Small bike regrets?
 

I always hear that no one ever wishes that they would have brought a larger/heavier bike once on a RTW/long distance journey.


But has anyone actually taken a small bike and wished they'd gone bigger?

Just returned from Peru and crossed paths with about 6 travelers on big motos. I noticed most did not explore the dirt roads where the ruins and fun stuff are. In addition, I heard of the constant concern of tipping over and the difficulty to right the moto.

The only time I wished I had a bigger moto was on the PanAm Hwy in the head wind. Other than that, I am glad to have a 250cc moto. You stop more often, and therefore meet more people and see more things. Much easier to find parking for a small moto at night.

If you want to make miles, the bigger moto is better. It's more comfortable. It's better on the faster roads. If you have the inclination to go on rutted switchbacks and explore the back roads, then smaller is better. Even on a narrow, blacktop road; meeting a fast car or bus on a sharp and narrow mountain curve can force you in to the ditch (done that more than once), and a smaller moto is more nimble. It comes down to what your travel style is, where you like to ride, and the roads at your destination. No moto is perfect, so you have to make choices.

Do some travel on a small moto in Mexico or farther south and see how you do. Ride in to Copper Canyon; Urique, Bato, and take one of the canyon roads between them. Ride the blacktop libre roads farther south and visit the sights along the way. You'll answer your own question eventually.

Damn good summation of things LD. I've not travelled that far on small bikes but done enough to confirm what you're saying is true.

It really is a compromise and sometimes travelers aren't even sure WHAT sort of roads they are looking for and some change their mind once out there traveling ... some get out on rough off road and HATE IT!
Even on a small bike.

Others get too bored on fast highways and long for tiny back roads. There is no "Right Answer" in the end.

So, IMO, doing what LD mentions is good advice: Go down to Mexico or wherever on some shorter tours and see how you do. Go off road on your favorite big bike, now try it on a small bike. Now try a few days of highways at 70 mph.

Oddly enough, I just sold my brand new KTM Duke 690 which is actually a very small bike. It has "250 like" weight and dimensions with Big Bike power and FUN. It's not the off road version but is fine on easy dirt roads. It had everything.

But guess what? It just didn't work for me. Hard to explain why. :innocent:

On a tour of 4 days (I know, nothing for RTW guys!) The little KTM grew uncomfortable on any sort of faster highway. It was good on the twisty roads but the inevitable LONG highway run came along and ruined my day.

It somehow just did not fit me and has far less wind protection than my old DR650 ... which had NO wind shield ... but some how does not need one.

I loved the KTM's power and handling but just not a practical bike for travel.
A great Day Ride bike but not an ALL DAY, EVERYDAY bike.

But IMO, a nicely set up 250 would be nearly ideal for doing Peruvian Andes dirt back roads or Baja or the Salar de Uyuni. But if you had to ride the long coast road to Lima, that would be a drag on most 250's ... where a big GS or other big bike would make it easy. But try to lift the GS solo ... well, here we go, round and round on this endless debate. :smartass:

The smallest bike I travelled on was a DRZ400 from UK-Capetown. And it's not even that small.

MANY times I wished I had more power and more speed.

Smaller bikes generally top out around the 55-60mph for a comfrotable touring speed. Which for the most time, is just fine.

But when the road is long and almost never ending, 5-10mph more over a day adds up A LOT when you're trying to make progress. Overtaking can become perilous without the power to make it through and working the gearbox hard to make the most of your small engine can become tiresome too.

Having a small bike can also limit you to finding riding partners. On the road, you will meet many people. And most of them will have larger bikes and can move quickly. If you can't keep up, it makes it challenging to ride together without irritation.

A smaller bike is generally more uncomfortable too. Narrow seats, little wind protection and more 'buzzy'. Their suspension isn't made for luggage and their subframes can break. They can't handle luggage like a large bike. Their balance is thrown off. This can be all be addressed if you're willing to spend the time and money when prepping though.

You must also take into a account that 95% of the world seems to be paved. And 95% or more of any trip is generally on tarmac.

Unless you go off looking for trails and wildernesss, you might not find any.

Would you prefer to spend all day suffering on a small bike just so you can more comfortably handle a 2km sandy track to your campsite ??

It all really depends on your trip and if you're looking for offroad tracks. And also your physical size and capabilties.

that exactly what I think, the hard off-road part on longer trips is usually very short, unless you're riding Dakar Rally. In addition even on smaller bike you don't want to risk injury in wild places so your off-roading is very limited anyway. Making miles on small bikes is a pain in an arse and you have to make miles if you want to get somewhere eventually.

IMO, it's far better to get required skills to be able to handle big bikes in off-road condition with confidence. What you can do on dirtbike you can usually do on good adventure bike as well if you practice enough.
You won't be willing to risk much either way on long trips.

Metal horses for courses
 

.................. which is why some of us own multiple bikes that each has its uses.

Perhaps, eventually, the optimum will be the new generation of parallel twins with an engine capacity of about 700cc, such as the Yamaha and KTM that may come along any day soon :innocent:
("soon" a relative term in engineering and marketing).

I have made a couple of trips on a smaller bike, enjoyed them both and would use one again. I am currently in the US on an BMW 800 which is a good choice here but in other parts such as Southern Europe and Asia have found a Honda 125 to be a good way to travel and a step up from the bicycle I had used previously.

On shorter trips in specific areas I've enjoyed small bikes and (usually) not wished for a bigger bike. In Vietnam for a couple of weeks I rode a 250, which was a good size for me--aside from the seat, which was torturous. For scooting around in West Africa I've had everything from 125 to 650, with the former well-suited for little dirt tracks and the latter much preferable on major highways. Usually, both leave me dissatisfied at times, and when roads are hilly and clogged with belching trucks and buses I get really, really frustrated on a smaller bike. That's the answer to OP's query.

On a longer and more typical trip, where I'm racing the seasons to get to place with short summers and long winters or across large countries and continents, I'm happiest with a 650. Of course there are lots of places I can go only with great difficulty, and of course I don't like that. But it sure is nice to watch the miles scroll by on any sort of decently-paved highway. That was true even in Vietnam, when my little 250 prevented taking full advantage of the stretches of good roads when I really just wanted to get somewhere quickly.

Still waiting for the perfect compromise, with sufficient power, appropriate gearing, comfortable seating, generous luggage capacity, adequate handling and light weight. I'm not holding my breath.

Mark

.. twin.

The perfect compromise IMHO, solo or 2-up. Smoother and powerful (fast) enough on sealed roads. Can do off-road too .. even 2-up, with a little bit of struggling. Robust enough for luggage requirements for both rider and pillion. 650 twin .. all the way.
:thumbup1:

I don't regret taking a small (well 400cc) bike, but I do regret certain aspects of the choice. The problem is the majority of "small bikes" to choose from on this trip are dirt bikes, and dirt bikes tend to share some commonalities that can be really annoying when you're packing in the miles - they're tall, wobbly at speed, have the entirely wrong gearing, shitty maintenance schedules, and a torture device for a seat.

