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Pros and Cons for 4 bikes wanted
I've been in contact with 'Drivemongolia' and he emailed me this:
" Yes I have 2 Africa twins with boxes also have few 2-3 Transalps for sale for $3000 per bike. You can have a look when you are in UB also have couple Suzuki DR 650 and Yamaha XT 600's all for $3000" OK, I got my license this summer and am NOT an experienced rider. Therefore riding one of these beauties back home is both scaring and appealing. I'm alone, with a tent. Length: 188 and 79 kilos. All bikes look awesome when googling them (just appearences) .. but maintenance/weight/difficulty/etc... might be worth considering not going for the looks. (Oh, if only I knew this before I met my now ex girlfriend ;) ) Anyone got any advice on what would be best? I understand. .. things depend on condition and such, but since there all 3k... well, let's have a wild guess. Thanks!!! Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory. |
All of them are great bikes, wouldn't knock any of them.
What are your plans with the bike? what use? Mezo. |
Let me see if I've got this right - you're thinking of going out to UB by plane or something, buying one of the bikes you mentioned and riding it back to Europe? The thing that worries you is that any of the the bikes are much bigger than you've had experience with and even any experience is limited. Additionally, as you'll be on your own, lack of experience with big bike riding and with overlanding could mean the whole thing goes badly wrong. Is that about the size of it?
Well it could go badly wrong - or you might have a great trip. I suspect it'll come down to whether you're a glass half full or a glass half empty kind of bloke. These things never go completely smoothly and it sounds as though you might be loading the dice a little but overcoming problems is part and parcel of bike travel. If you can genuinely see the problems as part of the trip then go for it. In your position I'd probably look at them in this order : 1. XT 2. DR 3. TransAlp 4. Africa Twin The choice between the DR and the TransAlp is a close one though and what condition any of them are in + if there are any extras could change the order completely. That's probably not the best order for resale value but you have to get back first. It sounds like a good idea for a trip. I've done enough seat of the pants stuff in the past to think you should go for it. Just think safety first - it's important when you're on your own. |
Hi backofbeyond, yes, basically that's the rough idea. I do understand things could go seriously wrong but then again.. why not try it? reselling and value is not an issue. IF I make it back I want to keep since I gave no other transport at the moment.
I have no riding experience but I do have some technical understanding in case of failure (don't refer to this when I ask questions when stuck somewhere in the middle of nowhere! ) and I do know how to navigate. Have traveled quite some trips alone, just not overlanding. Don't get me wrong here, I'm scared about the whole thing. Many things that could go wrong! So if there are more tips and advice, please share them. When I get there I'll check out the bikes for extras and current state. Then ask again. Thanks so far!! I do look forward to it:) Blommetje Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory. |
Well I can't give you any specific hints or tips or advice regarding riding back from UB as I've never been out that way and have no idea what the roads and / or conditions are like. There are others here who who have far more knowledge of the terrain and hopefully they'll chip in.
In general though there's a number of things you might want to consider before and during the trip : 1. Paperwork - driving licence, visas, insurance (for the bike), registration documents or whatever is required to record the bike as your property and whatever is required to fulfil import requirements (carnets / laissez passer, that kind of thing) for each country you'll pass through. Check out beforehand what "should" happen when you turn up at the first EU border country with a Mongolian registered bike. If there's going to a problem with any if this is there a way round it? And of course, a passport. 2. There's usually quite a bit of prep work that would go into getting a bike ready for a trip like this - at the very least you'd need to consider stuff like tyres, chain, sprockets, brake pads, oil + filter, air filter and how are you going to keep your luggage on. The people you'll be buying the bike from may be world class mechanics and keep every one of their bikes in perfect fully maintained condition but the odds are against it. They're more likely to be good for a couple of days round where they're based, with all of the above list at least partly worn. Without experience you may have problems in judging how far something like a tyre will get you - and when you're 2500km away the mechanic's assurance of "plenty of life in that" will ring a little hollow. Are there any problems specific to those bikes to check out (others here will know) 3. Don't just set your GPS to "West" and head off. Spend a few days riding round locally getting to know the bike - preferably without luggage. Even the lightest of those bikes is heavy and will be even heavier with your luggage on. Off road is hard - even easy off road is hard. I've seen someone on a trip do 5000km on tarmac without a problem and fall and break their collar bone after 1/2km of dirt. If you're going to have problems do it where someone can come and get you. It's also (if you're useless at it like me) slow. You might roll along easily at 80-90 kph on tarmac and find yourself scared stupid at 30kph on dirt. Consider logistics as well. Are you going at the right time of year - is there a climatic problem - too hot, too cold, is it going to be 3000km of bog or mud because of snow melt? A std XT for example doesn't have a huge fuel range - do you need cans or something to extend it and if so, by how much. How much water are you likely to need to carry? Work out how much you are likely to need and add about 30% for safety. What happens if things do go wrong - is anyone expecting to hear from you? How are you going to contact them? 4. Consider absolutely everything expendable except your health, or failing that, your life. Pushing your riding limits, solo remote exploration, riding at night, rough end of town, unusual cuisine, "spring" water, "friendly" pets, racing the locals and too tired to read the road (all stuff I've (stupidly :( ) done) are all things to experiment with on the next trip. Honestly, this post could be five times this length with stuff to be aware of but a lot of it is just common sense. Sometimes though, when you're faced with unusual circumstances, common sense seems to vanish. In that case default to whatever seems safest. |
Sounds like a great trip! I'm envious!
