with the old engine and albion gearbox.

you might want to read this, one riders account of an older style bike.

http://www.royalenfield.com/app/UK/trip.asp?sID=223

To Reggie and Ian
 

Thanks for the input -- much appreciated. I do appreciate and enjoy the notion that the tool for the job is not often the 'right' tool, but the one you or I like the look of.

To Ian: What's the plan in South Korea, or is Korea just a target at the end of your trip? I lived there for a while, and still have contacts there, so if you need some input, just ask. My contact details are all on my little website -- www.ronmcmillan.com

To Reggie: I sent you a PM here, but called you Ian by mistake. Sorry!


ron

Oh shoot
 

Sorry guys, it's late. I STILL got the names reversed in my latest post. I think.


ron

Well put Ian.

As I said earlier, it's all about the ride.

The BMW F650 would be the best choice but expensive. If you want a cheaper bike I'd go with a used Suz. GS500, Kaw. 500 or 250 ninja, Hon 250 Rebel. There are other choices like Hyosung GT250 but those are the bikes you'll have the easiest time finding. You can do it on bikes like the XT225 or a DR350 but it wouldn't be any fun in the "plain states" its not just a BHP thing, there's allot of distance between places and you might want to cover more then 200mi in South Dakota or Nebraska.

If making a statement is part of the trip doing it on a BMW F 650 like "every one else" I can´t se that statment will be a very strong one - just a thought. I'm not saying that the F 650 is bad just that it won´t make your effort stand out as spectacular.

Ian, that vulcan looks like a Yahama YBR 125 - saw a website with a guy from chile doing a RTW on a YBR 125.

in reply to your question(s)...!.
 

Yep the Vulcan Harrier is a chinese Yamaha YBR copy. Points to watch are the Ikky Electrics with only one 10 amp fuse and things falling off due to lack of locktite or similar. Once these issues are addressed, its not a bad little bike for the money although it was one of the more expensive Chinese copies but at least it does not arrive in bits in a crate with no registration. I just sold my 2 year old Harrier for more than I paid for it so its helped to fund another bike. ( What bike? Dunno yet..I already got a Fazer 600 and a BMW R80/7). Depends on the gig!

As already stated, I plan a liesurely ride to Vladivostok on my R80. Then ferry to Sokcho. After that, I'll just bum around Korea for a while till cash or time runs out. I used to teach English in Korea so plan to return to some of my old haunts down South in Chollonam Do ( Kwangju, Sunchon, Yosu etc.) Maybe drop in on the BMW dealership in Seoul. Maybe drop in on the Barons or Daegu riders. Visit a lot of temples and "National Treasures" Re-visit some charming Korean ladies, ride lots of stonking highways and get indigestion from eating too much Kimchi. ( not to mention the headache from drinking too much Soju) Yea! I know Soju too!!

Anecdote time:
Whenn aaah werre a lad......( Sorry it was the Hovis Butty..honest!) I rode various bikes with the British army in the 60's. The standard issue was the Triumph 500 twin. The army version was more or less the standard road bike with a solo saddle. Later we got BSA 350's which were identical to the civvy road bikes. We rode those bikes in ALL weathers and ALL conditions. Up mountains, across rivers, over cliffs ( the bike didn't survive that one) , rode them up and over stuff and even jumped them with the Signals Display team. If we got ordered to ride around the world on one, we would have packed a small pack and asked what direction?

Point is, if all you got is a clapped out Lambretta and you want to go, ... just go...the worst that can happen is you might have to walk back...so take some walking boots for the return trip. You don't need a new BMW, half a ton of stuff, 10 grands worth of Carnets, a second mortgage and three years off work to do it.
So long as you travel within your limitations and have done some planning you''ll get there..sooner or later.

Me,...I'm going thataway---------------->

Ian.