I get passed on the regular by guys with half the capacity I have, who are often incredulous that I'm so slow. I'm definitely going to change the gearing next time I change the sprockets but I suspect that's only a part of the problem.

There are days when I get stuck on a road that's WAY worse than I initially expected where I LOVE my bike, but there's also days where I wish I had gone with a cb500x or given the versys 300 more of a chance.

Cool, that formula works pretty well! So which one do you like best?

I know both Yam and KTM have 700 twins coming in. Can't say what the weights will be ... yet ... or the cost. I'd guess maybe $15K USD on the KTM 790, $12K on the T7.
bier

You must ride a Husky or a KTM? :mchappy:
You didn't say which 400cc "dirt bike" you're traveling on, so above is just a guess.

Some smaller bikes certainly are real dirt bikes, others simply dual sport bikes that need modification to suit touring. Some can be modified, some aren't worth the effort/cost. But as you say, the pay off is when things get nasty. But of course a two way street on that front.

Even my brand new 125cc Honda two stroke CRM rental got bogged down in nasty red clay mud in N. Thailand. Can't imagine something heavier.

Historically, one of the most popular 400cc "dirt bikes" is not really a dirt bike at all. Talking Suzuki's DRZ400S. (include DRZ400E which used to be sold in UK.) E model was Better dirt bike, less good travel bike than S model. (I owned the "E" model, never went beyond Baja and California, great dirt bike!)

Many have done extensive mods on the DRZ400S and done RTW travel. Wide seat, proper tires for road work, small screen. I found stock gearing on that DRZ-S was good for 85 mph measured. Not bad.

Most of the guys who rode the Suzuki's have sold them on and bought either Husky or KTM 350's or 500's EXC's.

They have their own set of problems ... like longevity. Those old DRZ's could easily rack up 30K to 40K miles ... the Austrians are usually in need of service by 15 to 20K miles. More compromises.

And the Euro bikes are SUPER tall, whereas the old DRZ is reasonable for most.
bier

I'm guessing you have signatures toggled to not show - his sig says he has a DRZ400.

Yeah sorry I have a DRZ400S. I've goten used to the fact that nobody in India has seen anything remotely like my bike so I've taken to calling it a "dirt bike" just because it makes more sense to most than trying to explain what a dual sport is.

I have a modified stock seat and a sheepskin (didn't want to pay to ship a Corbin from the US on top of the crazy high price) and a screen but it's still damn uncomfortable and even with a lowered seat very tall (I'm 5'7/170 - I'm female btw). Overall service interval is fine but it burns through oil very fast with the heat and sustained RPMs. With stock gearing and luggage I can't get it much past 60 MPH except with difficulty. (I have no performance mods) It doesn't help that most of India doesn't really have side roads in the sense that the bike would excel, so I'm mostly just been pounding the motorway for the last month.

No ... I'm sorry! I missed your sig! My mistake.
Sounds like a rough trip! Sadly, often non pro seat mods may not work ... and IMO, sheep skins are useless for LD comfort, even though Aussies and Kiwi's swear by them. Yea, Corbin is expensive ... but I can ride 10 hours on mine.
Stock seat was only good for an hour or so. Crippling!

Cheaper option would be a Seat Concepts Kit. Or find good foam and have your own built by a real seat maker in India.

A WIDE seat is key to comfort, IMO. That and high quality, firm foam that won't break down in a few months in high heat and wet.

Sounds like your DRZ has some serious issues. It shouldn't be using much oil and 60 mph should be a doodle if running well. I'm sure it's an Odd Ball Bike in India and I have NO ADVICE as to where or who you could take it to for sorting. Sorry. But I bet someone here could help!

All the guys I know who've done India have rented or bought bikes there as shipping in their own bike too costly and famous Indian bureaucracy was too much to cope with. (that I DO know!)

I've never ridden in India but visited twice for work. A nightmare.

Sounds like you need to head for the Hills and away from the motorways?
Do be careful, but by now you could probably teach a course in MC survival on
Indian roads. It's nuts there (thank gawd I never drove there!)

To stay on topic, I guess your DRZ is considered a BIG bike there? Seems the pace in some areas is slow enough that 60 mph would be risky?

Any way, good luck getting things fixed up ... and safe travels.
(PS I'm only 5'6". Do OK on DRZ400S ... one butt check hang off to one side to get foot down is the ticket. DRZ is LOW vs. real dirt bike! (like 37" seat)

bier

MD, I can only speak about what I know. A Honda XL650V Transalp carted me and my missus 100,000 km around the world without missing a beat. Incredible!

Big, powerful and strong enough to make me feel 'king of the road' in countries like Indonesia, Nepal and India etc, yet it can also cope with long stretches of unsealed road /dirt, which you just cannot avoid from time-to-time.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...-5D5QZ8X-M.jpg

I don't think the US ever got the 650 (or 700) version of the TA. You guys had the 600 model for a while I believe, from 1989 through to ??

The only major mod that was /is essential, especially for 2-up travelling, is an upgrade to the rear shock absorber. I swapped the Honda stocker for a custom-built (Dutch) Hyperpro progressive-spring shock. That was about all it really needed.

I configured the luggage carrying capacity up to a whopping 230 litres ('liters' in your speak) of stowage space for our all our gear, which is important when you have a missus who absolutely needs to bring along her favourite hair-dryer .. and even her portable bidet!

Moreover, I crossed paths with an aussie mate (+ his wife) on a few occasions doing more-or-less the same trip as us. They were on a Suzuki DL650 V-Strom; yet another mid-weight twin .. and they absolutely loved it too.

I rest my case, m'lud
:mchappy:

I had it checked over pretty thoroughly in Kuala Lumpur at Sunny's (who is very good) and the conclusion was there's nothing wrong, it's just that with the heat (it's about 107F here now) and the RPMs I'm pushing it hard, and with 22k miles already on the clock it's not going to be that abnormal to be going through sone oil. Checking thumpertalk they seem to agree so *shrug*

As for the speed, I think at least part of it is I don't like to push the bike so hard that engine noise and vibrations and wobble get too excessive. On a really good road like malaysia has without wind I'll get around 70 (indicated, which is optimistic according to my GPS) - it's just not that fun even on those lovely roads!

