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Two up...what to take
ALL,
Starting to think seriously about doing a RTW on a bike... Nothing is planned yet, nor the route, nor the time etc... I know that we (me and my wife) will ride on the same bike...that I want to be able to go off the paved roads... Now...I don't what bike to choose...But It seems to always come back to BMW... I've seen the KTM 950 Adventure, but hear it is not reliable and hard to find parts... I've seen the Aprilia Caponord, but haven't heard of anyone doing a RTW on it...and hear it is expensive to maintain,and same thing, hard to find parts... I don't know of any other bigger bikes that can manage 2up+gear. except for BMW. HELP???? cheers SAM |
I guess that will also depends on the fact that you live in the Usa, and that not all bikes are available here.
So that leads me to an "add-on" question to Sam's initial post: how many people do buy a bike outside of the us (through ebay for instance) and then import it? I'm pretty sure that for a 2 up trip starting in the Usa for instance and going North to Alsaka and then down to South America, there's plenty of good bikes here and thus no reason to import a bike, no? |
Most of the bad storyes behind the bikes are myths. Sure any bike would do it if you just WANT to do it! Purpose, comfort and practice is another story...
I had to make the same decision about a year ago. The only two-uping machines i considered were: Honda XRV 750 Africa Twin Honda Varadero Triumph Tiger Aprilia Caponord Suzuki V-Strom 1000 BMW R11xxGS Only two got into final due others just have too much plastic and too fragile. Those were Africa Twin and R-boxer GS. Both had it's cons and pros, went to R1100GS finally. Now if there's more than 10K kilometres behind me mostly two up 40% gravel 60% pavement i never regret going to GS and preparing it for Asian travel now. I really find the low-rpm power the boxer engine generates making it almost ideal two-upper and very hard to beat in "two-uping terms", altough it has some additional kilograms compared with it's competitors, but it has very low centre-of-weight compared with others due engine conception, other massive parts such as catalythic converter and shaft drive are the most lowest parts to the ground too. So the whole bike feels extremely light once you get it moving even a bit. I.e. I've sit on Caponord & Varadero and they feel top heavy compared with GS. But sure other people have different tastes and needs so i say the good old golden words: Do testdrive them all - two-up on various roads! Margus |
<font face="Arial Narrow">Here's another vote for the R1XXXGS. It's an all round wonderful bike. It'll easily carry two adults and luggage on good roads or tracks. Slowly if you want and very quickly if you have to. It's also a relatively quiet bike so it doesn't disturb the environment you're riding in.</font></p> <font face="Arial Narrow">My only criticism is that 1st gear is too tall so slow, twisty ascents when fully loaded can be tricky. I think the adventure has slightly different/better gearing.</font></p> |
to Jeronimo,
It is true that there is no need to import bikes from outside , first it is a major pain in the butt, then, there are not too many bikes outisde the us that could do a better job 2up. Africa twin is probably too small, and Yamaha teneree as well... I guess for these reason very few people in the US import bikes from outside, as we americans have a tendency to buy the biggest and toughthest even to go shopping..(i.e. too many Hummers and BMW1150 GS adventure in San Francisco Downtown) A trip from Alaska to south america sounds mighty good too! |
To Margus and Stephano,
Thanks for the advice guys... the only thing that worries me a bit is the sheer size of the BMW GS... I am 5.8 and about 165lbs. I am worried that , the bike the gear and the passenger, all that combined might be too much for a little guy like me... I have been riding for quite a few years, mostly sports bikes, except for a KTM 640 adventure and yamaha XT125. The KTM was hella tall and too small to manage 2up, which made it impossible to really use it... do you know anything about the earlier model of GS, like the R100GS and R80GS. reliability etc...Anyone? |
Actually the Africa Twin is a well-proven two-up bike, it works very well and is stone reliable. Especially for someone "5.8 and about 165lbs" and probably a smaller wife, I bet it's just fine.
