I would consider the Qingqi 125 enduro--I know the Qingqi 200 enduro is actually the Suzuki DR200se (Qingqi is the OEM for Suzuki's DR200's engine and frame), so if the 125 version is also the OEM for the Suzuki DR125 (if there is such a bike), you are so there! Heck, for price, you would probably be better off on the Qingqi 200

What about a CCM RL-125? Not bad for just over a thousand UK pounds.
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5...trocr40pz0.png

Here is the Qingqi enduro in 125cc

Jinan Qingqi Motorcycle Co.,Ltd

and the 200cc

Jinan Qingqi Motorcycle Co.,Ltd

and the way cool motard in 200

Jinan Qingqi Motorcycle Co.,Ltd

Well I made my trip to the bike shop today, first time I've been in one since I was about 20 - what a find, I could spend hours in there, I'm really beginning to see the appeal now, not only do you get the freedom of the open road, but you get a never ending supply of gadgets and doodads to try and possibly buy.

Anyway, back to the bikes, started with the CG125 as they had a secondhand in stock and I've ridden them in the past, very nice, but I did feel a bit cramped - a bit like a frog on a stick, all arms and legs everywhere. Tried the Van Van, which was new and felt much the same.

Then I moved onto the Varadero, which felt a very different machine, much more solid, bigger of course and much more of a bike to ride, not just one to get about on. there was none of the folded up feeling I got from the previous two, but my legs are long enough to reach the ground properly. I didn't get the unfolding feeling on the Vara when I got off. That said, it's a fair bit heavier and I can imagine combined with the higher frame it'd be a bit more of a handful loaded for touring, but nothing compared to what some oof you lot have to put up with.

This afternoon, I'm off to a different bike shop who stock the Derbi which I'm quite drawn to as it seems to have a lot of the Varadero's riding benefits, but not the Honda price. Mind you, you get what you pay for and perhaps that price equates to better reliability, something it seems hard to test on a short ride. I'll just have to see if I can spot a load of broken down Derbis in the back of the shop.

At the moment I don't see myself moving up from a 125 even after the test (I'm emigrating to Finland fairly soon, and the riding season's too short for me to justify the expense - my girlfriend tells me). Mind you she's raving about a 125 Sachs Madass "scooter" she's seen, but I think perhaps not.

http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/galle...125%202005.jpg

Then again it is kinda cool.

Interesting look--but no place for luggage of any sort; other than a backback

To ride I can't say there was much of a difference, the riding position seems to be pretty much the same, but I did find it slightly more comfortable at the lights on the plain Terra, the Adventure had me reaching for the ground a tiny bit (I've only got little legs). That said it didn't feel like I'd be doing a Ewan and ending up underneath it.

Compared to the Varadero? Well the Honda felt more solid and a little better built, but it is almost €1000/£800 more expensive, and I can't say it felt that much better. Throw in the fact that the Vara would need aftermarket panniers/top box etc which are also more expensive that the Derbi's boxes and I reckon the Terra/Terra Adventure pair are the ones for me. I was almost ready to put down my cash for the Adventure + boxes and then the dealer pointed out that they'd also fit on the Terra and that the GPS mount was available too.

Sorry this has turned into a bit of a mini-test, and I've still not actually chosen anything. Thanks for the suggestions, and if anyone wants to pitch in with anymore. If not watch this space to see which one I chose (And it won't be the Sachs)

Interesting reading, Alex. Yeah, keep it up. With fuel prices going up daily, we'll all be on 125s soon and you'll have got there before us.

I think you've sussed out the Derbi and the Honda pretty well and it's a tough job to weigh up all the pros and cons but why are you buying new? Isn't there a used market in your area? A 1-2 yr old Varadero would probably represent best value.

This has been a good thread.. A real reason to have a specific CC ( legislation) and sensible road tests. Note though if you are tippy toeing on teh flat, stopping on a camber can leave you 'legless'. I will be interested to hear what you settle on.... I qyuite like teh cg125, but I am biased as it is a copy of teh old Triumph cub :)

Hi Alex.
Sorry to rain on your parade but I'd be very surprised if you can legally ride a 125 in France on a UK license. If you trade your UK car license for a French one - no problem, but on a UK license I believe you are only entitled to ride or drive in France or anywhere else in the EU what your UK full license entitles you to.
But as to a cheap 125 - I'd be happy with a Chinese Jinlun 125-11. Physically a large machine and good value for money.

Harleyrider - if you like the Jinlun (Texan?) I have a Hysoung Aquila 250 for sale in Sheffield, long story how I came to have it but it only has 3000 miles on the clock... am about to do a stage 1 tune to improve the engine characteristics, should be a great bike

The Pulse Adrenaline is supposed to be a good 125, all it would need is knobblies for overlanding (maybe strengthen rear subframe), looks cool too.

My personal recommendation would be spend 600 quid doing your DAS course while you still can (easily), then spend the change on a cheaper older bike (any capacity) - this way you can go anywhere on anything

I'm a bit more French now.
 

I checked this with the prefecture today and yes indeed a British person in France but retaining their British drivers' licence is allowed to ride a French registered 125cc bike in France because in France you just need a car licence to ride a 125cc (like the UK?). If you think of all the scooters for hire on the Med, this makes sense.