There are enough Enfields here that 400cc is considered very normal, but it is true that a lot of India I don't get past 50mph cause of pedestrians/cows/villagers popping sudden U Turns on their scooters without looking that I don't like to chance much faster. Especially when it's a long HOT day and my attention starts to flag. There are some nice stretches, and I did catch a pillion ride with a guy that decided that 70 mph was a good speed for the middle of Calcutta - that I wouldn't recommend!

done a few trips here and there and the smallest bike I've ridden for any distance is a 250, my own TTR250 and in Thailand a 250 mini dominator. Gotta say the Thai riding was probably 60/40 road and off road but the off road was high becasue I was so happy and confident to take the bike away from the tarmac which meant I got to explore away from the road and see more. On the winding corners it was great fun and more than powerful enough given the rest of the traffic.

The TTR took me to Morocoo and yes the long ride across the windy plains of Spain were a chore but when I then spent months exploring Southern spain including lots of beach and mountains my 250 was an absolute joy, in soft sand you had to power on but once it was up and going it was great fun. 2 up when someone needed a lift i just took it easy and enjoyed the views. My TTR had the big 23 litre tank which meant I didnt need to stop very often.

I prefer the thinner flatter seats, i have short legs so the better stand over height and lower weight are a real plus for me, never found that my sheepskin over a think piece of camping mat were not up to a good 12 hour plus of riding, lets be fair you feel a 12 hour ride on any bike!

Would more power have helped absolutely but I don't think I would want lots more weight, My 660 tenere had the extra power but I always found the extra weight and wide seat/tank hampered my enjoyment away from the tarmac and it wasnt much fun to pick up, having a bigger tank and fairing meant it suffered badly in cross winds too.

I have a sv650 on the road its got a lovely engine but you really notice the weight when moving the bike around, it drinks fuel and back tyres wear out fast and cost a lot to swap!

What next, ideally a do it all bike that looks good and is not too heavy, got my eye on the new Fantic Cabelero 500 but need to wait until they come down in price on the used market andsee if they prove relaible or maybe a scrambler 800.

An easy pick would be the Honda 250 Rally, I love the looks and I'm not expecting it to set the world on fire :scooter: or a ktm 390 adventure but KTM seem a bit slow on the uptake

I enjoyed your comments! bier I traveled a bit on my former XR250R in Mexico, done LOTS of serious dirt riding on it too.

It was never set up properly for travel but could have been, but that bike's lack of elec. output and no sub frame was limiting. There are road versions of the XR (XR250L) but are heavier, less capable off road.

Many await KTM's 390 Adventure bike. Not sure why such a delay ... hopefully for KTM to correct some quality problems with the Indian made engine, which had some issues on both 390 Duke and Sports bike. If KTM can get that engine right, a 390 Adventure bike could be a winner for many.

I believe for now, KTM's focus is on upcoming 790 Twin next year. A critical bike for them ... but, IMHO, a really good 390 Adventure could turn out to be the REAL money maker. Time will tell.

I've been shopping a year for a Yamaha WR250R. Many good deals have come and gone and I still haven't bought one. Somehow I keep retreating back to my lowly old Suzuki DR650. I know this bike and have some idea of it's limits ... and mine. (the bikes are always more capable than I am off road!)

Plan now is to buy a "younger" low mile DR650, sell off old bike very cheap. It still runs fine, could be a great Travel bike for someone, it's well set up. Funky but strong and reliable. bier

for dual sport riding best bikes are in 600-800 cc range, most riders I met agree.
It's simple physics, nothing you can do about it. Luckily we have come back to that midrange in adventure bikes from yamaha, ktm and soon honda will joins.

Thanks for the replies, I understand there are pros and cons.

Mainly wanted to see if the adage "no one ever wished they had a bigger bike once they actually got going" really held up. A lot of time it just seems to be left unquestioned or only challenged by people who have never travelled 10k miles or more on a sub 300cc bike.

Good point regards riding 10K mi./sub 300cc bike thing.
i've ridden 100 km at a go in Asia getting between guess houses, but never hit the long road for 6 months or a year. My 125cc experience ran maybe 3 weeks,
so can't comment on doing what others have done on small bikes.

Other thing that could apply is riders age, condition and experience. A 30 year old in good physical shape and off road experience will do much better Horsing around a loaded up R1200GS off road than folks over 50 years of age and not in such good condition.

But no question, once out on the more open road, a bigger bike works for many.

As mentioned earlier here, if you go out "looking" for serious off road tracks, then the small bike adage is valid.

Best to try them all, big medium and small ... try to pick the best for your particular journey. bier

That's correct, USA got the 600 for just a couple years. I rode one, was not too impressed vs. my current bike at that time (around 1990) a Honda XL600R. (I think Dominator in UK?) One with the red engine!. A great bike and way faster than the Transalp I tested ... and I'm sure better off road as well. But XL600R NOT good two up ... at all. Pillion pegs attached to
swing arm!!!!! doh

A few HUBB riders did ride reports featuring the Transalp and did very well. No question a bullet proof bike! I preferred the DL650 Vstrom for a bike in that size and engine capacity. Both GREAT bikes ... but Transalp now rare around here,
more common in EU?

For two up travel I prefer at least 80 to 100 HP, but that means bigger bike even MORE weight. Trade offs. bier

Do you need to ask yourself what bike would you like to come down this hill on?

https://s19.postimg.cc/tgzeymsf7/OI005558.jpg


https://s19.postimg.cc/e89hkve6b/OI005561.jpg

This bike ...

https://s19.postimg.cc/fjh8th78z/hai..._2015_1303.jpg

Or this bike.

https://s19.postimg.cc/ypiuz080z/newa.jpg


Riding skills may help but IMO opinion it's all down to kg.

I have both bikes, so depends on my route and what type of road I expect to ride then I pick the bike to do the job?

That said on rides you will hit the unexpected, would I of got down that hill on the AT without coming off? NO
Not down to riders skill, just down to the bike to many kgs to keep upright.

All the other parts on that ride in Burma yes the AT in my hands would not have been a problem.


https://s19.postimg.cc/3wx4srk2b/OI005523.jpg



https://s19.postimg.cc/k7x8p0joj/OI005456.jpg


So the bottom line expects the unexpected and picks your bike accordingly.
And if you go big bike expect to be hitting the dirt at some time.?

One item not discussed here is cost. For a fraction of the cost, you can buy a smaller moto, and have more money left for travel costs. I know a traveler who rode through South America on a 125cc Honda, in order to afford to go now.

Bigger moto has more up front cost for the moto. Why delay going because you don't have enough money for both an expensive moto plus travel costs? If budget is holding you back, shave on the moto cost in order to enjoy international motorcycle travel now. It's well worth it; a month at a time, a year at a time.

Gas economy is better with a smaller moto, and gas prices can be relatively high in some countries.

Considering all this discussion, I travel both on a small 250cc moto, plus a larger moto 650cc. Both have their advantages and place.

If you are a budget rider then yes you are correct.
But some are not, so the upfront cost is not so important.
More to do with the ride and how and where you ride.
At the end of the day, I take my hat off to all people who decide to tour in this manner budget or not.

