Scooter-tastic
 

Hello all,

Long story short - my arthritic hip prevents me riding my motorbike due to the seating position forcing my knees apart. Riding for just half an hour hurts for days. Being, at heart, a two wheeled soul, driving a car to work is driving me nuts, so I start thinking about a scooter - riding knees together and all that.

One thing leads to another and I start wondering about the potential for travelling on a scooter. I know it can be done - I've seen the blogs and photos. I'm just wondering what its like? I'm one of those perverse people that loves the idea of doing things differently. The judicious application of inappropriate tools. Using a banana to crack a nut, if you like.

Thinking of buying a Yamaha BWs 125 and commuting on it - and taking it to Europe. Any tips on travel for the novice scooterist?

MAtt :)

Hi Matt

I can't quote makes and models, but there a good number of step thru scooters made now. That push the term "scooter" to new limits, larger size and weight and horse power than grand mothers scooter.

I´ve had a 115cc Yamaha Nouvo in Thailand, did many trips with it, and it is in many ways a very funny&good choice for touring SE Asia.

Europe sure is a bit different area, with its fast motorways, but all in all, I see no reason, why you could not tour on a scooter here, too! The backroads are often the places you want to be exploring anyway, so unless you want to play you´re a GP-racer in the alpine roads, or need to get from Copenhagen to Gibraltar in 2 days, it can do more or less everything a big bike does. You can find large-capacity scooters these days, too (and you could probably reach Gibraltar in 2 days with one, if you like!)

Actually I recently made a web-site about the trips&scooters (well, sort of - it´s my 1st ever, will probably make any proper web-designer laugh, and it was only a school exercise, which I´d like to finish some day, but not sure if I find the time!)... well, anyway, it is at:

Chicken Chasers

Matt - sorry to hear about your hip but don't depair - scooters are still great fun!

My first bike was a 750 but I still didn't learn to ride hard on tarmac until I worked for Pizza Hut and got a 50cc company moped. Probably the most fun I've had on two wheels but severely limited by a top speed of 30. I'm planning a big off road trip on some old 125 scooters soon and am sure it will be fine.

As far as I can tell there is not a huge amount of information about travelling on scooters but the new generation of Burgmans etc shouldn't have any trouble at motorway speed, with arguably a much more comfortable position than a 'proper' motorbike and better wind protection.

You going to Ripley this year? I hope to have an 'overlanding scooter'.

Thanks for the replies guys.

I think I'd like to stick to 125 max. As far as I can see, the whole point of a scooter is light, underpowered fun. The bigger a scooter the more it is going to feel like grandad's motorbike, rather than the thing Mario takes girls to the beach on. I did think about going 50cc, but that seems to be a bit too hardcore for me! I'd like to be able to overtake tractors.

I like your scooter gang Pecha! Nice website too!

Where are you off to on Scooters Henry? Sounds intrigueging.

Probably not going to Ripley (although I might if I have bought myself a scooter!). Would be interested to see an overlanding scooter! Post some pics if you have them!

I was thinking a smallish peli-case topbox and a dry bag. If I was going to be really fancy I'd get some of those Australian throw-overs the name of which escapes me for the moment. Having said that, fast and light is probably the way to travel.

It would be fun to rig up a scooter with lots of BMW1200gs/helicopter gunship accesories. Loads of cnc'd aluminium and alloy boxes and carbon fibre GPS mounts. An expensive gag though... :)

We are off to the Sahara Matt, Morocco, Mauritania, Mali and Senegal. Start in Sheffield (obviously) but then to Budapest where the start of the Great African run is. We will be doing the return trip on our own but I wanted to see if I could compete against a few GSAs and KTMs on a 125.

I will post some pics as soon as I have the bikes - so far we have just got the support vehicle (325 quid off e-bay!) which we are going to refit as an ambulance and donate to a hospital in either Bamako or Bissau.

I asked Touratech and they're not up for developing a range of overlanding scooter accessories. Rather than using CNC machined alloy we have a load of old pizza trays to fabricate bash plates/brake reservoir guards etc out of. They're some kind of alloy and the ones for the 'thin-base' are full of small holes already. It's like they designed them for the job! One good thing about old pizza bikes is they have a MASSIVE (but admittedly rather weak) 'top-box'.....