As noted: Quote:
I'm 6'1 and 175 pounds and Susan is 5'4 and we did very well on an R80G/S - not nearly as big a bike as an R11xxGS, and with LESS horsepower than an F650 - and yet it was perfect for our rtw. What we North Americans find hard to understand is that NA is unique in the world in it's wide open streets and highways - there is far more room, wider lanes, wider and bigger everything, which makes big bikes not only easy to use, but also gives the feeling that they're "needed". Everywhere else, a big bike is a pain in the butt. There's lots of people going rtw two-up on Tenere's and F650's and loving it. If you're 6'3 and 250 pounds and your wife is big too, then an R11xxGS makes total sense anywhere, but otherwise for smaller people, especially under 5'10 or so, it LIMITS you to where you can go and costs more too. Don't get me wrong, the R11xxGS series is an awesome long distance touring bike and works far better than it's weight says it should - it's superbly engineered in the handling department, but that doesn't mean it's the perfect or only tool for the job. Find a bike that FITS you, take your passenger on the back for a good ride, and see if you're comfortable. If so, go for it. Just don't forget that all your luggage is almost equal to another passenger... I'd recommend the R1200GS over the R11xxGS for smaller people too, it's a lot lighter and lower. Re the KTM "too small to manage 2up" in what way? Power, or space for two on the seat? My bet is that it was space on the seat, not power - it has plenty. The bike was never designed for two-up travel, but with a much better seat they have been used two-up for rtw - there's even a few masochists I can think of that are riding stock seat two-up rtw. Anything can be used and will WORK - it's what's best for YOU that matters, and we all have different criteria, experience and preferences. Re earlier GS's, there's a huge amount of discussion on these versus the later bikes on the HUBB - use the search facility, browse the "Which bike" forum and you'll find tons of info. And try hard to get to the Colorado HU Travellers Meeting (or Mexico) for some serious discussion on long distance travel - see the meetings page, link on left. Hope that helps, ------------------ Grant Johnson Seek, and ye shall find. ------------------------ One world, Two wheels. www.HorizonsUnlimited.com |
Hi Sfajner
Elsewhere on the HUBB Grant or Susan Johnson mentions that your pillion needs a good seat or she will make the trip a living nightmare for you! BMW is arguably the manufacturer who does the most to keep the spousal bum happy. I ride a R1200GS (I’m a human skyscraper) – with a little adjustment to the front seat my fiancé can ride the bike as well… and she’s as tall as you. She prefers her perch on the back though… Africa (one of the more difficult continents) has been crossed with Vespas and Yamaha R1 Superbikes. It sounds as if you’ve already decided on BMW so there is no point in me trying to talk you into or out of a certain bike. I think your deciding factor should be comfort for your wife. My girl would never have agreed to marry me if she thought she’d have to spend holidays sitting on an anvil. P.S. don’t stick a large Stars-and-Stripes on your bike – everyone will pester you to perform tricks thinking you’re Evil Knievel… Either that or it will turn otherwise friendly people into belligerent vandals in certain countries. (This issue has already been discussed elsewhere on the HUBB) |
Even though I now run the risk that Grant might beat me up at the UK rally: I wouldn't buy an older GS. In Germany the for sale ads often have the statement: "Gearbox already rebuilt". It's their Achilles heel and hellishly complicated to repair.
To the rest of Grant's comment I can only say: Amen. Another thing: don't think you need a trail bike of some sort. Two up with luggage you aren't going "off-road" in the real sense of the word. Dirt roads, yes. If you like BMW and comfort try a K75 or K100. Or Even an F650. I did around India and on to Europe on a CX500 two-up towing a one-wheel trailer. (I don't recommend the latter.) I now have a Suzuki DR650SE, as does my other half. I have already regretted my choice and think I'd rather use something like a Honda NTV: reliable, not too heavy, low-end torque, shaft drive, tubeless tyres, low exhaust (important in my mind, cause trailie exhausts make your bike very wide). I'd probably put higher & wider handlebars on it to make it more manageable in rough stuff, and beef up the rear suspension. Voilà, my 2 c worth. ------------------ Salut from Southern France, the bikers' paradise, Peter. |
You might give some consideration to the Suzuki 650 V-strom. I've ridden but not owned one. At a claimed dry weight of 418 lb, it's 40 lb lighter than the 1000 V-strom and similar in weight to a BMW R100GS, which means it's a lot lighter than an oil head GS. At about $6650 msrp, it's a bargain, especially compared to BMW prices. The seat height is quite low for a dual sport so it might fit you well in that regard. I also found the stock seat quite comfortable, something I rarely do.