All bikes listed are good ... I'd list them almost the same as backofbeyond has ... but with the Suzuki DR650 in 1st place. (I own one! :rofl: ) It's lighter weight than a TransAlp and more sophisticated than an XT600. But the XT is more common in EU. The DR is not imported there. The DR is a USA, Canada, Australia bike. I'm amazed a guy in Ulan Batar has such an amazing collection of used bikes! But MOST IMPORTANT ... on all of them is CONDITION. If they are all worn out JUNK, then no point buying any of them. Not sure how you can determine condition before flying out, but it'd be a bummer to get out there and be disappointed. The good news is ALL those bikes have long life and if taken care of can go many tens of thousands of kms. trouble free. My DR650 is now close to 60,000 miles. (90K kms) It's just now started to use a bit of oil and has a bit of piston slap. Time for a minor rebuild. $3000 usd seems fair if the bikes have life left in them and have no major problems. The DR650 is very simple to do basic maintenance on. Parts and support are plentiful, used parts for sale cheap. With a few mods, it's ready for Mongolia. The XT also very well supported. Both great bikes for over land travel, both VERY easy bikes to ride and both light weight enough even for a novice rider. If you're a bit nervous about riding alone, I'd get on the Travelers Seeking Travelers forum here on HUBB and perhaps meet up with a few fellow travelers? Seems hundreds go out to Mongolia every year now. bier http://patricksphotos.smugmug.com/ph...-Rbgkd5N-L.jpg |
Hi Mollydog and Backofbeyond,
Thanks for thinking along! Really appreciate it! 1) paperwork. This is my downfall. I suck at organising and usually just hope for winging it. I will finish my coffee and dive into it! 2) bike prep. The bikes come from an overlanding company and for the AT I know there originating from overlanding selling the bikes to him. This makes it sound like he knows what he is doing. That said, no guarantee. . I will fix things before I leave. Parts that wear can be replaced and I'll bring some spare things. Depending on the bike, I'll get back on that. Also, I'll need a toolkit and such. 3) experience . I have little.l riding experience and in no rush in getting on the road so I'll drive around UB for a while. Getting to know the bike. Might help in riding experience and getting to know the bike. 4) health. I'm a wuss :( so no driving in the dark and such. And again, no rush. Maybe with paperwork forcing you to a border crossing but aside from that.. just take it slow. Mollydog: thanks for chipping in! I do believe the bikes are not the issue. More likely my own experience and organisational skills... :) Ooh, can't wait to get going. But have to wait for the weather to get better! I'll arrive there in spring! (That I did figure out;) ) Maarten Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory. |
I'll chime in, not on experience with the bikes (haven't ridden any of them), but rather on experience as tackling a long journey with very little prior experience.
