To Africa Twin or not?
 

Hi

I'm planning a Mondo Enduro type tour but going to Vladivostok instead of Magadan due to the impossibility of transit out of Magadan since 2005, although still very much in the thought stage I intend to leave July 2009 , question is would you take an Africa twin? ... a RD04

In that my concern isn't the reliability, its not the maintenance as I know how to fix it having owned a bike with an identical engine, but the sheer weight of the bike, its said to be 210kilos dry and getting heavier as you read this as crash bars went on , and some more bits will tip the scales a tad more.....and I want to stick at least 30 kilos of equipment on it (mostly spares + tent + sleeping + cooking).

It is a collosal bike I put it next to my CBR and the CBR looks like a toy...

I'm thinking of changing it for a 1990s XT600 , or something based on the DR350/400...

My primary concern isn't dropping it as I have refined my technique to pick up any bike (I used to pick bikes up facing them now I do it with my back to the bike)..... but air shipping it as I need to get somehow from Vladivostok or S Korea to the US continent, and from South America over to South Africa, and kilos = £££££, with DR350s and XT600s being at least 60 kilos less weight than the Africa....

My alternative thought is to ship by ship the bike out to Korea, and ride the Russian bit backwards come back through the Stans , and go down to South Africa by land.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

My thought is this: You own the Africa Twin, it is a proven world tourer, you are familiar with it, why not ride the wheels off it? Sure there are lighter bikes out there. I think you'll find the hardest part of world touring is getting out of town :-). Once you're on the road you'll think any bike is brilliant. Sounds like a fun trip!

Cheers,
John

The XT600E seems a better bet than the Africa Twin idea. Spare parts for the big Africa Twin will be hard to source and there is more to go wrong with it. You need a basic bulletproof engine - a single air cooled XT is about as simple as it gets. The XT has plenty of power to haul you and your gear round the world and beyond.

The Africa Twin will perform better on tarmac but once the road runs out you will need a lighter more offroad orientated steed. The XT600 ticks all the boxes in this respect -

Completely trustworthy and about as straightforward as motorcycle engines get. The world may now have moved on with liquid-cooling, fuel injection and multi-valve systems, but for honest, trustworthy poke you could drive across deserts, I know which I’d take. The Yamaha XT600E is limited (to about 90mph) as a road bike, though…

Expect to pay about £1,800 for a low milage minter in the UK (private sale). This represents a GREAT deal and you won't find a better "bang for bucks" bike anywhere. You can still find good minters too. You will need to get a Acerbis tank and a good set of luggage. Use a Sheepskin on the O.E.M seat.

If I was intending to do this hardcore RTW on a smaller bike I would look at using a good Suzuki DRZ400. You will need to change narrow the "cheese Wire" seat and add a larger fuel tank though. This is a light little bike which produces about 32 HP - enough to haul you and your gear round the globe in reasonable comfort.

Other bikes worth looking at -

1. KTM 640R (costly)
2. YAMAHA XT660
3. Kawasaki KLR650
4. Honda XR650
5. BMW F650GS (costly)
6. Kawasaki KLE500 (some great deals in the UK for this little gem - £3,000 new).

Finally - Get yourself a copy of Chris Scott's excellently written "Adventure Motorcycling Handbook" it contains everything you need to know - ISBN: 978 1 873756 80 5 (£12.99).

I had the AT and I was driving it a lot off road, two times in the desert. It is extremely reliable very god off road for as long as there is no mud or sand dunes. But it is hardly to say that it is a "lot of fun" off road, it is more likely to say "it will get you there if you can drive it"

I changed for the old XTZ660 and it is much better off road. You can say that it is "a little fun off road".

So if I was planning for your trip and AT was in my garage, then I would probably go with it, but in the other case, if money was no question the KTM ADV640 1st choice and the new Tenere 660 my 2cnd choice.