The 650 cc twin motor makes surprising power, providing considerably more acceleration than one of the 650 dual sport singles and I believe somewhat more than an air head BMW. It's also very smooth for a twin. After riding one, I would have no qualms about going two up on this bike despite it being only 650 cc. I found it to be a very comfortable bike. The after market is developing for this bike - Happy Trails now makes panniers and someone makes a robust skidplate (don't recall who), for example. The down side would be lack of ground clearance and suspension travel, at least compared to a dual sport single, and perhaps fuel injection, which adds complexity. However, I'm not sure ground clearance and travel are deficient compared to a BMW, (I'm not familiar with current BMW specs). Never the less, this bike isn't ideal for heavy duty off pavement riding but it will handle unpaved roads that are at least somewhat maintained quite well. I don't believe there is an ideal bike for a RTW trip, and taking a passenger certainly limits the selection somewhat. I have no experience with the Honda dual sport twins which aren't sold in the US - Africa Twin, Varadaro, Transalp. Perhaps one of these would be suitable for your purposes if you can find a low mileage one in good condition(occaisonally one turns up on ebay). I think a Bmw R80 or R100 GS would be a good choice (I've owned both), although R80 forks have been known to crack and I would start out with a new driveshaft in an R100 if doing a RTW. Although a single, a BMW F650 GS (which I've also owned) can be used for two up travel as it makes more power than a typical single. Acceleration (one up) seemed quite comparable to the air head GS's I previously owned. The complexity of fuel injection in this bike might be a downside (although most fuel injection systems seem to be proving very relible). The chassis seems adequately strong for two up travel with luggage. These are all just opinions, based on my experiences, about bikes I would consider if in your situation. Hope they are of some help. I'm considering a two up trip from Alaska to Argentina in 2006, and the 650 V-Strom currently heads my list of candidates for that trip. Of course, I may change my mind before then. Mike |
Offroad ability - forget the V-Strom!
1) a way too much plastic that can broke even on smaller falls 2) oil cooler is placed on the worst place imaginable (direct target for dirt, dust and flying free rocks coming from front wheel) 3) no spoked wheels 3) if really Strom implys, get 1000cc version for two uping - weight difference is hardly noticable while driving and second hand prices are on the same level as newer 650 here. If 650cc really considered, then i'd recommend F650GS or TransAlp (more plastic, less "enduro" [sure more "enduro" than Strom], cheaper than 650GS!) Electric Fuel Injected machines (EFI) too complicated? - It's never seen broken down even on minor amounts! I rather say carburateor machines are more hassle due need often tuning fuel mixture and the need to rejet them for higher altitudes. Seat height is no problem on any travel enduro - there's low aftermarket seats available for most of them or you can modify the stock seat your own. I've seen even about 160cm people riding enduros and even higher GS Adventures/KTM 950s with no problems. Boxer BMWs expensive than others? Well, here second hand ('94-'97) R1100GSes are at the same price class as second hand (post-'00) V-Stroms and newer ('97-02') Africa Twins or even newer TransAlps, cheaper than Varaderos and Capo Nords! Why to spend more money if you can have: - more low-rpm power that you really need for two uping - maintenance free shaft drive, - the easyest routine-maintainable engine conception (valve clearances adjustment is about 15 minute job even if you do it aside the road, throttle bodyes syncing is a breeze in few minutes, spark plugs off/on in few minutes) No need to hassle with plastics, details, frame and fuel tank in that lot of amounts to get access. - lower centre-of-gravity, less weight to "handle". - telelever front suspension, added comfort, stability and security in twisties and on hard braking (no "diving", or "waving" as with common 2-fork suspension making you lose control on critical situations on braking/accelerating wheather on direct road or in twisties). - paralevel rear suspension, rear wheel removal is the easyest and quickest possible procedure, it's blessing because it's quite often requirement to remove rear wheel to work on (tyre worns out quicker, punctures, spokes etc). - stickly out boxer cylinders with guards don't let the bike fall over the critical angle on often "slow-speed" falls on difficult offroad terrains - much easyer to get the heavy bike up again via my practice. - stock wide and comfort dual seat for rider and pillon - have the highest electrical power output: 700 Watts for your GPSes, heated clothing, additional lights, laptop/mobile phone charging options etc. - ABS availability for those who want it. - plus some other smaller BMW-standards as heated grips, extra 12V socket, all maitenance required tools and puncture repair kit are under the seat in standard etc that become handful on travelling. This is my vision why boxer BMW travel-enduros are still hard to match in two-uping terms. Newer R1150GS/ADV and R1200GS probably lose some ground in payed-price/what-you-get compared with others - they really are more expensive. The new R1200GS is still in "beta" production status and having some reliability issues (final drive and servo-ABS failures mostly), i'd not recommend buying it for high-mileage RTW at least next year's model if most of serious issues are "ironed out". Margus [This message has been edited by Margus (edited 13 May 2005).] |
First of all thanks to all of you for your replies.