All the above recommendations are golden, as most of the things you will find on this site. The Horizon Unlimited website is making an adventure, like the one you are about to embark on, accessible to anybody who is willing to research and plan intelligently his journey. The DR and the XT are lighter more off-road capable bikes. They will be a blast on anything but pavement. I used a KLR650 (similar to DR and XT) on a long trip to South America and it was a very good bike for the trip. Sure it was boring as hell on long stretch of pavement, but it was a blast to take off the beaten path, on dirt roads and whatnot. Also and this is the core of my intervention: with limited experience as a rider you want to have a bike that you will be confident to take through the various inevitable road hazard you're going to encounter. You will have to go through rather desolated or poor countries with bad roads, or some weather incident will take a part of the road out, whatever, it will happen and you will want to sit on a steed you feel confident to take into the rough. Just to illustrate my point. In Honduras I was trying to make time to reach Leon and at one point on the road there was a big truck stopped across the road, he was blocking the whole road and on the sides there was steep drops into ditches of luscious wet grass. There was another rider there on a big 1150 GS, waiting to see if things would move. They were not, the truck was there to stay, to me it was no problem, just another challenge to take my bike down some rough stuff, worst cases scenario I drop it, I can pick it up and and keep going and I'll be out. The guy on the big GS didn't wanted to, I offered to help of course, but he was not comfortable taking his bike down there, that's cool and I respect that, but he had to backtrack and go sleep in a little town and come back the next day when the truck was removed. I went through it, like a breeze, and it was fun, I felt like nothing could stop me. That's how I felt on my KLR, I could really take that bike anyhwere, I was confident on it, even early in my trip. I'm not sure I would have felt confident on a much larger and heavier bike like the transalp and the africa twins. Of course you will meet a lot of guys on this site who would take the Transalp and Africa Twins, even those big GSs, in some really rough stuff and manage well, but as an inexperienced rider I think you would be more confident on the DR or the XT and you will be able to tackle more challenges and do more on your trip. Oh and not driving in the dark doesn't make you a wuss, it just makes you smart. There's all sort of hazard on the roads and animals jumping on you that you can hardly avoid during the day, forget it at night. Also for security reasons. Never drive at night, it's the golden rule. Just my 2 cents ;) |
OK, this might be a question that's an open door but hell. If I buy a bike in mongolia it's on Mongolian plates. Do I insure this bike back home regardless of the plates? Or do I insure it locally? can you insure it even as a non-mongolian man? I do like to have insurance :o
Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory. |
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Paperwork I don't know much about for Mongolia. I would start with a Visa and a Passport. I doubt you can legally import your Mongolia bike to Netherlands, but who knows? Insurance? No clue. I'm sure the seller will know the best way to proceed. I doubt that any EU insurance is valid in Mongolia. Locals will know best. As far as riding experience goes ... I would begin riding NOW. Why wait? Rent or buy a 250cc/400cc bike to learn on. Small bikes are best to learn on. I know it's Winter now, but ride when you can. Get some training. By Spring you will have some basic experience which will surly help once in Mongolia. :scooter: In some situations you may have to ride at night ... no matter how good your planning is. Stuff goes wrong, bad luck happens, unexpected delays. Sometimes you MUST ride at night to get to some place safe or meet a friend, make deadline ... or whatever. Avoid when possible, but don't panic if you must do it. In Mongolia I would think night riding is not too big of a deal. Very remote, no traffic outside cities, no? Just go slow. A good headlight helps. I use HID. In super hot weather in Mexico (40C) I've waited until after dark to ride. Then rode ALL NIGHT in the cool night air. 300 miles/10 hours. Not recommended for inexperienced riders ... but it can be done. :mchappy: |
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Don't ignore the paperwork. Nothing will stop you faster than a border guard wanting some form you don't have or a police check for insurance you haven't bought. In general though you'll need to buy insurance for each country you pass through, and usually you'll be able to buy it somewhere near the border. If the plate doesn't make sense to the insurance co they may use the frame no instead. The exception is the EU where buying it at the first border should cover you all the way back. It probably won't be much good as actual insurance (so don't crash or hit something - I can't imagine the problems with a Dutch bloke riding a Mongolian bike with Greek insurance having an accident in Poland) but if fulfils the legal requirements if you're stopped or going through a non Schengen border. That bit should be doable. You should be able to get yourself through each border back to the EU with a bit of thought about visas. What you'll need depends on your route - into Russia and back or some other route? My main worry though would be about vehicle import requirements. If a visa and passport gets you across each border, the equivalent for the bike will be the registration document and some kind of paperwork about import duty. That last bit is vague because it varies. Some countries don't bother about it, some will do something like enter the bike's details in your passport so you can't leave the country without it and others want a formal record and financial guarantees. For those countries you'll need a Carnet. By and large that's going to be a tricky thing for you to arrange (as well as expensive and time consuming (months)) even if it's possible at all. So, check out (there are lists on this site) which countries need a carnet and (my advice) try to avoid them. It may well be that you don't need it, in which case breath a sigh of relief. Bringing the bike back into the EU is going to be slightly tricky as it depends what you're going to do with it once you get home. If you're going to keep it there may be difficulties with re registering it or if you're not there will probably be a time limit after which it needs to be out of the EU. This stuff goes beyond what I know about as I've never done it but there are plenty here who have and hopefully they'll be able to tell you what you need to do. The important bit is what happens at the first EU border you come to. It all sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare and it may well be time consuming to sort out but in reality you need the various bits of paper as much as you need good tyres and enough fuel. |
and...