Ride safe and try and keep the rubber down?

the whole point is that's not always the case - klr 650 costs about the same as crf250, rally version is even more expensive. Also bigger bike doesn't necessary have worse mpg. Thanks to bigger mass their inertia helps quite often. Look at statistics. My 485lb nc750x has way better economy then cr250l and wr250r. Klr is actually very similar to wr250l, slightly worse then crf.

wr250r
Yamaha WR250R MPG - Actual MPG from 73 Yamaha WR250R owners

crf250l:
Honda CRF250L MPG - Actual MPG from 122 Honda CRF250L owners

nc750x:
Honda NC750X MPG - Actual MPG from 130 Honda NC750X owners

klr 650:
Kawasaki KLR 650 MPG - Actual MPG from 206 Kawasaki KLR 650 owners


If you can afford 2 bikes depending on type of the trip good for you, but if I can have only one I choose 600cc + any time of the day.

The other factor no one has talked about if your ride with the intention of staying in "HOTEL"
I don't care what 250cc bike you have, I can ride with ease and comfort more the double the mileage on my CRF1000 then you can on any 250cc.
Therefore saving on Hotel cost.
Like petrol, Hotels can be expensive and in most cases a lot more expensive than petrol.

The Honda CB500X has got very good fuel economy.

And in a lot of cases, the cost of purchase sometime is not a lot more than a 250cc.

IMO as said by many other members on the HUBB it comes down to the route, riders skill and how many kgs can you handle.


What size is better? Are opinions like assholes yes we all have one?

Same with me, the CRF250L or the AT? AT wins every time?

Hill? What hill?:smartass:
On above pic seems mud is the enemy, not the "hill".

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...xgLtWTc-XL.jpg
typical California Enduro riding, not as hard as it looks on light dirt bikes. First guy on CRF250R (74 years old)middle guy, XR250R (rider 65) , guy at top was 86 when this was shot, riding DRZ400S. He gave up dirt riding a years back at 90!
Still going!

I led them on this route. They weren't happy ... but all made it no problems. Trust me, it's MUCH steeper than it looks in pic. (this is Death Valley area)

So this may be an Asia thing, but parking at night has been one of the more surprising benefits of a smaller bike. The fact of the matter is most budget hotels/hostels I've been in have, er, "creative" solutions for parking that have involved riding up stairs, down cart ramps, around weird corners (that I've had to pick up the back end to turn it around) through alleys and crammed in the back with scooters only semi-secure.

People I've ridden with on bigger bikes always seem to end up at much nicer hotels because that's where there's going to be secure room for big bikes!

This type of wet mud is always the enemy, never the "hill".

Well done them older guys I am impressed

Jenny morgan is just starting a coast to coast USA tour on the new 310 BMW GS, as she previously did a similar route on her Yam 660 tenere it will be interesting to see how the two bikes compare.

as for MPG most of the smaller bikes offer far better mpg than the bigger ones exceptions are the honda 500/750's or ktm 690's which offer great mpg.

new honda monkey offer 160 mpg but I think its a bit too small :scooter:

You also have to ask how many times on a normal 20,000 km cross continent ride you will be encountering this terrain. Now back to people who found their bikes too small. We've seen many posts here defending whatever choice, no someone answer the original question.

So my only time on a small bike was a trip many years ago from the north to the south of Egypt. The only sand I encountered was the sand off the side of the road where I frequently ended up being pushed off of by trucks, busses and cars that were going faster than me. I wished for a more powerful bike so I could at least cruise above 60mph and stay ahead of the traffic.

I answered the original question a long time ago (i.e., 4 days and 20+ posts), and like you I've definitely wished for a bigger bike at times. Of course, I've also wished for a smaller one, and for knobbier tires--or for less-knobby. For carburetors when I had fuel injection, and for fuel injection when I had carbs. For a bigger windscreen or a smaller one; for soft bags or for aluminum cases; for more ground clearance or for less wind-resistance, for more luggage or less....

I've even wished I had no bike at all, although not as often as I've wished I had one when I didn't. You name it, I've wished for it. About the only things I've never regretted are a better seat and improved suspension, and I seldom bother with either one, since I'd apparently prefer to pocket the money involved and keep traveling.

Anyone craving simple yes/no answers is better off posting a poll, where they can define the possibilities in binary terms. Real life is seldom binary, despite our attempts to believe it so.

I apologize for not contributing any steeper-hill-deeper-mud-more gnarly-feshfesh photos to this thread!

Mark

Edit to add: You'd think I would know how to prevent the site software from insisting on "knobbier" and/or "knob-beer" when I'm merely trying to describe tires with relatively aggressive tread patterns.

"Disable smilies in text" when posting...

My sentiments exactly, down to the CB500. I took a 450 dirt bike from CT to Guatemala and it was torture. Crossing the USA was terrible, especially as I got to the lower states with stronger winds.

Not having a windshield, small tank, massively buzzy engine and poor ergonomics was brutal. I had the money and should have bought a small tourer like a CB, Strom or something similar.

The only real advantages was that once in Latin America, it was easier to take my bike in and out of my host family’s living room every day.

So yes, I wish I had a bigger and more comfortable motorcycle.

On a side note, I had a chance to spend some time with Daniel Rintz in Guatemala. He was over 3 years into his round the world trip on his 1200GS with his girlfriend. He and I spoke at length about my bike choice, a “bicycle” as he called it (KTM450). I asked about whether he wished he took a different bike. His reply was that for 95% of the time the GS is perfect. It has a low center of gravity, handles well, has been reliable and is incredibly comfortable. 5% of the time he explained is rough going and the bike is hard to ride due the size. So for a vast majority of his travel, his bike was massively comfortable and enjoyable.

It makes sense to me if you don’t dive too deep into the rough stuff.

I always wonder what type of trips people have when they say "My 1200cc is perfect for RTW travel".

Do they often, OR EVER, ride down small knarly tracks to camp next to jungle waterfalls. Do they ever stay at friendly local places where you can push your bike through their front door. Do they get their bikes onto small rafts and go island hopping. You see my point.

Maybe they do. But probably not. In my experience, it's the big bikes that are parked in sterile hotel carparks and it's the smaller bikes that are in all the fun 'off the beaten track' places.

If you discount weight, a 600cc enduro bike isn't really taller or wider than the average 250 enduro but easier to adjust for comfort.. But a 1200cc GS is a monster in comparison to a 600cc enduro.

The big bike Vs small bike debate is as silly as the hard pannier Vs soft debate. There is no answer. There are too many variables.

This is probably the best answer (: I have noticed a lot of the liter and above camp are two up or at least very heavy packers. Totally different needs from someone like me whose total bodyweight + luggage is < 100kg.