If money is an issue, the old XTZ 660 has it all. It is Light, reliable, powerfull for a single, smooth for a single, it has wind protection, and it is very cheap.

hi thank you for your replies,

The thing is I've not had the Africa Twin long , I saw one fairly cheap and bought it 2 days later.. I can probably get rid of it for a bit more than I paid for it since I've cleaned her up a bit and fixed some of the issues on it. As well as added crash bars and such like.

I am pretty sure this bike will take me to the moon and back , TWICE, but the issue is one of shipping more than anything else as with the Africa it appears to cost such an insane amount of money being so big and heavy for shipping that it is out of the running.

Money is sort of an issue though as I have a maximum of £6000-9000 to spend for the entire trip (with 9 months max time) , and thus I can't go out there and buy an F800 BMW. Nor can I ship the Africa anywhere, which means out to Vladivostok and back (bit too hard core for me) and curl down in to Africa.....


I originally thought a heavy bike will be able to handle hefty luggage better than a small bike (with their weak subframes) as on any bike I decide to take I'll need to add fuel tanks , tools camping/cooking kit.

completely forgetting about the shipping issues!. But as the time draws near and as I read the HUBB more , it appears as if the Africa isn't that good a choice.


Thanks

Good luck in your prep

The XT is one of my favorites, but the Africa Twin is a good bike if you take care of the known faults. It’s probably more reliable then a most 15 year old XTs.

The cost of shipping is often based on the volume; will the XT-box be significant smaller?

If you are familiar with your AT then why not use it. It handles pretty well offroad, the bike is usually not the problem….
YouTube - How to handle a Africa Twin

Ha it is not without irony that I was thinking of reducing my luggage load to an absolute minimum ie a single 35 litre top box and a 10 litre tool box on the pillion seat to keep the weight down!.

Cool Vid AliBaba, here's the other ide of the coin....

YouTube - XRV in Action

I was going to add to this - I've shipped two bikes across the atlantic now, and there seems to be a ratio when volume takes over from weight or vs.vs. - certainly for air-frieght anyway..

While it was based on weight in both instances for me, it was stepped in bands - eg. under 200Kg, up to 300Kg etc. so (together with the weight of the crate itself) the price wasn't any different as both times the total shipment (inc. crate) was over 200Kg, but under 300Kg...

Have you got quotes from your proposed shippers yet? It might be worth asking what their weight bands are?

xxx

Yes, it’s possible to get stuck on the AT or it’s possible to drive it places where no one think it can make it. :devil2:
It’s all up to you, but personally I think it’s wrong to rule out the AT because of it offroad-capabilities. The bike is more then capable.
That said, I’m not a AT-fan.


I’ve only shipped a bike once, with Ethiopian Airlines. I had to pay for the highest of volumetric and “real” weight. When you ship a motorbike the volumetric weight will always be higher (at least with the factor EA used).
They also used bands on the volumetric weight and the price was the same between 1-2 square meters, so price was equal for almost all kind of bikes.

My impression is that this is handled different around the world, and you never know the real cost before you exit the airport but it’s worth trying to check it out.

Shippers charge on Volumetric weight. For each cubic metre they expect a certain weight. If you are equal or below that weight, they charge for the volume. If you exceed it you are charged on the weight.

I can't remember the exact forumla as its buried in a spreadsheet somewhere on a PC that is not working!! Its something like the dimensions in CM (HxWxL) divided by 6000 or something....

With the motorbike that we shipped plus stuff packed around it on all side we still were within the weight limit and so were charged for the space it took.
This translates as there is an optimum packing that you can do: you get the bike as small as you can by removing the front wheel, bars, forks (?) to make it as compact as possible, so you get as close to the weight per M3 as possible. Make any sense?

PS: just read the whole of Aliaba's thread and he covers it all, so my frantic typing before work is a bit obsolete!!

AT shipping
 

An AT will get you there (where ever 'there' is) but if it's offroad you'll certainly be tired! Road/dirt-road however they're a dream!