Grant, I'd take it that you have quite good background information knowing who you are and what you have done...by the way, it is an amazing trip you have done, and i congratulate you on the quality of this web site. really! As far as BMW is concerned, just the size of the GSs (1100,1150) makes me uncomfortable. I was not sure that a 650 GS could handle all the weight of 2 people plus gear. I am happy to hear that! with regards to the R1200 GS, way, way, way, over my budget...did I say way over my budget? I was also looking into the K series and thought that it would be a suitable and affordable ride... I am just not to sure about how well it would do on a "dirt" road... The Katoom was a great bike, it was simply too tall for me, even with a lower seat, I already had problems managing the bike bymyself barely touching ground even after lowering the seat, and was really "scared" with someone in the back...Power , you re right, is plenty...All in all I loved the bike, i just wished it was a little eaier to handle for me, plus i had some problems with carbs and the fuel line melting on the exhaust...which I thought was a pretty Scary design flaw after i almost blew myself up in front of my house while warming up the bike... Luckystriker, thanks for the advice! Bedhist, Comment va la france en ce moment? Merci pour tes conseils! I am trying to stay away from true Trail bikes, i want to be somewhat comfortable and i want my wife to enjoy the trip as much as i will...and since she does not really want to ride her own bike , we gonna have to find the right one for the both of us... Liketoride2, thanks for the info on the Vstrom, I ll look into it a bit more... Margus, you got a point...know anything more on the K series? I am going to try to find out more, as you said beddhist, I am not gonna be jumping around on dirt roads with a passenger... thanks to all of you, please keep on giving me advice and opinion, the more i know the better prepared i' be... cheers Sam |
Thanks Sam!
Re K-bikes - nah, not for a rtw if you have the choice. Twins and singles are better for the purpose, generally working better "off-pavement". Check out R100GS, might be the ticket for you, or R1100GS - they can be found at prices similar, sometimes lower, than R100GS. (The old airheads are attaining "cult" status and priced accordingly) [This message has been edited by Grant Johnson (edited 26 May 2005).] |
Don't worry Beddhist, you're safe - I do try to make it clear that I'm not "married" to airheads - the one I have I rode because at the time there was nothing BETTER for the job - but that was 1986. I would NOT buy an R80G/S today and take it around the world two-up.
I MIGHT take the one I HAVE around again, but I wouldn't start from scratch now. There's much better out there NOW. I DO like the airheads - I'm very familiar with them, they've worked well for me since I started riding them in 1981, and I like being able to fix anything on them myself at the side of the road. The background that matters is that I was a mechanic in my early years, so fully understand the flaws and how to deal with them - in other words, for ME they are a 100% known quantity, therefore a solid choice. However, for someone else, I don't normally recommend them unless other factors say they're the best for that person. Newer bikes - ANY of them - are far more reliable and will definitely cause less grief. BUT if they break they can be harder to fix - what matters is that the really hard stuff to fix - electronics and fuel injection - VERY rarely fails. The stuff that does fail is the same as on an airhead - frames, saddlebag mounts, shocks etc. hope that clarifies my personal thinking a little... ------------------ Grant Johnson Seek, and ye shall find. ------------------------ One world, Two wheels. www.HorizonsUnlimited.com |
thanks again Grant...
i'll look into the r100 and Gs1100...the the earlier GS seem to be affordable from what i have seen and they seem to be a bit lower too... cheers sam |
Grant, I was only joking...