Mind you while I was there I thought "why am I keeping my British licence, when I'm resident here, just so that I can keep the licence for a tracked vehicle steered by its tracks?" and decided to swap, handed over my old licence and a couple of truly terrible passport photos, and went back an hour or so later (filled the time looking at helmets) and I'm now the proud possessor of a French driving licence (and so no legal worries there) and I've managed to retain the tracked vehicle category on my new licence too.

I wouldn't say I was on tip toes on either of the Derbis, just that on the Terra Adventure I was straight legged with most of my foot on the ground, and the Terra I was flat footed.

I think so far it looks like the plain Terra is in the lead, it's got a larger tank, it's cheaper than the Terra Adventure and of course it's got road tires as standard and I have no plans for long off-road travel. Throw in the fact that all the accessories are available for both anyway, and I slightly prefer the look, and it pips the Terra Adventure to the post.

As to why not a secondhand Vera? Yes, i could get a 2-3 year old for the price of the new Derbi, but there's a few reasons why I think the Derbi's a better option for me.

Firstly - distance. The nearest Honda dealer's 45kms away the nearest Derbi dealer's 22kms. The Honda dealer doesn't have any secondhand and the nearest on their network is 250kms from here.

Secondly - support. There are more Derbi/Piaggio dealers in France than Honda dealers.

Thirdly - accessories. Yes I know I can get panniers and racks for the Honda, but I'd have to source them and fit them, with the Derbi they're in the dealer's.

Fourthly - friendliness. Mr Honda-Dealer was a bit snobby with me, nice enough but I only got a short ride round the block and he was a bit sniffy when I mentioned the "Touring" word. Mr and Mrs Derbi-Dealer were very friendly, gave me loads of time for a test-ride, answered all my inane questions, gave me a coffee, said I'd get a discount on accessories (panniers, gloves, lids etc) if I bought them all at the same time, and will help me fit all the touring equipment.

Amazing. Every time you ask the authorities for help in France you get a different tale.
I have a friend who exchanged her UK car license for a French one just so she could ride her 125 in France without taking her test.
I have another friend who has been repeatedly told by the gendarmes to transfer his UK license to France so they can put points on it for speeding. He's sent it off 3 times now and each time it's been returned with a note to say he doesn't need to transfer it.
Others I know have transferred their licenses because the French one doesn't expire at age 70 like the UK ones.
Two people I know have managed to obtain HGV class 1 entitlement in the exchange without even asking for it.

The Aquila does look a nice bike. My wife had a Hyosung 125 before she passed her test. The Jinlun 125 we have is my daughters. It seems much more of a bike than the Hyosung we had earlier. We bought it new nearly 3 years ago for £900, when the same money would only have bought a clapped out and thrashed Suzuki Marauder or Honda Shadow. No contest. It's still going strong after 8,000k and my daughter still prefers it to the physically smaller 250 Virago she has been riding recently. I've replaced most of the fasteners as the originals were like cheese and I've just taken the clapped out chain off to replace it, but I'd trust it on a long trip if I had to.
Both wife and daughter long past their test now so not really looking for another small bike but thanks anyway.

Agreed

This is very true, I have imported three vehicles into France, each time was different :)
I have been asked bythe gendarmes to get a new 'EU' ( they mean credit card type with a photo) UK licence. I would do it, but, that means sending my old paper licence back which would leave me without a licence for a few weks.. Here in France you 'have' to have your licence with you. The Spanish cop who stopped me for driving across the garage forecourt without lights, was not entirely happy that I should have a french registered bike on a UK licence.

The general principle with licences is that if you have one of the newer EU type licence (green paper or the new credit card type) which you can recognise by the 12 stars on it and a whole bunch of languages, then you don't need to change it for the one of your new country of residence.

You'll notice on these that there are a bunch of categories A-Z on it. Each of these categories is in theory standardised across Europe so if your licence allows you to ride/drive that category in the country where you obtained it you can ride/drive the same in any other European state (subject to local variations). Unfortunately it's these variations which cause confusion.

Anyway I now have a nice French one - although they pointed out I didn't need to change it - which I feel is much better, mainly because if I lose it I won't have to go through the hassles of replacing it via the DVLA which took me weeks last time. Mind you it'll farly shortly become Finnish, which will no doubt cause much fun.

OLDBMW - You don't send your licence back to the DVLA(C?) the local authorities do it for you. In France you go to the prefecture and hand them your old licence and a couple of photos (here in the Cotes d'Armor you don't even have to pay). They then issue you with a "recipicé" on the spot (well a short wait) which shows any eager gendarmes that you are licenced. You'll then be issued with a full French licence after a number of hours/days/weeks (in my case an hour and a half as they weren't busy). At some later date they send your UK licence back to Swansea, who will then remove your UK licence from the system.

Beware though, if you've got any point on your UK licence which aren't actually marked on it, at this point the DVLA(C?) will contact the French authorities who will then be in touch with you sharpish. I've got a "friend" who traded her provisional UK licence for a full French one, and five onths later had the gendarmes on her doorstep who took away her French licence and considered prosecutuon for fraud.

And having a UK licence in France no longer has the benefits of any points not being put on your licence as the French and British are now both within the European notification network which means the points will find you.