See our website (the presentation) for a picture of an Africa Twin being shipped back from Cape Town on volume - a great effort by my mate Dan.

Regards,
Ed

The Africa Twin is an absolutely HUGE beast! :eek3:

Honestly I had problems picking one off the ground with a mate to assist! Just think how difficult it would be loaded with luggage! I'm a former owner of a 1979 Suzuki GS850 (with a bloody awful Rickman FULL Fairing when bought) and a Laverda Jota so I know what a BIG bike is...

There is no way I would take this beast on a hardcore RTW trip for this reason. I'm not saying it won't do it but I am saying you have other far better options available to you...

Yes I know that the A.T was designed and widely used for the Dakar (in a straight line it's fine)...

If you intend to stick to tarmac then yes you can take the Africa Twin although parts WILL be hard to find and shipping costs expensive (compared to a single).

A adventure prepped XT6E would be my own no1 choice for the reasons I set out above - but mainly cost v performance. I totally dis-agree that the A.T engine is likely to be better than that of a 10 year old XT. The XT engine is simply legendary in terms of simpleness and utter reliability. The A.T engine is good, but it aint as good as a XT. Remember that you can easily find low milage mint 2004 XT's out there (£1,800) whereas A.T's will ALL be high milage and generally quite long in the tooth now...

Thanks guys - Ali and Warthog seem to have explained in more detail what I was trying to say... Basically hat it didn't make any (price) difference whether my crate was 200Kg or 300Kg, as long as the size was within the limits (which is was) - therefore, shipping an AT or an XT (or I imagine even a Serow) would cost the same if the dimensions of the crate are similar?

xxx

Well as far as picking up bikes... i offroad my 1100GS (240kg) and can pick it up with little issue so thats a relative point.
As far as capable.... here a brillant blog of a guy riding a At from London to Aussie via Capetown then up to the middle East, Russia, Mongolia... and now he's in S.E Asia. 96,000km... he knows a thing or 3 about an AT's abilities! and he seams to love it
THE HARD WAY HOME

:oops2:I thought I'd better add that the Africa Twin is a truly superb machine for what it was designed for. It's unfair of me to give it a good slating cos it has a truly fine pedigree and many hardcore RTW riders swear by it...

I will gladly concede it will kick the XT's arse on tarmac. This is the only place where an XT will struggle although it's quite happy plodding along all day at 60 MPH.

I guess I'm a bit biased for the XT idea...

Whatever you decide to do - Enjoy and above all STAY SAFE!
:mchappy:

" .... it only takes 200 meters of really nasty mud or rocks to ruin your whole day."

I agree... other factors to consider are how tired you are, how many times you've had to pick it up already, and also altitude plays a very big part which can often be underestimated... I can pick my Tenere up at sea level with a quick hoik! but try doing that after a long day, at 12,000ft... it's hard!

xxx

Right thanks for all your replies, after reading a bit of Chris Scott's book I am definately turned towards the Tenere,

My issues with single thumpers was that many people had ridden things like Honda Dominators that died at 65000 miles , but it seems not to be the case with the tenere. (quite ironically I was going to get a super tenere which is probably just as weak off road as the Africa)...

In that I had a thought in that, its like riding a big sports bike , in that you might not use all the power or the ability of the bike , but if you DO need it then you are going to be glad the power and ability is there....

I would hate to be riding along somewhere in Mongola see a muddy dirt track and think I wonder whats over there? , and think best not risk it as the Africa might get stuck.... and this sort of goes against the ethos of this trip ie to live a little to have some risk in your life.

But the Africa isn't going in the bin yet I'll probably use it as a replacement for my falling apart Bros 650 , (which influenced my choice in the Africa as they use the same engine).

Thanks for the advice folks. (ADV rider OTOH recommends IS 2:1 infavor of me taking the Africa twin).