With regards to Ks: I have a K100RT and it runs rings around my R75/5 off tarmac. When the R hits deep gravel it tries to throw me off. I have taken the K on a 4x4 road in NZ where you wouldn't take a car. No sweat, but without pillion. Would be doable with, but not fun. Gravel no problem, it just seems to stabilise itself after a slide. With the R I was facing death. A /5 is no GS, of course... Tappets are adjusted with shims, but I never had to adjust any in several 10000km. The engine is practically maintenance-free, apart from oil, filter and the very occasional plug change. To me the K is the best BMW has ever built. If you do decide on an R80 or R100, have the gearbox bearings replaced by an expert before leaving. It can't be repaired on the side of the road. The final drive can't be repaired at all, so have it thoroughly checked. On mine the nut holding the pinion gear assembly together came loose. Apparently, this happened on later models, too. I found out by good chance and fixed it before it caused any damage. Otherwise, you won't notice anything until it fails. This is said to be spectacular, sometimes... ------------------ Salut from Southern France, the bikers' paradise, Peter. |
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Sam:
Check these guys webpage: http://www.cemacsolutions.com/photo_album.0.html.0.html It is only starting but they are doing a 2up on a 650 beemer, maybe that could help MoroCycler |
have a look at the honda 650 transalp. I think there good, same reliable NTV engine, not so bad off road if you have some crash bars and not bad 2 up with luggage. Their price is good too.
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Sam, here are websites with a great deal of info on two of the bikes that have been discussed above:
For the F650Gs - www.f650.com For the V-Strom - www.stromtrooper.com I'm sure a google search would turn up other websites devoted to these bikes. There are, of course, many websites for other BMW models also, but I'm not familier with them. Doing research for a new bike purchase is tough, isn't it - but, someone has to do it!! ;o) Have fun and good luck. Mike |
Hi Sam,
My wife and I are travelling two up on a 2005 F650GS Dakar. I guess we are about 320KG fully loaded (incl of bike) with us on it, maybe a little more. It has a max loaded weight of 380KG so plenty of load capacity. We have taken it offroad a lot so far on extremely rough roads and it copes well. Also the 650 has all the power you will ever need without the weight. By the sounds of it an 1100GS is too big without being loaded up. I am 185 5´11 and the 650 two up is all I want to deal with. I tried the 1100 GS unloaded in the BMW shop and it is far heavier than the 650 fully loaded. Also the new 650 Dakar has teh petrol tank under the seat so very low centre of gravity. Check out my website and you will see more information. We have just started the site so it is a bit bare bones now but some information there a lot more to come over the next couple of weeks. http://www.cemacsolutions.com Currently in Mazatlan heading south. Cheers Geoff ------------------ In mexico heading south to central and south america until Jan 06 |
Given the choice I'd still pick my 1150 over a 650 but I have to agree the F650 is well worth considering. We rode from Jordan to the UK with an 1150 and a 650 and the smaller bike did just as well as the bigger one.
It's much easier to handle in terms of weight and is more "fun" to ride too. |
Thanks to all of you!
On on my way to BMW dealer in Sf to check out both bikes! Long talk this morning with my better half and we are starting planning seriously... i feel more comfortable hearing that people have and are doing it on a F650...sounds like a more manageable bike for my size... I used to own a sv650 and power was plenty enough.... Alos I am thinking that If we are two up offroaduing really is going to be kind of difficult, if not avoided... WE are planning on going from SF to south America, then to Africa, Asia , indonesia and finaly Australia and New Zeland... How much off road is there really? since the K sounds so reliable , it sounds tempting...But on the other hand I would love to be abnle to go where ever I feel like going...you know the feeling I am sure... Thanks again...Keep posting... On my way to BMW... Cheers Sam |
Quote:
Gold Wings, Harleys, scooters and hypersport bikes have done RTW - it's all in choosing your battles and being aware of who you are and your skills and your bike and your load, including passenger or not. A passenger DOES mean you will usually not want to do the worst roads, and you will usually choose the easier route. You will STILL have a fabulous time, enjoy a huge range of adventures and countries and people - it will just be a different trip from a 23 year old guy riding solo on a KTM 640 Adventure with full knobby tires. Ride what YOU are comfortable with, enjoy riding, and your passenger is happy with. Light is good, simple is good. ------------------ Grant Johnson Seek, and ye shall find. ------------------------ One world, Two wheels. www.HorizonsUnlimited.com |
Grant = Wisdom Guru! you gonna here a lot about me...I am gonna be asking tones of questions!