The primary variables seem to be:

- total weight being carried (need a bigger bike)
- need for flexibility on the road (need a smaller bike that you can jam into a guesthouse living room, pick up easily if dropped, park anywhere, manhandle around, etc)
- desire/need for serious offroad (need a more dirt oriented bike)
- need for comfort (need a more road oriented bike)
- need for speed :rofl: (need a bigger or more road oriented bike)
- budget (need a smaller bike)
- rider skill/preference/everything else

to answer the original question.

Yes I have wished for a bigger more powerful bike but its a bit like how I travel on foot, camp etc over the years I have realised you can take less carry a lighter load and have a more enjoyable time because of it.

I think the older 600 cc trail bikes offered nice flat seats that you could shift your weight and sitting postion on easily and in many ways these bikes were ideal but then engines grew and bikes got wider and heavier with more gadgets. It would seem unless you want to travel on a nibble enduro weapon then the bikes that still offer a good size/weight tend to be the smaller 250/300 trail bike class.

I think there have been more occasions when on a bigger bike I have wished for smaller/lighter than the other way round :scooter:

Agreed here, in both the accessibility of a smaller bike and the hard can soft pannier debate. But a lot of people don’t have the budget or time to go island hopping with their bikes or explore into the abyss. Those kinds of trips aren’t available to everyone.

It really comes down to how someone is traveling: time limits, trip goals, etc.

Some people want to do Alaska to Ushuaia in a few months or around the world in a year. With that kind of pace (either due to time limits, budget limits or goals) the trip becomes largely about mileage.

For me, comfort is a primary concern, but I wouldn’t find it on a GS. Too expensive for parts and it’s much bigger than I want in a bike. Still, everyone has their personal preference.

you think R1200GS is big? not so much, look at the Multistrada 1200 Enduro...

From the photos it looks massive.

As said earlier, a trip is really what you make of it. A friend of mine did multiple years doing Latin America in legs. He would return to France every 6-8 months or so for about month to manage his business. On his Honda NC700X he would spend about a month in each country, traveling slow and really getting to know a place. There is a big difference between visiting a place and living in a country for a month. So, for him, the fuel efficient and comfortable Honda was his ideal travel bike.

Sure, he was on a “bigger” bike and maybe he couldn’t head deep into the mountains, but I would argue that his experience wasn’t any less genuine that another’s who is on a small dual sport and can get to those far corners.

As per the op’s question, there are simple comforts that bigger (medium sized bikes) offer that the small bikes can’t. For my style of travel, I don’t see the advantage of riding a small thumper.

I was hoping you'd be getting into the "lack of reliability" issues with many
BMW's ... specifically the R1200GS's. Lots of documentation and feedback from experienced mechanics like you! Sure, some do OK ... but not all! It's big hit when things go Pear Shaped. Smaller bike? Not so much.

Even the weight (250's vs. 650's) is not all that massive on some bikes. CRF Rally, WR250R, KLX250's ... none are featherweights ... and most only about 40 lbs.(18 kg) to 50lbs (23 kg.) lighter weight than my loaded up DR650, which is only 324 lbs. (147 kg.) DRY. Once you farkle up and load a 250, suddenly it becomes a fairly HEAVY BIKE!

The trade off going 650 dual sport is a flat wide seat (mentioned earlier) for all day comfort, a shield if you want it, with some torque to push through gusty head winds where the 250's may struggle. Also, luggage carrying ability much better on the 650 vs 250.

But a day riding deep sand may change your mind (that 5% the BMW guy was talking about!) The good news is my portly DR650 is actually amazingly good in deep sand! (which I loath!)

Two Up? Possible on a 650? IMO, if going two up I'd go with a twin: GS, Capo, Vstrom, or any sports tourer.

Yea, but provides lots of anecdotes for those trying to decide which way to go.
bier

You left out the main bike and tour that really got her Rally Raid company going commercially:
The Honda CB500X Rally Raid
Rally Raid CB500X Adventure First Ride - ADV Pulse

Jenny is well tied into social media and bike forums to get free advertising for her Rally Raid business. Selling kits is what she's up to ... and from reports things are going well.

I wonder if we will see her ads posted up here on HUBB? Where she's gotten so much FREE coverage and FREE publicity for years? :innocent:

Or will she put that money into now commercial ADV Rider? or ABR or ...?

:mchappy:

exactly, and don't underestimate bike like nc750x. Very good torquey engine and can off-road as well using little fuel. As for the R1200GS it has almost same wheel base ans xt660z, what makes it "big" is wide boxer engine which is a pain in tight trails. Other then that very capable off-road as well, until it breaks ;)


p.s.
BTW I took my ktm 500 exc to mx track today, but had to ride 30 minutes on highway to get there, damn what a pain...

The NC is a very nice bike indeed. That trunk is also great for lockable storage.

Yep, Jenny definitely knows how to sound the trumpet for RR. She’s massively active on the forums and her responses are always long and through. While sometimes I feel it comes across as a sales pitch, she’s also got a lot of substance behind her product and from everything I’ve read, the RR kitted 500X is quite an impressive all-rounder. I’ve been getting all available info on it since last year as the build I hope to do for a bigger 2019 trip.

No. No regret. I went around Africa on a big 600 Honda for 700 Euro. It was nice and I would do it again as there are no shops and parts available along the westcoast anyway http://afrikamotorrad.eu/?report=en_westkueste

Then i bought a small 125cc bike to ride 28.000 km around South America and save shipping costs. Best choice ever. Riding the same bike as the locals you dont look and will be treeted as money on legs + all parts for the bike are available easy if needet: http://motorradtouren-suedamerika.de...en_suedamerika

In Asia and India we rendet many scooters for just 4 Dollars per day insted of shiping and importing exotic bikes around the globe. We loved them: http://schoene-motorradreisen.de/?re...ailand_bangkok

So true. 1200 GS are perfect for posing with big money at starbucks but Scooters are the best bike for offroading and cheap so you can spend your live riding and dont have to waste your lifetime in an office to pay for the rates of a BMW: https://www.facebook.com/Ronny.Famil...3343849059979/

True they never succeedet in any of the official german long term magazine tests: Google Translate Google Translate and even a third one Google Translate so i would call them the worst for RTW. Almost 50% of all BMW models fail, while Honda and Yamaha did not have any engine failure during a test withing the last 10 years http://www.motorradonline.de/dauerte...264182?seite=3

Tarmac, Hotel, Tarmac, Hotel? Cant be real offroading visiting the locals in the jungle and probably never compared to any other bike...

dude, stop spreading nonsense. Just because you cannot handle or afford big bikes off-road doesn't mean other can't. Matter of personal preference and quest for going cheap everywhere is not everybody cup of tea. Ironically there are much more reports/movies of people traveling and exploring gnarly terrains on big adventure bikes then on scooters or 125cc bikes. In fact I haven't seen any. Just because you own small bike doesn't mean automatically you have skills required. It's not the bike, it's the rider. doh

Except for the millions of locals who do it every single day? Some of the worst roads I've been on I'm still surrounded by people on 125 scooters with their mothers riding sidesaddle behind.