Africa twin to South Korea
 

Hi I did the same trip UK to South Korea via Vlad, I did it with a mate. I had an xt he rode his day to day bike a honda Pan European. When we did the journey three years ago Chita to Khaborosk was an under construction road, unsealed for most of the way. It should be sealed now and is probably the only route for that section. The ferry to South Korea is a push up the loading ramp job, so weights not realy an issue. My friend continued on from Incheon to west coast USA on a Ro Ro ferry willhelm willmason????? or similar I am sure there are references on the site, again the size weight made no difference to cost. He then rode up to Alaska and back down and across Usa and shipped back by Ro Ro again to Southampton, no crates no stripping no removal of batteries or fluids etc.

Regards Jimmy

I personally am a huge AT fan (and ride one, so yes i am biased). Off road they are remarkable good.. yes you can get stuck but i have seen new and old Teneres get stuck in the same place, I also have an old XT600Z ('83). IMHO I would take the AT.. The AT is better off road then I am... yet still have a lot of fun on it. Neither bike fully loaded will be a "joy" off road. Any Bike is never the real issue when off road, it is the riders skill.. I have seen amazing things on all sorts of bikes.

After a day of riding the single (XT) vibrations are a lot more exhausting then the smoothness of the V-twin. And I can pick my AT up fully loaded as easily as i can my XT. Once loaded they are both pigs!

They are both top heavy, the AT takes less custom mods to make it a world eater (ignor all the stuff i have done), and there is a lot more after market stuff availble for the AT (at least then my '83 xt) . Gettting standard parts is not an issue for both the AT and XT, Both david silvers and wemoto will ship anywhere. The AT uses alot of "honda standard" parts that you can find most places, but once you get into the outback both are going to be an "order in jobby" anyway so what difference will it make.

The AT is heavey but you dont feel it when riding (loaded up you feel it, but that is true for my XT as well) the shipping band will make the shipping cost differnce between the AT and XT a non-issue...

You have the AT.. stick to it. It is a great bike and if i have to choose my XT or the AT .. the XT goes... Save your money on the devil you know (eg AT), anytime you buy a "new" bike you could get a lemon.. if you know the AT is good. then you are a head of the game...

just my 2 pence....

Thanks, I've made an enquiry to WW about this, the thing is I don't want to be riding on sealed roads all the way as I intend to go via the Zilov Gap and into Mongolia also where from LWR are muddy and unsealed,

The RTW trip is for some adventure, and if its via sealed roads all the way its hardly going to be more than a trip to Europe and I might as well just take my CBR, as said I might well not use any off roading ability but would rather have the choice to not use it than to not have any choice at all.

The Zilov gap isn't a gap anymore, it's a road now...

xxx

Hi,

I intend to go the same route to Vlad, then Oz via S. Korea or Japan starting July 2009 as a part of our RTW. We are going 2 up and there is no other option then AT for us (we are big fans of it btw). Below a simple map of the first stage of our journey:
Attachment 1856
If you need I have all the dimensions of a crated bike with the front wheel off.
Regards
Peter

You can get a RoRo ferry at Masan btw so no need to crate the bike , you do need to find something to do with the time though.

As said the issue is less shipping more riding the darned thing....I'm going to keep it another month elseif I'm going to try get an Yam TT600

I'd love a AT, but I wouldn't swap my 2003 XT600E for one. I've pounded up and down motorways, ridden dirt roads and no roads, totally overloaded it, crashed it(more than once!) and even been a bit slack on the servicing and it never lets me down. I genuinely wouldn't swap it for any other bike for overlanding in the developing world. What is more there are loads of accesories available for it due to its popularity as a adv-tourer. However, the only mods you reall 'need' are luggage, a bash plate and the big Acerbis tank. And you could get away without the latter two if you wanted.

Matt :)

Matt,

At last someone with a HUGE degree of common sense!

Yamaha XT6
"Once ridden forever smitten"! :clap:

On tarmac the Africa Twin beastie makes sense (comfort and vibration free) but when the tarmac runs out the smaller lighter more dirt capable XT kicks butt.