Sounds fantastic Henry! Nice idea on the support vehicle too! Have you got a Pizza company to sponsor you?

I tell you, this whole having a normal job thing sucks. I've basically allocated all my leave for this year to a) a honeymoon (aye, gettin married!) and b) a week camping in the western isles with the (by then) wife. Very nice holidays and all that but not much left for adventures! I have just a week of leave left, which I'm going to use for something semi-adventurous. Top of the list at the mo' is a scooter trip to Colditz. Would really like to go on up to Tallin, but it would be a bit of a push to get there and back in a week!

Matt :)

Congratulations on the engagement!!

We are in discussion with one of the major Pizza companies but I'd better not name any names until we have the bikes in the bag. If they don't come through we will have to get some secondhand ones but they come up for sale fairly regularly as Cat C stolen/recovered write offs. So far we have only one equipment sponsor - Yorkshire Tea are giving us the brews. After all a cuppa is the number one requirement when things are going tits up.

P.S. the 'other' company use 50cc peds which won't be able to get up a dune, let alone show a larger bike a clean pair of knobblies. I used to work for them and managed to write off several in Sheffield due to potholes/ice etc so I don't think they would survive the trip to Budapest let alone anything harder.....

Aargh! Just been looking at a map of Europe. If only I had two weeks, instead of one! The potential is enormous!

:(

Cool! At least you've got the tea sorted! :)

Good luck with it. Have you got a blog/website set up?

Bamako or Bust - Home

The site is using 'InstantSite' from 123-reg. Which is more like 'InstantShite' - I will be moving it over to another platform soon but you get the idea....

We are also on Twitter (groan) @HalfBakedPizza

Cool. Notice you are looking for kit. I have a slightly scruffy dirt bike helmet, which I think is 59cm. Its black and in reasonable condition. You can have it if you want. I also have a Coleman Sportster Stove that runs on unleaded. Could possibly do with a service but it seems to work fine. I have upgraded to the slightly smaller, lighter version, so you can have that if it will help with brew ups!

Will have a look and see if I have any other spare kit which might be of use.

Matt

Fantastic! I have a 5 year old Arai Tour X that's only been down the road a few times - I'll be using that but team members 2 and 3 are looking to source some off-road helmets - I will go and measure their heads!

The stove would be a great help!

hi matt,
my mate has severe and getting worse difficulties with his feet, he has had a variety of twist'n'goes from 125 piaggio X9, suzuki burgmann400 and his current (2nd) burgmann650 exec.
im a biker but i would have no regrets or 2nd thoughts about going on a tour with either of them, i think the split between 'bike' and 'scooter' is getting very blurred these days with automatic bikes and electronic 'gear' modes on T&Gs. i simply imagine the burgerking is a T&G equivelent of a honda deauville with pan euro equipment.
if you limit yourself to 125cc then there are hundreds to choose from, most would happily do 60mph forever and you can even get offroad tyres for them, so whats stopping you?

Sorry to hear about your hip Matt. I enjoyed following your blog for the Iran trip. A friend of mine just rode his 125 Vespa from the UK over the Alps to Italy and back.

My wife and I rode Cape Town to Nairobi on classic Vespa scooters. It was easy and fun. There are many scooter adventurists arround, just not in this forum. Giorgio Bettinelli set out on an RTW on a classic Vespa and his guitar - no tools, no parts, no experience. He rode more than 254.00o km and covered very corner on our planet. Two guys even finished in the 1980 Paris - Dakar on classic Vespas, and in 2012, me and two friends will participate in the Budapest to Bamako Rally on two classic scooters.

On a trip from Norway to Finland I met a fellow scooterist that had ridden a modern Honda Maxi Scooter from Japan, through Russia, and was on his way to the North Cape.

While a motorcycle require a bit of muscelling to navigat, telepathy will suffice on a scooter. They are a blast to ride, and easy to ride on 99% of all kms you will likely be riding with arthritis. I would however conscider not going for a classic like mine, but something newer and something with a bit more umph - like a 300cc.