Or if you're only counting westerners there's Ed Marsh and Nathan Millward, or all the people who have taken their vespas to extreme places.

Are you likely to see ultra-polished youtube series about them? No, cause the guys travelling on small and cheap bikes probably don't own the drones and professional cameras and have the sponsorships that the guys on big bikes do, so it's a poor measure.

Simon Gandolfi is the first example I can think of; look him up on Amazon. He's written several books.
I've read dozens and dozens of trip reports here and on ADVrider about riders touring on small bikes. If it doesn't interest you, no worries, but I don't see why it's such a negative for you. Different strokes for different folks.

Yea, most here and elsewhere support her ... but I'd like to see her plowing back a bit of the profits into advertising on HUBB. The kits are good and truly tested in tough conditions.

The BMW G310 GS kit could really be a hit, best ever for the Rally Raid company. The basic starting platform on the BMW is decent ... so it's ripe for up grades to make it a better all round ADV bike. :thumbup1:

Big thing is the BMW looks pretty cool ... and even better with the kit fitted.

Good post and DEAD ON! :D

Tremens, I get what you're saying but you have to admit the above rings true. I've mentioned how two girls riding a 100cc Scooter passed me in mud in N. Thailand! Granted, I'm NOT a good mud rider and they do it EVERYDAY ... but still, this sort of thing is common, they get every where on little bikes and scooters. Been there, seen it.

Also, as mentioned, plenty running RTW on small bikes ... they just don't get big commercial sponsorship because there is little MONEY in it to sell new, expensive bikes or high end gear.

bier

Actually, thanks to this discussion I found her RR on ADVr and she's on the TAT right now with that little 310.

Not clear on what you mean about plowing profits into advertising. That Rally Raid should be advertising here or that they advertise too much?

Agreed here. There seems to be this strong sentiment that people who ride bigger bikes are automatically disqualified from having any notable "adventure" and that every last one of them is just pretending. People are out in the world traveling on a motorbike, big or small. Why this indictment of them personally if they chose a bike that you disagree with? How narrow minded.

This thread was started with an honest question. I hope that the OP feels that there have at least been a few helpful answers .

except that's not the point, besides bad, muddy road whatever it is it's still a road not a gnarly off-road, desert, river crossing etc. Don't matter anyway, point is not to put all big, expensive bike riders in one basket as a coffee shop, posers. doh It takes a lot of guts and skills to travel on such big machines. 125cc bike you can take like bicycle over your shoulder and walk over any obstacles, what accomplishment is that? :rolleyes2:

I've never seen an adds from Rally Raid in USA, don't know about UK, but kind of doubt it. They get so much coverage from forums and fans ... why bother?

My point was that if Rally Raid are doing well, it's due in part to forums like HUBB ... who need support.

ADV Rider has just begun to go commercial but with minimal ads. They have the luxury of having about 20 times the traffic of HUBB and a very generous American fan base of around 100,000 members who contribute 10's of $thousands$ each year, have done about 18 years now.

Yet even today most traffic on ADV Rider is in the infamous "Jo Momma" forum.

ADVr does not have any paid memberships as far as I know. Where does that figure come from?

Yes, Rally Raid has very effectively leveraged social media and forums to market its products. I definitely see your point there. And, it has built its reputation by word of mouth, which is, in my opinion, the best way to build any business. My initial reaction to your comment about kicking some money back to HUBB is in disagreement. Forums offer a free platform to congregate and chat, so giving something for free and then expecting something in return doesn't sit right with me. But, on the other hand, I can understand your perspective about showing some gratitude. I will have to say that comparatively, HUBB is a very very small community of regulars, which is why I come and go (for long periods). I categorize this site more as a place for travelers that are really reaching out there into the corners of the globe. So, I come by, scan a few subforums and then usually head over to ADV for a bigger contributing audience.

While it's great to see some of the really exotic travelers post here, from an economic standpoint, I feel that Rally Raid would not get much ROI here. The marketplace (potential client base) over at ADV has a much bigger audience and RR has invested in the CB500X forum to really target their market. Jenny's posts over on that Honda forum are all short novels. She really caters to those guys (and gals).

Right, nothing is paid, money comes from donations. When I say "commercial", I mean they now accept ads, which despite super lucrative offers over the years, Baldy, ADV site owner, rejected all until recently. I'm talking multi million dollar offers and all sorts of partnership offers as well.

HUBB and Grant and Susan nearly always took ad revenue. ADV Rider is most ALL USA members, HUBB is UK and Canada based but very diverse, with travelers world wide posting here. Very different.

Figures on ADV Rider membership are based on what is listed somewhere on the ADV Rider forum.
But even if they show a high membership number, you have to figure only a portion are current, active members. Same on all forums. So I guess-ti-mate between 50 and 100K active members on ADV Rider.

That makes sense. Yes, ADVr is a behemoth and I could see why advertisers would want in.

I think I mentioned it earlier, ADVr is my general motorcycle forum and there's a ton of information about everything except their focus on overlanding, where this forum has, what it seems to me, a bigger advantage/focus. I personally prefer the atmosphere of a smaller forum like this, although I also understand their need to grow to stay viable.

small bikes
 

At a motorcycle meet a while ago, I bumped into a young couple who in spite of owning some very nice touring motorcycles decided to go touring on BSA Bantams !!!! they had a fantastic time
for myself a clapped out 750 guzzi with 38bhp does just fine, as my riding skills are not great ( read non existant)
but wandering along a narrow road over the swiss alps I got overtaken and laughed with a load if nutters on scooters, 250 Vespas the modern ones, they were having a whale of a time
its all down to how much time you have, how far you want to go
or in most peoples cases the bike they already own
mine was described by journalists as the ideal bike for some one passing their test and to commute on
they just didnt specify how long since passing the test or how far the commute was !!
40 years ago, an old workmate returned to France to see his mates , on a 50cc Motorbike, a Honda, technically a moped, he owned a much bigger bike, but his reason was he wanted to travel light and at the speeds he used to travel then as a Don R , he came back after 2 weeks and had enjoyed his trip and laid a few ghosts to rest, and visited his mates in Normandy
I used to ask him to write about it, I know he took a few pictures, but he said that trip was between him and his mates !
pity it would have made interesting reading

Horses for courses.

My TW200 was perfect in the UK for Lands end to John O'Groats!
My Klr650 was Under powered across the plains of the USA!

:mchappy:

If you step off a GS then 10bhp or whatever from a small bike is going to be a disappointment and you'll always be trying to get the thing to go faster. If you're constantly thinking I wish I'd brought something bigger or faster or with more road presence and this thing's so slow its useless then you're never going to get the best out of the trip. You need to change your mindset as well as your motorcycle.