SIMPLE - If you want the best all-rounder then you know it's between a (very costly) BMW/KTM and a (cheap, simple and reliable) XT. NO CONTEST :D

at
 

Attachment 1879
two africa twins in the forests of rusia
me and Robbo (hard way home)
you can do everything on wich ever bike ,as you are determend enough

What about with 2up?
 

I am confusedly trawling through here and the Adventure Motorcycling Handbook trying to figure out what would be a good bike for going round Africa 2up. I would prefer a lighter bike too if possible and only want to go 'off road' when there is no 'on road' option. Something reliable and simple to repair seems wise and I don't really care what the top speed is as I have little intention of finding out! Would the advice above work or do I need something different for a 2up?

Two up will mean that you need a beefier chassis and suspension to cope with the weight of another person, plus those extra clothes and camping bits needed for an extra bod in the tent. It should also be relaitively powerful for the same reasons.

Generally, those two factors make for bigger heavier bikes.

We travelled 2-up on a R1150GS in 2006: it did very well, but South American terrain is probably, on the whole, more forgiving than African bush

Another popular option is simply travel on two identical bikes: half the load per bike and half the spares as they can go on either. Not always more expensive either...

PS: this is a bit of an old thread: you may want to start one afresh, giving as much detail as you can to help people make relevant suggestions

I've owned 3.... I've done a full engine rebuild on one and complete restoration (minus engine) on another...

I've also done some big trips on them..

In a nut shell:

They are very very reliable. They keep on chugging with regular oil changes/valve clearance inspections.

They have their weakness like all bikes. Swap the fuel pump and carry a spare reg/rect and you're ready to go. Also keep the chain loose and keep your choke plungers clean and greased up.

They ARE NOT easy to work on. They are fiddley and have lots of plastic etc. WAY more aukward than an XT600 (I've also owned 2) You have to displace the rads to check valves, remove the exhaust to take off the clutch plate etc etc. Your AT is spread out all over your garge just for a 12 month service ! Not well thought out IMOH.

200-250 fuel range, trip counter , proper bash plate and robust design is also in its favour.. It's very hard to break one !!


Negatives are that its VERY HEAVY and Top heavy at that. Its no fun loaded up and the suspension from stock is pretty crap. The brakes are also crap too for what IS essentially a road bike. You can take it offroad and I have, but it's no fun !!

The stock seat is an arse killer and it's not happy doing more than 80mph on the highway with standard gearing.

The AT's are also expensive. I just sold my 45,000 miles tatty one for £2500. I don't think they're worth that kind of money but they do have a cult following which keeps prices high. You will also potentially end up spending a load of cash getting it right for you.

Getting a low mileage one which hasnt been around the world can also be tricky. Those which havent been abused go for £3000 plus which for a 10 year old plus bike is rediculous.


The XT600E has crap suspension and brakes too but its way cheaper, simpler and lighter. Personally, i'd have a look at the XT660R or the DR650SE !

All the best, Ted


P.S. I will probably end up getting another one at some point ! :innocent:

We did a similar trip on a BMW R100GS which carried two of us plus 90kg of luggage for 30k miles around Africa. most of the 'off road' on route is just gravel and if we wanted to go anywhere truly off road (eg Fish River canyon) we'd take most of the luggage off the bike.

The bike is certainly simple and easy to work on with no unnecessary tech. but as with the AT has some weak points.

In my opinion most single cylinders are too cramped for long term two up riding.

The AT is a good option as well.

Size
 

Thanks guys. Truth is I am somewhat intimidated by these really big bikes being more of a scooter man in everyday life but it looks like I'll have to get over that! :scooter:

AT or big BMW100GS or Tenere seems to be the way to go but looking at ebay, they all seem to be very expensive. Is it possible to get something around £2k without having to go to Germany or join secret societies?