A bigger engine will wrk with less strain and will have less problems with it. Also, you will enjoy the extra power going up hills, riding at altitude, and carrying all that weight.

Thanks again for the input folks. It certainly seems as though the scooter is a capable form of transport outside the city. I'm still weighing up the power aspect. Part of me wants to be able to overtake stuff - another part of me relishes the challenge of underpowered riding and the idea that a slow bike forces you off the motorways and allows you to appreciate the surroundings. On the one hand, a 125 scoot would be a very diifferent experience to touring on the XT, but on the other it would not be so different from touring on my enfield, which has a top speed of about 65 and a cruise of 55 mph. (And a Yamaha scoot would probably involve much less maintenance!) Although the enfield does cope with luggage quite well. Not sure a sub 10 hp bike would cope as well.

I even have a plan formulating - I have just about enough leave (I have painstakingly calculated!) to take a 12 day holiday in the summer. No specific destination in mind - just get on the scooter and ride east for six days - see where I end up. I reckon I'd be content with Germany, happy with poland and pretty damn chuffed with getting to the baltics - Lithuania or even Latvia. Could be a lot of fun! :)

I reckon to travel super light - one set of clothes for riding - one and a bit sets for off. Tools. Books. Whisky. Open face helmet. And that's it. Reckon I could fit all that in a small top box and a drybag.

Matt

Couple of pointers:

A two stroke is easier for a novice to tinker with if you need to be self reliant in terms of repairs. However, they usually use far more fuel, which will impact your range. Also, they use quite a bit of two-stroke oil which is not readily available in some parts of the world, like much of Africa. You will find that you on some stretches will haul far more oil and fuel that you need, simply because you feel you cant rely on it being available down the road.

A royal Enfield is, as you probably know, not very reliable, with so many known weaknesses that you would have to bring half an Enfield with you if you need to travel fast and be self reliant in terms of spares and tools. It would however, be quite macho and cool.

A modern four stroke Honda might not be as easy to work on for a novice, then again they are very reliable.

As for power, I know of people who did all of the americas on 50CC Honda Ruckus - it can be done.

But, more power gives you many benefits which I would not readily trade for the prestige of riding the underdog of underdogs just for the prestige and self worth. Like a friend of mine told me, you can wipe your ass with grass, it sure will do the job. But why do it when you got silky toilet paper?

You need to ask what the most important aspects of this trip is, and which trade-offs you are willing to do. I bet the roads, the distances, and your destinations are important to, not just getting a notch in your belt.

I don't think a 125 cc modern twist and go scooter will give any prestige over any vehicle - they are dull, they are boring, and they are uninspiring (my opinion). The only reason I would consider one of these would be because they were practical and affordable for people who have few other options. If you want class, then classic rides of any sort - i.e Enfield, Ural, a Vespa, Honda Cub C90... You can get a Vespa PX 200 E which will take you along higwhays if you want (two stroke with plenty to go wrong).

Hmm, interesting points Wheelie, thanks. I think it is definately worthwhile to think about your motivations. To start with the idea to ride a scoot came from the inability to ride my moto for longer periods and the purpose was to commute - not to travel.

As the idea took hold, however, my motivations have changed a little. I would like to travel on two wheels again - even if its only for less than a fortnight. I've not been able to do that for a few years now.

And why do I want to do it on a wee 125, rather than a bigger burgman or similar? Partly because those big scooters simply don't appeal, they just don't trigger that indefinable little spark of desire in my subconscious. But I think, even more importantly, I'm looking for a new experience. Zooming along in comfort on the autobahn with loads of luggage would, I think, simply feel too similar to touring on the XT. Too easy, done it before. Too fast, too tempting to jump on the motorway and open the throttle to get as many miles under the wheels as possible. I've ridden through europe too many times on a big 'powerful' bike. I'd like an experience that is a departure from those I've done before.

I understand the 'grass/silky bogroll' metaphor, but I'm not sure I agree. The logical conclusion of that is that the best bike for touring is something like a fast, powerful BMW1200GS and to use anything else is a compromise. Plenty of people will testify to the peculiar pleasures of travelling by slow transport. Just because I had a motorbike in the garage (even when I could ride it! :) ) didn't stop me cycle touring.