In some respects 'small biking' (50/100/125cc anyway) almost closer to pedal-bike cycling than motorcycling. It's not just a slower, more frustrating version of 'normal' bike touring, it's almost a different activity altogether.

I've done a lot of small bike trips over the years. Three years ago I did 2000 miles through France / Italy on a 125 two weeks before starting a 10,000 mile trip in the US on an 1800cc bike. Both of those trips have been written up in book form (part of the 125 trip even got 3 pages in Bike magazine) and, from an interest point of view, there's not much between them. Stuff happens and that's what you write about. It's just that different stuff happens when you're riding a big bike compared to when you're on a small one.

On the subject of writing, I can understand why some people would be reluctant to commit to paper (or electrons), particularly if there is a personal element to the trip. Writing is both hard and time consuming and, if you're not doing it commercially (i.e. through a publisher), normally brings very little reward.

The 120,000 word book (about half of the US trip mentioned above) I've just finished took me two years to write and will have a circulation of maybe five or ten copies, all of which I will have paid for. So why would I bother other than as a labour of love. Having said that I'm already planning a summer 2020 trip specifically intended to be written as a book afterwards. It involves a 4000 mile trip on a 1970(ish) vintage 250cc two stroke. All I need to do now is find one.



The USA trip book cover:


http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...86-b3small.jpg

I kept out of this thread, but all I can say...

I LIKE BIG BIKES!!!!

Did many years on small bikes, then medium, them large. Since then I've had several trips on-and-off on small and medium bikes. And as backofthebeyond says: "If you step off a GS then 10bhp or whatever from a small bike is going to be a disappointment and you'll always be trying to get the thing to go faster." The smaller bikes are always a disappointment for me to the point where I don't enjoy myself and wonder why I'm doing this....


As it is, I think my CRF1000 can do with another 10-15hp :innocent:

Currently riding the KKH in North Pakistan on a Suzuki 150 and am enjoying it immensely, I am one of the faster moving vehicles on the road and have found it easy to ride on some of the dirt roads I have been on.

Oh, I agree. Nothing wrong with big bikes and I've done quite a few trips on some of the biggest around over many years. It really isn't a case of 'when I was a child, I bought as a child, I rode as a child, I saw as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things'.

For me small bikes are more than just a poor, penny pinching, when I grow up I'll be able to afford a real one, substitute for 150bhp, they introduce a different dimension to whatever I'm doing. I've done stuff on small bikes I'd never have been able to do on a big one (and vici versa). I suspect Mark wouldn't swap his KKH 150 Suzuki for this -

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...new-mexico.jpg

no matter how many extra bhp he got. :rofl:

And neither would I when I was riding through this last winter - http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ike-trip-2.jpg

Give the little stuff another chance. To quote Richard Feynman out of context, 'there's plenty of room at the bottom' :rofl:

Beautiful Winter Pic!

We're kinda going in circles here on this topic .... but for me it's gets back to figuring what sort of riding terrain you will mostly do. If it's all ON Road then I'm much more inclined towards BIG BIKES.

But since I have a dirt bike back ground I also like good off road bikes. To me,
R1200GS is NOT a good off road bike. I love riding the GS (on road) not off road. I've seen what happens when a big KTM or GS falls on a rider. Not always a good outcome! :oops2:

My DR650 is a pretty good compromise. A true Dual Sport. Pretty good ON Road if set up correctly and somewhat capable off road too, including deep Baja sand, rutted, steep rocky Sierra Trails and wide open Baja Desert rocky tracks. Not bad on a fully loaded bike.

I love little bikes for many countries, mostly rentals for me. Fantastic in Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam and probably India or Pakistan. In that Mud over there, a bike much larger than 150cc is (for me) a "No Go".

Sure, little bikes can be a bit of a drag riding fast North American or Euro roads. You have to adjust your expectations and get used to low road speeds,
limiting packing space and perhaps limited range (depending on set up).

Problem of course on a long trip, you can't always predict road conditions or what roads you might end up on. So choosing a bike can be confusing.
Or ... buy (or rent) the right bike for the specific ride. bier

Molly - I know you like to pontificate on pretty much any subject here on the HUBB, but if you are going to 'criticise' me, at least get your facts right.


1. Rally-Raid Products is not my company, it belongs entirely to John Mitchinson and his family.


2. I worked with John in developing the CB500X project in 2014, as it was exactly the bike I wanted to build to continue travelling, and he had the engineering expertise and facilities to make those ideas a reality. Subsequently I consider it is still the best compromise as an all-terrain travel bike for the kind of riding I like to do, and consider myself an ongoing ambassador for the machine and the project.


3. Rally-Raid Products financially support/sponsor a number of online forums, including CB500X.com and G310R.com

They are also a regular exhibitor at both the UK and Irish Horizons Unlimited meetings, where they have to pay to attend. They were also one of the first vendors/exhibitors to offer free test-rides to the event attendees.


4. Along with the paid-for websites, they also have dedicated threads in the Vendor section on ADVrider, providing a huge amount of content and a valuable technical resource with regard to their products and more general machine set-up advice (including compatibility with various 3rd party products where that knowledge has been gleaned) - in what has essentially become a community page for owners and potential owners of their modified machines.

I am a regular contributor on their behalf in that regard, together with offering advice in the more general model-specific threads based on my own extensive experience with both my existing CB500X and now the G310GS too; along with other bikes on which I have raced and travelled over the years including the XT660Z, the XR400R and the XT225.


5. Since 2010 I have regularly hosted a series of AV presentations at a dozen or more Horizons Unlimited meetings in both the UK and all over the United States and Canada - most recently at both Virginia and Canada West earlier this year, each with three individual presentations - one on each day.

As I trust you are aware - no one is paid to be a presenter at Horizons Unlimited meetings, and quite apart from the actual travel-to and attendance of these events, producing a series of hour-long AV presentations takes a huge amount of time and effort to create something of presentable and professional quality. I do this since I consider myself to be in a privileged position to travel as extensively as I do, and like to share those experiences in an effort to inspire other travellers who are part of the HUBB community.


6. All of my multi-day trips in recent years have also been catalogued extensively here on the HUBB in the Ride Reports section - I consider them to be both informative and entertaining, and something the users of this forum can enjoy.


As Stuxtttr introduced on a previous page of this thread, I have recently completed an extensive trip all over North America on my G310GS (17,500 miles in total) - having ridden initially from Virginia to California in May, then all the way back east to Toronto Canada in July, before turning round and heading back to California via Horizons Unlimited in Nakusp BC in August.

This latest trip will also be serialised here on the HUBB in the coming weeks, just as soon as I get some time to assemble/edit it - since I am currently in the middle of moving house...