Just came back from SF BMW... The 650 Dakar Looks like the perfect tool!I did not remember it being this big...good surprise...and i sure can find a used one for a lot less than 10 Grand! Off course the Sales man showed me the R1200GS! Damn, it looks the shit! it is just about as light as the 650! If it was not for the 17 Grand out the door price tag...it would be very tempting! No Gs 1100 to see or try...guess people here want only the latest and greatest... All things considered, although there is quite a lot more to consider, the Dakar is on top of my list, plus it is a Rotax engine, known for their reliability...right? I will cruise around the sites that Moro, Mike and Geoff gave me... Geoff, it looks like you will be a great resource for me if I go with the Dakar! and who knows maybe we'll meet down the road... good luck on your trip! with all that said I am off for today... Keep posting! Cheers Sam |
Yeah, probably any model newer than the old R80/100GS is in most cases the better choice. The old GS was designed in the late seventies which is nearly 30 years ago, but there is no black box and other fuzzy electronics or fancy fuel injection to trouble you.
None the less it still is much appreciated by many bikers, myself included ;-) The main advantage is the simple and (fairly) reliable construction. But as Bedhist states correctly the gearbox is a critical business. Mine was shot at 38000 Kms. Main bearings. The trouble here was that BMW originally had secured the bearing with a lock washer(?) but on later models (mine is a 1993 model) just glued it. The positive side of the repairs was that I had the chance to fit a shorter 1st and a longer 5th gear plus a ceramic clutch. All in all I spent a small fortune to make a decent bike out of the R80GS. After the gearbox I fitted a dual ignition, had pistons & conrods balanced, improved the suspension and had a more comfortable seat made. Now it nearly behaves like a japanese bike.... For my liking the choice is between the Africa Twin and the old GS. The AT is a very good and very reliable bike with the minor disadvantage that the servicing is a pain in the a*** having to disassemble half the bike. And the centre of gravity is much higher than of the GS. But both bikes have sufficient power even at low revs and are quite comfortable on long trips. The best invention was the kickstarter on the old GS. Cheers, Hans |
Well, no one ever mentions a Harley Sportster. I am 5'7" 157 lbs. wife is 5'1" 112 lbs. BMW GS was just too much bike for me. Drove my '86 Sporty to the Panama border from the US- it had about 100,000 miles,never rebuilt. Single carb, shocks (Progressives) cheap and available from 11" to 15 1/2", no plastic, can alter drive ratios easily if using a chain and sprockets, worldwide aftermarket parts shippers, low end torque, mostly steel so easy to weld on brackets,etc. Bought 7 gal. tanks new for only $153. No lightweight, but not top heavy. I have a klr 650 and it is much more awkward for me to manuver. Wheel sizes are odd but dual sport tires are made for them (hard to get probably outside US). Buy a used one (Evo only) for $3500-$4000, beat to death and sell it for what you paid-or more.
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Just a couple of comments on this thread. I am currently in the Balkans riding east to Australia and I had very similar questions regarding a suitable two up bike prior to beginning our trip.
Erika and I are travelling two-up on a 1989 Transalp and its working pretty well so far. I am 165 lbs and Erika is about 115 lbs. The Transalp was one of the lightest bikes I could find that was capable of two up travel. It works for us because we both are small and lighweight people. But one important thing, even with a light bike, with your passenger and all your gear the bike will be really, really heavy. Don't expect to do much off road under these conditions, smooth gravel or smooth dirt roads excepted. Even negotiating the pavement in cities where you have steep and narrow streets, cobblestones, etc will be enough of a challenge. Don't forget that the safety of your passenger will be at the very top of your priorities. Regardless of which bike you choose, you should also plan on upgrading the suspension for your loads and riding conditions, it makes a huge difference, believe me. Our fully loaded Transalp can blast down the potholed roads easily with the upgraded suspension. One thing I really wish I had was anti-lock brakes, we both took a tumble on an "invisible" patch of gravel a few days ago on a downhill switchback and this would have been prevented by anti-lock brakes. It caught me completely off guard as the road looked clear, but fortunately we were ok, protected by quality riding gear. For this reason, I wish we had the BMW F650 with anti-lock brakes at that time. But the Transalp is bulletproof for reliability, so I am glad I have it for that reason. Best thing I can recommend is to ride the bikes mentioned above with your passenger on the back and see which one feels best for you. You will probably "bond" with one bike more than the others. Good luck. ------------------ Dave www.mototrekker.com |
Hi Sfajner