Economy
 

Almost forgot...If I was going to ride for endless miles on pavement ( American pavement, not OUR pavements..that would be illegal) I think that the experience would be enhanced greatly if the scoot could maintain a comfortable cruising speed. (min 70mph on A roads) Some of the smaller bikes are near their limit at that and it will get tiring after a while. Not to mention the wear and tear associated with "hammering" a bike for prolonged periods. I loved green-laning on my 125 ( 50 - 60 mph) but endless highways would need a different solution. Maybe the Royal Enfield or similar previously mentioned by others might be a good compromise between economy and practicality. I was under the impression that gas was as cheap in the States as the roads are long. Maybe it balances out.
What does anyone think about a Triumph Tiger for my next bike..??
(I'm thinking of rougher pastures for the future)

Have a good ride
Ian.

Hi
I run a 1981 Yamaha XT 500 and get approx. 71mpg. :thumbup1:

see http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...machines-10808

Been using it for more than 3.5yrs, 42500kms now.

Highway cruising @ 80-85 : it gives 40-42kms to a litre
Highway Cruising @ 100-105 : it gives 30-32 kms to a litre
Overall himalayan ride avg is 34-36kms to a litre.

223cc, 17bhp, single cylinder four stroke bike

Diesel
 

The future's diesel.

BMW has a 450:-)

Mollydog, not all diesel is that bad!

As I understand it, a lot of the new european diesal Car engines, incorporating particle fileters etc, (e.g. Peugeot and VW group) are a lot cleaner than petrol engines. However they are not available to most of the world due to the quality level of diesel required. They need low sulphur levels.

Currently this is only available in europe. I think it is less than 100ppm sulphur.
where as diesel in the US and australia has a commercial limit of 500ppm. The figures may be wrong but the orders of magnitude are roughly right.

Australia has introduced leglilation to lower the limit over the next few years. But i guess that won´t happen in the states due to the lack of low popularity of diesel. So you may never see the newest geneation diesels there.

As for motorbikes these measures are not practical, so i agree with you there. From reading about diesels I understood the biggest problem for motorbikes was the compressor needed to get the very high pressure´s needed for diesel injection. Large and heavy. Also most diesels use cast iron cylinder blocks. also very heavy. No idea what the diesel KLRs use.

As for supercharging, there is a crazy dutchbloke i think that has supercharged a BMW R1150GS. thinks he sells a kit. And also one that has NOS´d one. now stupidly quick. Can´t remember the website but very clever and interesting.

cheers
mike

Why not hydrogen? seems to work well in this little machine:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6333729.stm

Mollydog said
If Diesel was a viable technology for bikes the major OEM's would be pursueing
it. Far as I know they are not. Not only are Diesel engines dirty and more polluting than gasoline, they are naturally heavy...not an ideal feature on a motorcycle.

you might want to look here, I think it promises to be the first ( for me) viable diesel bike the EVA

DieselBike.net - Diesel Motorcycles

The diesel engined KLR's you guys are on about were the prototypes. An English firm, and if memory serves me right, a university took some KLR rolling chassis's and developed the first ever bike specific DERV engine to go in it. Think it was 600 / 650cc? Top speed was stated at 90mph for US army and 80mph for NATO, with performance very similar to that of a petrol single of the same cc. The NATO bikes were to be more fuel efficient so that they got the required 400 miles to a fuel tank. Last I read the first batch of bikes were going to be assessed by the US Marine Corps, that must have been over a year ago.
I remember the article because it also rumoured that Ducati had been playing with a V twin turbo diesel :eek3:

These bikes will be very 'clean' as they may probably have to meet the pending 'EURO III' emissions regs.
I can't wait to get my hands on one when the MOD starts getting rid of them :thumbup1:

The future's bright, the future's DERV.

Just found this link HDT - Hayes Diversified Technologies - Technology

The future's even brighter, the future's BIO DERV !!!!!!

Well, they do the 125cc C1, which is quite economical:
BMW World - C1

Not available in the US, but there are a few around.

For me, the wheels are to small for anything adventure travel though

Well you had better learn to wait. Only 22 protype machines were ordered, and there are no plans for production, these were just a batch of test bikes only. despite all the hype. see here
DieselBike.net :: View topic - I located and visited HDT and F1 Engineering

Bugger !!!!!!