EDIT: condensed ride report from the summer is HERE in Ride-Reports...


So I trust you can now appreciate the amount of support both Rally-Raid Products and I personally offer both Horizons Unlimited, and the wider adventure riding community as a whole.

Jenny x

PS. to keep this post 'on topic' - without wanting to put out any spoilers in regard to my opinion of the all-round 'adventure' capabilities of the G310GS (it's all going to be detailed in my ride report ;o) - suffice to say, it does everything I asked of it (including repeated back-to-back high-mileage days) surprisingly well for what is essentially a small capacity single... However, I would concede that the larger capacity twin-cylinder Honda is a more relaxed machine - particularly at higher speeds when you have a lot of miles to cover. The GS will do it (and not complain), it's just the Honda does it better...

Don't think I added this before but my 250 TTR has given me more smiles per mile than any other bike.

From scratching past Ninjas in Snowdonia on route back from a tour to Ireland or screetching the tyres on Andalucian mountain roads it never ceases to amaze me what a well built and competent bike it is. I've done things on it that I just wouldnt have attempted on a bigger/heavier machine and yes 24bhp! isnt going to rip your guts out but it can still be the fastest vehicle going down a motorway you just have to ring it!

I was in Ireland riding the Dingle penisula road and spotted a fishing boat lying about half a mile away across a bay, the tide was out so I gunned it to the seaward side of the fishing boat and gained a handy shortcut in the process. I just would not have risked that on a bigger/more exspensive machine.

Its only in deep sand that I've really wished for some extra power to pull the bigger gears :scooter:and the electric start was agodsend at the weston beach race :mchappy:

Hi there!

I'm new in the forum and also quite novice in off-road riding. I'm struggling with the same question (small or big) as I'm about to buy new (used, budget level) motorcyle for longer tours. I prefer small roads, dirt roads, log roads and not very interested in highways. That's the reason to buy small bike (eg. DR350). But on the other hand I live in Northern Europe and like to travel in Mediterranean countries, which means a lot of highways too, where a bigger bike (eg. XL600V) would be much better.

But because I have never ridden a small enduro bike, I'd like to know what is the real difference in dirt roads or trails between say 350cc and 650cc bike? And I mean the difference when the bike is equipped with good street capable enduro tyres (eg. Michelin Anakee) and 30-40kg of luggage.

Could it happen that with these tyres (not knobbies) and luggage the small bike is not so agile any more and difference between them is much smaller?

Hi Snufkin - as you've speculated, if you're going to start riding with 30-40Kg of luggage onboard, then you're unlikely to be fully exploiting the benefits of a smaller/lighter 'trail' bike anyway, so yes, the difference is not going to be quite so marked - although the same would be said for a larger bike carrying the same sort of luggage load too of course, so the smaller bike is still that much lighter to pick up of you drop it for example...

I think as you've ascertained, the requirements for a longer-distance travel bike are not the same as they would be for a single day-out trail-riding in tougher terrain... much more of a priority is going to be comfort and reliability, luggage carrying capacity and longer maintenance intervals etc. - all of which changes your priorities from the outright 'performance' of your bike to the 'overall' performance if you see what I mean?

If you like to take the smaller roads - ie. 100kmh and below type riding, then a smaller capacity bike still has a lot to recommend it (as long as it has a comfortable seat and decent luggage carrying capability), but if you want to hammer down a few hundred kms of Autoroute before (or after) the main part of your trip, then yes, a larger capacity bike is going to make easier work of that kind of riding - which is why a lot of people still chose a 650cc class single-cylinder bike (KLR/XR/DR/GS/KTM690) as it does have the edge over the smaller capacity trail bikes on the open road, but is typically still not quite as large or bulky as a 750+cc twin 'Adventure' bike once you get it on the dirt.

Personally, if you do plan to ride a lot of highway miles, and don't really intend to ride 'hard-core' off road on this particular bike, then for multi-surface adventure riding with luggage, I'd recommend you look at a Honda CB500X with a Rally-Raid wheel and suspension kit fitted - it neatly bridges the gap between a 650cc single off-road, while offering the on-road refinement of a larger twin.

Hope that helps...

Jenny x

Thanks for your reply.

If you look at the problem this way: what parts do you have to skip, if you travel with large bike (650cc) with the luggage and the suitable tyres instead of small bike? The answer is maybe more clear. With large bike you have to skip most of the off-road and nothing else. Some dirt roads and trails maybe more demanding but still possible.

And this takes you to an other question: could you do those part with just smaller bike of should you also have less luggage and more knobby tyres? I cannot answer to that, but I have my doubts that with street capable tyres the answer isn't that clear. Riding real off-road you need real off-road tyres.

CB500X seems to be quite new bike and out of my budjet. Instead of that I'm thinking of either 650cc single (XT660, Aprilia/BMW 650) or 600cc Transalp. TA is heavy but would have a twin engine which I do like.

Does anybody have an opinion is there difference between 650cc single and 600cc twin (TA) when riding technical parts like crossing rivers or rocky trails? Is the single more easy to stall in very slow speed (low revs)?

Hi Snufkin - generally speaking, a twin-cylinder adventure bike is going to be a little larger and more heavy than the equivalent capacity single-cylinder 'trail' bike, as the twins are designed to cover larger on-road distances in greater comfort and with more luggage/a passenger in comparison.

That is not to say that on the right size twin-cylinder machine, you couldn't take it pretty much anywhere you could take the single cylinder trail bike - but like all these questions, it very much depends on the rider, not the machine in itself.

With regard to the proposed riding you suggest - travelling from northern Europe to Mediterranean countries and exploring 'of-road' a little more - if you are talking about exploring defined dirt-roads and trails, then most 'adventure' bikes on the right tyres are going to be just fine (personally I have done a lot of riding in both Spain and Portugal, and also Morocco for example)... It's only if you want to start riding more technical single-track trails (ie. more suited to lightweight enduro bikes) that you'll start to find the limitations of a larger bike - and as I mentioned above, you're unlikely to be doing that kind of riding with a full luggage load anyway... unless you're really proficient as an off-road, which means the question shouldn't really be an issue anyway?

As I say, I recommend the best thing to do is pick a bike that handles the majority of your riding/proposed trip most comfortably and efficiently, and simply ride around any practical/physical limitations if and when you are in terrain you experience is outside of it's ideal.

Hope that helps...

Jenny x

Small bikes it is more for everyday riding in a town but if we talk about journeys it is better to choose bigger and more powerful one.

I picked up a 500x with a Rally RAID L1 kit already installed. So far it has been great for city and paved roads between cities. I have yet to take it off road, but then again I'm not an experienced off-road rider. I have ridden larger adv bikes and this CB500X inspires much more confidence. I think it'll be the foundation of my travel bike. It does need some ground clearance though. The L2 kit could solve that.