It still requires some thinking over - I still don't know for sure what the right choice for me is.

Cheers Wheelie, food for thought! :)

Matt

There are lots of scooter that well do the trick. ch250 and cn250 honda fusion come to mind. They go 128 k flat out But since you live in Europe you ve got a lot more scooters to chose from. Quite a few you ve got theKymco, Downtown 300i Piaggio, MP3 300 ,Honda, Silverwing 400 Honda, Forza X 250 Suzuki, Burgman 400Yamaha, YP400 Majesty to name a few without even going into vespa. ( watch for old 1960 -1980 asia imported vespa that are death traps , at least to your wallet) The BMW C1 Scooter is something you can get over there. The first real scooter with a roof and windshield wiper and was one of the safest scooter ever built. It has a built in roll cage . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_C1 You might just want to head over advriders and ask in the battlescooter section about this. Most scooters around 150cc will do flat out 60 mph and give you 80 plus mpg. I myself love the honda cn250 helix or fusion as its called there. It was in production for 25 years and the engine still being cloned today. It was the fist maxi scooter. It's also one of the scooters that often is found running the ironbutt run that is held once a year.
As to what is like touring a scooter? It's not that much different then doing it by a motorcycle. Add some sadle bags and rear trunk and your good to go. Here in canada the highest road speed is 70mph and my biket does 76 flat out on non hilly roads. Hills mean you ll be going any were from 45 to 60 mph up them depending on how high and long they are. You ll slow down and see more stuff touring on a scooter. Depending on what you buy you ll get between 60 to 125mpg . That can factor in on where you can go somewhat. it depends on what you gas tank holds. Todate scooter have done some of the same trips hard nose touring riders have done. People have taken vepsa , honda cubs etc from europe to india and back. Out side of Europe , usa , canada scooters are the main transport that people used get around.
Draw backs to scooter are rear tires wear out in less then 4000 K.

All you've gotta remember is that a ton of people CYCLE around the world, often for years on end. In fact I'm still toying between a bike and motorbike.

Stick to the back roads as they do and I reckon you'll be fine. Not only that you'll get to enjoy more.

I've got the motorcycle travel book Uneasy Rider by Mike Carter, great read. In that he encounters a bunch of lads who go off travelling around Europe on scooters.

Given the quality developments in scooters in recent years, I reckon you'll be fine.:thumbup1:

In my experience of small scooters.

Peugeots are reliable and good all-rounders.

Piaggios (That includes Aprilias, Gileras and Vespas) tend to be good quality, but are known to go dodgy after only a few years use.

Hondas are normally the best for both speed, quality and reliability, but are expensive compared to others. Similar to Yamahas and Suzukis.

TGBs and SYMs are cheap, sluggish compared to their non-Taiwanese counterparts, but not bad on the reliability front.

Heard bad things about Chinese scooters, but never experienced one myself.

Try and grab a copy of Twist and Go magazine, that ought to help you make a decision. :smartass:

Hi,

Many thanks for all the replies. I've just bought a 1967 BSA Bantam which has a nice low seat and a narrow tank and it seems I can ride it in (reasonable) comfort. Time will tell if touring is a practical possibility on it, so the scooter may still be an option! :)

Matt :)

I hope you will enjoy scooter "adv-riding" despite your health problems.

I think 250cc is the lowest level for engine size for a touring scooter (for 2).

I've travelled about 40k km on my scooter - Yamaha Majesty 250 - usually fully packed & with 2 people.

I did some trips on my YP 250 to Ukraine (Crimea), Turkey (close to Syrian border), Balkans, Central Europe etc with out serious problems. Up to nearly 10000 km during some trips.

Only high in the mountains (above 2600m) I had problems with low power engine (23HP) and luck of manual gear-box.

My usual travel speeds are up 95-105km/h (with 2 people and their "travel stuff") with a daily range about 1000km.

I don't think scooters are good for Himalayas Highway or the "Road of Bones", but for most european, northern arfica & asia countries scooters are OK for travel.

You just have to remember to take a 2nd v-belt with you! :)

Scooter is just another motorbike with a huge - I mean HUGE - packing capabilities (200-300L of stuff on a scooter - no problem :D)