...depending on your route, visas between Mongolia and Europe can be a challenge. If you're going through the 'Stans, start checking those out now. What passport are you travelling on? Sometimes, the visas need to be applied for in your own country.
But hey, what an adventure :D |
@ Tiffany: wanted to hit Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. but I'm in thailand so if that needs to be done back home I'm stuck.
Will be traveling on my Dutch passport. @ backofbeyond: thank you for the extensive outlay. I emailed to guy selling the bike that for mongolia he can fix me up. That should get me going. Right now I'm just worried about getting the paperwork. I will hit bangkok tomorrow and see if the Russian embassy is any good. If I can at least enter there, I'm almost home. Next border could then be Finland, and from there I feel safe (regarding paperwork). For the Stan's, that's difficult. I'll read more on this forum on what to get and more importantly where to get it! Oh, I do hope I can get this working.. now I'm nervous about all the papers and bureaucracy. . Thanks guys!! Really helpful and much appreciated ! :D Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory. |
To give you guys a short update:
- Mongolia: visum should not be a problem, get it on arrival for 30 days. (Would like this to be 60 days, anyone any tips on this?). - Kazachstan: as a Dutchy I'm allowed free travel for 14 days! So that's good. (Will this enough? Well, it has to be I guess). - Kyrgyzstan: Once more it pays being Dutch; 60 days without a visum :D - Uzbekistan: should be able to get it, but it's to most expensive one (200 £ ). And since I'm far from a high roller, might skip this country. It blows, but you can't spend what you don't have. Not sure on what to do. - Russia: This is where things go south. So far I found you need to get this visum in your home country, where I am not. And Russia is a big country so I have to cross is somewhere... I'll hit the embassy tomorrow and see what they can tell me. But so far, this socks (actually I typed something else but I think autocorrect is telling me something). - What happens when I hit Europe is next on the list but that will be for tomorrow. Also, for a lot of paperwork they speak of 'letter of invite' and of showing travel papers like tickets (date of arrival). How to do this? On the plus side: all countries have an embassy in Bangkok! Thank you all so far, it has been a most productive day. Now kick back with a Chang and Batman on TV. :cool: Blommetje Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory. |
Between sips of Chang and maybe in the commercial breaks of the Batman movie you can think about the answers to these questions (as already suggested by one or 2 people above):
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Chris! I finally got a good feeling about this and here you are with all these questions I can't answer. There good questions though. .. damn.
Some of the bikes up for sale were driving into mongolia by overlanders. others.. I don't know. They are all on Mongolian plates now. They belong to he shop selling them, I assume. If I buy one, it will be put in my name, and that transfer should take a few days but should not be a problem. The bikes were originally also sold in the Netherlands so we have more of them riding around. So the bike should be 'street legal', but you need to get an examination to get dutch plates. This does not come for free off course but is doable. Paying import taxes --> no idea yet. But this goes for the Dutch country, if I want to make this my regular ride. But between the EU border and my house is a whole lot of km. I have honestly NO CLUE on what could/will happen when I hit the eu border.. I'm European. The bike is mine.. I say.. let me go through. But then again.. there a reason I don't get to make the rules. Anyone any ideas on what could happen? Aside from not letting you get in off course! Are there import papers? Batma. .Eh ... Blommetje Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory. |
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Hope to catch you on the road bier Wayne |
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Put up a wanted request here on the HUBB? If the tourist were Dutch then it'd be real easy with papers, assuming you can sort it out in Holland to get the names changed. It's also really easy to sell UK bike to a non-British person (you). Get the paperwork done in the UK and have the new papers (called a V5) in your name (at the seller's address?) posted to Mongolia. Can't comment on the vehicle registration process for other EU countries. So no hassle with EU importation at the Russia/Belarus border with Poland or Finland and probably much cheaper than paying 3000usd for some old dog of a bike with possibly dubious papers. |
Hi Chris,
yes, there is wanted post here. But so far nothing. I saw a Dutch couple offering the Dutch bikes they rode to UB but this guy (from the website) bought them Before I could. I would buy a eu / dutch bike if I can of course! That's much easier. But if there are none for grabs then what? I can't just sit in UB on the highway and wait for a tourist the pass. But perhaps something comes up the coming period, although with winter in mongolia there won't be many travelers. Once more, thanks for thinking along! Really appreciate it. Since I'm both new to bikes and overlanding it's quite a lot to take in. Blommetje Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory. |
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Bangkok is a big city and after over two hours of public transport and a lot of walking up and down the street while asking for directions.. I found this. :(
Day gone, try again tomorrow. All in the game, right! Fortune and Glory, kid. Fortune and Glory. |
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Wayne |
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