The F650 does indeed have a Rotax engine. That same engine is used in competition quad-bikes with great success. Cagiva apparently also had a share in its development for BMW (don’t know how true that is – internet rumours). A little known British engine that’s been tinkered with by a struggling Italian manufacturer for a German multinational sounds like a bad idea – and yet it all turned out surprisingly well. The Dakar is the way to go – it thumps out more ergs than the standard ‘funduro’ and the gear ratio produces a bit more grunt whilst loosing only marginal top-end speed. Take care of your passenger first, followed closely by the chain… it can be a pain… but it’s not in vain... especially in the pouring… - STOP IT! P.S. Get the bike that your heart is set on – you will be blind to its faults and loudly praise it’s successes and have a great time! |
All,
Been looking seriously now for a couple of weeks...Unfortunately haven't had a chance to test ride anything...Damn dealers without test bikes piss me off! I have been looking at the Suzuki V-Strom DL1000 and 650...Been debating on these too...Espacially comparing the cost of the BMW... Martin, the Harley sounds like a fun idea...I 'll stay away from it though...but thanks for the "offer"... there seem to be a lot of people happy with the all around capability of the Stroms... I could buy two for the price of one BMW...and the maintenance cost and spare parts on Beemers are a lot higher... Anyone here have experience with the Strom? I know they are not great off roaders, but two up anyway, as many said it is going to be pretty light... I am tempted by the DL 1000 as i am used to ride Liter sports bikes (currently Aprilia RSV 1000)...But worry a bit about the weight...although I sat on one and even with a pillon behind it felt quite light... Anyone with exoperience on these? reliability and such... Margus, I know you were considering one for a while...what did you end up choosing? keep posting Friends! |
Sam,
1100GS and 1000Strom both are good bikes, but a bit different purpose. Strom is more street oriented (better looks, lot of plastics, alloy wheels, nasty place for oilcooler). On the shop i sat on the Strom first for few minutes, it felt good, then sit on the GS, it felt better, then siting back to Strom it felt quite ILL! Maybe additionally installed 35mm bar risers on GS had some effect, but for my size 182cm, 75kg, that wider seat just meld into one with my backside, legs were positioned perfect and those wide bars gave very secure and comfty feeling on the first impression. Now to testride them: The GS is one wide solid metal piece between the legs (sticy boxer cylinders) and Strom feels like riding on big plastic horse (the very wide tank area). On higher near-to-redline rpms the japanese 1000cc engine really starts to fly compared with "farting" GS 1100cc. But revving your dual purpose bike is pointless in every day use, the GS "pulls" you considerably better on low than Strom. I say the GS gives you more relaxed dynamics - less gear changes due low-rpm character and engine braking is more powerful too, i.e. i hardly use brakes on twisty roads - just learn how to play with throttle and that beasty farting boxer does all the work. While Strom feels like really sporty city-enduro - engine begs for more revving, lot of gearchanges accelerating&decelerating lot of braking, for me - it felt a bit too exhausting character, for some others tastes, it may be better... My Strom experience was quite brief, it didn't take long until i was fully sure it's not for my type, but i noted few other important things too: Strom feels "harder" to jump one to another side on fast twisties, while GS feels like bicycle-light to jump over the axle in quickly chaniging corners (low centre of gravity? or telelever effect?) and braking response of GS is exceptional due telelever and ABS cooperation which makes me quite a traffic maniac on many situations - you can push them to maximum on every situation if you like and the front end never dives. Price - i considered 1100GS, not the newer 1150GS, which is considerably more pricy. The only difference between them is front fairing and the gearbox, the few horsepower difference is hardly noticeble even for more experienced GS riders. I'd go for low mileage later '97-'99 R1100GS if the GS reckons and not much money to spend, it's the most "ironed-out" oilhead GS out there currently. As for not getting testdrive the 1100GS on your area - do long testdrive the 1150GS on your local dealer then, as mentioned before - the difference is only the looks and gearbox, 1150 has 6 gears (1100 has 5), 6-th is longer. The 1150 will pretty precisely give you the same thing you'll get from 1100. Stroms - i'd go preferrably on later Stroms, due first ones had hydraulic cluch issues and recalls as i've read from Strom user forums. On Stroms, check out: www.stromtrooper.com/forum On GSes: www.ukgser.com/forums Looks like you're leaping into 750+cc engines? If so, then also testdrive Honda Africa Twin and Triumph Tiger, which are competentive two-uping travel enduros too (Varadero and Capo Nord go pretty into the same class as Strom for me - more street orientation). As what was my decision, i was looking for: 1) has to be proven reliability, flexible, comfortible and preferred bike by RTW two-uping people 2) some offroad ability 3) robust 4) bit soulful-different engine and looks character not making it boring to drive after years owning it 5) easy to maintain 6) extras options ... others Only two bikes were on the line in final - GS and Africa Twin, almost fifty/fifty, all other "plastic road-pieces" were left out of game quite quickly. Africa Twin was more cheap and solid proven package, nothing special but as a typical Honda - hard to go wrong with it and it and can leave you pococurante. The GS had all i'd ever need, but was a bit more expensive (just wanted the later model of 1100), it leaves nobody pococurante, whether it's the bike you'll love or hate. What i DO regret, is i didn't get a chance to testdrive the Triumph Tiger, so don't make that mistake. Try them all, twoup and most of all - do long testdrives! Margus [This message has been edited by Margus (edited 25 May 2005).] |
Margus,
Thanks for the lenghy reply! I sat on a GS1100 and I could barely bring it up from the side stand! I am only 1,74m, so the overall height of the Beemer makes it hard for me to manage...the weight too seems a lot heavier compared to the strom... Unfortunately, no africa twin or Teneree here in the US...Otherwise these would be on top of my list ... The DL1000 seems plasticky, and cheaply built, espacially after riding quality built bikes like the triumph, and the aprilia...but it is also cheap...ya can't get a diamond ring for the price of zirconia... To me comparing the Strom and the GS would be like comparing a Range Rover and a Suzuki Vitara...the only reason why we compare the bikes is because they are more affordable ... Anyway...the GS looks fantastic, I here only good things about it and it makes me want one so much...I am very skeptic about their true reliability and the cost of maintenance and parts and insurance etc... Basically I am concerned about budget overtime... Yes, my aprilia is better built and more reliable than my SV 650 but, come to change a part, or do maintenance and the price are sky rocketing for the arpilia...same thing for insurance... I want to stay away from that on a RTW...especially with my very limited budget... but I 'd love to hear someone doing a RTW on a Strom...Anyone? Heard too many bad things about the tiger...although I love the looks and the engine performance, I am staying away from the bike, too many issues to my taste...and very few dealers around the globe to manage the issues(i.e. surging, EFI problems, etc...) Thanks for your words of wisdom...I am still looking/researching/loosing sleep over which bike...guess the test rides will fulfill my sleepless nights! Cheers Sam |
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Margus |
Thanks again Margus!
Thanks to all of you! I am off to try some bikes...I will be back on other forums to pound you guys with questions! Cheers Sam |
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On the subject of positve features it seems a little off that the cylinders sticking out and preventing the bike from falling all the way flat is considered such an up.
The 1st time I raced a Ducati twin in Michagan the Mad Dr. Burke got a great start and when I came to the spot where he fell I was treated to the sight of an airhead piroetting around the left head.Pretty cool but it would have been better to make the corner. The head and cylinders of an air cooled bike are cover with delicate fins, for cooling not propping the bike up.Sure you could add bars to take the damage but you can do that with any bike. ------------------ ride,smile,repeat as nessasary |
Hey, Luckystriker, you should do your homework!
Rotax is not and never was a little known English manufacturer. Rotax is located in a small town in Upper Austria. Cagiva also was not involved in the development of the BMW F650 engine. The Aprilia Pegaso 650 was the bike (together with the BMW F 650 Funduro) that got the original Rotax 650 as its power plant. But none of the two was really involved into the initial development of the 650 single. In the case of the Aprilia it was the original and really ingenious Rotax ConCam five valve engine whilst BMW insisted on using their own four valve head on the rump and barrel of the Rotax plant. (Probably to create a visible separation to the quite similar italian competitor). The BMW / Rotax engine was further (slightly) developed while the Funduro was in production (Drive chain sprocket instead of the lousy circlip) and got further modified for the GS / DAKAR. The Pegaso and F 650 Funduro did not only share some of their engine components but also their production facilities as both came from the Aprilia factory in Noale / Italy. Only with the introduction of the 650GS the production of the BMW single went back to Berlin Spandau. While the Funduro was available many people in Europe joked about the tank emblem being the only thing from BMW on the whole bike. (Aprilia frame, Rotax engine, Showa suspension, Brembo brakes...) |
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